Piano Forum

Poll

In reference to Horowitz's famous quote (below), which one are you?

Jewish
Homosexual
Bad

Topic: Which type of pianist are you?  (Read 7676 times)

Offline contrapunctus

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 408
Which type of pianist are you?
on: July 05, 2006, 03:55:09 AM
"There are three kinds of pianists - Jewish pianists, homosexual pianists, and bad pianists." - Vladimir Horowitz

I am sure most of you have heard this before, so under which category do you belong?

Oh, and by the way, does anyone know any back story to this quote?


Medtner, man.

Offline westley

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #1 on: July 05, 2006, 04:25:22 AM
I always sort of assumed that the extra punchline was thatas a jewish homosexual, Horowitz must be the best pianist ever.

Offline pianistimo

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12142
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #2 on: July 05, 2006, 04:33:01 AM
i think people's personal lives somehow become seemingly the personal property of their reviewers and students and friends - and it becomes a very fine line between love/hate.  just as the paparazzi hounded princess diana - i think artists and generally good pianists deserve some privacy.

that said - i think u could add 'women' to the list.  they are not always jewish or homosexual.  just born sensitive and willing to admit fault (thereby increasing their chances to learn something during lessons).

what is the first thing u think about when u see a pianist?  do u wonder 'are they jewish?'  'arethey homosexual'  - does it matter?   if they play really really well - i think it is an area of talent and not based upon the matters of privacy that should remain private.  religion and sexual preference are private matters.

that said (yes - i go back and forth) - there are some extremely good looking pianists and i can see that a woman might wonder 'is he gay or straight?'  but, then again - even if he's 'gay' and not 'straight' - he can still be a wonderful human being and not necessarily a sexual object of desire every moment that he plays.  besides - we're not supposed to drool over people that way.  it's just very difficult when a guy looks good  and plays well.

Offline Waldszenen

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1001
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #3 on: July 05, 2006, 07:45:10 AM
Horowitz's quote may have been famous but it is grossly untrue.
Fortune favours the musical.

Offline thetrojanhorse

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 17
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #4 on: July 05, 2006, 08:29:05 AM
Christ, it's supposed to be funny.

Go write your dissertation on "political-correctness" elsewhere.

Offline avetma

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 331
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #5 on: July 05, 2006, 09:00:51 AM
It's very stupid sentence from Horowitz. When man shows his feelings than he is homosexual or jewish?!

Nonsense

Offline counterpoint

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2003
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #6 on: July 05, 2006, 09:19:48 AM
What Horowitz wanted to say

all of the world's best pianists are either jewish or gay (or - in his case - both  :)  )

any counterexamples...?

what do we learn from this?

the more troubles you have in life, the better pianist you will be.

sounds sarcastic but seems to be not that wrong
If it doesn't work - try something different!

Offline phil13

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1395
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #7 on: July 05, 2006, 04:55:42 PM
Jewish  8)

Phil

Offline ramseytheii

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2488
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #8 on: July 05, 2006, 08:03:39 PM
I love it!  I wish I had thought of this poll.

Walter Ramsey

Offline moi_not_toi

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #9 on: July 05, 2006, 08:12:25 PM
I think (in addition to being funny) as no one wants to admit being jewish (as the KKK might be at their door soon) or gay (except gay people) he was trying to say that no one is a good pianist.

I mean, you can't play everything, and that's what a good pianist is, thus you are either selfish, (no offence to jews), a bit off, (no offence to gays), or willing to admit that you're not the best their is.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)
Vote for Bunny!
Vote for Earth!

Offline zheer

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2794
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #10 on: July 05, 2006, 08:12:40 PM
 Bad
" Nothing ends nicely, that's why it ends" - Tom Cruise -

Offline prometheus

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3819
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #11 on: July 05, 2006, 08:36:38 PM
Of course it is not true. Like someone said before, it was meant to be funny but it really isn't, at least not to me. Maybe russian did it more justice but in general I find the statement bigotric and that's not the same as political uncorrect. But I guess one needs to see this statement in its perspective. Maybe there was a lot of discrimination against both gay and jewish people. So maybe it was meant as a pun, as satire.

