which race is intrinsically superior?

[stevie]

this isnt a controversial poll at all, i am not making this to provoke controversy, just a civilised racial MASS DEBATE.

we are all brothers and sisters, let us all unite and be as one, except ******s.

[kony]

go Maoris!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stevie]

go Maoris!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

correctly

[prometheus]

I think this time you may succeed.

[douxtigress]

correctly

I've actually met this man, and had about a 15 minute conversation with him... it was a few years ago when I was living in AZ... and it was during the summer at Lake Pleasant, he was vacationing there had his yacht the whole bit... and we're right next to his table having some drinks at the marina and my mom says 'go talk to him' and I said 'what? who is he?' and she says 'thats mike tyson you moron, the boxer that bit that guys ear off' haha... so I did, went up, introduced myself, he shook my hand and we talked. Of course I ended up stopping the conversation because then about 12318263 people realized who I was talking to and came over to ask him for autographs, haha. It was quite interesting.

And since we're talking about race here... where is the 'Aryan' section? Hitler loved 'em blonde hair & blue eyed... haha.

[johnny-boy]

The human race is superior to Martians.

John

[gilad]

i met the man who had his ear bit off by mike, wow what a small world .
but make no mistake he's no lesser of a man without his ear bit, he's positively a monster!

[donjuan]

I was tempted to vote 'indian' just because I love the food so much.... but 

I voted 'white', just because historically, they were so quick on their feet to make themselves boss.  China could have taken over the world long ago, but they blew it.

[Siberian Husky]

holy *** racism batman..anonymous polls are awesome ways to bring out the bigotry in the best of us..racist fucks...WEEEEEEEEEEEE WHITE POWER!

[donjuan]

actually stevie, can you expand 'white' to a few categories?  Now I want to vote for 'Swedish' because IKEA is so awesome!  and of course Nils.

there you go! two reasons for the swedes!  Not to mention how hot swedish women are.

[Siberian Husky]

and actually could you also extract 'white trash' from the white section because i love me those overalls..best invention EVAR!

[Kassaa]

I am not going to vote for this poll. This is so wrong in so many ways :\ .

[jre58591]

oh, so now my race is included as "other"? ill let you guess what my nationality is.

[johnny-boy]

I am not going to vote for this poll. This is so wrong in so many ways :\ .

I'm also not going to vote. Jeez, they don't even have the  Vulcans and Klingons  on the list.

John

[tac-tics]

Your question is malformed. By what means does one judge "intrinsic superiority?"

I took a course last semester that (unfortunately) boiled down to how western cultures have abused science to try to answer this fact. It makes me sick to my stomache to think people think the world is so easily reduced to a game of good and bad. While it is inevitable that certain strains have tendencies to perform marginally better at certain feats, the extent to which we can accurely measure such things is nil. We have a better understanding of the atomic nature of our universe than we do the massively complex workings of high-level human-born notions such as "intelligence" and "ability." So any scientist claiming to have proof of any sort of superiority better well have a Ph.D. in neural biology to be taken seriously.... and even then, it's questionable.

[cfortunato]

Which race is superior?

The Kentucky Derby, no question about it.

[gilad]

oh, so now my race is included as "other"? ill let you guess what my nationality is.

hmm lets see, i sense you are mexican and that you have some native american blood in you.

[jre58591]

hmm lets see, i sense you are mexican and that you have some native american blood in you.

darn, i forgot i posted that somewhere.

[notturno]

The Great Old Ones.

Puny humans, your days are numbered.  Cthuhlu ftaghn!

[lisztisforkids]

I vote for the bushpeoples of africa.

[bearzinthehood]

Actually Persians are Aryan and white.  Not so hilariously, they are even Hitler approved.

