Did Cziffra have weaknesses?

[instromp]

Just curious, since he was so amazing at playing piano, was he weak in any area of playing?

[pianiststrongbad]

His tone was very harsh.  I guess that is a personal preference though.

[lostinidlewonder]

What is the point in knowing his weakness? You would have to sit next to him and watch him play yourself, I doubt you would learn much doing that now though. A recording is not going to do it for you, nor a video recording of him they show you only a little window of what he wanted to show you.

He is afterall human and now and then he makes mistakes I have heard him miss notes and play inbetween notes in recordings if that is any measure of weakness (I don't think so). Who is to say not being able to play "perfectly" 100% of the time is a weakness though.

One could go so far to compare the data of his music with other masters, but that is rather superficial and pointless really. What are you going to find out?

I have heard many times from people who listened to him "Cziffra could never play louder without getting faster." I tend to agree because he does sometimes let the music play him, not the other way around. Still he's very fun to listen to.

[instromp]

What is the point in knowing his weakness? You would have to sit next to him and watch him play yourself, I doubt you would learn much doing that now though. A recording is not going to do it for you, nor a video recording of him they show you only a little window of what he wanted to show you.

He is afterall human and now and then he makes mistakes I have heard him miss notes and play inbetween notes in recordings if that is any measure of weakness (I don't think so). Who is to say not being able to play "perfectly" 100% of the time is a weakness though.

One could go so far to compare the data of his music with other masters, but that is rather superficial and pointless really. What are you going to find out?

I have heard many times from people who listened to him "Cziffra could never play louder without getting faster." I tend to agree because he does sometimes let the music play him, not the other way around. Still he's very fun to listen to.

What i was saying was that.Did her ever have had to struggle with a piece of music that maybe technically challenging(i highly doubt that since his technique was superb) was he very "strong" in this are but needed more practice on this because it wasnt as "strong" as the other... and yes i kno he's human, everything cant be perfect, and im not saying that not playing perfectly is a measure of weakness..i really wudnt care about the louder w/o faster part, he's simply amazing anyway.

[alejo_90]

He used to speed up the tempo of pieces that were already very fast. He did this with almost every Liszt piece.

[stevie]

these 'weaknesses' that have been put forward here, can also be viewed as strengths.

harsh tone? only when he wanted it to be harsh

speeding up? thats a bad thing? only to some peoples tastes

couldnt play louder without getting faster? NO, what is this?

[instromp]

these 'weaknesses' that have been put forward here, can also be viewed as strengths.

harsh tone? only when he wanted it to be harsh

speeding up? thats a bad thing? only to some peoples tastes

couldnt play louder without getting faster? NO, what is this?

Im confused, i dont view these are weaknesses, more like personal preference as said before.

[pianiststrongbad]

Well personally I think his tone was always harsh and sometimes could be very ugly, maybe I haven't listened to enough of his recordings though.  Anyways, yes it is a preference to not hear ugly tone in places, but I view it as a weakness.

[jas]

these 'weaknesses' that have been put forward here, can also be viewed as strengths.

harsh tone? only when he wanted it to be harsh

speeding up? thats a bad thing? only to some peoples tastes

couldnt play louder without getting faster? NO, what is this?

While I agree that these aren't necessarily weaknesses, he isn't perfect. You're very biased towards him.

[thracozaag]

Well personally I think his tone was always harsh and sometimes could be very ugly, maybe I haven't listened to enough of his recordings though. 

 If you admit you haven't heard enough of his recordings, why make the blanket statement that his tone "was always harsh"?

koji

[ronde_des_sylphes]

His tone was "always harsh"? Have you heard (to quote just two examples from many that I could choose) his Jeux d'eau (either Ravel or Liszt)? I'm going to get my ears tested.. On occasion, Cziffra could play with the most remarkable delicacy.

[pianiststrongbad]

Okay, since it seems everybody is critisizing my statement above, I've come back.  Anyways, when I said it was always harsh it was a overstatement that I apologize for.  As Koji stated I am making a rather blanket statement.  I was referring to when he plays forte, it is quite frequently harsh, not always.  In the cd set I own of him playing Liszt (pink box set- five cd's that is titled Works for piano in French) a bunch of the rhapsodies the bass is a bit overstated (it sounds as if he is just landing on the notes as fast and loud as possible) causing the sound to bleed a bit, maybe its just the recording equipment wasn't up to par.  The Trans Etudes also have a lot of this throughout.  I just relistened to the Sonata, which I hadn't listened to in a long time ago.  I'll agree in the softer parts it is very delicate.  In some of the more aggressive parts it seemed like he was hitting the keys as loud as he could.  I guess its one style of playing that I do not appreciate.  I'm not saying I don't enjoy a lot of his playing though- it is definately exciting.  This thread was afterall intended to discuss any weaknesses he might of had.  Mine was referring to tone production in the forte side of things.  Though maybe I just need to go get my ears tested as the previous poster suggested.

