E.T.'s

[lisztisforkids]

So.. Are we alone? Methinks not. What do you think?

[pianolearner]

So.. Are we alone? Methinks not. What do you think?

I have a mixed opinion on this. It’s unlikely that we are the only life in the universe but we may be the only intelligent life. The problem is that scientists cannot explain the detailed steps involved to go from non-living to living. So even if the are a 1000 billion earth like planets, the odds of creating life may be so infinitesimally small that it may only happen on one of them-this one.

[rc]

It seems to me, that life of some kind will pop up in any circumstance.

...It's time for me to clean the fridge

[prometheus]

It's very hard to tell. One would think life wouldn't be too rare and the universe is large enough. Science has learned us that the earth isn't unique and special.

But if there is life out there, what kind of live. There are no signs of intelligent civilizations like we would imagine them in science fiction. Look at the fermi paradox arguments.

I think there is life out there, and on rare occasion it will be classified intelligent also, but it will be very very different. I don't think a life form like humans exist anywhere close enough to contact. And if they do, they probably died out already, or they will only exist after we have died out.

There is no sign of intelligent live in the universe. So I am going to assume none exist for the time being. But we know very little.

[pianolearner]

It seems to me, that life of some kind will pop up in any circumstance.

...It's time for me to clean the fridge

I think life is very hardy but the facts contradict your statement. The “ingredients” for life exists everywhere in the Universe but how can you (logically) explain the fact that Earth is the only planet with detectable life within our own solar system? Our moon, a mere stone throw away by cosmological standards, is completely lifeless? I think that conditions must be absolutely perfect, then the correct sequence of events must occur to produce life.

The analogy I like to use is a cake. There are millions, perhaps 100’s of millions of kitchens around the world that contain all the right ingredients to make a cake but how many have spontaneously produced one? Without the ingredients being mixed together in the right amounts and the proper stimulant applied, those ingredients will do nothing.

[prometheus]

The cake analogy doesn't make sense. It seems that if the right circumstances exist life will form. If we look at the history of earth, when it had the right circumstances, life came into being fairly quickly.

Life as we know it requires liquid water because that is the only way the complex reactions involving carbohydrates can happen. There is no real alternative for carbon. So we need liquid water.

There is only room for one Terra in our Sol. All other planets are too close or too far away from the sun.

[pianolearner]

>The cake analogy doesn't make sense.

Yes it does.

>It seems that if the right circumstances exist life will form

You only have ONE example. Hardly enough to produce reliable statistics.

>If we look at the history of earth, when it had the right circumstances
>life came into being fairly quickly.

I am not arguing about the necessity for conditions to be right. I'm saying that no scientist has been able to clearly define what must happen WHEN conditions are right. All we know, and can prove, is that life exists on earth, one planet in an unknown quantity. Everything else is speculation.

>Life as we know it requires liquid water because that is
>the only way the complex reactions involving carbohydrates
>can happen. There is no real alternative for carbon.
>So we need liquid water.

You are not telling me anything I don't know. I was arguing against the claim that life will occur under ANY circumstance.

P.S: The building blocks for life are Amino Acids, not carbohydrates.

[prometheus]

Yes, we have only one example. You assume this one example is a big exception, but there is no reason to do so. We can only assume that earth is a good generalisation for a planet where life is developed.

Your mistake was that every kitchen has the ingredients to make a cake. This is not the case with planets. Most planets do not have the ingredients. And it seems when the ingredients are there, life will from rather quickly.
Because we have no statistical information this is the only logical assumption. But it is true that we can't be sure. Therefore your analogy is wrong.

It seems the only thing you meant with 'ingredients' were the right elements. You ignored the right enviromental circumstances, which are probably more important because the essential ingredients are rather common in this universe. And you made a big point out of chance. I am not sure if you meant with chance: the right enviromental circumstances. I assumed you did not. I assumed you meant the chance that with all the ingredients for the processe to happen the chance that it actually does happen. But this is just in contradiction with the very little information we do have. May be true after all, but it is not supported by the fragmented facts we have.

Yes, amino acids are building blocks, but not in the sense that they are more essential than carbohydrates. I was just giving one example. Both are totally essential and both require liquid water. One is the building block and the other the energy, generally speaking.

[thalbergmad]

I used to be a bit of a U F O nut a few years ago which changed my opinion on ET's.

