Piano Forum



Body and Intention – Tracking Down Musicians’ Health
It is easy to take piano playing and musicianship for granted but most people have experienced physical tension and strain while practicing. The American pianist, pedagogue, and researcher Dr. Kathleen Riley has spent many years developing a method called Optimal Performance, scanning pianists’ bodies using electrodes. In a Masterclass with students and pianist Garrick Ohlsson as test subjects at San Francisco International Piano Festival last fall, we get a chance to see how the method works in action. Read more >>

Topic: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti  (Read 5083 times)

Offline mozoot

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 22
Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
on: August 22, 2005, 06:29:03 PM
If you had to pick one, which concert of the complete etudes of these composers would you want to attend out of the these?
Chopin
Liszt
Scriabin
Ligeti
Sorabji (just for sh$&s and giggles)

Offline pita bread

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1136
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #1 on: August 22, 2005, 06:36:23 PM
Sorabji's 100 Transcendental Etudes, by far. From what I've read about these etudes, they're quite varied in style, ranging from beautiful and sensual to fiery and barbaric.

Scriabin would have been fine too, but I don't care much for the Op. 8 romantic-era etudes.

Offline arensky

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2324
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #2 on: August 22, 2005, 06:45:03 PM
Scriabin. I've heard the Chopin concert several times (the late Yuri Egourov :'( was the best one).

Don't know the Sorabji Etudes; Ligeti would be fine, Liszt would be very interesting, there's a lot of variety there. But I would still go to the Scriabin concert, his music is the most interesting for me.
=  o        o  =
   \     '      /   

"One never knows about another one, do one?" Fats Waller

Offline prometheus

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3819
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #3 on: August 22, 2005, 11:34:03 PM
If someone is going to perform Sorabji's 100 transcendental etudes, how can you refuse?
"As an artist you don't rake in a million marks without performing some sacrifice on the Altar of Art." -Franz Liszt

Offline pita bread

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1136
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #4 on: August 23, 2005, 08:19:49 AM
I'd love to hear all the Ligeti too, but tough luck finding a pianist to play all of those...

Offline mozoot

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 22
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #5 on: August 23, 2005, 12:54:47 PM
Where can you find the music to the 100 transcendental etudes..?

Offline ahinton

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12144
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #6 on: August 23, 2005, 01:12:01 PM
If someone is going to perform Sorabji's 100 transcendental etudes, how can you refuse?

How can who refuse? We wouldn't, for starters! - especially if the player can play them! At present, the Swedish pianist Fredrik Ullén has performed almost half of them in various concerts and has recorded the first 22, due for relase on BIS late this year; he's also due to record volume 2 of this ongoing series (nos. 23 - 40, we think) for BIS in December.

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline ahinton

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12144
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #7 on: August 23, 2005, 01:13:54 PM
Where can you find the music to the 100 transcendental etudes..?
Direct from us by sending an email to
sorabji-archive@lineone.net
I hate to have to warn you that they are unavoidably expensive - but then they do comprise 864 landscape A3 pages and are bound in two volumes.

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline mozoot

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 22
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #8 on: August 23, 2005, 01:16:02 PM
I hope Ullen's Sorabji is better than his Ligeti. Because put up next to Aimards Ligeti, Ullen, doesn't quite sound........well, it just doesnt' sound.

Offline shasta

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 492
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #9 on: August 23, 2005, 01:48:17 PM
The Chopin-Godowsky Etudes
"self is self"   - i_m_robot

Offline prometheus

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3819
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #10 on: August 23, 2005, 02:40:24 PM
I meant, how could anyone refuese :) Assuming they are well played. Otherwise I would either go with Liszt or Ligeti.

Thats interesting, Alistair. I knew he played them. But I will be looking forward to the recording (ie buying them).

"As an artist you don't rake in a million marks without performing some sacrifice on the Altar of Art." -Franz Liszt

Offline stevie

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2803
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #11 on: August 23, 2005, 05:45:31 PM
out of the choices - liszt

they are all amazing, and i think they work better as a set

Offline pita bread

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1136
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #12 on: August 23, 2005, 07:00:21 PM
I can't wait for Ullen's Sorabji cd to come out.

Offline ahinton

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12144
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #13 on: August 23, 2005, 10:08:24 PM
I can't wait for Ullen's Sorabji cd to come out.
Sadly, you'll have to do so nevertheless (just like the rest of us!) - although not for too long, we hope! It is likely to be the first of about seven featuring the entire cycle of 100; all are planned to be made available separately.

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline minor9th

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 686
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #14 on: December 31, 2005, 07:50:24 PM
Sorabji's would take several days, but I'd vote for them! Ullen sounds great in the samples I've heard:

https://www.fredrikullen.com/sorabji.htm

Offline etudes

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 809
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #15 on: December 31, 2005, 09:38:48 PM
If you had to pick one, which concert of the complete etudes of these composers would you want to attend out of the these?
Chopin
Liszt
Scriabin
Ligeti
Sorabji (just for sh$&s and giggles)
Liszt - ab irato,2 concert etudes,3 concert etudes,Paganini etudes,early Paganini etudes,Transcendental,Earlier transcendental(douze Grandes Etudes,etude op1 ??? all together would be too much in 1 concert!
the same as Sorabji 100 Transcendental,Godowsky-Chopin 53 studies is too long for me.....
so i prefer chopin
Piano = my life
My life = piano

Offline pita bread

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1136
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #16 on: December 31, 2005, 11:47:11 PM
I'm still interested in the Sorabji etudes, especially the more "impressionistic" nocturnes, but I'm also considering Liszt Transcendentals and Ligeti etudes now.