But the context has been lost, if my assumption is correct, the statement should be dropped and left behind.
"As an artist you don't rake in a million marks without performing some sacrifice on the Altar of Art." -Franz Liszt

Offline ramseytheii

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2488
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #12 on: July 05, 2006, 09:39:44 PM
Of course it is not true. Like someone said before, it was meant to be funny but it really isn't, at least not to me. Maybe russian did it more justice but in general I find the statement bigotric and that's not the same as political uncorrect. But I guess one needs to see this statement in its perspective. Maybe there was a lot of discrimination against both gay and jewish people. So maybe it was meant as a pun, as satire.

But the context has been lost, if my assumption is correct, the statement should be dropped and left behind.

Bigotric? That's a funny word!  :D  ::) I think Horowitz was referring to 1) himself, and 2) the disproportionate number of Jewish and homosexual pianists.  I think the classical world there is neither discrimination against Jews nor against homosexuals.  In fact Rubinstein implied a common acceptance of homosexualists even from a hundred years ago; he wrote that he was surprised to hear Horowitz was marrying W. Toscanini, as "we all knew" Horowitz's true persuasions.  Knew, and accepted!

Walter Ramsey

Offline prometheus

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3819
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #13 on: July 05, 2006, 10:15:07 PM
I knew is was not a good word. I tried to find an alternative I guess I either forgot or failed.
"As an artist you don't rake in a million marks without performing some sacrifice on the Altar of Art." -Franz Liszt

Offline ramseytheii

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2488
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #14 on: July 06, 2006, 12:18:46 AM
I knew is was not a good word. I tried to find an alternative I guess I either forgot or failed.

Unacceptable!

Walter Ramsey
 >:(

 ;D

 ;)

Offline moi_not_toi

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #15 on: July 06, 2006, 12:57:06 AM
Bigotric? That's a funny word!  :D  ::) I think Horowitz was referring to 1) himself, and 2) the disproportionate number of Jewish and homosexual pianists.  I think the classical world there is neither discrimination against Jews nor against homosexuals.  In fact Rubinstein implied a common acceptance of homosexualists even from a hundred years ago; he wrote that he was surprised to hear Horowitz was marrying W. Toscanini, as "we all knew" Horowitz's true persuasions.  Knew, and accepted!

Walter Ramsey


Horowitz was gay!!!!??????
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)
Vote for Bunny!
Vote for Earth!

Offline stevie

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2803
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #16 on: July 06, 2006, 01:26:59 AM


and would you believe it...this man may have been gay too

Offline counterpoint

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2003
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #17 on: July 06, 2006, 07:50:51 AM
Horowitz didn't say, every gay is a great pianist  ;D
If it doesn't work - try something different!

Offline jason2711

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 157
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #18 on: July 06, 2006, 09:36:40 PM
bad... though I'm working on becoming Jewish...

But I think it's maybe due to the ostracism that both these groups face/ faced.  Many great pianists/ composers had to leave their country and family.  Horowitz was one, as was Chopin himself.  Cziffra spent time in a Soviet Prisoner of War camp.  (he wasn't gay or Jewish was he?  :-\)  Barry Douglas, neither gay or Jewish, grew up in Northern Ireland at a time when the violence was at it it's worst.  And don't forget those great movies 'the pianist' and 'shine'.  Both times, the pianist gets separated from his family, and in the former he sees his whole world destroyed (well, more or less).

I think isolation often is important... too many distractions and you lose focus.  For something like training to be a concert pianist, you need to have an incredible drive.  Homosexuals probably back in Horowitz's day weren't so open, so most would have kept in the closet about it, and thus would have been pretty lonely.  Without generalising too much, Jews are often very ambitious.  For their relative abundance in Western Society, they are more likely to be in professional jobs.  Perhaps it is this determined ambition which works well becoming a concert pianist.