If it was not for the incidents at Roswell and Rendelsham, i would be inclined to dismiss any other life forms, but the above made with think that something did indeed happen.

There has been a lot of crap written on the subject and it must be nigh on impossible to weed out the fact from fiction.

[gilad]

once upon a time people thought the earth was flat, that the sun revolved around the earth; they weren't even aware of the existence of other continents.

anything is possible, and ETs are certainly not excluded from the list of possibilties. from what we "know" there are no ETs. but the truth is - we know so little.

[brahmsian]

"Other life in the universe" shouldn't be restricted to "life as we know it" (carbon based life forms). If I remember correctly, silicon(?) is very close to carbon in structure. There exists a possibility that other life forms could have silicon as their basic element. The concept of sentient life doesn't mean walking, talking, bi-pedal, carbon based things. Life as we know it requires water and other such things. However, other life on other planets could have evolved with a different chemical construction due to a different environment.

I think there is other life in the universe. It is too vast to not be inhabited by other forms of life. Just imagine if we are all alone....makes you feel kinda.....small

[prometheus]

Silicon shares some of the essential properties with carbon, making large complex molecules possible. But, because it has more electrons, reactions involving silicon require much more energy. Carbon-based life forms will be much more efficient than silicon-based life forms. So if carbon-based life is possible then silicon-based life forms will become extinct because they would not be able to compete.

When there is no carbon availible and there are really optimal circumstances, who knows what would happen.

[lisztisforkids]

I dont think that anybody here has mentioned this yet.

The universe is HUGE. To paraphrase Carl Sagan, there are billions and billions and billions of galaxy's out there with trillions and trillions of stars. To say that there is no life out there is absurd. Just because we havent encountered any life yet mean nothing. The universe is just to *** BIG. We may never encounter life out there, but thats no reason to say there is no life.  Infact, the odds are very much against the notion of there being no life in universe besides earth, very much against. There is probaly no intelligent life in this galaxy, but remember, there are billions and billions and billions and billions of othere galaxy's out there.

[mycrabface]

So.. Are we alone?

aHEM.. I think we're forgetting about God.

[mephisto]

aHEM.. I think we're forgetting about God.

God doesn`t exist.

-The Mephisto

[prometheus]

I dont think that anybody here has mentioned this yet.

The universe is HUGE. To paraphrase Carl Sagan,

Actually, I already mentioned Fermi's reply to this point made by Drake in the Drake equation.

The paradox can therefore be summed up as follows: The commonly held belief that the universe has many technologically advanced civilizations, combined with our observations that suggest otherwise, is paradoxical, suggesting that either our understanding or our observations are flawed or incomplete.

So while Fermi agreed that the scale of the universe should mean there should be intelligent life somewhere, we don't observe any signs of it, but we should based on out knowledge today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

[pianolearner]

I dont think that anybody here has mentioned this yet.

The universe is HUGE. To paraphrase Carl Sagan, there are billions and billions and billions of galaxy's out there with trillions and trillions of stars. To say that there is no life out there is absurd. Just because we havent encountered any life yet mean nothing. The universe is just to *** BIG. We may never encounter life out there, but thats no reason to say there is no life.  Infact, the odds are very much against the notion of there being no life in universe besides earth, very much against. There is probaly no intelligent life in this galaxy, but remember, there are billions and billions and billions and billions of othere galaxy's out there.

True, but what are the odds of life arising and existing at the same time? There is the chance of mass extinction either through war, disease, comet/asteroid impact etc. Consider all the evolutionary "accidents" which occurred on earth that allowed mammals and eventually humans to evolve. What are the chances that this will happen in parallel with another planet? I am not disputing that life can or even does exist on other planets but there is no credible evidence to suggest that all life must exist at the same time. So, for now, we could be the only life in the Universe.

[prometheus]

Good point. The universe is about 13,6 billion years old and we have only been sending radiosignals in space (radio and tv broadcasts) for about 60 years.

[arensky]

However, other life on other planets could have evolved with a different chemical construction due to a different environment.

Yes, the methane breathers of Uranus...

[mycrabface]

God doesn`t exist.

-The Mephisto

He does. When God destroys the world, then you will know. The reason why He hasn't come is that He is merciful and is giving you a chance to believe.

[pianolearner]

He does. When God destroys the world, then you will know. The reason why He hasn't come is that He is merciful and is giving you a chance to believe.

