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Topic: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov  (Read 5938 times)

Offline schnabels_grandson

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Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
on: December 23, 2003, 11:39:50 PM
Рахманинов.  That is the russian equvilent to Rachmaninoff.  Some people choose to say or spell it Rachmaninov or Rachmaninow.  The little B character at the end stands for the letter or sound V.  However, in russian if this letter is used at the end of a word, it makes an F sound.  Hence, the correct spelling and pronunciation of the name is "Rachmaninoff".  Remember, this is the way Rachmaninoff had it spelled on his tombstone.  So, if you've gone with the misinformed crowd and said "Rachmaninov", now's the time to change your ways.    
You don't have to eat garbage to know it's garbage.-Old Proverb
A good composer does not imitate; he steals.- Igor Stravinsky

Offline schnabels_grandson

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #1 on: December 23, 2003, 11:40:54 PM
Darn, I guess this thing can't handle Russian characters.
You don't have to eat garbage to know it's garbage.-Old Proverb
A good composer does not imitate; he steals.- Igor Stravinsky

Offline cziffra

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #2 on: December 24, 2003, 02:58:27 AM
thankyou, for putting the lid on that one- that has been annoying me for many years now, not knowing which one that should be.

does that count for balakireff too?
What it all comes down to is that one does not play the piano with one’s fingers; one plays the piano with one’s mind.-  Glenn Gould

Offline schnabels_grandson

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #3 on: December 24, 2003, 03:21:20 AM
Quote
does that count for balakireff too?

I think so,  I actually should have said it adds an F sound to the existing V, but the F sound is more pronounced, like "RachmaninovF".  So I guess it would be Balakirevf with slightly more emphasis on the F than the V.  
You don't have to eat garbage to know it's garbage.-Old Proverb
A good composer does not imitate; he steals.- Igor Stravinsky

Offline liszmaninopin

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #4 on: December 24, 2003, 04:53:35 AM
What is Rachmaninoff's correct first name?  I have seen it written Sergei, Serge, Sergey, and probably a couple of others.  I have always leaned towards Sergei Rachmaninoff as the correct spelling, but could be mistaken.

Offline eddie92099

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #5 on: December 24, 2003, 08:19:50 AM
Call him what you like. We all know who we are talking about,
Ed

Offline schnabels_grandson

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #6 on: December 24, 2003, 10:14:03 AM
Well, I would accept that idea but I think this is very similar to calling a piece a song.  We all know what people mean when they say song, but apparently it still causes anger.  Same with Rachmaninoff.  
You don't have to eat garbage to know it's garbage.-Old Proverb
A good composer does not imitate; he steals.- Igor Stravinsky

Offline eddie92099

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #7 on: December 24, 2003, 10:22:10 AM
No, it's not similar at all. Rachmaninov, Rachmaninoff, Rakhmaninov etc. are all acceptable and widely used translations of a Russian name,
Ed

Offline schnabels_grandson

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #8 on: December 24, 2003, 10:52:39 AM
I suppose you're right.  Rachmaninoff is the only correct translation/pronunciation though.
You don't have to eat garbage to know it's garbage.-Old Proverb
A good composer does not imitate; he steals.- Igor Stravinsky

Offline Noah

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #9 on: December 24, 2003, 01:44:25 PM
Quote
I suppose you're right.  Rachmaninoff is the only correct translation/pronunciation though.


Then unless you write his name in cyrillic, you'll be spelling his name wrong. As far as I know there is no official 'translation' of the cyrillic alphabet into the latin alphabet, hence Rachmaninov; Rakhmaninov or Rachmaninoff are all equally valid.  
'Some musicians don't believe in God, but all believe in Bach'
M. Kagel

Offline Hmoll

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #10 on: December 24, 2003, 03:28:38 PM
This thread should be moved to the "Who Gives a F***" folder.
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Offline eddie92099

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #11 on: December 24, 2003, 03:59:52 PM
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This thread should be moved to the "Who Gives a F***" folder.


Where it would join the "How fast can you scale chromatically?" thread,
Ed

Offline Hmoll

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #12 on: December 24, 2003, 04:31:58 PM
Quote


Where it would join the "How fast can you scale chromatically?" thread,
Ed


You've got my vote, Ed.
"I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your review before me. In a moment it will be behind me!" -- Max Reger

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #13 on: December 24, 2003, 05:11:14 PM
Quote
Рахманинов.  That is the russian equvilent to Rachmaninoff.  Some people choose to say or spell it Rachmaninov or Rachmaninow.  The little B character at the end stands for the letter or sound V.  However, in russian if this letter is used at the end of a word, it makes an F sound.  Hence, the correct spelling and pronunciation of the name is "Rachmaninoff".  Remember, this is the way Rachmaninoff had it spelled on his tombstone.  So, if you've gone with the misinformed crowd and said "Rachmaninov", now's the time to change your ways.    


 Scriabin
 Skyriabin
 Scriabine
 Skriabin

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Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #14 on: December 24, 2003, 06:14:02 PM
This is all quite amusing. Please continue.

boliver

Offline allchopin

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #15 on: December 24, 2003, 09:07:15 PM
Quote

Where it would join the "How fast can you scale chromatically?" thread


Your motto just HAS to be, if you can't compete, deride.
A modern house without a flush toilet... uncanny.

