You guys love JC too much

[pianistimo]

i can't speak for pianowelsh, but for myself, it can be with sensing the 'circle of life.'  you are born, you grow and mature, you start noticing things that are 'constant' vs things that are 'inconsistent.'  whether it is things that affected you positively or negatively that you have had time to think about- or sudden crisis that make you question things all in one day.

all of us have probably had difficult childhoods in one instance or another.  for me, i lost my father at 2 years of age.  this forced me to look elsewhere for a father - and my heavenly Father is probably closer now to me because i often prayed even when i disbelieved.  i never felt unheard, just misunderstood at first.  then, i realized 'we come to God, respectfully and not demandingly.'  as humans, this is hard.  we want God to come to us.  it is almost unheard of in this society to have the respect that God requires.  we are told that we are all equal.  well, we're really never going to be equal to God - but if we are humble 'he will lift us up.'

this is a very hard idea - and why christianity is often thought to deny us our freedom.  actually, with discipline is more freedom.  just like when you take lessons.  you usually do what your teacher suggests - out of respect = and then you see you have more freedom later as they let go of you more and more.  God speaks of rewards.  the rewards don't have naything to do with our deserving them - but have a lot to do with our listening and respecting abilities.  if we are 'soldiers' for Christ, it means that we follow without disbelief and questioning.  that's also a hard idea - and better able to be done when we trust God.  coming to trust God is when we see that even the animals are cared for, and he cares enough to tell us what he has in store for us (the kingdom of God) that 'eye has not seen, nor ear heard.'  just as orgasms seem the limit to pleasure now - he says we will have pleasure forever more.  maybe we'll hear good music, who knows.  but, we know that if he can make sex, he can make something even better.

i ramble too much at night.

[rob47]

Not that I care about this topic, despite starting it, but people need to realize how much Catholicism made the world or at least Western civilization what it is today.

God is Love (which is where were very different to fanatical muslim suicide bombers - you will never find a Christian suicide bomber)

I can't help but not agree with this statement. 

Also this topic is really stupid.

[steve jones]

I must admit, the more I read of these threads, them more I become convinced that most peoples faith is little more than an expression of their needs. 'God' has a lot to offer, but there doesnt appear to be any truth, only myth. Fortunately, truth has never been a requisit of belief, and the human mind has great capacity to warp perception.

I am sincerely glad that many of you gain so much from religion. Who knows, one day maybe life will force me into a corner, and I too will seek refudge in the shadow a mythical overlord.

Funnily enough, as I stated earlier in the thread, I do believe in a higher power. The only evidence I have or need is the simple fact that I exist, along with the rest of the universe! But I dont believe that I need any artifical faith to educate me in such matters. Nobody knows  what is beyond the universe and human comprehension. Imo, its shows an obscene level of arrogance (in the human race I mean) to assume you can decipher gods will, let alone write a book on it!

But then again, people have never been known for their shyness.


Btw, Rob why start a topic that you think is stupid, and then flame it being such? Is 47 your IQ or something?

[hodi]

before i entered this thread, i thought that by JC you mean John Carey... a member of this forum

LOL

[steve jones]

Lol, I thought they were talking about the rapper JC!

[pianowelsh]

Hi guys im back (ding, ding) Ok where to start!? First Steve.  The bible is god' word not mans - that's important to understand also important is that he has given us of the holy spirit to understand (have the word interpretede) to our hearts.  it is clear to conclude from this that God is a self revealing God. Therefore it isnt arrogence to know the will of God - its arrogence to ignore it though because he has set it down in black and white for us.  It's cool that God who is completely 'other' than us has made it so clear for us and wants to communicate with us and is interested in relationship with us... think on that for a bit it WILL blow your mind Thats why respectfully i have to disagree that it is people with 'very clear agendas' who have influenced my mind. Think about it carnally first... People who sell diet books have a very clear agenda each christmas, can they actually make you believe yourself thinner though... No thats why a few months down the line most people are back at stage one. Now this illustration isnt perfect because it is worldly and what we are talking about is spritual.  Suffice to say God has designed us for relationship with him... our sin is a clear barrier there because heis Holy (in fact Holy Holy Holy) and we needed a substitute to make us acceptable - that is Jesus Christ.  Steve when you say you dont understand how you can grasp the revelation of God I see where you are coming from, but really it is difficult to explain but God communicates to your heart and mind directly that He is true that Jesus did come to die for our ungodliness as a substitute and your feel an overwhelming sense of need for salvation (actually you see the reality of your situation before him thats all) which would be crushing but for the news that he did it in Love for us with the intent to save us. Its an incredible thing and you may not get this for a while but that Noone took Jesus life from him but he laid it down - essentially because he wanted to, because he loves us that much - thats the most extreme picture of Love there will ever be.  You see when God shows you this, and im not just talking mentally, the human brain is full of millions of mental concepts which we dont really grasp. But when God figuratively openes the eyes of your heart to the fact that all the above is True, then surrender is totally the only option (its not even really and option - its all you can do).  faith is an expression of worship actually to God - its acknowledging God for who he is and responding to him in the light of it.  Yes it is about need too, as humans there is never a single moment in our lives that we dont need God (sorry to burst anyones bubbles) The air we breath (we need God to provide), The planet we live on is held in its place by (yes God) I could go on. Faith requires Truth as a basis, faith in a lie is deception. Jesus said I am the way the truth and the Life - noone comes to the father except through me.  thats pretty powerful which is why rob47 this thread is VERY important, vital in fact (ps- you didnt really explain why you disagreed)
To address the people control issue again (because it obviously bugs some people) I have to say again That a Christian is one who has been made alive by the Spirit of God.. i dont know if yu guys are all really conversant with scripture (im not been sarky - i really dont) but if your read the fruits of the Holy spirit, Love joy peace etc etc you will see that waht happened during the inquisition and in modern day Ireland is not in line with the actions of God's people.  he says in his word 'by their fruits you shall know them' ... This may offend some people but they are God's words not mine! You cannot Love God and hate your brother (Jesus taught this)... You must also grasp the very important concept that not everyone who says they are 'Christian' is.  There are many people who lie to make themselves look good. Jesus said their will be many in that last day that will cry out Lord Lord , didnt we do this and that in your name and he will say 'depart form me i never knew you' (knew you refers to intimate Love relationship with God - of course God knows who they are  - he knows every hair on their heads).  Now what im not saying is that there are no Catholic Christians or for that matter Protestant Christians.... here me right.  Christians are ones who are 'born again' by the Holy spirit of God and you will know them precisely because they dont act in malice and hatred (Romans 3 i believe) but they display Godly characteristics.  There is a FUNDAMENTAL difference between outward form/religion and inward change by the spirit of God CHRISTIANITY.  So with respect there will be no catholics in heaven, protestants either, baptists, methodists, presbeteryians etc etc... but the place will be packed out with multitudes who are 'real' children of the living God - who worship him in spirit and in Truth. 