[prometheus]

Im confused, i dont view these are weaknesses, more like personal preference as said before.

So are almost also weaknesses. Personally I don't like his Liszt at all. He just doesn't play them that well, at least not to my taste. To he he seems he isn't intellectually 'above' the music. He has to work hard and use his technique. I rather hear playing someone who can play a piece. That's what Stevie says. Some people like this, Stevie probably, but he also recognises that some may prefer something else. And this is good; there should be many different kinds of pianists with different ways of playing the pieces.

But in terms of technique, I guess he could do most things after some practice. I am sure that the big Cziffra fans will know what kinds of passages are his strong points? Doesn't he have really strong trillers?

[thracozaag]

So are almost also weaknesses. Personally I don't like his Liszt at all. He just doesn't play them that well, at least not to my taste. To he he seems he isn't intellectually 'above' the music. He has to work hard and use his technique. I rather hear playing someone who can play a piece.

  Huh?

koji

[franz_]

Just curious, since he was so amazing at playing piano, was he weak in any area of playing?

If Cziffra would not have weaknesses, piano was just about technique. Everybody should learn 12 hours scales then. Of course he had weaknesses. Every pianist. Nobaody is perfect, and like Horowitz said: 'Perfection is imperfection.'

[instromp]

If Cziffra would not have weaknesses, piano was just about technique. Everybody should learn 12 hours scales then. Of course he had weaknesses. Every pianist. Nobaody is perfect, and like Horowitz said: 'Perfection is imperfection.'

Ahh i see ur point and taken well too.

[mephisto]

  Huh?

koji

Be honest: Do you actually think that Cziffra`s Liszt sonata is any good?

[stevie]

Be honest: Do you actually think that Cziffra`s Liszt sonata is any good?

yep, its actually underrated, but its not as good as it could have been if he had let loose more.

[donjuan]

To me he seems he isn't intellectually 'above' the music. He has to work hard and use his technique.

That's actually what I love about his playing!  I went to see Marc Andre Hamelin play Beethoven's 4th piano concerto, and I was so bored because it was all too easy for him; he just cruised along and played everything technically brilliantly, as he was certainly "intellectually above the music." 

Artur Rubinstein was a very smart man; he had excellent technique and a vast repertoire.  He must have found everything very easy, yet he puts himself inside the music and lives it, almost as if he was the composer. 

There are moments in Cziffra's playing that show me he was capable of similar things.  and I'll bet that if he wanted to, he could pull a hamelin and play boring and perfect, but Cziffra takes risks that need to be taken, such that taking the risk and failing is better than not taking it at all.

[prometheus]

  Huh?

koji

I didn't finished that scentence. I was looking for the right words, seems I got distracted. I mean to say "Play the piece so it sounds fluid and easy." And I mean this especially in the interpretation of a piece. I want to get the feeling that the pianist knows exactly what he is doing and that he does exactly what he wants.

[thracozaag]

I didn't finished that scentence. I was looking for the right words, seems I got distracted. I mean to say "Play the piece so it sounds fluid and easy." And I mean this especially in the interpretation of a piece. I want to get the feeling that the pianist knows exactly what he is doing and that he does exactly what he wants.

  Once again, I must say, "huh"?

koji

[thracozaag]

Be honest: Do you actually think that Cziffra`s Liszt sonata is any good?

  Honestly, I think a live rendition from Cziffra of the sonata would have been phenomenal.

koji

[henrah]

Honestly, I think a live rendition from Cziffra of the sonata would have been phenomenal.

koji

Might that be partly due to his 'aura' of personality and fame? I think that seeing his immensly proud facial expressions - whilst hearing and seeing his fingers work - in a live performance ranks it far, far higher than a recorded performance.

I've realised that in a live performance I can only enjoy the impressive fingerwork of a pianist, with enjoyment of the piece here and there; or enjoy the piece as a whole with my eyes closed.

[donjuan]

.... seeing his immensly proud facial expressions

[instromp]

Hahaha yeah, cant ever miss a vid w/o seeing that.

[stevie]

haha, more than a bit legendary

[steve jones]

What i was saying was that.Did her ever have had to struggle with a piece of music that maybe technically challenging(i highly doubt that since his technique was superb) was he very "strong" in this are but needed more practice on this because it wasnt as "strong" as the other... and yes i kno he's human, everything cant be perfect, and im not saying that not playing perfectly is a measure of weakness..i really wudnt care about the louder w/o faster part, he's simply amazing anyway.

I would imagine that he would have struggled just as much as every other pianist with technical issues. Dont forget - genius is 10% inspiration, 90% persperation!

And I certainly dont buy the notion that ANYONE get from the A to B without a struggle. The human body and mind would not have it any other way 

SJ