Rachmaninoff Concerto no. 1...or Schumann?!? (for competition)

[minnielala]

There are two concerto competitions coming up in January and February that I would like to play in. I have fallen deeply in love with Rachmaninoff’s Concerto no. 1 in F-sharp minor. I think about it all the time, I finger it on every flat surface everywhere, and I even dream about performing it.

HOWEVER, my piano teacher would like me to play Schumann’s Piano Concerto in A minor instead, because:

1. HAND SIZE. My left hand can now reach a ninth, and my right hand can just reach an octave. However, in Rachmaninoff’s First Concerto, there is rarely anything past an octave for the R.H. (though there are several octave chords)--I’m hoping that my right hand will stretch with practice.

2. I have never really played any pieces of Rachmaninoff before (unless you count “Polichinelle”). My teacher compares this to jumping in a pool of ice water from a diving board.

3. I go to a very rigorous high school, and may/will not have much time to practice during the school months before competition. Could this equal disaster?

4. Schumann is a beautiful concerto…and it’s a little easier.
 
I have a copy of the Rachmaninoff, and have been sightreading/playing sections of it without too much difficulty (including the cadenza). But is this feeling “false,” i.e., will I melt down with the stress, pressure, and unfamiliar piano of performance?

I feel this music very deeply, and everyone who has ever judged me has been in awe of my overall technique and musicality. I have won a concerto competition before, playing Mozart.

Other little considerations: I have heard that Rach’s first concerto does not have a “memorable” enough melody/theme. Is this important to note? Also, is Schumann the type of concerto that can win competitions and compete against equally-well played Tchaikovsky, Liszt, Saint-Saens, Rach…?

Feel free to suggest any other concertos that are “competition-worthy.” Thank you all in advance.

[kaiwin]

Which competition? and where?

[steinwayguy]

Schumann isn't a spectacular competition concerto when you stack it up against something like Rachmaninoff...

In order to win a concerto competition you need to give a performance that brings the judges to their feet in awe. The most obvious pieces to do this would be... (and, imo, the locks to win a concerto competition)-

Beethoven No. 4, 5
Liszt No. 1, 2
Brahms No. 1, 2
Rachmaninoff No. 1, 2, 3
Prokofiev No. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Tchaikovsky No. 1
Bartok No. 1, 2

You're not going to win that many competitions if you're playing Mozart (or Schumann) and some other guy is playing the Prokofiev 3rd. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but you have to give a Richter-like performance of the Schumann to do it.

So do Rachmaninoff.

Just my two cents.

[mlsmithz]

The Rachmaninov Paganini Rhapsody is a sure thing in most concerto competitions as well (at my current university I've seen it show up once or twice on the programme for the winners' concert).  However, the list above tends to apply more to concerto competitions at university level, especially if the university is really a conservatory (eg Julliard) or else has a world class music school (eg Oberlin).  If this is a high school level competition, I've seen those won by people playing the Schumann before (indeed, my teacher tried to steer me toward the first movement of the Schumann for a competition one year after it became obvious the Chopin F minor was beyond my grasp at the time, but I opted instead for the last two movements of the Beethoven Emperor).  Can it win against well-played Saint-Saens, Tchaikovsky, Liszt, or Rachmaninov?  I'm not so sure about that one; if that's what the other contestants are likely to be playing, the Rachmaninov might be a safer bet. (This said, I remember one year the local amateur orchestra concerto competition where I used to live was won by a girl performing the first movement of the Mozart violin concerto K.216 - the first concerto played by most violinists - and second was shared by two pianists performing the first movements of the Schumann and the Grieg.  I can only assume the violinist gave a rendition reminiscent of Menuhin in his prime (as opposed to Menuhin in later life).  The more impressive piece doesn't always win out.)

I suppose it really boils down to this.  Pros of the Schumann: more accessible, arguably musically superior, and the Rachmaninov Concerto No.1 isn't the best jumping off point for Rachmaninov (this would be something smaller scale - some of the Preludes, Moments Musicaux, Etudes-Tableaux).  Pros of the Rachmaninov: the Schumann is the more overplayed of the two, and the Rachmaninov is technically more impressive.

Good luck whichever you choose!

[viking]

Schumann wins competitions far more often than Rach1 concerto.  However, that being said, Rach 1 is quite underplayed.  The only reason Schumann wins more is that it is performed 10 times as many times as Rach1 concerto.  You would be more likely to win a competition with the Rach1 concerto.
SAM

[Teddybear]

This is almost starting to sound like you judge pieces instead of players in competitions. Well, I'm just bitter because a couple of years ago there was an international piano competition in Finland and some guy won because he played Bartok's 2nd concerto. His playing was totally insignificant... "but it's such a difficult piece! *awe*"

Technical wow is nothing as such, nor is an impressive piece. What's impressive is the ability to bring any piece to life.

I'd definitely choose Schumann, but that's because I don't like Rach1. If you feel deeply and think you can handle it, why not take Rach1? I think it's great if you can choose something that inspires you.

