Environmental issues.. are you concerned ?

[m1469]

Just wondering where people's thoughts are on this.  Please feel free to also post your thoughts in gerenal regarding this issue(s).


Thanks,

m1469

[Siberian Husky]

stupid humans

[pianonut]

i voted other, just to be different.  i guess it's because i'm probably a wanna-be environmentalist.  i tried cloth diapers with my son (born in july and made it to december).  then, decided i'd had it.  i would no longer try to be a perfect environmentalist - and i'd settle for what i could sanely handle.  cloth works better as a combo of cloth inside (plastic cover outside) velcro - and washable by yourself.  i found out later about diaper liners (and could have used these inside the ones just mentioned.  diaper service gets expensive.

ok.  here's another sad fact about me.  i buy a bag of birdseed and put some of it out.  they eat it within a week - considering the squirrels that come by to nibble and then forget to refill it.  suddenly i remember wild squalking that happened the week before and put two and two together.  they ran out of birdseed! 

then, there's housecleaning.  i do it less often than other people just so i can say i use less cleaners, detergent, etc.  also, i do very large load of laundry (except on the days that i need something really quick and wash it alone accidentally with a full load of water)   excepting mistakes that are truly not intentional - i am an environmentalist in every way except water conservation.  i think even on that, i'm ok.  say if i fill the tub almost full, i use the water to bath my three year old and myself and rinse my hair - and usually don't wash hair everyday.

my mother, a true environmentalist, was trying to think of ways to get bathtub water outside to water her flowers.  i don't know if she ever siphoned it out the window or not.  she did first clue me in on those natural cleaning products.  too bad they are so expensive at trader joes.  guess you can make your own if you know how.  i once tried making a cleaning polish.  it took too long and i didn't like the results.

what i am most proud of is that my husband and i once saved a deer.  we were bicycling and saw a deer upside down on a wire fence with foot tangled.  everytime we got near, the deer squirmed, so it was tricky.  i tried to calm the deer and summon all my courage to get her leg out.  with the help of a motorist that stopped on the other side of the fence (near highway) we untwisted the wire and the deer escaped with a small wire cut to her ankle.

also, just the other day, i narrowly missed a squirrel by slowing down.  of course, the motorist behind me was sort of wondering until the squirrel made it to the other side.  my husband tells me he does this for gaggles of geese which endears me to him.

[pianonut]

one last wanna-be item... i don't use weed killer on the lawn, refuse to use pesticies of any form (ant/roach/bee killer) unless absolutely necessary on a nest.  we had one in our mailbox last year due to planting flowers around it.  now, in retrospect, i wouldn't plant flowers near a mailbox, just to end up killing bees.

i suppose the next step would logically be to take a plastic bag with me on my bicycle trips and pick up plastic bottles and cans.  with a backpack, it's probably no big deal.

[Siberian Husky]

Alright...

before ANYONE devcides to vote for "i dont care"...

literally hundreds of species both plant and animal are falling victim to extinction because of human encroachment..we take take and continue taking...

we concider only ourself..self preservation is a survival instinct that stemmed into a greedy attribute in us human beings. As environmentally friendly as we want to be. day by day each one of us contribues to the mass hysteria that puts innocent species in jeapordy. As much as we want to donate, recycle, buy electric powered cars, each second of everyday, we continue to feed the opression that we have bestowed upon the innocent.

with only a few national parks established, and only a percentage of those whom keep secure tabs on wildlife preservation, the numbers continue to dwindle. Everyone is so cought up on "save the whales" "save the siberian tigers" or mountain lions mexican grey wolves etc etc...fascinating creatures..but as contrubting as we may be...we are so embarrassingly selective as to whom we "want to save"...when we should be taking responsibility for the entire earth and its inhabitants. We claim this world as ours yet we treat it like garbage. We exploit animals, plants, land, and genetically mutate to feed our advantageous craving for more more more

it is very easy for one to clear their concience by calling a refuge and donating spare money while sitting in the comfort of their own living room..fully equipts and build off exploitation whether they acknowledge it or not..

its bad enough that the species of this earth are faced with the daily battle of survival, we take our situation for granted as we have everything we need to survive, to thrive galore...these species also have to worry about man..encroachment..deforestation..poaching and blak market animal trading will manifest into an earth of horrible proportions...

a south american scarlet baby macaw parot is worth twice as much as cocain by the pound...several tigers and lions are kept cative as "pets"..declawed..then sold to breeders to cross both species for a pricey "exotic" potential pet..it sickens me on how we would seriously not give a second look at the life of a creature because our hunger for the last dollar clouds every morsal of reasoning...

