Pieces that are technically overrated

[journeyyourmind]

I'm going to start off with Hungarian Rhapsody 2. After being assigned to it by my teacher and playing through I really have to say that with some good ragtime, chopin etudes, and maybe a Rach prelude this piece can be mastered in a reasonable amount of time. The last time I checked the forum someone was flamed for considering to try and learn this?? I actually stayed away from it because of everything I heard on this forum...

I know depends on the person blah blah but what other pieces do some of the advanced players around here notice are overrated when it comes to their technical difficulty? I have seen pieces I know theres no way I could play them any time soon, but if everyone is always saying that everything is impossible, no one is going to get a clear picture of what actually is doable.

[sevencircles]

Minute Waltz and Rach Transcription of Bumble Bee are not as hard as most people think.

[stormx]

Nothing is overrated...playing the piano is #$%&/()$ difficult !!
 

[kriskicksass]

Nothing is overrated...playing the piano is #$%&/()$ difficult !!
 

I agree. In fact, I'd say that there are more pieces whose easiness is overestimated than pieces whose difficulty is.

[journeyyourmind]

Ok, I see what you're saying, but you can't deny that on the forum whenever certain pieces come up someone posts about how they are either ridiculous for learning the piece or that it is insane they should not learn it(and alot of the time, alot of people agree and/or start flaming), or atleast, thats what it has been in my experience with people I know, and sometimes even on this forum. There are other open minded people of course, but this is what I mean by "overrated". I would just like to hear some similiar stories about mastering some technical aspect/goal that you didn't expect to do, can be inspiring you know. 

[kelly_kelly]

Ok, I see what you're saying, but you can't deny that on the forum whenever certain pieces come up someone posts about how they are either ridiculous for learning the piece or that it is insane they should not learn it(and alot of the time, alot of people agree and/or start flaming), or atleast, thats what it has been in my experience with people I know, and sometimes even on this forum. There are other open minded people of course, but this is what I mean by "overrated". I would just like to hear some similiar stories about mastering some technical aspect/goal that you didn't expect to do, can be inspiring you know. 

When someone who's been playing for two months asks to play HR 2, they deserved to get flamed, regadless of whether the difficulty of the piece is overrated.

[journeyyourmind]

That's true, but thats not really related to my post. I'm referring to when it is definitely not ridiculous, and simply looking for some replies. Jeez, what do people on this forum just look out to argue with people? I'm not trying to criticize here, but trying to generate some response to a general idea.

Trust me, this is not some "I can play BLANK" post, not only is that ridiculous, but I happen to be very aware of the tons of poeple on this forum who play better than me.

[mikey6]

I'm gonna say the OC - coz I haven't played it nor anyone else I think on this forum and therefore we're all at a position to say it's overated

[Motrax]

I think Jeux D'eau intimidates a lot more people than it should. It fit well under my hands; it should fit well under yours. 

[steve jones]

Nothing is overrated...playing the piano is #$%&/()$ difficult !!
 

I have to agree with you - they're all hard for me, even the stupidly easy ones!

SJ

[kony]

hmm out of common repertoire ..

i can think of many that are quite difficult, though not as difficult as they're perceived, but after lots of careful consideration which took all of 5 seconds, i'm going to say -

Fantaisie-Impromptu

[cloches_de_geneve]

I think Jeux D'eau intimidates a lot more people than it should. It fit well under my hands; it should fit well under yours. 

Which one do you mean Liszt's or Ravel's? imo Ravel is more challenging.

[invictious]

Fantaisie-Impromptu

Case closed.

[pies]

Ligeti etudes

[soliloquy]

Corigliano Etude Fantasy isn't as hard as most people seem to think; neither is the Vine Sonata No. 1

[journeyyourmind]

I thought the OC was a ridiculous piece no one could play???

[mikey6]

Which one do you mean Liszt's or Ravel's? imo Ravel is more challenging.