Did "God" make life on other planets or only on Earth?

[m1469]

In all honesty, it is much more difficult for me to fathom there not being life somewhere else in the universe than for me to imagine there is.


m1469 

[arensky]

In all honesty, it is much more difficult for me to fathom there not being life somewhere else in the universe than for me to imagine there is.


m1469 

Yes, I feel the same way about this. 

[m1469]

Yes, I feel the same way about this. 

So, Mr Arensky, we finally agree on something  

[musik_man]

If life existed on another planet, the odds that they would find us or us them are so infintessimally small, that we can't know.  Moot question.

[crazy for ivan moravec]

God doesn`t exist.

-The Mephisto

Mephisto, if you don't believe in His existence, why bother to say He doesn't exist? you actually give me the impression that you believe in His existence much much more than i do because it takes a lot of faith and belief in His existence just to be able to contradict His existence.


anyway, back to the topic. i believe in ETs. our concept of life is not the only "life" there is. just like everyone else would say here, we know so little about them. so do they probably know so little of us, i can even doubt them believing/knowing we have life here on earth... the universe is so big!

[contrapunctus]

God doesn`t exist.

-The Mephisto

I think you are forgetting that Mephisto means "devil" or perhaps the Devil's helper. If the Devil exists then God does too.

[lisztisforkids]

I think you are forgetting that Mephisto means "devil" or perhaps the Devil's helper. If the Devil exists then God does too.

Hmm.. Well, would the devil reveal the exstince of God?

[arensky]

Hmm.. Well, would the devil reveal the exstince of God?

Of course! Without good there can be no evil and vice versa. Their mutual existences reveal each other. Neither one can exists without the other. Well, good and evil anyway. I will not be dragged into the God thing.

[crazy for ivan moravec]

Hmm.. Well, would the devil reveal the exstince of God?

if one believes in the devil, all the more that there should be no reason to doubt God's existence. in the first place, He made him. secondly, what evidence is there for both? -faith. for some, even reason too.

what is proof of the devil? -evil. Proof of God? -goodness.

what is desirable, evil or goodness? which of the two is good for our faith?

sorry for the discussion of another topic

[prometheus]

Don't christians claim that the devil's goal is to make people not believe in him (the devil), so they won't need God?

[rc]

I was surprised by the movie Constantine. They did a really good job with the devil, I like how there was tar on his feet.

[Bob]

I lean toward believing there must be something else alive out there somewhere.  It might be intelligent or it could just be microscopic.

I buy the time idea, that things may come and go and not be alive at the same time.

I wouldn't be suprised if the "rules" of the universe create life when all the ingredients are in place and things happen in a certain order.  Get the planet spinning around the right sun with the right materials, take the primordial soup and zap it with lightning, cells form, etc...  I remember something about the sun having to be just the right size -- not too big, not too small -- the planet having to have the right materials on it, having the solar system sitting in the right place so it doesn't get hit by other objects moving around, and having plenty of time...  then things settle down and happen in a certain order, reacting...  I wouldn't be surprised if life in other place was fairly similiar to what we have.

If if we represent something "typical" then maybe there are other worlds out there that are roughly as developed as we are and are  in the same situation -- roughly the same stage of progress.

I read something about the possibility of there still being life on Mars in the ice, or possibly in fossils.  Microscopic things.    And then there's Europa.  Wouldn't it be interesting if they found microbes in our own solar system, live or fossil?

[pianolearner]

I lean toward believing there must be something else alive out there somewhere.  It might be intelligent or it could just be microscopic.

I buy the time idea, that things may come and go and not be alive at the same time.

I wouldn't be suprised if the "rules" of the universe create life when all the ingredients are in place and things happen in a certain order.  Get the planet spinning around the right sun with the right materials, take the primordial soup and zap it with lightning, cells form, etc...  I remember something about the sun having to be just the right size -- not too big, not too small -- the planet having to have the right materials on it, having the solar system sitting in the right place so it doesn't get hit by other objects moving around, and having plenty of time...  then things settle down and happen in a certain order, reacting...  I wouldn't be surprised if life in other place was fairly similiar to what we have.

If if we represent something "typical" then maybe there are other worlds out there that are roughly as developed as we are and are  in the same situation -- roughly the same stage of progress.

I read something about the possibility of there still being life on Mars in the ice, or possibly in fossils.  Microscopic things.    And then there's Europa.  Wouldn't it be interesting if they found microbes in our own solar system, live or fossil?

