Going against the norm

[BoliverAllmon]

How often do you go against the norm when performing? How is it looked upon? Do you ever get punished (bad critics or somethign) for being an artist? What are your stories?

boliver

[thracozaag]

 "Jesus Christ!  Doesn't this kid play anything NORMAL!?!?"--overhead by me on stage while playing a concert in Paul Hall (Juilliard)

koji (STSD)

[quantum]

Silence..................

Sometimes occurs after one of my insane improvisations.  See Audition forum for an example recording. 

I still don't know if people like the stuff or not. 

[BoliverAllmon]

"Jesus Christ!  Doesn't this kid play anything NORMAL!?!?"--overhead by me on stage while playing a concert in Paul Hall (Juilliard)

koji (STSD)

geez, during the concert?

[thracozaag]

geez, during the concert?

  Yes, said in that elderly stage whisper which somehow carries more than shouting.

koji (STSD)

[i_m_robot]

let self tell you a secret

it's not a whisper

[Kassaa]

haha, what were you playing koji?

Niw, I once played Chopwaltz Op. 18 on a extremely heavy grand piano, so my repeating notes were crap, and in the intermission, I heard some people say: "that chopin waltz was a bit too fast".

[paris]

when i was younger we had exams and i played bach.

after my performance one teacher said that I played bach like i was playing chopin    ugh...

[BoliverAllmon]

when i was younger we had exams and i played bach.

after my performance one teacher said that I played bach like i was playing chopin    ugh...

I was told I play bach like beethoven and haydn like crap. I was auditioning with a Haydn sonata once. The jurors complained back and forth while I was playing. Needless to say I hardly got crap for scholarships.

boliver

[thracozaag]

haha, what were you playing koji?

  It was, admittedly a rather long and difficult program, but then again, the doctoral recitals at Juilliard are required to be difficult and somewhat original.  I recall doing the Copland Sonata, Scriabin 4th and 7th sonatas, some Soler, and some other weird things.

koji (STSD)

[BoliverAllmon]

  It was, admittedly a rather long and difficult program, but then again, the doctoral recitals at Juilliard are required to be difficult and somewhat original.  I recall doing the Copland Sonata, Scriabin 4th and 7th sonatas, some Soler, and some other weird things.

koji (STSD)

did you get your doctorate yet? If I remember correctly you were suppose to graduate soon.

[thracozaag]

did you get your doctorate yet? If I remember correctly you were suppose to graduate soon.

  Yup; ceremony was last Friday.

"dr" Attwood

[jlh]

  Yup; ceremony was last Friday.

"dr" Attwood

Congrats!  Angeletti would be proud!

Me??  I've got probably another 8 years for that title...

[BoliverAllmon]

  Yup; ceremony was last Friday.

"dr" Attwood

congrats all around.

[ahmedito]

Some months ago I played Liszt Hungarian 12th... right in the middle, before the horrible trills in the high register I hit completely the wrong chord. My teacher kept asking me to really play it freely, completely changing the rythm and doing huge rubatos... I was so fed up, after a rehearsal where apparently it wasnt enough... that when I hit that chord wrong, I just resolved it into I dont know what, did some huge arppegio all the way up to the piano, and started improvising on the themes, everything in octaves and really loud up and down, some corny sequences, the theme in a very mushy cantabile (like 3 extra minutes.... then I went into the trills and continued the piece as if nothing happened.) I heard one of those whispers Koji mentioned:

"What the hell is he doing?"

...


My teacher loved it, by the way
This summer when I get back home and have a computer of my own, Im definately putting some of my favorite stuff on the audition room.

[ted]

 I am neither professional nor performer so the social consequences of doing this do not concern me. I feel that anyone working sincerely in any artistic endeavour must constantly push the boundaries of what is "normal". How else are we going to discover anything ? If something new works, fine, if it doesn't, fine too, we've learned something and we'll try again. I see even less point in worrying about what other people consider normal in music. Just do whatever you want to do. Rules are for fools.

Koji:

Congratulations on your wonderful achievement. I hope that this helps put your musical future on a secure basis and gives you more freedom to play as you wish.

[Goldberg]

Fernandito:  haha!

I've done a similar thing, but nowhere near as crazy! It was...hmmmm...let me think. I believe it was during a Chopin nocturne. Yes, that's right, op. 55 no. 1, a piece that I was never entirely sympathetic to, and which I wasn't very interested in learning at first, but it was actually the first piece my last teacher assigned me and I wanted to give him a good impression. At the end there is that descending deal with both hands playing two separate melodies (though it is by no means complicated counterpoint or anything) with rather awkward fingerings, and that section is followed by a long arpeggio sequence that I never really took the time to  *learn*. Well, as might well be overwhelmingly obvious I more or less made both things up as I went, but at the same time the end result was pretty similar to what was actually written...

The most I've "screwed around" was in the HR6 when I performed it at my school to musically illiterate people. I skipped that C-sharp major transition section because I couldn't play it, I changed all of the cadenzas at will and on the spot, wrote in at least two of my own (short) cadenzas, and changed the dynamics moderately here or there. It was partially modeled after one of Cziffra's recordings...not quite as successful though!

But to put it more generally for the topic, I advocate changing scores around on the spot for exciting spontaniety, but it depends on the music. I have no problem messing around with the HR6 for instance, but would never touch a note of a Chopin Ballade, or indeed a "better" Liszt piece. And as for playing unique or obscure pieces, I am also quite interested in it but haven't had much chance to play such a piece lately, and probably won't for a while unless I can whip up a few Godowsky etudes or Alkan pieces. I think the best I can do is Ornstein's "9 Miniatures" which I hope to learn and perform over the summer, or perhaps Alkan's 3 Romantic Andantes.

