to pedal or not?

[BoliverAllmon]

I read somewhere (it may have been here) that one should learn a piece without pedal first. then once the piece is pretty well under the fingers then add the pedal work. Is this true? what do you think?

[rhapsody in orange]

Well I guess that's pretty much the case for me. When I'm still learning the notes I'd do it without the pedal. With one less thing to care about I can focus on getting the notes and the movements right. When that's settled, I'd then add in the pedal to produce the tone which I want. Works faster that way for me rather than trying to do everything all at one go, unless the pedalling is very straightforward/simple.

[TheHammer]

I agree. Pedalling seems to be the most overlooked and simplified aspect of piano technique. Although it's one of the hardest IMO.
If you learn a piece with using the pedal, you will have to concentrate on the notes, not on the pedal. By this lack of concentration, your pedalling will become nearly completly directed by your feeling (or you are a super-virtuoso sight-reader. But then you wouldn't post such a question). This "automatic pedalling" seems to be widespread (even some professional pianists I have seen seem not to heed too much to their pedals). And of course you should be somewhat free when modifying your sound when playing - but this requires long and thoughtful experimenting at the piano. And experiments on one aspect can only work if you do them seperatly from any other technique concern. Pedalling is such a delicate matter, it is not possible to learn it by the way of learning a piece, then you will ingraine false pedalling on passages where they don't fit and you will have a hard time getting rid of them.

[lostinidlewonder]

The pedal acts as the breath of the piano, to neglect it early on will only give you problems later on.

The pedal effects the sound of what you play. When practicing you don't only care if the fingers are right but also equally care about the sound you are producing.

If you initially neglect pedal with pieces that require pedalling you will never produce the right sound while you are practicing.  Only when you leave it to later do you have to go back and start listening all over again to what you are playing when you add the pedal, it is a waste of time!

Do it straight away, that goes for dynamics and all expression marked. If you leave it to later you will not do it or do a rushed job of it.

[6ft 4]

but u can hide ur mistakes with the pedal so easily that learning a piece technically with all the notes held down when needed without using the pedal means u will, in the long run, play the piece better after adding the pedal.

[lostinidlewonder]

What is the point for example of neglecting the pedal if you were learning Debussy's Sunken Cathedral for instance Prelude Bk1no10. How utterly pointless it would be to learn or even practice it without the pedal! Shift over to Bach and you can neglect the pedal all day without any problems, but this can't be done for everyone.

[BoliverAllmon]

What is the point for example of neglecting the pedal if you were learning Debussy's Sunken Cathedral for instance Prelude Bk1no10. How utterly pointless it would be to learn or even practice it without the pedal! Shift over to Bach and you can neglect the pedal all day without any problems, but this can't be done for everyone.

I am talking say learn a couple measures HS then HT then add pedal. Not the entire piece.

[bearzinthehood]

Hmm, although, practicing with pedal really doesn't help with evenness.  Also, depressing the damper pedal lowers the action of the keys so it gives your fingers a boost in fast passages that you could gain more from technically if you didn't use the pedal.

I think if you're in the stages of aquiring the technique required to play a passage then I don't think using the pedal is a good idea.  Just my 2 cents.

[nomis]

I read somewhere (it may have been here) that one should learn a piece without pedal first. then once the piece is pretty well under the fingers then add the pedal work. Is this true? what do you think?

No. I will learn a section without pedal first, then I will add the pedal.

You may have gotten that info from CC Chang, but I remember him saying that you should learn without pedal first then add it in later, but I don't recall him saying for the whole piece. His reasons are simple - the weight of the keys is lighter when the pedal is depressed. If you only play Schumann, it's probably OK, but if you play pieces that require sparser pedaling or hardly any pedal at all, it becomes much harder to play because the action will be heavier.

[lostinidlewonder]

I feel it is dangerous to say I will do everything one way. So to say I will do all music I learn without pedal first then add it later might be ok in many instances, but could be devistating the next.

If you learn leggierissimo sections in Chopin concertos for instance, you will never achieve the quality of the sound if you dont use the pedal, and you willl never be revealed the touch required if you don't practice it with the pedal straight away. I guess we have to use our brains as to when we can neglect the pedal or not, but I generally would use it all the time, treat it as part of what you have to do, not something like the icing that needs to be put on later on, it must be integreated with everything.