Bob,

It's interesting trying to imagine what type of life may be out there. I saw an interview with Arthur C. Clarke and he said something like this: "If a group of intelligent fish tried to imagine what they would discover if they explored the surface world, would they have thought of fire?"

If we go back in time about 3.5 billion years there was only 1 living cell on earth, the first one. It was fortunate enough to survive long enough to divide into 2, then 4 and so on (including mutations) until we arrive at where we are today.

Imagine if 3.5 billion years ago a group of intelligent cells got together and discussed the possibility of life existing elsewhere on earth. They would probably say the things like "There must be life elsewhere, we can't be the only ones on a huge place like this". Would any of the cells actually say, "We are the only life and one day we will evolve and walk on the moon".?

Life had to start somewhere and when it did, wherever it did, it would have been the only life in the Universe. The Universe may be teeming with life now, but there is no way that anyone can convince or even persuade me to believe that it all started at the same time. If you agree with this then there is no reasonable argument against the case that earth IS the place where life started first. In 5 billion years time there will be life all over the Universe but it would have originated from earth. Future generations will not ask the question "Is there life elsewhere in the Universe?" just like nobody today asks "Is there life elsewhere on Earth?"

[Bob]

Interesting.  How do we know it all comes from one place?  I had the idea that forming cells was just something that happened if all the conditions are right.  So life could start all over rather than just one place.

[pianolearner]

Interesting.  How do we know it all comes from one place?  I had the idea that forming cells was just something that happened if all the conditions are right.  So life could start all over rather than just one place.

The "building blocks" are everywhere but the process that converts them from non-living to living is unknown.

“The short answer is we don’t really know how life originated on this planet.”

Taken from this article.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/origins/knoll.html

This is another interesting article.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1142840.stm


I want to point out that from the beginning I have said that my opinion is mixed. I certainly don't subscribe to the theory that there must be life elsewhere simply because there are billions of galaxies with billions of stars. There is no logic in this argument.

[arensky]

Yes I believe in ET's....         

[pianistimo]

arensky, you're too funny.  i can't stop laughing.

[mycrabface]

Did "God" make life on other planets or only on Earth?

Why don't you try reading the bible?

[mycrabface]

Don't christians claim that the devil's goal is to make people not believe in him (the devil), so they won't need God?

Yes. Of course its written in the bible, if not where would we get our info from? And is the bible a fake? no.

[silvaone]

I dont think that anybody here has mentioned this yet.

The universe is HUGE. To paraphrase Carl Sagan, there are billions and billions and billions of galaxy's out there with trillions and trillions of stars. To say that there is no life out there is absurd. Just because we havent encountered any life yet mean nothing. The universe is just to *** BIG. We may never encounter life out there, but thats no reason to say there is no life.  Infact, the odds are very much against the notion of there being no life in universe besides earth, very much against. There is probaly no intelligent life in this galaxy, but remember, there are billions and billions and billions and billions of othere galaxy's out there.

I agree completely..... I like to think of this comparison.... have you ever seen a million dollars/pounds in cash? no??? but that doesn' mean it doesn't exist....

Anyone here ever read anything by Eric Von Daniken? Ive read a few of his books and even though he may exaggerate some things he has some interesting points to put forward.... and osme very convincing evidence...

- Silva

[pianolearner]

Why don't you try reading the bible?

Did this man deserve to die?

Giordano Bruno (1548-1600)


In Cena de le Ceneri, Bruno defended the heliocentric theory of Copernicus . It appears that he did not understand astronomy very well, for his theory is confused on several points.

In De l'Infinito , Universo e Mondi, he argued that the universe was infinite, that it contained an infinite number of worlds, and that these are all inhabited by intelligent beings.

Wherever he went, Bruno's passionate utterings led to opposition. During his English period he outraged the Oxford faculty in a lecture at the university; upon his return to France, in 1585, he got into a violent quarrel about a scientific instrument. He fled Paris for Germany in 1586, where he lived in Wittenberg, Prague, Helmstedt, and Frankfurt. As he had in France and England, he lived off the munificence of patrons, whom after some time he invariably outraged. In 1591 he accepted an invitation to live in Venice. Here he was arrested by the Inquisition and tried. After he had recanted, Bruno was sent to Rome, in 1592, for another trial. For eight years he was kept imprisoned and interrogated periodically. When, in the end, he refused to recant, he was declared a heretic and burned at the stake.

