Rachmaninov or Rachmaninoff?

[rachmaninov uk]

Why does he have to spellings of his name? i use Rachmaninov because that's what's written on the c.d's i have of his. Surely the name that was on his birth certificate (if they had them back in those days) or the spelling he used himself, should be the one we all use. I bet it's just the Americans who say Rachmaninoff...always have to be different 

[pianistimo]

yes. many names were americanized.  for those that didn't immigrate so fast - their names are spelled different.  prokofiev, etc.

my husband is of russian ancestry, and it is interesting when i've studied into his geneology because his family name was not only spelled differently, but considerably shortened.

[rachmaninov uk]

so do you know which one is the American version?

[xvimbi]

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,6134.0.html

There is nothing new under the sun, it seems.

[Kassaa]

The only right version is the one in the Russian language, which can be translated into many way.

[princessdecadence]

Рахманинов is much harder than Rachmaninov.  I prefer to write it Rachmaninov but both are correct. It sounds more mysterious with a v

Why is this thread in 'repertoire'

[perfect_pitch]

Why does he have to spellings of his name? i use Rachmaninov because that's what's written on the c.d's i have of his. Surely the name that was on his birth certificate (if they had them back in those days) or the spelling he used himself, should be the one we all use. I bet it's just the Americans who say Rachmaninoff...always have to be different 

The correct way is Rachmaninoff.  Sorry about that.





Nahhh.... i'm just kidding, I just wanted to see for a second if you would desperately try and change your nickname to the correct spelling.... Either that or you could try change your nickname to Рахманинов and have it completely correct...   

[rachmaninov uk]

Why is this thread in 'repertoire'

I put it in here because it's a discussion about a composer. And this is where you are supposed to put it. I probably would change it to the Russian spelling, but i don't have those funky letters :p
This topic is like the chicken or the egg thing haha

Anyway, i think we can safely say, no one has a CLUE as to which spelling is correct lol. So i think we can leave it at that.

P.S Rachmaninov is the best

[Kassaa]

I put it in here because it's a discussion about a composer. And this is where you are supposed to put it. I probably would change it to the Russian spelling, but i don't have those funky letters :p
This topic is like the chicken or the egg thing haha

Anyway, i think we can safely say, no one has a CLUE as to which spelling is correct lol. So i think we can leave it at that.

P.S Rachmaninov is the best

Err, if you read my post above you can see that the correct spelling is the Russian spelling...

[rohansahai]

raCHmaNInoV :
There are three trickly portions in the pronounciation.
1. the CH is not like what you would normally pronounce ( normal being something like in "CHemistry" ) but rather like 'kh' with air blown through the back of your mouth (near the throat). The 'h' is more prominent than the 'k'.
2. NI -prounounced somethin like 'nya'.
3. V - more like vh ..again air blown, this time through your teeth. That's why 'ff' is also used , but its somewhere in between v and ff ....and that is "vh".
So, the final pronounciation should be something like:
Rakhmanyanovh.

[mlsmithz]

My understanding is that Cyrillic names have been Romanised in different ways to make it clear how to pronounce them if your native language is English or German.  I think that might be the source of such apparent discrepancies as Rachmaninov vs. Rachmaninoff, Rimsky-Korsakov vs. Rimsky-Korsakoff, Shostakovich vs. Schostakowitsch, Kabalevsky vs. Kabalewski, Tchaikovsky vs. Tschaikowski(?).... it does all boil down to the fact that there is no one standard way to transliterate Cyrillic characters into the Roman alphabet, as has been observed, so the transliteration is done in such a way that the phonetic pronunciation which seems most natural to the target audience gives a reasonable approximation of the correct Russian pronunciation.

And if there's some debate about whether this belongs in Repertoire, how about giving it the hallmark of 90% of threads in Repertoire: a difficulty comparison!  More difficult: Sonata No.1 or Sonata No.2?

[rob47]

randomly, some people spell it "Rahkmaninov"

However I've taken to spelling it ROCK or ROCKY

[Waldszenen]

There's also Rachmaninow (similar to Tschaikowsky) where the W replaces the V.

[prometheus]

The correct spelling is Сергей Васильевич Рахманинов.

All romanisations depend on the fonetics used in the language they are based on. Surely in english Rachmaninov is the most obvious way to write it. But in other languages it isn't.

Writing 'Rachmaninov' is just as wrong as writing 'hfghjgfhj'. What is the version in japanese? Rakumaninofu?

You can't write down his name in romanisation. Discussing the correct spelling is impossible. All versions are fonetic approximations of the pronounciation and each language has it's own fonetics. For example Shostakovich in my language is Sjostakovitsj. We don't have 'shos' and 'vich'. 'Scriabin' is written 'skrjabin'. Scriabin in japanese might be 'Sukirujiabinu' or something like that.

[rachmaninov uk]

Err, if you read my post above you can see that the correct spelling is the Russian spelling...

I'm not on about the Russian spelling, im talking about the English version

[abell88]

I saw a record once (yeah, showing my age here) from Italy, by this composer: Ciaicchovscchai (something like that): Tchaikovsky.

[Kassaa]

I'm not on about the Russian spelling, im talking about the English version

There's no correct English version.

[leahcim]

2. NI -prounounced somethin like 'nya'.

Not any more, it's Ecky- ecky- ecky- ecky- pikang- zoop- boing- goodem- zoo- owli- zhiv'

[guru_of_time]

I prefer Rachmaninoff because it looks and sounds more completed (if that makes any sense) than with the ov...
maybe I like it more because the letter f takes up the entire vertical space of the line and I like symmetry. Rf looks better to me than Rv...ov just doesn't look right at the end...so, Rachmaninoff > Rachmaninov

[alzado]

If it makes anyone feel better, there are about six ways to spell the name of the composer Moussorgsky.

Do you think the Russians are conspiring against us?

:-)

[prometheus]

Six?

Maybe 60.

[maxy]

Rach himself decided he wanted Rachmaninoff. 

[mrchops10]

Why don't we just avoid the hassle and call everyone by their first name and patronyms--Rachmaninoff is thus Sergei Vasilievich...

or is that Sergey...

Serge...

A quick search on Google reveals that Rachmaninov makes about 37% more "hits" than Rachmaninoff, and I believe Grove lists it with the -ov ending. I like the -ff better, so I just spell it that way and everyone knows what I mean. Anglicization of German names can also be wonderful---if no umlaut is available (as on pianoforum) do we leave it as is, or add an e behind the vowel? Is it Karl Boehm, or Karl Bohm? And actually Schoenberg is often spelt that way even in Germany, with no umlaut at all. If we become to obsessed with standardizing everything, it can get to be ridiculous. Titles of Pieces is even more complicated, so just go with your gut and provide as much information as you feel is necessary.

[apion]

Rach himself decided he wanted Rachmaninoff. 

One would think that would end the discussion 

[thierry13]

Rachmaninov is the suposed "correct" english traduction. "Rachmaninoff" is the way HE wanted it to be spelled. So, I think Rachmaninoff is more suitable, as he chose it himself 

[trunks]

The Chinese (Mandarin) translation sounds like
Laa-ker-ma-ni-no-fu (!!)

[rachmaninov uk]

ok end of conversation. this thread will self destruct in 30 seconds

[thierry13]

Rachmaninoff is Rachmaninoff. Rachmaninov is a dirty label.