Offline eddie92099

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #16 on: December 25, 2003, 06:53:59 AM
Quote

Your motto just HAS to be, if you can't compete, deride.


W,
Ed

Offline dinosaurtales

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #17 on: December 25, 2003, 07:32:17 AM
You guys just totally crack me up.  But now that we've brought the darned thing up, my teacher has a book of Prokofieff sonatas, and my book says Prokofiev.  SHE says the 'v' one is correct.  How does that fit into your alphabet soup scenario?

And no smart cracks from the peanut gallery - ED!  

And by the way, Merry Christmas - it IS *tomorros* there, isn't it?  It's still Christmas eve here.

Min
So much music, so little time........

Offline chsmike2345

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #18 on: January 01, 2004, 04:30:29 AM
Lets call him Rocky and leave it at that. LOL
;D

Offline Daevren

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #19 on: January 01, 2004, 04:40:08 AM
Almost all russian names translated to english are incorrectly spelled. Officially, that is. Because if you would translate them as correct as possible you get thinks you don't normally see in english. Like Dostojefski, Toergenjev, Poesjkin, stuff like that. Well those are writers, not musicians, before anyone gets scared he/she lacks in music knowledge.

Offline pianomaestro88

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #20 on: January 02, 2004, 11:55:34 PM
tsar v. czar?

Not to say that Rachmaninoff is the czar of...well anything.  ::)

Offline Rach3

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #21 on: January 03, 2004, 10:08:09 AM
The point is, it's all TRANSLATION and as thus not absolute. I am not aware of an "official" standardized convention for cyrillic-english translation.
"Never look at the trombones, it only encourages them."
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Offline Rach3

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #22 on: January 03, 2004, 10:11:42 AM
Personally, I prefer Rachmaninoff, it looks correctish. I have a teacher who calls him "Rachy".

I haven't seen "Balakrievf" anywhere, or "Balakrieff".

We brought up Bala***, Scri***, and Prok***, surprised no one mentioned...

CHAIKOFFSKY!!!
"Never look at the trombones, it only encourages them."
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Offline eddie92099

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #23 on: January 03, 2004, 10:39:37 AM
Don't you mean Cjiekhoffskhijh?
Ed

Offline chopinetta

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #24 on: January 03, 2004, 01:51:14 PM
blame it on translations... thumbs up on that one Ed! hehe  ;D what's the point arguing about which is which? all can do when it's english...
"If I do not believe anymore in tears, it is because I see you cry." -Chopin to George Sand
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Offline chopinetta

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #25 on: January 03, 2004, 01:53:40 PM
why don't you settle with rkmnnv... that's very very very convenient!
"If I do not believe anymore in tears, it is because I see you cry." -Chopin to George Sand
"How repulsive this George Sand is! is she really a woman? I'm ready to doubt it."-Chopin on George Sand

Offline Rach3

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #26 on: January 03, 2004, 08:32:34 PM
Rachy.
"Never look at the trombones, it only encourages them."
--Richard Wagner

Offline IgnazPaderewski

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #27 on: January 04, 2004, 12:14:48 AM
This is a slightly pointless discussion, as you cannot arrive at a right or wrong conclusion, as all the names mentioned are just attempts at best phonetically translating a name in a different language. So you are only debating the most widely accepted (Rekmanynovv would not qualify) translation, and the main two are the  v/ff endings. Have fun, Ill stick with NI!

Offline chopinetta

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #28 on: January 04, 2004, 04:50:31 AM
but we're having so much fun with rach-rach!!!
"If I do not believe anymore in tears, it is because I see you cry." -Chopin to George Sand
"How repulsive this George Sand is! is she really a woman? I'm ready to doubt it."-Chopin on George Sand

Offline ThEmUsIcMaNBJ

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #29 on: January 04, 2004, 09:00:33 AM
Well if he used "Rachmaninoff" on his tombstone I think "Rachmaninoff" would be most appropriate don't you?  I figure he came up with that spelling because I'm sure he spelled his name in english before!  Think about it though, the way you spell your name is the right way, if he wrote his name Rakkmaninnsofk in english that would be correct now wouldn't it?

Wouldn't you get a little upset if your name was Brian and everyone kept spelling it Bryan?  I would, I know it doesn't matter too much but it gets a little irratating after a while.

But then again... He's dead I'm not sure he cares  ;)

Offline L.K.

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #30 on: January 04, 2004, 02:55:25 PM
How about...Rahmaninov? That's how it's usually spelled here.

Offline comme_le_vent

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #31 on: January 11, 2004, 06:44:02 PM
rach, ex s club 7

what did rach's friends call him when he was alive?

friend : yo rach whats up man?

rach : just chillin dawg

sounds exactly right to me
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Great artists aim for perfection, while knowing that perfection itself is impossible, it is the driving force for them to be the best they can be - MC Hammer

Offline schnabels_grandson

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Re: Rachmaninoff VS. Rachmaninov
Reply #32 on: January 12, 2004, 07:24:06 PM
What I am trying to say is that when Rachmaninoff is spelled with a V, people pronounce the V.  Russians do not say it that way, therefore it's incorret.  It's like me calling Eddie "Ebby".  
You don't have to eat garbage to know it's garbage.-Old Proverb
A good composer does not imitate; he steals.- Igor Stravinsky
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