God gave us the capacity for intuition...we have the ability to reason..thus allowing to govern our emotion..our emotions which still make us half animal. Yet day by day, doesnt matter how sophistocated one may..how capable..how important or how philosophical..we fall prey to our emotions due to a weak founded sense of reason...we are still the barbaric animals..doesnt matter how advanced we are...how much we have developed intellectually...

thousands of cats and dogs are put to sleep every year because of careless owners who got "tired" of their pet..thousands of pets are given as gifts..trophies..as beautiful as it may be..this is a blinded act of exploitation..we do not acknowledge animals as LIVES..we simply see them as attractions..sources for education and entertainment...our respect for animals grows dimmer by the day because of our "superiority" to them...but how superior is man to the average dog?..to the cat?..the lizard?..amphibian or fish?..protozoa or even a redwood?...seriously...man can differentiate between right and wrong..and this is what makes him superior..but on the contrary...we are INFERIOR..because we can easily differenetiate between the two yet we never fail to take easy routes of ungoodness at the expense of others...

there is more reform needed in this earth..more than all the organizations combines..more than all the good hearts put together...i seriously believe God is in the heavens shaking his head in utter disbelief due to our negligence..and how disgusting we are...we have dismembered an earth...we are currently in the process of putting ourselves in a situation in which even computers couldnt dig ourselves out of...we continue to invest our efforts into seemingly good fortunes..while being ignorant to the fact..that the elements that need us the most are the ones that have been with us from the very begining...the animals..the plants..the earth..our airs oceans and environments..

military training equipment kills specific species of whales because it interfiers with migrating routes..but no one cares enough to act upon the situation...feeling sorry or having sympathy for our creatures is just as bad as not caring at all..we can Love and Celebrate our diverse planet all we like..but this does nothing to aid our fellow inhabitants of the pre-determined fate we have manifested for them...

deforestation is occuring as we speak...these are not only trees cut down..these are homes lost..territory lost...this emphasizes stres within species parties by reenforcing the game of competition...yet all we care about...is the 5,000,000 homes we need to build in the hills...another act of encroachment...and people wonder why animals live in our homes?...why spiders "invade" our bathrooms and atticks?...why mosquitos and ant colonies claim our homes as theirs?..because they are returning the favor...

we live in an age where people HUNT OF FULL STOMACHS...we aesthetically prize the carcass of an innocent being..sporting is not a game..because only one side of the team thinks they are in a game..the animals dont understand the concept...yet how manly we are to gather and collect INDIVIDUALS..LIVES..to trophy them on our walls..for the sake of reputation..or not even that,,recreation!...

how very cliche i would be to say "how woudl you feel if someone were shooting you down with a gun and you had no opportunity to fend for yourself"..how tree hugger am i sounding?..exactly..and this is the same ignorance that feeds our stupidity...

hunting..pit bull fighting..exotic pet trade...black market animal economy...its all about the money..capital gain...this is what we represent?..the most powerful species..the IDEAL species..the pinnacle of life?...money driven bastards?..seriously...

whether people care or not..we will continue to contribute..whether this thread gets acknowledged greatly..mearly..or none at all..whether it gets taken seriously or not..whether i am being taken seriously or not..we will day by day continue to deface our planet earth..continue to eradicate insect species before we have discovered them for ourselves..we will continue to encroach on wildlife homes and perimiter them and dictate where they are supposed to be contained...mother nature is ready to give up...and believe me..we as a species are not ready to take on the roll of sustaining the fragile equilibrium that is earth...

it just....embarassing

[pianonut]

totally agree.  interesting that you brought up so many things that are supposedly being 'worked on.'  but, as you say, everyone has to participate and every creature/plant/environment needs constant sustaining and taking care of.  sometimes it's a matter of learning how.  by watching someone else do it, and learning that you don't have to mass produce things (mutated species of plants, extra milking cows, extra egg producing chickens).  that you can be content with less. 

i don't always eat three meals a day. is this conserving?

seriously, using less of everything would help the planet.  and, why don't grocery stores quit asking paper or plastic and just give out paper (except on a rainy day).  what if they handcuffed people who said plastic.  (the plastic police).

[tds]

those who vote " i dont care" will be eaten alive a husky!