[pianolearner]

I agree completely..... I like to think of this comparison.... have you ever seen a million dollars/pounds in cash? no??? but that doesn' mean it doesn't exist....

Anyone here ever read anything by Eric Von Daniken? Ive read a few of his books and even though he may exaggerate some things he has some interesting points to put forward.... and osme very convincing evidence...

- Silva

Until someone can do the impossible and give me the exact odds of life arising on a planet I won’t be convinced by the big Universe theory.

There are billions of galaxies with billions of stars. But, how many are habitable? What good are all these galaxies if the odds of life are only 1 in a trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion etc

[silvaone]

well if no one can provide a probability number for you then no can provide a probability against the same idea/topic/thing (sorry, bad english) - But as an earlier post said.... just because we have evolved/been created the way we are on this planet, it doesnt mean that all planets elsewhere have to have the same environment..... adaptation = evolution and vice versa....

- Silva

p.s. you might want to read this article.... very interesting.... even for a 75% athiest such as myself

https://www.fullmoon.nu/articles/art.php?id=tal

it raises alot of interesting points.....

please read with an open mind

[stealsoul]

Missing option "I don't know".

[BoliverAllmon]

God doesn`t exist.

-The Mephisto

wanna bet?

[stealsoul]

God doesn`t exist.

-The Mephisto

Wanna bet?

I'm not Mephisto, I don't care if god exists or not.
It is just a boring question that you can do nothing with.. who cares if god exists or not? 
Just enjoy life and see it however you want.

The only thing I have interest in when it comes to god is (if it exists at all) HOW he did it.

Many catholics go to church and confess. I think confessing is one of the absurdest things ever. I think you are responsible for your own actions, and _nothing_ can heal them.




 

[crazy for ivan moravec]

I'm not Mephisto, I don't care if god exists or not.
It is just a boring question that you can do nothing with.. who cares if god exists or not? 
Just enjoy life and see it however you want.

if you don't care, please don't comment on it. oh, and who cares if God exists or not?! -a lot of people, the great minds too, i tell you.

The only thing I have interest in when it comes to god is (if it exists at all) HOW he did it.

for your information, it's called the mystery. it's something greater than Sherlock Holmes' mysteries, you'll go crazy thinking about it. it's also called faith, if you have it.

Many catholics go to church and confess. I think confessing is one of the absurdest things ever. I think you are responsible for your own actions, and _nothing_ can heal them.

it's absurd for you, definitely not for catholics. sigh, you must be a closed minded person.

look, whatever your church is (if you have one), DO NOT EVEN ATTEMPT TO HIT ANY OF THE OTHER CHURCHES' PRACTICES.

SO WHAT? haha, SO WHAT??! not even you should care, so don't criticize confession co z you don't know anything about it. and i don't wanna be informed of your own beliefs coz judging from your nerve to say something about our practice, i might laugh.

good day!

[crazy for ivan moravec]

..

[stealsoul]

I'm not Mephisto, I don't care if god exists or not.
It is just a boring question that you can do nothing with.. who cares if god exists or not?
Just enjoy life and see it however you want.


if you don't care, please don't comment on it. oh, and who cares if God exists or not?! -a lot of people, the great minds too, i tell you.

I'm a member just like anyone else, and I don't see why I can't comment posts. I'm just giving information and thoughts.

it's absurd for you, definitely not for catholics. sigh, you must be a closed minded person.

look, whatever your church is (if you have one), DO NOT EVEN ATTEMPT TO HIT ANY OF THE OTHER CHURCHES' PRACTICES.

I'm close minded because I think it's absurd? THINK FOR A SECOND ~!
Yes, ofcourse it isn't absurd for catholics, but should I change my opinion on it because of that? I think not!

Just because I think something is absurd, doesn't mean I don't know about it. I'm very well informed about it.

SO WHAT? haha, SO WHAT??! not even you should care, so don't criticize confession co z you don't know anything about it. and i don't wanna be informed of your own beliefs coz judging from your nerve to say something about our practice, i might laugh.

You must be close minded because you don't want to know anything about other beliefs. Luckly for you, I quit church and don't have a religion anymore.

What makes you think I don't know anything about confession? What makes you think I don't know or don't want to know anything about it?