Jeux d'eau is Ravel - jeux de la villa deste is Liszt

[cloches_de_geneve]

Jeux d'eau is Ravel - jeux de la villa deste is Liszt

Not quite:

Liszt: Jeux d'eau à la Villa d'Este (sometimes simply referred to as "Jeux d'eau"), but I suppose that
Ravel was meant anyway.

[journeyyourmind]

What would be good preperation for the Ravel piece?

[Kassaa]

Fantaisie-Impromptu

Case closed.

It's more underrated than overrated. This board is full of 12-year olds who think they can play this after Fur Elise.

[tompilk]

i think quite a lot of music is overated in terms of proffessionals being able to play it because I think that professionals can play most stuff.
However, for us most stuff is totally difficult and i agree that piano playing is extremely difficult, more so than someone would first think. There's so much to improve. People think its just getting the notes, but it's not by far.
But people who have the natural ability and skill find it easy - because its their natural ability and skill!!!
Tom
Oh, and i think percussion would be the easiest thing in the world to do once you sort out trill tupoe technique etc, but im guessing im wrong cos otherwise ther wouldnt be competitions for it...

[Motrax]

I think relaxation and patience are all you need to learn Jeux D'eau (by Ravel, which is what I referred to before). For the first three weeks of learning it, I could make neither head nor tail of it, and all of a sudden one day the first 6 pages were memorized - another 2 or 3 weeks and I had the whole thing from memory.

I think memorizing it is particularly important since it's harder (for me, at least) to sightread than earlier genres (like Chopin or Beethoven). A lot of patterns written into Jeux D'eau won't be very apparent until you've taken a good deal of time to sit down and really think about the music - this makes memorizing it a great deal easier. Another helpful method in memorizing this piece is to treat it contrapuntally, rather than harmonically. Follow each voice seperately in your mind (for example, in the difficult rhythm section leading up to the glissando - the bass notes in the LH are a melody, the top of the RH is a melody, and the arpeggios have their own patterns that can be made sense of with a little thought) and memorizing will become a matter of a few short weeks or even days, depending on prior experience.

Concurrent with memorizing the notes should be memorizing good fingering. There are a few passages (a page in the LH right after the glissando, for example) that will probably be very awkward, and starting off with a less-than-ideal fingering will really get you in trouble when you start picking up the tempo. This is the highest obstacle when it comes to learning the piece, in my opinion, since it can be very discouraging to have to change fingerings two or three or four times (as I had to do! ) before settling on something that's comfortable at the tempo of choice. If you haven't had much experience with more advanced repertoire, it would be good to discuss fingerings with a teacher or more advanced pianist at trouble spots.

Once the piece is in memory and good fingerings are chosen, the hard work's pretty much over. Just play slowly, (I am a big advocate of the metronome) and RELAXED and eventually things will just fall into place. For passages that you feel are truly above your technique (that fast whole-tone scale in the beginning, the RH arpeggios in the middle and at the end, etc), you may need to set aside a lot of time to raise these spots to the point where they are on par with the rest of the piece. Even for these, though, I'd say it's only a matter of time (possibly a long time...  ) before you'll be hearing "oohs" and "aahs" from your audiences.

Lastly, if there are spots you just don't know how to approach, you can PM me and I'll be happy to go into greater detail. 

Good luck!

- M

[mikey6]

Not quite:

Liszt: Jeux d'eau à la Villa d'Este (sometimes simply referred to as "Jeux d'eau"), but I suppose that
Ravel was meant anyway.

hmm, I've never heard it called that.

[verywellmister]

What would be good preperation for the Ravel piece?

Depending on your capabilities, you could just start Sonatine.  Then you could do Une Barque sur l'Ocean from Miroirs which is less awkward than Jeux D'eau imo and its also a "water" piece.  Then Jeux D'eau!

[journeyyourmind]

wow thanks alot!!!

and motrax I see what youre saying, I think I needed someone to lay it out like that. Following the voices is such a great thing to do, I didn't realize a lot of things about so many pieces until after i sang in my school chorus. It really teaches you alot about appreciating every little note. And I'll definitely remember to be patient and relaxed while playing, and to seperate the harder parts. I often get so anxious to learn everything and then dissapointed if something doesn't go right away.