T

[minnielala]

Thank you all so much for your advice. This is for competitions in the Chicago-area, both intended for musicians around the age of 14-18. By the way, there is a 10-minute maximum time limit for one of them--I shudder at the thought of cutting parts from either of these beautiful concerti.

[musicsdarkangel]

A pianist at my (used to be) highschool just won with the Schumann - it's definitely showwy and very neat.


The Rach 1 is being played by a friend of mine, and is also quite showwy. 

They are both great for compition, but keep in mind that the cadenza in the Rach first movement is pretty much as difficult as piano can get.

I'm working on the Rach rhapsody on a theme by Pag.  and I'd highly recommend it for intense fun, and a swift kick in the butt.

[Daevren]

Why not Rach 2, Tchai 1, Prov 3 or Liszt 2?

These are competition winning concerto's.

But it depends on why you are attending this competition. If it is just for experience I would pick a piece you like, are comfortable with and you can play very well.

In the end it depends on the jury and the number and quality/skill of the other competitors. If you are just better than them you will probably win with any concerto. If the jury need to listen to 10 concerto's then it will be hard for them to accurately remember the performanced. Picking the right concerto will help. But I wonder if it will make the difference on your level.

Also, I think we should assume your teacher can better judge the situation than we so I am forced to suggest to follow her/his advice. Maybe your strong points will help you play an excellent Schumann. You also have a concerto that makes you shine the most.

Maybe ask your teacher what she/he things the concerto's you could master before January are, listen to them and pick the one you like the most. Maybe listen to SteinwayGuy's list and pick your favorite. But playing Schumann isn't fundamentally a not good idea.

[minnielala]

Thanks again for the help. I have semi-decided to play Schumann. As much as I love Rachmaninoff, I feel more as if I'm indulging myself when I'm playing it, whereas I think I am more able to touch others with Schumann, somehow.

[steinwayguy]

I will contend that Rachmaninoff Second is not a good competition piece because it shows relatively little soloistically.

[Jacey1973]

Rachmaninov is certainly impressive - but who says you couldn't win a competition playing the Schumann well? I don't think it matters too much what you play (well obviously you have to adore a piece to spend months preparing it) it's how you put your personality/interpretation across in the performance.

I think i prefer the Schumann to the Rach.

[BoliverAllmon]

I would go with the Rach in a heart beat. That is one of my favorite concertoes.

boliver

[hodi]

I would go with schumann, it's more emotional, it's just a better piece of music.

[BoliverAllmon]

I would go with schumann, it's more emotional, it's just a better piece of music.

blaspheme!!!!!!!!!!!! J/K to each his own.

[happyface94]

I'm learning the Rach 1. From my teacher's point of view, it is easier than the Schumann... and easier than BOTH of the Chopin.

[steinwayguy]

I'm learning the Rach 1. From my teacher's point of view, it is easier than the Schumann... and easier than BOTH of the Chopin.

I wouldn't doubt it's easier than both the Chopin, but the Schumann I strongly doubt. Schumann is extremely difficult, but it doesn't have anything on that Rachmaninoff 1st Cadenza...

[pianinho]

schumann concerto easy? Soemtimes the easiest is the most difficult to convince the jury... I have a small hand too, I only do the octaves but with practice now i can do 10th minor. It's practice and a lot of suffering...Dont force your hand...can cause tendinites. BUT MY REALLY ADVICE IS TO FOLLOW YOUR HEARTH... BUT IN COMPETITIONS, FOLLOW THE TEACHER ADVICES AND YOUR HEAD!!!!!!!!!!

[viking]

I admire your courage to decide to play Schumann (easier).  It takes much courage to settle down and make realistic goals, instead of jumping into extreme concertos.  I just got back from my provincial competitions, and asked the senior piano judge Dale Jackson about learning the Rach 1 concerto for myself.  He said the Rach 1 is much MUCH tougher than the Rach 2, because it is much tougher musically to present, and there are so many notes.  Rach 2 is almost a better concerto to compete with, because the interpretation is relatively simple.  There are so many possibilities with Rach1 that half the judges will like it and the other half will not.  It's a win/lose situation, while as Rach2 is usually win/win if you prepare it right.  Actually I like Rach 1 way more, rach 2 is vastly overperformed, but understandably so.  I wish I had the courage to play easier concertos, but im just too impatient.  Ill probably learn Rach1 anyway even though the judge recommended Kachaturian, Gershwin F, and Rach Pag.  Not that there too much easier though.
Just a thought.
SAM

[MattL]

with rachmaninoff, if you deliver on the performance, the jusdges with definately be left with a sense of awe but...... if you screw up on this piece either techinically or musically then to deicde to perform this one would just be a waste of time. But you should always go with the less played concerti because there is less of a demand to be overly spectacular at it to set yourself apart from the crowd.

[Sergey R]

Rach 1 I say!

[happyface94]

If the Rach 1 is too hard, and maybe the Schumann is too hard, my teacher recommends the (actually she did to me), the Mendelssohn in G minor I think.