[Barbosa-piano]

          I believe that a race is not superior, it was just lucky to be on the right place, at the right time, under the right conditions. Example: The peoples of France, Germany, and Britain- These countries are seen involved in every major affair of the modern age, historically, and they will most likely always be. The Japanese people has for the most part of the history had one of the world's highest standards of living, and are known for their meticulous organization and planning. The Portuguese and the Spanish have conquered many lands abroad, and would fit into the white or caucasian race. Caucasians have supposedly originated in the caucasian mountain region of Russia, but Russia was underdeveloped for centuries, until the efforts of great kings and the people.
            A race is not superior, just more developed. The Muslims taught us many things we did not know, especially on oceanic navigation and exploration, Mathmatics, and other subjects.
            Even though Africa is very underdeveloped and poor, it was home to one of the world's greatest civilizations, at Egypt. The same goes for the Chinese.
            Now if you ask, which race has uninterruptedly evolved and shaped the world, I would say whites and the japanese- Europe learned much from the rest of the world, being a crossroads, and is full of resources. The japanese developed their own religious process, which has proven to be successful. We are all equal under god, with equal abilities. 

          This is my thinking. You have to grow on the right conditions to be developed with time. We must remember, that in a few countries in Eastern Europe, the people of the white race are as developed as people in third world countries.
           I think all this is explained by one of the most peculiar divisions ever, North and South Korea. It was as if the rest of the world was doing tests with two petri dishes. One, communist, other, a democracy. North Korea faces horribly harsh conditions, and the South Koreans are highly developed. I see it as a test. Two countries constituted of the same race, but under different conditions. Some races just did not get the chance to experience change.
           I am white, but I think that nowdays any race can evolve if we put the effort into the plan- It is about the world we live in, not an specific group. Could you imagine how much we could have accomplished, innovated, and modernized if every race in the world had an education as good as Norway's (supposedly the best)- I mean, there could be many minds contributing to the greater development of our world.
   
       Mario Barbosa

[steve jones]

Which race is the best?

Liverpudlians ofcourse. Followed closely by us Brummies...

SJ

[rimv2]

          I believe that a race is not superior, it was just lucky to be on the right place, at the right time, under the right conditions. Example: The peoples of France, Germany, and Britain- These countries are seen involved in every major affair of the modern age, historically, and they will most likely always be. The Japanese people has for the most part of the history had one of the world's highest standards of living, and are known for their meticulous organization and planning. The Portuguese and the Spanish have conquered many lands abroad, and would fit into the white or caucasian race. Caucasians have supposedly originated in the caucasian mountain region of Russia, but Russia was underdeveloped for centuries, until the efforts of great kings and the people.
            A race is not superior, just more developed. The Muslims taught us many things we did not know, especially on oceanic navigation and exploration, Mathmatics, and other subjects.
            Even though Africa is very underdeveloped and poor, it was home to one of the world's greatest civilizations, at Egypt. The same goes for the Chinese.
            Now if you ask, which race has uninterruptedly evolved and shaped the world, I would say whites and the japanese- Europe learned much from the rest of the world, being a crossroads, and is full of resources. The japanese developed their own religious process, which has proven to be successful. We are all equal under god, with equal abilities. 

          This is my thinking. You have to grow on the right conditions to be developed with time. We must remember, that in a few countries in Eastern Europe, the people of the white race are as developed as people in third world countries.
           I think all this is explained by one of the most peculiar divisions ever, North and South Korea. It was as if the rest of the world was doing tests with two petri dishes. One, communist, other, a democracy. North Korea faces horribly harsh conditions, and the South Koreans are highly developed. I see it as a test. Two countries constituted of the same race, but under different conditions. Some races just did not get the chance to experience change.
           I am white, but I think that nowdays any race can evolve if we put the effort into the plan- It is about the world we live in, not an specific group. Could you imagine how much we could have accomplished, innovated, and modernized if every race in the world had an education as good as Norway's (supposedly the best)- I mean, there could be many minds contributing to the greater development of our world.
   
       Mario Barbosa

Race doesnt exists.

Only color and place of origin exist.

Any Jewish Italian or Black Puerto Rican can tell you.

If that aint enough for you read any credible scientific journal

holy *** racism batman..anonymous polls are awesome ways to bring out the bigotry in the best of us..racist fucks...WEEEEEEEEEEEE WHITE POWER!

You'd be surprized at how many people actually have an itchy niggar finger.

[contrapunctus]

Race does absolutely exist. Your race is determined where your ancestors evolved on the planet. 

There are actually just three major races: white, black, and oriental. However, there are many sub ethnic groups.

There are many different things besides the color of skin: e.x., body size and body part size, etc.

Racial advantages are from what attributes your anscestors needed to survive in there part of the world.

 

[steve jones]

Iv heard it said (by allegedly credible scientists) that the differentiation in humans goes way beyond mere race - closer to species! Not a very politically correct attitude, and not one that I share. But never the less, an curious idea. I mean, as a white British male, I have about as much in common with a masai tribesman as I do with my pet hampters (no penis jokes please  ).

Are the human 'races' closer to subspecies?

I forget who it was that talking about this, some BBC 2 program about genetics  Twas very interesting though, quite thought provoking.

SJ

[steveie986]

Iv heard it said (by allegedly credible scientists) that the differentiation in humans goes way beyond mere race - closer to species! Not a very politically correct attitude, and not one that I share. But never the less, an curious idea. I mean, as a white British male, I have about as much in common with a masai tribesman as I do with my pet hampters (no penis jokes please  ).

Are the human 'races' closer to subspecies?

I forget who it was that talking about this, some BBC 2 program about genetics  Twas very interesting though, quite thought provoking.

SJ

I don't think you should trust British TV (you know, all those paranormal shows, Uri Gellar, etc...) Do you also find mental spoon-bending "thought provoking?"

Mainstream biology and anthropology has, for the most part, rejected the concept of "race" in favor of "cline," which is simply gradual change of phenotypes over a geographic area. This subspecies idea is profoundly flawed. Several fringe biologist attempt to research these so-called "racial differences" (J. Philippe Rushton, in particular), but they have been roundly criticized and refuted by mainsteam work.

Invariably, discussions about racial differences lead to arguments about race and intelligence. Racial differences in intelligence is hardly a settled issue and an active area of research that is, needless to say, full of excitement and controversy. Regardless, the idea of race as subspecies or fixed Platonic categories is very wrong.

[jas]

I voted 'white', just because historically, they were so quick on their feet to make themselves boss. 

How in any way could that be considered a good thing?

[prometheus]

There are no human races. The genetic variation in humans is very very small.

The only thing Contrapunctus 'races' have in common are things like skin colour. The amount of genetic variation in those ethnic groups is just as large as the variation inbetween these three groups.

Subspecies? That is absolutely insane. The human gene pool has been mapped and the variation is very very small for one species. I mean, it is utter nuts to claim that a 'white' and a 'black' person can't produce fertile children. Even more because those children will actually be more fertile, more beautiful and more healthy.

Maybe you have as much in common with a Masai tribes as with your hamster in overal. But genetically you have as much in common with a Masia tribesman as with your average neighbor.

Just look at an example. People from Ethiopia dominante the 10 kilometer runs. The people from Kenia dominate the marathon. People from Jamaica dominate the 100 meter sprint. There is no corrolation between the genetics that give these people an advantage and their skin colour.

I am not trying to argue with Contrapunctus because he has proven himself too reterded many times in the past but I do want to inform everyone else who is reading this.


As for the domination of the people from western europe. They only dominated for a small time span in history. Four hundred years is a very short time. Plus, the reason they do has got nothing to do with generics.


All these things have nothing to do with being political correct. The human species is just very young. There was never any time for races to develop. And now we are interbreeding again so the human gene pool will become less segregated. So there won't be any human races anytime soon either.

[gyzzzmo]

Its a stupid question.
For example: US is mainly white, and technological most(?) advanced. Though somehow the biggest idiots managed to come into its government and its war-aholic policy lets me think about a bunch of Neanderthalers.

Bet this reply leads to discussion 

[prometheus]

And they apperently want to use tactical nuclear weapons.

I mean, that scared the hell out of the people here in Europe. But that's a different issue altogether. The fact that this happens also has nothing to do with ethnicity.