Offline rohansahai

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #17 on: January 01, 2006, 12:55:10 AM
Add Alkan's op. 39 and add my vote to it.
Waste of time -- do not read signatures.

Offline g_s_223

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 505
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #18 on: January 01, 2006, 01:33:25 AM
Add Alkan's op. 39 and add my vote to it.
That's a good call. Deffo an interesting set, these...

Offline panic

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #19 on: January 01, 2006, 02:47:19 AM
Or even Alkan's 35s.

Offline ryguillian

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 332
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #20 on: January 01, 2006, 03:21:57 AM
Aren't Debussy's études worth a concert?

—Ryan
“Our civilization is decadent and our language—so the argument runs—must inevitably share in the general collapse.”
—, an essay by George Orwell

Offline sevencircles

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 913
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #21 on: January 01, 2006, 10:21:52 AM
Quote
I hope Ullen's Sorabji is better than his Ligeti. Because put up next to Aimards Ligeti, Ullen, doesn't quite sound........well, it just doesnt' sound.

Fredrik Ullén is just an amateur. He works as a brainscientist and propably haven´t got that much time to practice.

Offline ryguillian

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 332
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #22 on: January 01, 2006, 07:05:35 PM
Quote from: sevencircles
Fredrik Ullén is just an amateur. He works as a brainscientist and propably haven't got that much time to practice.

The first Google search result for “Ullén” has the following description:

“Fredrik Ullen Hompage, pianist, neuroscience researcher, lecturer.”

”Pianist“ is listed first and we can assume that his pursuits as a pianist are equal to his pursuits as a “brainscientist”. We don't really have to assume, though; we can observe the fact that Mr. Ullén recorded nine albums (and appears on two other compilation live albums) which have received positive reviews by professionals; the fact that he has given more than sixty concerts since 2003; the fact that his repertoire includes sixteen piano concertos and hundreds of solo piano pieces ranging from easy to severely difficult (Sorabji / Ligeti / Flynn).

Figures aren't available, but I can assure you that with credentials like this, Mr. Ullén “propably” is no amateur and has much time to practice.

—Ryan
“Our civilization is decadent and our language—so the argument runs—must inevitably share in the general collapse.”
—, an essay by George Orwell

Offline stevie

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2803
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #23 on: January 01, 2006, 08:19:05 PM
Aren't Debussy's études worth a concert?

—Ryan

sadly, no

8)

Offline vers la flamme

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 14
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #24 on: January 03, 2006, 12:17:41 AM
Scriabin's

Why?

1) I'm sick of the Chopin etudes
2) Liszt etudes aren't my favorite except for Mazzepa, and La Campanella
3) The Ligeti I have not heard

Scriabin has some real gems, and some etudes that sound like they were written in a mental hospital when he was in a straight jacket (Op. 43 no. 3 F sharp major)

Offline ryguillian

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 332
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #25 on: January 03, 2006, 12:47:18 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme
ome etudes that sound like they were written in a mental hospital when he was in a straight jacket[.]

Notating music while wearing a straight jacket would make me rather upset, too.

—Ryan
“Our civilization is decadent and our language—so the argument runs—must inevitably share in the general collapse.”
—, an essay by George Orwell

Offline musicsdarkangel

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 975
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #26 on: January 03, 2006, 08:29:36 PM
Liszt - I've heard the Chopin etudes enough already.

Offline chromatickler

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 560
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #27 on: January 04, 2006, 01:27:12 PM
chopin

with in hand

Offline jas

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 638
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #28 on: January 04, 2006, 03:36:22 PM
I'd see the Chopin, because I've never heard the etudes performed live. Scriabin would be my second choice. I've never been very into the Liszt (though I do love some of them) and I don't know enough of Ligeti's to know what I think of them.

Jas

Offline BoliverAllmon

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4155
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #29 on: January 04, 2006, 04:49:59 PM
I am surprised no one mention Rachmaninoff.

I would go with Ligeti.

Offline mrcreosote

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #30 on: February 15, 2017, 01:24:46 AM
Ancient thread - timeless topic

My brain simply cannot process anythig beyond Rach's Etudes-Tableaux.

Chopin only if Zlata Chochieva - otherwise bored.  But can also be too complex for my taste such as Introduction and Rondo

Liszt probably my top pick mainly because I don't know most of them

Scriabin is just too modern if NOT his "simple" works like the Op8#12.

Ligeti also too modern but is OK for a "splash of sound" - but I'm bored or maybe stupefied after 15-30 seconds.

BUT from this list the Rach E-T are right in my sweat spot.  Oh, and Prokofiev is too modern in the "slow bits" - melodies remind me of Brownian motion  ...with rhythm and phrasing.

Offline j_tour

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3766
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #31 on: February 15, 2017, 03:37:22 AM
Yeah, but the fingerings Chopin precribed for the otherwise charming. Op. 10. no. 2. 

I've come to appreciate Chopin in my middle years, but I just can't/won't play that one at speed with those fingerings.  It's like a Vincent Price/Roger Corman torture device, as far as I'm concerned.  And it's a nice little tune, too, if you just play it without regard to Chopin's fingerings.
My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Offline lostinidlewonder

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7475
Re: Etudes: Chopin vs Liszt vs Scriabin vs Ligeti
Reply #32 on: February 15, 2017, 03:45:20 AM
Direct from us by sending an email to
sorabji-archive@lineone.net
I hate to have to warn you that they are unavoidably expensive - but then they do comprise 864 landscape A3 pages and are bound in two volumes.

Best,

Alistair
Are they still all handwritten scores or has the typesetting been done yet or is it ever going to be?
"The biggest risk in life is to take no risk at all."
www.pianovision.com
For more information about this topic, click search below!
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert