The Sudan tragedy

[gilad]

I'm just curious how many other people are aware that a genocide is unfolding as we all get on with our daily lives.
I had heard something of it but i dont read or watch the news anymore.
the main thing that gets me is that the international community is doing seemingly little to prevent the worsening genocide.
this inaction is very sad, it has happened before that the world stood by while people were being slaughtered, and it is happening again now.
yes, just wondering if this issue is getting the media attention it deserves.

[pianistimo]

my son's highschool recently showed pictures of people getting slaughtered there.  i don't know if it was tv footage, but he said it was very graphic.  one girl suddenly had her legs chopped off.  why do people do this?

[gilad]

in rwanda it took as little as three months i think to kill 800000 innocent people.
how do these things keep happening?
and yes, violence in africa tends to be of a very graphic nature, i've seen some pretty nasty  footage in my life time.
what happened in rwanda was sanctioned by the government as is what is happening now in sudan.

[prometheus]

Well, it does get some attention. For example when my country, Holland, was asked to send a lot of troops to Afganistan, Uruzgan some political parties said that they would rather not go to be able to send troops to Darfur. Also, the UN representative in Sudan was a dutch guy.

As for calling it a genocide or not. I remember this was a point of debate in the UN. Some countries, I don't remember which ones, were angry because of the use of this world. It is probably hard to tell now if it is a genocide or not. But surely there are a lot of atrocities happening there. The reason that genocide is an issue is because it justified outside invasion.

Another issue is if we can do anything about it or not. We can't just send troops in there and solve the problem. There needs to be a basis for sending troops. Now there will be troops send, 12,000 to 20,000 UN troops and 7,000 African Union troops already there. Now these troops will probably not have a lot of western soldiers. Maybe non at all or maybe only as logistic support.

Now the mandate is also an issue. The problem is that the Sudan government is backing the militias that commit the atricities. The UN can't start a war against the Sudan government.

What happened in Rwanda and Congo was worse. And this happens with UN forces there. They did not have a mandate to do anything and they did not have support. The genicode there happened while the UN troops were forced to lock themselves up in their buildings.

Also, the genocide in Srebrenica was similar. Troops were there. They were not armed to stand up against the Servian army. Air support was requested but denied.

Another problem is that Sudan's neighbour Chad is also being drawn into the conflict.

[thalbergmad]

There has not been a large coverage in England, and I had sadly forgotten about it.

I guess the poor people will not get international help, as they have not got any oil.

[prometheus]

They do have some oil.

[thalbergmad]

Not enough to tempt the Americans possibly.

[jas]

Genocide? What's happening? I haven't seen a newspaper or the news in about a month..

[gilad]

https://www.genocidewatch.org/SudansChristianHolocaustFreeLanceStar25October2004.htm

this is a little article with some basic facts and i'm sure opinions.

The reason i thought about what is happening in sudan is because holocaust memorial day past not long ago and i am more sensitive now to these sort of happenings than usual.

on holocaust rememberance day jewish people and others too i'm sure say somthing to the effect of:

Never again shall the world turn a blind eye to the acts of human suffering and injustice. Never again shall a people's cries fall on deaf ears.

these are empty words i'm afraid, humanity fails once again to protect that which is precious-life.
as thalberg said there is nothing in it "but saving lives" for other countries, no oil etc.
oh well, enough being idealogical for one day.
i will not forget sudan(again) when i wake up tomorrow morning, or any other.

[BoliverAllmon]

Not enough to tempt the Americans possibly.

the government may not be doing anything about it, but there are many Americans who do.

boliver

[pianistimo]

perhaps the world is experiencing the 'birth pangs' of the tribulation.  there is a different spirit at work (it is as if satan IS truly cast down).  why else would people turn on their OWN KIND.  this is a manifestation of selfishness to the extreme.  i hope there is some way to transport the people out of there before it is too late.  the united nations shouldn't be looking the other way - but agreed that it is very difficult to go in as 'peacekeepers' with no weapons and expect them to listen. 

[BoliverAllmon]

that is why the UN is a joke

[prometheus]

It is either the UN or nothing at all.

Those that say the UN should be dismantled because it is too weak either want the US to replace the UN or they want total lawlessness and thus the right of the strong.

Rather than critisizing the UN for the fact that they need people to offer their support, I mean it's not like the UN can demand troops from its members, you should criticize those that sabotage the UN.

[BoliverAllmon]

It is either the UN or nothing at all.

Those that say the UN should be dismantled because it is too weak either want the US to replace the UN or they want total lawlessness and thus the right of the strong.

Rather than critisizing the UN for the fact that they need people to offer their support, I mean it's not like the UN can demand troops from its members, you should criticize those that sabotage the UN.

even with troops, they never get anything done. the structure of the UN is crap. with legislation requiring a unanimous vote nothing gets done.

boliver

[prometheus]

You mean they need to get rid of the vetos in the security council? I agree. Actually a majority of the US citizens agree also.

[BoliverAllmon]

yep, the veto power should go. I also think that the majority of the UN nations are too tenderfooted and more worried about political correctness versus doing what is right.

on a side note. I heard that the UN is going to start a global lottery to help raise money.

[prometheus]

Global lottery. Please no...

Actually my point was that the UN itself has no power. The UN cannot force its members to do things. You seem to suggest that the UN should only exist when it has actual power. In that case the UN would be a global government, an empire. No one wants that. Imagine voting for the world government. That would be bad and it will not happen.


So it is unfair to critisize the UN. The UN depends on the willingness of its members. Sure, UN people can make mistakes and be corrupt. But there is no solution. Either you make the UN the world government, you get rid of it or it depends on its members.

[BoliverAllmon]

I agree with what you said about the world govt. that would be bad.

[henrah]

I think I would make quite a good world leader.


"Osama, stop that now or you won't get any pudding! Bush, I told you to not play with your missiles until after tea, now go to your room! Tony Blair, stop farting about."

I can see the world getting better already ;D

[gilad]

haha, if you can get them to stop argueing about who started!

[henrah]

Yeah, that's the problem with having kids for leaders nowadays...it's like when someone punches you on the arm, you punch them back. Then they punch you back for punching them, and the viscious cycle begins. With nuclear missiles it won't last as long though, seeing as one 'punch' will be enough.
Henrah