Piano Forum

How do they compare with Beethoven's piano sonatas?

It is different in sound, of course the musical materials are still in the style of Beethoven. The main thing that changes I feel is the texture of the piece, Liszt definitely organises the notes differently to Beethoven, the chordal structure is more dominant, and you can tell that the hands takes more than one line of music, in fact, it almost takes a 4-part role, with the placement of melody usually on the upper voices of the treble and sometimes bass clefs, so there is a thickness about the transcriptions. The articulation of the piano is not as flexible because of its capabilities to produce the attack and release of the notes to that of the orchestral instruments, so there is a feeling of "precision" to the piece, a little more restrained is what I mean, compared to the sonatas, however, it also depend on which transcriptions you're looking at, have a listen to the 3rd, 6th and 7th, they are different to the others and sound more like pieces for piano.

I also think that the progression of harmony is much more extended in the symphonies, sure there are more notes but to tailor to the orchestra, the stretching out of harmonies through the chordal textures differs from the sonatas, with the faster changing harmony lines. Also the melodic lines are less defined, with less repetitions of motifs and more fragments or reminiscences of the original melodic line, being extended. So yeah, more defined melodic line in the sonatas, and faster harmonic changes. The expression and dynamics however are pretty similar.

I guess the thing is you really cannot talk about the symphonies in isolation, because of the purpose and intentions of the transcriptions. They are basically note-by-note transcriptions (I've checked out all the scores and it is very precise and unbelievably, Liszt fits almost all notes from the orchestral score  into the piano transcription!! perhaps this is what makes it sound chordal and thick in texture and a little heavy at times for piano), but I love the transcriptions, they were written not only because Liszt was hugely influenced by Beethoven, but it was to bring the symphonies to the people, making them more accessible during times when it wasn't easy to just go to a concert and hear the symphonies. So they were and are suppose to be heard as transcriptions. I know that this is the whole point of the thread, but I think if you were talking about any of the operatic fantasias, or song transcriptions, you could totally analyse them as piano works, and they sound like piano works, but the symphonies are the exceptions...

ludwig