The Juilliard Bashing Thread

[jakester]

I'd just like to say: Juilliard Sucks! It's a prison for the artistically minded people, and a place for the competitive nature of pianists to overcome their humanitarian nature. It's a place for the professors (such as they are) to overpower and control the students, and for the administration to destroy any semblance of individuality in favor of order. It's a nazi camp with swastikas in open areas defying common sense, where any small act of heroics by the students to expose the totalitarian regime is squashed down and buried forever under threatening paperwork from their puppet lawyers.

Thank you.

[jakester]

On a side note, please come and visit the school if you're in town.

[meiting]

Jakester, don't you think that's going a little overboard? I'm sure there are logical explanations for all of your accusations.

[Noah]

Got rejected after an audition, did ya ?

[meiting]

lol. actually, I think he's in the school.. if he's who I think he is. But i"m not sure.

mei-ting

[jakester]

I don't know who you think i am, and I won't tell - especially after the start of this thread I gotta watch who knows who I am now.. but yeah, i'm in the school. And I'm not the "obvious" poster ie., not the one that you guys in Juilliard might think.

[eddie92099]

Do you guys all know each other then?
Ed

[xenon]

jaskester> Could you please elaborate?

[Hmoll]

Two words: Tranfer out.

[meiting]

Hmoll - even though some of us might not feel quite as strongly as "jakester" over there about Juilliard.. most of us have similar feelings towards the school. And transfering out is not really practical - Many of us are there for the connections and name-power. We just like to criticize the school because of its faults, which is that it doesn't live up to its name. It can't live up to its name because that is simply impossible.

mei-ting

[xenon]

Are you saying that I should not consider applying to Juilliard?

[meiting]

Not at all. What you should think about, is what you want from the school you're applying to. It's actually what you should think about before doing anything in your life but enough philosophical statements.

If you want a great, comprehensive education in music, then the Bachelor's program at Juilliard is not what you want. And by a comprehensive education, I mean you don't just learn how to play your instrument, but also you learn about the history of music, the culture, literature, theory, and other basic musical skills. It's not impossible (hey, double negative!) to get a good education in Juilliard, but they do not have an organized system, so it would depend heavily on which history and theory professors you end up with. I can't really say much else since I didn't actually go through the curriculum - I only know about it from hearsay, and from the working material I see of the current students. I'd much rather recommand Juilliard for their higher education than lower ones.

If you want more details, message me.

mt

[xenon]

I already took most of my History and Theory requirements with the RCM (which I will complete next year).  Will I have to do it again, if I make it to Juilliard?

[meiting]

What you'll have to do at Juilliard will depend on your placement exams. I don't know which degree you'll be applying for, but I'm assuming that it'll be the MM (masters of music). In that case, if you pass out of the required theory and music history, you'll be fine and you won't have to take any classes in that.

Their ear training department is a little weird - it's very strict, and they do certain exercizes that other schools don't do. The first couple of years are ok, which is probably all you'd need to pass out of anyway, and try to stay away from y ear 4 and 5. it's useless.

If you're not going for a masters, let me know and we can discuss that hehe.

mei-ting

[xenon]

Actually, I will be applying for the Undergraduate (BM) degree.

[Hmoll]

Hmoll - even though some of us might not feel quite as strongly as "jakester" over there about Juilliard.. most of us have similar feelings towards the school. And transfering out is not really practical - Many of us are there for the connections and name-power. We just like to criticize the school because of its faults, which is that it doesn't live up to its name. It can't live up to its name because that is simply impossible.

mei-ting

Understood. However, Julliard has had that reputation for decades, and anyone looking into attending a conservatory would have to know that before hand.
Julliard's reputation as a good school, on the other hand, has its merits because there are a lot of great musicians who have come from there. On the other hand, orchestras, concert halls, and operas are full of great musicians who did not go to Julliard. There are a lot of great schools with great teachers in the US where you can get a well rounded education, as well as progress as far as you want on your instrument.

When I see a post like the one I initially responded to, which is long on invective, and short on actual facts, examples or ideas, I have to ask if the poster is part of the solution or part of the problem.

[meiting]

Xenon - For bachelors, i'd suggest that you apply to Mannes College of Music. Actually, I'd suggest that you apply to all of the schools, but in my mind Mannes seems to be the best school right now. I've studied at both Mannes and Juilliard, and I know the Manhatten curriculum quite well. Manhatten is a lesser version of Juilliard, while Juilliard is not well-organized at all. Unless you have a teacher that you really want to study with at Juilliard, who doesn't teach anywhere else, Mannes is probably the way to go.

Hmoll - Juilliard's reputation as a good school comes from the people that are long dead. Great reputation results from great faculty, and the ones that built that reputation has been dead for many years now - Josef and Rosina Lhevinne, Adele Marcus, just to name a few. Even Dorothy Delay is dead, and she was the last of that generation.

[rach17]

I really like the Eastman faculty.  I have had lessons with Dr. Humphreys, masterclasses with Thomas Shoemacher (sp?) and Natalya Antoniva and they are all extremely good.  My teacher also got his Bachelor's there under Nelita True.

[allchopin]

What about Lillie Wollin Nanness- has anyone heard of her?  She is excellent and has a sound, constant tecnique. (but maybe not a professor...)

[eddie92099]

What about Lillie Wollin Nanness- has anyone heard of her?

What kind of name is that?
Ed

[xenon]

My piano teacher told me to consider Eastman.  I believes that she favours that school because that is where she recieved her DMA.  My older piano teacher (who only teaches up to a certain point) suggested to apply for Curtis, Eastman, and Juilliard.  Her son (cellist) took his BM at Eastman, MM at Juilliard, and DMA at Yale (all on full scholarships), so she is fairly balanced in opinions.

[BoliverAllmon]

Have you guys from Julliard heard him yet. I know he goes there and I heard him tonight. I thought he did quite well.

boliver

[Celeste]

Okay, so is Juliard really as hard to get into as they say? I think I heard, from this forum actually, that only seven got into out of 1500 that applied for piano.

[yohankwon]

Just thought I would bring this back to the recent posts because.....has anything changed at Juilliard yet? Or is it still the same?

[cometear]

Where are all you guys now? It's been 10 years since this post was active. It'd be great to hear what's changed in... *gulp* ...10 years. Wow. That's really amazing. 10 years. I was 3 at the time! SO cool.

[indianajo]

HA! I'll bash Juliard.  
I got an SAT in the 1:10000 range, made last chair in the top band in the All State band, got applications and flyers from about 600 schools, many from the music department.
Not Julliard.  Texas people are supposed to play country & western, I suppose, on lap steel guitar.  
***, our college orchestra and band were awful! I've never been tempted to get a music degree, since.  Who needs it; we have LP's and CD's to inspire us these days.  I do so & so better than this guy and he is famous enough to have a commercial recording.  He is probably better at everything else, but who cares. I don't view music as a competition anyway, I view it as an art.  
One inspiring thing I saw year before last: Herbie Hancock played Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue with the LA Philharmonic on PBS public television.  https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/episodes/herbie-hancock-gustavo-dudamel-and-the-la-phil-celebrate-gershwin/about-the-concert/1221/    See, even people without a degree can do it, it just takes practice.  I bought my copy of the 2 piano original score of Rhapsody this fall.  It might take me a little longer than a Juliard graduate to work up.  I'm just an amateur.

[birba]

Julliard attracts the "crème", weeds them and produces the "crème de la crème".  At least the technically perfect ones.