One thing that has more appeal, though, is unknown Baroque, pre-Baroque, or Classical music--and for the latter I consider Haydn to be unknown, though there are hundreds of better examples. I'd like to play pieces like Gould used to play, from Gibbons and Byrd and so on, and even some pieces by earlier salon pianists like Hummel, Kalkbrenner, and Moscheles, whose works may not be upper-class but are certainly worth it for creating that kind of historical atmosphere!

[rob47]

what you need to do, re: going against the norm, is make your performances the handbook for what the norm is, thus defining in your going against-edness what the new norm is.

*shut up rob.*

[teresa_b]

Hi all,

This doesn't exactly qualify as going against the norm in any artistic sense, but at age 15 I was playing in a student recital and I stopped right in the middle of Bach and said (unfortunately, audibly enough to hear)  "s--t."   

It cost me my conert career.  (OK, not really.)  But my sister, who heard the blasphemy, has not let me forget it to this day.

All the best, Teresa

P.S.  KUDOS to you,  Koji.

[teresa_b]

Oops, I meant "concert" career.   My conert career is doing fine. 

Teresa

[BoliverAllmon]

Hi all,

This doesn't exactly qualify as going against the norm in any artistic sense, but at age 15 I was playing in a student recital and I stopped right in the middle of Bach and said (unfortunately, audibly enough to hear)  "s--t."   

It cost me my conert career.  (OK, not really.)  But my sister, who heard the blasphemy, has not let me forget it to this day.

All the best, Teresa

P.S.  KUDOS to you,  Koji.

reminds me of my girlfriend. She was playing some piece for recital. she was doing real well until the end. She completely blanked on the last chord. She tried a couple that were obviously wrong, then proceeded to stand-up and say I am sorry and ran off stage.

boliver

[BoliverAllmon]

Oops, I meant "concert" career.   My conert career is doing fine. 

Teresa

I read over your post a couple of times and didn't even notice that. LOL.

[ludwig]

  Yup; ceremony was last Friday.

"dr" Attwood

oh Wow, congrats Thracozaag, I'm not sure about the PHD programs in US, can you enlighten me? What kind of things are there? Or do you have to write a thesis and research? Can you do a purely performance one??



Anyways, on topic, I often do stupid things when I was young and played wrong notes in concerts... like turn to the audience and smile or chuckle, and continue...hehe One time I completely had a blank, so improvised for like 4 bars before returning to the original piece...hehe

[thracozaag]

oh Wow, congrats Thracozaag, I'm not sure about the PHD programs in US, can you enlighten me? What kind of things are there? Or do you have to write a thesis and research? Can you do a purely performance one??

  Technically, it's not a Phd, because it's a performance degree (you can get a Phd in musicology, though) and therefore is termed a Doctorate in Musical Arts (DMA).  The program at Juilliard consisted of classwork, 3 solo recitals, 1 lecture recital, written and oral comprehensives, and a thesis. 

koji (STSD)

[ludwig]

Thanks Thracozaag.... I'm just curious to know what it invovles..Is the DMA a 3 year degree? And the PHDs in the US, can it be done through music education too? Or just musicology? (Sorry about the questions, this is probably what I'll be doing next year)....thanks in advance for any info (promise last off-topic post)

[thracozaag]

Thanks Thracozaag.... I'm just curious to know what it invovles..Is the DMA a 3 year degree? And the PHDs in the US, can it be done through music education too? Or just musicology? (Sorry about the questions, this is probably what I'll be doing next year)....thanks in advance for any info (promise last off-topic post)

  If you're psycho, you could probably do it in 3 years, but generally people take at least 4 to do it.  I believe the phd's in US CAN be done through music education as well, but don't hold me to it.

koji (STSD)

[Corsair]

Fernandito:  haha!

I've done a similar thing, but nowhere near as crazy! It was...hmmmm...let me think. I believe it was during a Chopin nocturne. Yes, that's right, op. 55 no. 1, a piece that I was never entirely sympathetic to, and which I wasn't very interested in learning at first, but it was actually the first piece my last teacher assigned me and I wanted to give him a good impression. At the end there is that descending deal with both hands playing two separate melodies (though it is by no means complicated counterpoint or anything) with rather awkward fingerings, and that section is followed by a long arpeggio sequence that I never really took the time to  *learn*. Well, as might well be overwhelmingly obvious I more or less made both things up as I went, but at the same time the end result was pretty similar to what was actually written...

yeah, i hate op. 9 no 2 in particular, it's nothing more than a middle class favourite. last time i played, i did it as an encore and extended the little four-note trill thing at the end (the one that beginner pianists think is some kinda deathtrap) so that it lasted for about 30 seconds, it was intended to be something of a scathing quip at the banality of the piece and this got a few laughs but afterwards i still got people saying "the trill at the end was too long".

[Torp]

I'm all for people going against the norm...I just hate it when people go against the norm just to go against the norm.  Not sure I can explain what I mean by that.  I guess it seems like people often try to be "different" without having any substance to there differences.  In other words, go against the norm to make a statement, just make sure you have a statement to make.  Otherwise, it just seems to come across as trite and shallow.

Jef

PS - Dr. Thracozaag, congratulations on your achievement.

[Mozartian]

I don't understand the prejudice of people against lesser known composers. I mean, really- who cares who wrote it if it's good music?
It's especially infuriating nowadays, when you have all these really famous and popular composers/"musicians" who can't compose/perform worth anything; and then all these composers (who wrote truly beautiful music, music deserving of the name) from the past are completely ignored... ugh. Makes absolutely no sense.

Okay okay, rant over.

[SirSteinway]

I love practicing non-comformity in my music.  During worship services on Sundays I get odd looks from my piano teacher, who is our organist; she is directly across the stage from the piano and she shoots "amused" looks at me all the time.