Searching for this Beethoven Sonata! Please help!

[Prodigy]

Hi, I'm new to the boards.

I'm trying to find the Beethoven Sonata that my old piano teacher played a tiny little bit from when suggesting a few pieces the last time I saw her.  I completely forget the name of it.  

I think I've got the full Beethoven Sonata works (3 thick volumes) so it should be in there somewhere.

Basically from what I can remember both hands were pretty close together and quite far down into the bass and playing fast large chords.  

Any ideas?

Cheers

[robert_henry]

It's probably the so-called Appassionata, which is a piece that is given too early to too many young pianists.  It is quite difficult, usually poorly played, and I think it is a lazy choice that most teachers make simply because it is popular.  No offence, but if you have to ask for the name of a sonata or go searching for it, you don't need to be playing it yet.  Ask for something easier so you might be successful in performing it.  Good luck either way.

Robert Henry

[Prodigy]

Thanks for the reply.  Don't think it was the Appassionata because we mentioned that one beforehand and dismissed it as I didn't really fancy it to be honest.

At the moment my two main Beethoven Sonatas are fairly easy - Pathetique and Moonlight.

My favourite and most proud acomplishment has to be Rachmaninoff - Prelude in G minor.  Especially difficult as I've only got an octave reach, possibly octave + 1 at a push.

[eddie92099]

I think the sonata you are looking for is probably the Waldstein. Robert Henry, out of curiosity, what age do you think is appropriate to begin playing the Appassionata?
Ed

[Prodigy]

Just had a quick look at it and I think you're right!  The Waldstein it is!

How difficult is this sonata do you think?

Compared to say the moonlight?

[robert_henry]

It's not age that is really the issue.  It's the maturity level.  Most students are given this piece and they can't even count correctly yet, or keep a steady tempo, and these are basics.  There are too many new techniques introduced within this piece for the average student to handle, and they end up hacking the music to death because of these difficulties.  How many times have you heard even the first phrase played in correct time?  Think about the masterclasses in which you've seen this piece performed.  How many of the clinicians could spend the entire time on the first page, even the first line of music, all the while simply teaching them how to count?  It is only assigned because of its familiarity, not its pedgogical possibilities.  It is being assigned out of tradition.  I'm all for challenging the student, but within reason.  

Obviously, this is my opinion and only that.  Feel free to disagree.

Robert Henry

[guven]

I agree with Robert on 'maturity level' issue .
Waldstein has too many finger techniques as he said.
If you're insist on playing this sonata, well..good luck !

[dinosaurtales]

uh oh.  I am working on the Appassionata.  I am 47.  I've always said you're only young once but you can be immature all your life.  Should I maybe give up the Appassionata?  It seems to be going well......

[eddie92099]

I have just played the Appassionata (first movement) for auditions to the Royal Academy of Music and the Guildhall School of Music and Drama in London. When I mentioned to the head of piano at the Royal College of Music that I was considering it for auditions he said it was very dangerous, but I have also just won a competition with it so I think I play it well. I learnt the 3rd movement in the last couple of days too,
Ed

[dinosaurtales]

Ed we should *talk*.  So what does your teacher think of the Appassionata?  I spent quite a bit of time on the first movement just figuring out all the gory little technical details - they seemed to be everywhere.  My teacher doesn't want me to mess with the 3rd movement till the 1st movement is *done*.  But I have been (I lied).  and the 3rd seems to be coming together much more quickly.  She was telling me the 3rd would be the toughest - speed probably.  I am not sure at this point, but it's totally fun to work on!  I was actually thinking about using the whole sonata as audition material next year - but you've been told it's *dangerous*?  ew.  Remiscent of a band submitting Stars and Stripes for a contest, I suppose.

I'll have to bring this up with my teacher.  When you have auditioned has the first movement been enough? or do they want you to play all 3?  i wouldn't be auditioning for big-time schools like you are, but some of the university masters programs in Oregon and Washington.  I don't know how I'll stack up with young folk who actually studied this stuff as an undergrad though, but I've gotta try.