Of course, there are countless examples of non-gay, non-Jewish great pianists, I'm pretty sure Horowitz wasn't being too serious...

Offline counterpoint

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2003
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #19 on: July 06, 2006, 09:56:25 PM
Quote
I'm pretty sure Horowitz wasn't being too serious...

serious and not serious at the same time, I think     ::) 
If it doesn't work - try something different!

Offline Waldszenen

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1001
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #20 on: July 07, 2006, 01:25:42 AM
Horowitz was gay!!!!??????

Not Van Cliburn girlishly gay, but one of those folks who married but had a few "friends" to keep him company once in a while.
Fortune favours the musical.

Offline moi_not_toi

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #21 on: July 09, 2006, 06:37:48 PM
 :'( :'( :'(
How depressing.

I feel sorry for his wife.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)
Vote for Bunny!
Vote for Earth!

Offline counterpoint

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2003
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #22 on: July 09, 2006, 07:23:21 PM
Horowitz was married by Wanda (Toscanini), as she told in a tv-interview, and I feel sorry for him8)

If it doesn't work - try something different!

Offline chopinfan_22

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 245
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #23 on: July 10, 2006, 03:08:18 AM
I think (in addition to being funny) as no one wants to admit being jewish (as the KKK might be at their door soon) or gay (except gay people) he was trying to say that no one is a good pianist.

I mean, you can't play everything, and that's what a good pianist is, thus you are either selfish, (no offence to jews), a bit off, (no offence to gays), or willing to admit that you're not the best their is.

I agree fully. I am bad.
"When I look around me, I must sigh, for what I see is contrary to my religion and I must despize the world which does not know that music is a higher revelation beyond all wisdom and philosophy."

Offline rimv2

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 798
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #24 on: July 10, 2006, 05:13:56 AM
Of course it is not true. Like someone said before, it was meant to be funny but it really isn't, at least not to me. Maybe russian did it more justice but in general I find the statement bigotric and that's not the same as political uncorrect. But I guess one needs to see this statement in its perspective. Maybe there was a lot of discrimination against both gay and jewish people. So maybe it was meant as a pun, as satire.

But the context has been lost, if my assumption is correct, the statement should be dropped and left behind.


You're a gay jew arent you?
(\_/)                     (\_/)      | |
(O.o)                   (o.O)   <(@)     
(>   )> Ironically[/url] <(   <)

Offline edmundas

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 11
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #25 on: July 10, 2006, 03:16:40 PM

   Stupid, REALY stupid question!!!!!!!!!!

Offline moi_not_toi

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #26 on: July 10, 2006, 04:42:49 PM

You're a gay jew arent you?
Perhaps he just doesn't want to admit that he sucks like the rest of us. (oh, wait. That sounds SOO wrong. But I don't mean it that way)
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)
Vote for Bunny!
Vote for Earth!

Offline bachfan87

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #27 on: July 14, 2006, 03:21:32 AM
Well of course he would have said that, he's Jewish.
I'm not Jewish, gay, and I sure hope I'm not bad! Though I'm probably bad compared to him of couse!

Offline alejo_90

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 272
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #28 on: July 15, 2006, 02:10:17 AM
I'm not Jewish, I'm not Gay, I'm just Bad.

Best
Alex

Yay ! 250th post  ! :) :P
It's better to make your own mistakes than copy someone else's. - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline ramseytheii

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2488
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #29 on: July 15, 2006, 02:22:53 AM
I'm not Jewish, I'm not Gay, I'm just Bad.

Best
Alex

Yay ! 250th post  ! :) :P

Well - you'd have to be !
 8)

Walter Ramsey

Offline jre58591

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1770
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #30 on: July 15, 2006, 06:13:05 AM
   Stupid, REALY stupid question!!!!!!!!!!
by saying this, you are blaspheming horowitz.
Please Visit: https://www.pianochat.co.nr
My YouTube Videos: https://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=jre58591

Offline alejo_90

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 272
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #31 on: July 17, 2006, 03:15:29 AM
Well - you'd have to be !
 8)

Walter Ramsey


??? ??? ???
It's better to make your own mistakes than copy someone else's. - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline frau

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 4
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #32 on: July 18, 2006, 04:09:46 PM
What an excellent, humorous quote! I love it.