[Teddybear]

When it comes to problems like this many people seem to prefer talking over doing something. In addition, they demand a solution that solves everything at once. I think it's too much to ask. I don't feel very confident about the future. It's a sad fact that there are simply too many people on the Earth and that we consume too much. There's not much I can do to change this, but I try to pay attention to some of the biggest choices: what I eat and how I travel.

I've been a vegetarian for over 10 years. I don't have issues with meat as such, I don't think it's ethically wrong or anything. It's just that it's more ecological and economical (and, I believe, better for your health) not to eat meat. I use public transportation (even though it's bloody expensive here), walk and ride a bike. I would not buy a car. If I buy something, I try to buy something that does not come from far away.

It's a sad world. Many people are dependent on what and how much other people buy. Somehow we've got into this illusion that everyone needs their own copy of everything. I wonder if this is the price of not sharing? I don't think it's fair to blame ordinary people for greed. I'd blame large enterprises for spreading their filth all around us. I don't believe there's anything wrong with 'the little extra something', be it chocolate or perfume or anything. What's wrong is that some guys, with a billion dollars on their bank account already, try to force us to fill our lives with those little extra products, while there are bigger things on which we should concentrate in our lives. How frustrating it is to see commercials on TV that go on and on about some stupid cheese or moisturizing lotion when they should advertise something like "say nice things to your friends" or "remember to take enough exercise".

I don't think it's wise to take that doomsday tone. It only sets the aim so high that normal people feel discouraged and inadequate and probably end up doing nothing at all. I'm very happy to see that the example I've set has encouraged people I know to take an interest in vegetarian food. I hope you all can experience something like that too.

Cheers and God unbless mass production,

T

[Torp]

Husky,

Your passion runs deep.  Total respect for everything you've said.


I find that at 40 much of my youthful idealism has been replaced with ever-growing amounts of middle-aged cynicism.  The current status of the world and its economic structure is based on continuous growth and continuous, expanding consumption.  We have been tought that by consuming more our happiness will be fulfilled.

I once read a concept somewhere that has always struck me.  It basically said that the key to happiness is NOT having all that you want, but rather WANTING all that you have.  Since reading that concept I can honestly say that my life has been a struggle between living that ideal vs. living the American Way, i.e. keeping up with the Joneses.

I try and live by the motto reduce, recycle, reuse.  I'm not always successful.  Yes, I do donate $ to "causes", I participate in community gardens, I dispose of oil properly, write letters to my congressmen, ride my bicycle to work, eat mostly vegetarian and organic, yadda, yadda, yadda.  It never seems to be enough.

OK, now that I'm thoroughly depressed, I'll get back to work now.

Jef

Edit - This post was written before Teddybear's but Teddybear beat me to the post.  So, my comment about yadda, yadda, yadda was not directed at Teddybear but rather at my own feelings of futility regarding my choices and behavior.  Just wanted to make that clear because I thought there could be some inadvertent assumptions made otherwise...Jef

[Siberian Husky]

My passion runs deep but unfortunately its driven by a negative and somewhat pessimistic theory of mind. No im not being hypocritical and running my mouth as i let issues pass by me.

I volunteer at pet shelters and humane societies..donate to two different organiztions on a scheduled monthly basis, recycle, and participate in growing awareness in our diversity crisis and other environmental issues.

But you see, we cant win. in reality, we can only win inside, we can only win by our good acts, our good disposition fulfilling us ina  virtuous way. Even if we are as whole hearted as we can be, and dont use these acts as "means," but rather as "ends." In other words, even if we perform these acts for the sake of goodness itself, ano not recognition, nor to feel good about ones self, but simply just to achieve that absolute goodness. In all senserity...this does not contribute significantly to the large body of problem.

My pessimistic point of view turns many people off, simply because it truly is overwhelming. Issues are developing by the day, from small communities or koala being forced to live in fenced areas because of road and residential development in Australia. To huge like the near extinction of the black and white rhino due to poaching because many black market traders seek refuge in the satisfaction knowing people pay a hefty dollar for the rhino's horn because its mythed to have medicinal "miracles." Endangered animals are left slaughtered and robbed...full grown bull elephants are left dead in national reserves with their tusks sawed off, same goes for rhinos. Siberian tigers are left dismembered because their bone structure and hide also have "miraculous healing powers." The lack of respect for our responsibilities, the animals, amazes me.


The point i was making about "winning inside." You see, people are so quick to say "well we just need to band together and grow awareness." or.."We need to be more efficient in our recources".."We need to come together and teach respect to one another in regards to our earth and its creatures." These are all universally known ideas. The only problem is one thing..."Togetherness."..."we this".."we that"....we as human beings cannot grasp the concept of absolute cooperation. If we had such a knack for it, racism and other forms of prejudice would be eradicated. What im trying to say is we cant win.