[lilypiano]

I think Asians are usually very smart.  so are Indians

[gilad]

those "Races" that have dominated and made themselves superior to others are those races and nations that have exercised their greed over others, and committed many attrocities in the name of there superiority. a big generalisation, but i stick to it.

[prometheus]

Any entity of power commits atrocities equal to it's power.

It's not a generalisation. It is a historical fact.

[steve jones]

Subspecies? That is absolutely insane. The human gene pool has been mapped and the variation is very very small for one species. I mean, it is utter nuts to claim that a 'white' and a 'black' person can't produce fertile children. Even more because those children will actually be more fertile, more beautiful and more healthy.

Maybe you have as much in common with a Masai tribes as with your hamster in overal. But genetically you have as much in common with a Masia tribesman as with your average neighbor.

Hey, my hampster and I share many things - hair colour, taste in music.... 

Seriously though, you are probably right. I cant remember the series now, but it was on of those late night BBC2 science programs. The guy was discussing how we have been ushered away from the notion of their being 'different' races by political agenda, and how it is only now that scientists are beginning to adopt this line of though once again.

Personally, I dont believe we are subspecies, but I do believe in races. The idea that we are all of one and that its mere skin tone that differentiates us, does not grab me at all.

SJ

PS. I dont have a hampster btw. But if I did, his name would certainly be Prometheus.

[steve jones]

those "Races" that have dominated and made themselves superior to others are those races and nations that have exercised their greed over others, and committed many attrocities in the name of there superiority. a big generalisation, but i stick to it.

Is it not in the nature of the beast for human 'tribes' to want power over others? This happens every day in our own communities (be it on a far smaller scale). Every time your arsehole neighbour flashes you his new car, or makes a comment about how much better his daughter is at school than yours... he is staking claim to status over you. Its a dominant gesture.

And as with many things - what occurs in a small, simple model will be sustaining on a far grander scale. If one man feels the need to impose his status on another, then one tribe will do the same and impose its status on another. And that can continue right the way up.

Lets also not forget that this isnt restricted to racial denominations. History, if we are to trust it, teaches us that it is more often a matter of rich vs poor, power vs no power, than it is black vs white etc. Just look at how modern dictators (in Africa for example!) treat their people.

I dont try to justify this by the comments in this post. I think its terrible that we cant all just share and get along. But unfortnately that isnt human nature. We need to be real and smell the roses. We are sheltered from a lot of nastiness in our modern life, and sometime we need to remember that we are just as responsible as anyone.

SJ

[jas]

I think Asians are usually very smart.  so are Indians

While I'm not saying that Asians or Indians are stupid, that's a bit of a sweeping generalisation. There are people of varying degrees of intelligence (and stupidity) everywhere.

Jas

[steve jones]

I think that is just a cultural difference. The Indians in my community have a far greater work ethic than the majority of whites.

SJ

[steveie986]

It must really suck being an unathletic African or a stupid Oriental or a poor Jew or a sexually inept Italian or a lazy German or a lowbrowed Frenchman or an intelligent Pole or a modest Englishman or an ill-mannered Japanese or a jolly Russian.

I wonder how many of the above actually exist? More than you'd expect.

[steve jones]

I once knew a black, white man. Or was that the other way around? 

SJ

[pianorama]

I hope this doesn't offend any Maorians out there but....

What is a Maori? Where do they come from? Until now, I have never heard of the Maori race.

[steve jones]

They are the native people of Newzealand if Im not very much mistaken.

SJ

[gorbee natcase]

Cardassian/ Vulcan/klingon

[Tash]

caucasian-asians- they're smart and good-looking, and eat good food

maori's are the bomb, omg hangi's YUM cooking food in the earth is the only way to cook!

[steveie986]

I think people of mixed descent are intrinsically superior. They are the Tiger Woods, Kristin Kreuks, Bruce Lees, and Tyson Beckfords of the world.

Biology seems to reward genetic mixing as most positively beneficial (as opposed to incest). Eurasians (half-European, half-East Asian), in particular, are particularly intelligent and physically attractive, although the former might be simply because they are raised in more cosmopolitan families.

[anekdote]

Race does certainly exist. But mainstream science today (with a political agenda) denies this fact (and ignores the principles of biological evolution).

Where do I begin...

Today mainstream scientists adhere to the "clinal" model of race. The clinal model holds that phenotypic changes (physical appearance and facial feature changes) are the result of adaptation to particular climates. Generally they divide "clines" into categories such as tropical, temperate, arctic, etc.
     Yet there is a fallacy in this reasoning because the "races" do not correlate with this proposed geography. For example, one could walk on the steppe from Romania to Manchuria, where the climate is generally the same throughout. But the races along the way differ tremendously. To the west you have purely Caucasoid people and to the east you have purely Mongoloid people (East Asians). Other examples can be given for arctic and mountain regions also. Not all arctic people look the same. They can range from fair-skinned and blonde-haired, blue-eyed, sharp-featured Scandinavians and Lapps to swarthy and dark, flat-faced Inuit.
     Another problem with the clinal model deals with definition. By definition, a "race" (or species if you will) is a breeding population. After a period of isolation, the breeding population develops unique traits that distinguish it from other groups. These distinguishing racial traits are clearly seen by everyone. And regardless, saying race does not exist due to clinal continuums is similar to saying species do not exist because we have complete fossil continuity.

Some scientists today also assert another fallacy and say that there is more genetic diversity within races then between them. Genetic research by plenty of credible and highly respected biologists disagrees with this claim. Of note is the work of Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza, one of the premier and pioneering geneticists. In his book, The History and Geography of Human Genes, Cavalli-Sforza outlines "breeding populations" throughout the world and plots genetic distances between groups. Ironically enough, Cavalli-Sforza also repeats the no race mantra, which is contrary to his entire book. This is just to please the media and ensure that his funding doesn't dry up!

Race is a reality. There are five races -- Caucasoid (Caucasian, White), Mongoloid (East Asian, South-East Asian), Negroid (Black, Sub-Saharan Africa), Capoid (Kalahari Bushmen, Hottentots), and Australoid (Australian Aborigines). Each race characterizes some period of human evolution, and may also represent a period of human migration.
     There are physical differences between the races beyond skin color. Facial and nasal structure, jaw structure, prognathism, body proportions (arms, legs, torsos, even to hands and fingers), lung capacity, muscle build, body build, and even intelligence (but that is a nasty debate, so I don't want to go there).

The theory of evolution applies even to humans (yes, it is true). To think we could evolve from apes, spread around the world, remain geographically isolated for many thousands of years and STILL be "exactly the same under the skin", equal, etc., is false and contradicts nearly every law of biology.

Egalitarian politics has been of great hindrance to the study of human differences and diversity. Science must be objective and rigorous. It must not be tainted by political ideologies.

[anekdote]

Is it not in the nature of the beast for human 'tribes' to want power over others? This happens every day in our own communities (be it on a far smaller scale). Every time your arsehole neighbour flashes you his new car, or makes a comment about how much better his daughter is at school than yours... he is staking claim to status over you. Its a dominant gesture.

And as with many things - what occurs in a small, simple model will be sustaining on a far grander scale. If one man feels the need to impose his status on another, then one tribe will do the same and impose its status on another. And that can continue right the way up.

Lets also not forget that this isnt restricted to racial denominations. History, if we are to trust it, teaches us that it is more often a matter of rich vs poor, power vs no power, than it is black vs white etc. Just look at how modern dictators (in Africa for example!) treat their people.

I dont try to justify this by the comments in this post. I think its terrible that we cant all just share and get along. But unfortnately that isnt human nature. We need to be real and smell the roses. We are sheltered from a lot of nastiness in our modern life, and sometime we need to remember that we are just as responsible as anyone.

SJ

(First off, the problems Africa is having are not class problems but ethnic problems. Tutsi vs. Hutu for example. Congolese vs. pygmies, etc.)