I must go and do practice now - sorry (mull it over and get back to me)

[pianistimo]

dear stevejones,

first you mention that you think truth is missing, and then say you always believed in a higher power because you exist.  maybe you have more faith than you realize and it's just hidden.  where can we look for truth besides God's word?  it was inspired by Him.  people think only God can speak for himself, but all down through the ages people were inspired by the Holy Spirit to write down what we have in the bible today.  how would it feel if God didn't care about us and never inspired the bible.  we would REALLY wonder, and be very lost.  noone has an excuse today.  the bible is widely available but not always read carefully, even by me and other christians.  that is why we study the words to make sure we understand what it is saying.

when you read 'and it was evening and morning, the first day' or something like that - you know it's talking about one 24 hour day.  then, you can have 1000 other people say the opposite and stick to your guns.  it's deduction.  God is really demanding when you think about it.  he demands excellence and nothing less.  he doesn't care if you're lazy  (well, He does - but he doesn't force you to read carefully).  our own misreading and misrepresentations only fall backwards like jericho's walls.  someday every truth will come to light.  God is so powerful that he can do anything He wants.  create so much in one day.  can you imagine how much he's done from that one week until today?  i think he's been preparing a place for us (as He says) and that we will be shocked at how different it is from the physical universe we know.

[pianistimo]

ps i personally believe the first verses in genesis give credence to your idea of the earth being older than the generations of the bible.  perhaps when God's spirit hovered over the water, it was flooded at that time (God's light melted a possible ice age?)  anyway, i agree about the possibility of the earth being beyond  6000 years old. 

[steve jones]

"You must also grasp the very important concept that not everyone who says they are 'Christian' is.  There are many people who lie to make themselves look good."

Very wise words Pianowelsh. And a great post. One I shall probably have to read several times before composing a worthy response.


Another great post! You're so right about your intial point - I dont lack faith god at all. But faith in God, and preconceived religion appear very different things to me. The various recognised faiths teach their particular interpretation - this is part I dont like. Im happy in my faith in God, I dont need to be 'told' how to express this, particular by people (the Church) who would use said faith to manipulate my thoughts and actions.

I think the real issue is, I draw a much thicker line between God and man. I dont believe people can communicate with god, I dont believe they can call the various holy texts 'the word of god' - this to me is all artifical. To me, nature is devine, and to an extent science!

[rob47]

Btw, Rob why start a topic that you think is stupid, and then flame it being such? Is 47 your IQ or something?

I don't remember actually.

"You must also grasp the very important concept that not everyone who says they are 'Christian' is.  There are many people who lie to make themselves look good."

This is quite the statement.  I'm Catholic, and although I  have not gone to church since last Christmas, (I was too hungover to attend Easter mass,)I don't really bother telling people my faith to 'make myself look good.'  You suggest by that statement that being Christian makes you look good, but to whom are these liars trying to make themselves look good?  Other christians they are trying to have sex with?  The parents of the women they are trying to marry? I don't understand, but maybe it's because, being Catholic, I am a Christian misled. 

[steve jones]

I think she is refering to the many 'false' Christians. You know who I mean, Im certain - people who claim to follow the lord, yet in practice do quite the opposite. They are often hateful people, who use their religion as a moralistic smoke screen. Iv found to many of these people in my time, far more than genuine Christians who actually live the life.

I mean, if you re truely a Christian, then you would life a Christian life would you not?

[Siberian Husky]

Btw, Rob why start a topic that you think is stupid, and then flame it being such? Is 47 your IQ or something?

lol...steve you must be new or something

[timothy42b]

I think she is refering to the many 'false' Christians. You know who I mean, Im certain - people who claim to follow the lord, yet in practice do quite the opposite. They are often hateful people, who use their religion as a moralistic smoke screen. Iv found to many of these people in my time, far more than genuine Christians who actually live the life.

I mean, if you re truely a Christian, then you would life a Christian life would you not?

No, that is not what most people mean by a false Christian.

A false Christian is anyone who states that they believe, but has some item of doctrine interpretation that differs from your denomination's interpretation. 

For example, to a Southern Baptist a Catholic would normally be considered a false Christian, regardless of how devout their belief or responsible their actions.

To a Young Earth Creationist, an Episcopalian must be considered a false Christian because they don't insist on a literal interpretation of Genesis.

Etc., etc. 

Personally, if anyone tells me they are Christian, I accept it.  And I'm sure if I quizzed them long enough about their beliefs, I'd find some heretical error deep down.  Then I'd have to smite them.  But I'd still consider them a Christian.