[eddie92099]

So what does your teacher think of the Appassionata?

Of my Appassionata or the sonata in general?

When you have auditioned has the first movement been enough? or do they want you to play all 3?  

Single movements have been fine. The three colleges for which I have auditioned (well two so far, last one on Monday) have the following audition requirements:

Royal College of Music: Three contrasting works, approx. 15 minutes

Royal Academy of Music: Programme of between 20 and 40 minutes

Guildhall School of Music and Drama: Three contrasting works

Ed

[guven]

uh oh.  I am working on the Appassionata.  I am 47.  I've always said you're only young once but you can be immature all your life.  Should I maybe give up the Appassionata?  It seems to be going well......

That was not about the age which I mentioned with 'maturity' . I think, it is dangerous to play one of Grosse Sonatas without playing Beth's 1 maniere works first . What I mean is , Appassionata is not a good start for the first Beethoven Sonata .

[guven]

I have just played the Appassionata (first movement) for auditions to the Royal Academy of Music and the Guildhall School of Music and Drama in London. When I mentioned to the head of piano at the Royal College of Music that I was considering it for auditions he said it was very dangerous, but I have also just won a competition with it so I think I play it well. I learnt the 3rd movement in the last couple of days too,
Ed

Congrats at first , but I believe you will play different when you play this sonata later , like in 40's or 50's
You played it for a school audition and in a competition, so they appreciated it as a young pianist's performing .

[guven]

Just had a quick look at it and I think you're right!  The Waldstein it is!

How difficult is this sonata do you think?

Compared to say the moonlight?

It depends on your background about the repertoire.
Which else Beethoven sonatas have you played so far ?

[eddie92099]

Congrats at first , but I believe you will play different when you play this sonata later , like in 40's or 50's
You played it for a school audition and in a competition, so they appreciated it as a young pianist's performing .

I hope I will play all my repertoire differently when I'm in my 40s and 50s. This is not to say that a 17 year old's Appassionata is not a valid interpretation,
Ed

[guven]

I hope I will play all my repertoire differently when I'm in my 40s and 50s. This is not to say that a 17 year old's Appassionata is not a valid interpretation,
Ed

Didn't say anything like a young pianists Appassionata wouldn't be valid or anything . I have a 18 y/o student and she plays that sonata better than me imo . But that doesn't mean she knows Beethoven better than Alfred Brendel .

I was trying to say something else above ...

[Prodigy]

It depends on your background about the repertoire.
Which else Beethoven sonatas have you played so far ?

Just the Moonlight and the Pathetique.

[guven]

Oh, Pathetique is one of the Grosse Sonates.
-Tempest would be cool for you-
If you make a decide on Waldstein, good luck

[BoliverAllmon]

This is what my teacher said about Beethoven's Sonatas.

She says that most beethoven sonatas are for a senior recital or even later in schooling. Most people either butcher these sonatas to death or they have to spend an entirely too much time to learn it. We are going to learn a much easier sonata but learn it very well starting next month.

boliver

[Beethoven87]

My advice is be very careful with the Waldstein.  I love it, and think it's a beautiful piece, but there are a thousand and one details all over the place that you simply don't notice and don't realize as difficult (believe me, I was cought by surprise) until you actually play the piece.  Perhaps I'm just really inexperienced (I've been playing for eleven years, but haven't been taking from the most challenging teacher, I don't think), but I think the Waldstein is extremely difficult.  The problem is that you must have absolute control over the keyboard and total undestanding of the dynamics to pull it off with the grace and beauty that it should convey.  So forgive me if I'm making it out as more than it should be, but If you're only beginning I'd think twice.

[BoliverAllmon]

I agree completely.

[Prodigy]

Thanks for the advice.  I've been playing for 14 years but as I'm only 19 I really don't think I'm experienced enough to attempt it (after thinking about it).

I'd rather polish my Moonlight and Pathetique sonatas up and I'm currently learning Liszt - Liebestraume although the cadenzas are proving a technical nightmare.

That should keep me going for now I guess.