I'd go with homosexual, but since the whole sexuality thing is still very much up in the air... I'll go with bad.

Offline pies

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1467
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #33 on: July 18, 2006, 05:43:08 PM
Horowitz was not gay! He had a wife (though they slept in separate beds...).

Offline cfortunato

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 258
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #34 on: July 18, 2006, 07:33:21 PM
Brian Epstein must have been a great, great pianist.

Offline bernhard

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5078
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #35 on: July 18, 2006, 08:01:41 PM
Horowitz was not gay! He had a wife

So did Tchaikovsky and Richter... ::)

Quote
(though they slept in separate beds...).

There you go. ;)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline moi_not_toi

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #36 on: July 18, 2006, 09:25:00 PM
So did Tchaikovsky and Richter... ::)

There you go. ;)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Sleeping in seperate beds was a common practice in the US at that time. Don't tell me it wasn't everywhere else. (yeah, I know that it sounds like I think that the world thinks like the US, but I don't think that.)
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)
Vote for Bunny!
Vote for Earth!

Offline bernhard

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5078
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #37 on: July 18, 2006, 09:30:27 PM
Sleeping in seperate beds was a common practice in the US at that time. Don't tell me it wasn't everywhere else.

Er... Ok. I won´t tell you then. ;D
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline moi_not_toi

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #38 on: July 18, 2006, 11:40:44 PM
Er... Ok. I won´t tell you then. ;D
::) ::)
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)
Vote for Bunny!
Vote for Earth!

Offline pianowelsh

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1576
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #39 on: September 09, 2006, 09:46:02 AM
Just goes to show you dont have to be clever or a great politician to be a fantastic pianist!!

Offline brucesan

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 3
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #40 on: September 09, 2006, 07:48:52 PM
Im sure that a person as intelligent as Horowitz couldnt have been serious when he made this comment. He was just making a joke out of the fact that a large number of professional pianists are Jewish or gay or both.

Offline pianolist

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #41 on: September 11, 2006, 01:17:20 AM
So what's wrong with Wanda Toscanini? Nice gruff sense of humour. Very deep love in both their eyes, regardless of the sexuality. Not a fish in sight. Long live Wanda!
Yes, it's the 10,000th member ...

Offline pianolist

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #42 on: September 11, 2006, 02:19:30 AM
By the way, here's our boy recording a Welte-Mignon piano roll.

Yes, it's the 10,000th member ...

Online lostinidlewonder

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7774
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #43 on: September 22, 2006, 03:39:25 AM
I always found that quote by Horowitz really shallow. What happens if I am a bad Jewish gay pianist, I am sure there are many there.
"The biggest risk in life is to take no risk at all."
www.pianovision.com

Offline brewtality

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 923
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #44 on: September 22, 2006, 11:05:51 AM
I always found that quote by Horowitz really shallow. What happens if I am a bad Jewish gay pianist, I am sure there are many there.

oh come now, it's just a joke!

Offline andyd

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #45 on: September 22, 2006, 12:00:13 PM
Anyone know what year Horowitz said this?

Andy

Offline hodi

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 848
Re: Which type of pianist are you?
Reply #46 on: September 24, 2006, 12:37:20 PM
i'm israeli jewish :)
For more information about this topic, click search below!

Piano Street Magazine:
Lucas Debargue - A Matter of Life or Death

Pianist Lucas Debargue recently recorded the complete piano works of Gabriel Fauré on the Opus 102, a very special grand piano by Stephen Paulello. Eric Schoones from the German/Dutch magazine PIANIST had a conversation with him. Read more
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert