Is a composer also a musician?

[Derek]

Say someone learns to compose using software such as Finale, completely intuitively, without any training in theory, or even in performance on a single musical instrument.

Is this person a musician?

[Triton LE 76]

Say someone learns to compose using software such as Finale, completely intuitively, without any training in theory, or even in performance on a single musical instrument.

Is this person a musician?

No. That's a composer with a software..Not a musician
 

[m1469]

Well, I suppose I will start with describing my current thoughts on "musicianship" as how one relates with music, and a "musician" as one who relates with music. I personally would not describe a "musician" as one whom creates music (nor would I describe a composer as such, for that matter).  This is an important distinction, I believe, because in that sense of relating with music, I see everybody as a musician of sorts.  Everybody has some kind of relationship with music whether they are choosing it or not, even ignorance is a type of relationship (and I personally believe it is human nature to be forever ignorant of itself and its endeavors). 

A person who sits down to compose, at whatever stage in the game (and with whatever tools), is learning about their relationship with music whether they are acutely aware of this or not; they are exploring their musicianship. 

Exploring our musicianship, I believe, is most likely our highest possible attainment within the field of music.  What people think of as "formal training", at its best, can only help to focus that musical exploration (or hamper as the case may be) and I do not see training vs intuition as a call of value on, nor summary of, one's musicianship-- relationship with music-- in and of itself. 

So, in short, yes I do think that s/he is a musician.

m1469

[JamesS]

Say someone learns to compose using software such as Finale, completely intuitively, without any training in theory, or even in performance on a single musical instrument.

Is this person a musician?

It would depend on what the music produced was like, whether it made sense or was effective or not. Speaking in general I think that composers are more musicians than anyone. In many respects composers have a lot more to do with music than performers. Performers are the means through which the music is heard whereas it is the composer that creates the music in the first place. Therefore the music itself has alot more to do with the composer than the performer as it has come from somewhere within the composer.

J

[pianoguy]

Thanks, JamesS. I think that pretty much sums it up. Also, being a composer and pianist myself, I think that anyone who can compose music rationally has the potential to learn a musical instrument. A true composer is in harmony with music enough to pick up an instrument and play it with at least some intelligence.

[Daevren]

Of course.

But both not learning an instrument and not knowing theory limit that person alot. But only translating dots on paper into finger movements doesn't have anything to do with music. The moment a person starts to make musical judgement and desicions that person becomes a musician.

[Etude]

Think of all the composers through history that didn't have any music programs - they had to do all the composing in their heads.  Thats how I write.  I think using Finale or other software for composing (in the actual process of the composition) is (in a way) cheating.

[gkatele]

Think of all the composers through history that didn't have any music programs - they had to do all the composing in their heads.

If I recall correctly, Berlioz never mastered an instrument. We all know that Bach was the master of the organ and harpsichord, Beethoven's skills in improvising on the piano were legendary, and Mozart knew the piano, violin and viola well. Berlioz, on the other hand was accomplished at nothing. (sorta like me!)

Then there's the corollary question:
If you're a good musician, is it easier to be a good composer?
Liszt fans will agree.
Liszt detractors will say exactly the opposite!


George

[Daevren]

Cheating in making art? Huh?

[gorbee natcase]

Yes but is a composer who produces bad music, still a composer.

[Nightscape]

Think of all the composers through history that didn't have any music programs - they had to do all the composing in their heads.  Thats how I write.  I think using Finale or other software for composing (in the actual process of the composition) is (in a way) cheating.

Conservative logic at work again....

I see music notation programs like Finale as a means to ease a burden long associated with composing.  The drudgery of notating by hand, and also copying out parts (ugh!!!) has little to do with composing music and more to do with time-consuming busy work - time that could be better spent actually composing music!

Besides, Finale doesn't compose music for you, it just makes writing the music you think of in your head down a thousand times simpler.

But if you really want to be like the old masters, you'll need to throw out that pen or pencil and pick up a quill and a bottle of ink.  Don't forget to write by candlelight too!

[pianoguy]

Yes but is a composer who produces bad music, still a composer.

What is "bad music?" Music is just music. It's up to the person listening to decide whether it's "good music" or "bad music" to them. Anyone who composes any music at all is a composer. That's the definition of the word itself.

As for Finale and all the other great music notation software out there, imagine what all the great genius composers would have done if they'd had programs like this at their disposal. We'd have a thousand times as much music around to play/listen to.

[pianonut]

20th century composer's have a heavy burden to carry if their music does not have much of a melody- in that people will not remember their music (melodically speaking) - but in the repetition of their music it will be part of repertoire based on the formulation of their theories and how well audiences accept the tonalities (or lack of them).  some 20-21st century composer's i find very tasteful, and others downright annoying.

there's some composer who writes brazilian dance music that has a similar feel to it as a sort of rumba/ rag-time/sousa march.  heard it for the first time on npr the other day.  can't remember the composers name, but i think he was brazilian.  anyway, it was cool. 

[will]

According to dictionary.com: Musician - One who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music.
My opinion: Yes.