We can teach upcoming generations, we can develope environmentally friendly fuels, we can find alternatives to recources that damage our airs and lands. We can adopt homeless pets. We can send money to organizations, we can become vegetarians to honor the system of energy preservation. We can watch all the animal planet we want, and buy any product that supports wildlife preservation.

But you see, solid, concrete statistical data states that we human beings, are causing an extinction of plant and animal species that rivals the one of the epic dinosaur catastriophy. We live in an era where greenery is thirdly to home and office.

Lastly, this has nothing to do with what i said above, and i may come off as a jackass saying it, but i honestly dont care. Alot of people, and im not pointing any fingers , because i dont know anyone in this forum personally, anyways..alot of people who are quick to be childishl and immature and jump to the opportunity of aesthetically judging an animal and have it fall prey to your stupidity and uneducated eye.

For Example: "Omg elephants are sooo gross, they roll in mud like that?"
"Dogs are stupid cause they forget so easily"
"Omg spiders are soo gross with all those legs"
"snakes are soo nasty how they crawl around like that"
etc etc

This is, in my opinion, a by product of a poorly developed manifestation of Fear of an animal of organism. I cannot blame people for being afraid or weary of animals, it is in our human nature as self preservationalists to pre-determine or judge something to classify it, for the sake of better understanding our environment. But I believe that this fear should always indicate a sign of RESPECT for the animal. People are foolish to compare themselves to an entirely different species. Examples like these prove where we go so wrong. God has gifted us with intuition, yet we use it to compare ourselves to other creatures who do not have this capacity. Comparing our intelligence, knowledge of hygene, and aesthetic principles to organisms who 1.) dont obtain capacities to attribute such points to even formulate a comparison on. and 2.) who dont understand the concept of judgement itself. We are ugly people, and i threw my soda on my friend's girlfriend for teasing a wounded deer for soiling itself. Because you see, as crazy as i may come off to be, i value the friendship with my dogs than the ones with my family or friends, its just a better and more gratifying investment.

[keys]

I put 'no'. And it is not that I don't care - it is that I'm not concerned. I was looking at some environmental statistics about a month ago (for Canada) and we are doing really well in most areas. Our emission levels are far below the limit, and the limits are made very cautiously.

I cringe when I read about Kyoto etc. I think we (the international community) have far bigger issues, such as the AIDS epidemic in Africa, and that's where those dollars should be going.

[pianonut]

dear Torp,

i like your saying 'wanting all that you have.'  i've learned a lot too, from getting older and being on both sides (money/no money).  you can choose to be happy that way.  our family has experienced husband working, laid off, working, laid off, now currently working.  we never could scrape enough together to buy a new car for a very long time, so we just took as good of care of the old one as possible.  it has about 250,000 miles on it.  just a year or two ago we finally bought a van.  if we had done this 5-6 years ago, we would have lost it or our credit rating.

our cat was a stray kitten that someone had tried to drown, i think.  when we first got her, she wanted nothing to do with drinking water and would only drink it if noone was around.  we found her up in a tree, scared, and traumatized by something.  i tend to think of animals as basically having human feelings.  am sure they do feel pain.  sometimes i think my cat knows english.  she is very trusting now, too, which makes me feel like in some little way, i've made a difference in the animal world.

i also think zoos are a double edged sword.  it's great, on the one hand, for children to be able to see so many animals in one place - but, yet, to get animals, breed them, sustain them without making them suffer, be lonely, feel abused, neglected - this is wrong!  people that truly understand certain animals and certain environments seem few and far between.  it's a lot of work, and probably full time (like piano to prof. pianists).  to keep track of environment before it's way off track.

i think if i didn't try so hard at piano, i'd want to be a park ranger or care for animals/trees/plants in some way.  i'm highly in favor of moving animals by tranquilization rather than killing (ie. wolves, bear, tiger).  they can always be moved to a more remote place, but i suppose it costs just a bit more than killing them.  if we incorporated conservation into our lives more, the taxes we pay would cover environment just as it covers other things.

have always been interested in how the indians thought about conservation (using the whole animal, if they killed one), not using up all resources, moving about instead of always in one location, work ethic, stamina, and feeling at one with their surroundings.  same with some of the explorers like daniel boone.  like the indians, he was not fearful of wild animals and just gave them the space they needed to live their lives, too.