[ail]

I'm gonna say the OC - coz I haven't played it nor anyone else I think on this forum and therefore we're all at a position to say it's overated

The answer is probably obvious for most of you, but not for me. What is this OC?

Thanks

Alex

[dnephi]

I think that fur elise is underrated.  I have played for ten years and I am working on Mendelssohn's Piano concerto no. 1 but I still have not learned Fur Elise...


:p

[thorn]

What would be good preperation for the Ravel piece?

I asked my A level music teacher when I was in college a similar thing, and was told that Ondine from Gaspard de la Nuit is easier than Jeux d'eau. (I was learning Ondine and wondered whether it would be easier to do Jeux d'eau first and was told definately not).

I think Jeux d'eau is technically underrated in the sense that people think it is easy in comparison to something like Gaspard and the Miroirs. It's not that hard a piece, but people still tend to think it easier than it is.

[prometheus]

I'm gonna say the OC - coz I haven't played it nor anyone else I think on this forum and therefore we're all at a position to say it's overated

Since someone doesn't know anything about the piece it means that one should comment on it regardless of the obvious total ignorance?

It's like saying that someone can perform heart sugery because they haven't tried before and thus do not know anything about the complecations of such a procedure.

[mikey6]

Since someone doesn't know anything about the piece it means that one should comment on it regardless of the obvious total ignorance?

It's like saying that someone can perform heart sugery because they haven't tried before and thus do not know anything about the complecations of such a procedure.

I was joking...jeez

[sevencircles]

think quite a lot of music is overated in terms of proffessionals being able to play it because I think that professionals can play most stuff

Not so actually.

Many of the pros are pretty limited actually.

Many of them have a hard time making a living playing classical so they play popular music instead and loose their technique pretty rapidly.

[transitional]

All of the people that officially rate stuff make room for all of the technically easy pieces that are "emotionally challenging" ... and sometimes they forget that technique exists. This makes many pieces "overrated as to how to play musically" (not really a technical thing, and much of this list is just proposition):

Waldstein sonata (except for the octave glissandi)
Appassionata sonata
beethoven Op. 111
Beethoven Op. 110
Beethoven Op. 101
Brahms Op. 118 No. 2
Brahms Op. 79 Rhapsodies
All Chopin nocturnes (except perhaps op 15 no 1 and op 27 no 1)
First 3 Chopin impromptus
Chopin ballade 1 and 4
Schubert D 894
Schubert D 959
Rachmaninoff Op. 3
Jeux d'eau

I don't want this post to sound condescending, like I think all these pieces are easy when they're not. I  think that every piece presents a certain challenge that you develop with it over time, and nothing can truly get easy unless it's grade 1 music. (And even that's hard to get perfect, with its great sparseness)

But what I want you to get at is that the technical difficulty is the most direct, up front challenge everyone faces in difficult pieces (depending on what you define as difficult). So-called musicality is overrated, because everyone has a different interpretation to some extent. Unless you're trying to produce the most sublime, the most intimate, the most heart pounding, disastrous, wonderful, flowing, etc. performance than anything passes, as long as you personalize it a bit.

TLDR: Don't judge a book by its cover. Technique is super important too, and not emphasized when considering "difficulty"

[thorn]

But what I want you to get at is that the technical difficulty is the most direct, up front challenge everyone faces in difficult pieces (depending on what you define as difficult). So-called musicality is overrated, because everyone has a different interpretation to some extent.

I completely agree with the first part. But once you have a piece in your fingers musicality becomes more important. So many people have technique and no musicality, you hear them in all the competitions.

There's also an overlooked difficulty that is memorisation. A Bach Fugue can be trickier than an entire Classical Sonata. During undergrad tonally complex/atonal pieces were the one exception they made to the playing from memory rule (you could if you were able, but it wasn't forced like they did with standard repertoire).

[skylight]

Nothing is overrated...playing the piano is #$%&/()$ difficult !!
 

Thank you! That alone is an encouragement.

[ravelfan07]

Definitely Mazeppa