Class conflict is a relatively minor phenomenon when compared to the global theme of ethnic strife. Pierre van den Berghe outlined a theory he dubbed "ethnic nepotism." The theory goes that people within an ethnic group favor other people in their own ethnic group -- their "kin" (real or imagined) -- over others. Because children receive roughly 50% of their DNA from each parent, to save two brothers or eight cousins is [genetically] the same as saving one's own life [genetic material]. Hence ethnic solidarity is really a group evolutionary strategy with the intended goal of ensuring the survival of a particular set of genes.

[prometheus]

Anekdote, no biologist denies these features. It is just that they are too minor to be talking about race. Furtermore, as I already said before, two people belonging to the same race often have as much genetic differences as two people belonging to a different race.

This has nothing to do with ignoring the principles of darwinistic evolution.


As for the problems in Africa. The main one is war. The Hutu and Tutsi conflict is just one of the wars in Africa. These people belong to the same race. The war in Sudan is both a religious one and an ethnic one. Another reason for war is the way the borders are drawn. African dictators are just imitating what they learned from the west. The reason wars are so bad is because they can now use western weapons. Another reason is because war causes faminine and the like, which is a reason to start another war. Africa is having class problems. Governments are deposed all the time and then the rebel becomes the new despot.

Sure, people favor their own ethnic group. But not only because of genetics. Plus, people are always forced into war by their leaders. The leaders no not have a genetic motive. It is just that the leader can use the ethnicity, the religion, the ideology, to force his people to wage a war for him.

[anekdote]

Forensic anthropologists can calculate a person's race and geographical heritage after only analyzing a small sample of DNA. I do not know the precise accuracy of such tests, but I do know that they are incredibly accurate.

A Black family living in sub-Saharan Africa will not randomly give birth to White children. This is because the races are homogeneous enough when it comes to genotype that all breeding within a race will produce offspring still identifiable as beloning to that particular race. Race is essentially a greatly extended family. As an example, I am a White person because my parents are White. My parents are White because they come from White families. I carry the traits of my parents, even beyond external physical traits. I carry similar predispositions to disease, similar personality, etc. The same applies to race. Breed two people of the same race and you will find that the children will be remarkably similar to the parents. This is how heredity works.

Race is unambiguous. If you see an Asian looking person, you would be correct in guessing they are from Eastern Asia. There is nothing ambiguous or arbitrary about racial definitions (phenotypic classifications mind you, not specifically genotypic).

Hence, race exists.

[prometheus]

Your first point is true though an albino african will have white skin.

As for genes. Yes, genology can be tracked down through genes. I have been told that it is possible to make a distinction between jewish arabs and non-jewish arabs. I have also heard a story about a very old corpse being found. The DNA of this ancient person was compared with the local people and it was very similar. The local people were the ancestors of the corpse found.

Small sample of DNA? All DNA samples are small. I can't see DNA, it's too small. A complete sample is needed when we are talking about identifying small differences.

People of all races have been born in all parts of the world. I mean if you take the average american you don't locate them in the US though they do live there.
Also, the native americans, what race are they? Aren't they 'asian'? Yet still they do not live in Asia. Same goes for the arabs in north africa. They didn't originally live there. And back to the US. All these people are out of place. Australia too.

In the end we all come from Africa. And there are many other paticularities. Populations have migrated,  fused, split, been annihilated, etc etc.

There are many many people today that have a totally mixed ethnicity. These people are increasing every day. There is nothing unambigious about them. Many of these people have parents that are also mixed. There are whole blood lines of 'pure' 'mixed' heritage.

This all has nothing to do with race. Eventhough there are genetic differences between people thoughout the world they are too small. In the process you decribe the forensic anthropologist only needs one unique gene to identify a person's heritage. That doesn't mean there is a big dispersion between different ethnicities.


Also, the average white person has a non-white ancestor. Those same forensic anthropologists can identify out of place genes that do not belong to the gene pool of people of the white ethnicity. You may have a african ancestor, a persian one, an arab one, a greek one, etc. And even if they do not find the particular gene needed to identify this ancestor you can still have one. It is very possible that the unique gene got lost somewhere along the way. Or that you don't have it but your brother has.