overrated pianists of the 20th century

[IgnazPaderewski]

self explanatory

[Noah]

Well... Paderewski.

[eddie92099]

Richter,
Ed

[xyxyxyxyxy]

Jean-Yves bloody Thibaudet - he's all hairspray and fancy suits!  His playing (imo) has absolutely no depth or taste whatsoever - vulgar isn't the word! His repeated notes at the start of Scarbo come out like a machine-gun - hardly "fondu" as Ravel has expressly marked them.  He has a nice smile though- I'll give him that!  Another one whose playing I can't stand is Stephen Bishop/Kovacevich or whatever he's calling himself these days. His "celebrated" Beethoven sonata recordings for me are one of the most ugly things I've ever heard in my life- totally devoid any humanity- I can see why he got so jealous of Martha when they were living together- apparently she would get up, rub her eyes and sight-read flawlessly  passages he'd just been struggling with for hours - used to drive him nuts! Now Martha Argerich can never be rated highly enough in my opinion- and she's even more phenomenal live - amazing stage presence! Was in the second row at proms when she played Prokofiev 3  - she just threw her hands at the keyboard from the most dizzying heights and her fingers always landed smack down on the most complex succesive chords- she plays the piano in the most natural way I have ever seen.  Another pianist whose playing I love is Wilhelm Kempff- anyone else like him? I think his Beethoven is sublime- such beauty and humanity!

[eddie92099]

Jean-Yves bloody Thibaudet - he's all hairspray and fancy suits!  His playing (imo) has absolutely no depth or taste whatsoever

I can see how you would get that impression from his recordings, but seeing him live is another matter.

Now Martha Argerich can never be rated highly enough in my opinion- and she's even more phenomenal live - amazing stage presence! Was in the second row at proms when she played Prokofiev 3  - she just threw her hands at the keyboard from the most dizzying heights and her fingers always landed smack down on the most complex succesive chords- she plays the piano in the most natural way I have ever seen.

. I have the prom on video so I'll have to look out for you! Will you be at her Prokofiev 3 on March 20 at the RFH?
Ed

[cziffra]

i hope to dear god argerich that you are NOT referring to THE Sviatoslav Richter, Ed, perhaps there is some other insignificant uzbekistanian richter i have not heard of, for sviatoslav is a GENIUS, plain and simple.

as for the most overrated, that honour goes to paderewski, undoubtedly

[eddie92099]

i hope to dear god argerich that you are NOT referring to THE Sviatoslav Richter, Ed, perhaps there is some other insignificant uzbekistanian richter i have not heard of, for sviatoslav is a GENIUS, plain and simple.

I'm sorry, but I have heard more that I dislike than I like from him (yes, Swiatoslaw),
Ed

[thracozaag]

I'm sorry, but I have heard more that I dislike than I like from him (yes, Swiatoslaw),
Ed

 Aside from his Scriabin and Prokofiev, I must concur with Ed.  I've always felt that Richter was overated, and Gilels underated.

 

[Hmoll]

Lang Lang

Kissin

Serkin - (Rudolf)

hate to say it, but Schnabel (great interpretive vision, but wish he had better chops).

Ax

Pollini

just off the top of my head.

[allchopin]

Rats, you beat me to it-

Not Kissin (I'm not convinced- after hearing his Campanella with flawless tecnique)

Have a great recording of Scriabin's Etude #12 Op. 8 by Lang Lang.... can't say much from one recording, but so far he has failed 0% of the time..

Have a video of Serkin playing various pieces, including Schubert's Sonata in Bb D. 960, sounds perfect and wonderful... no problems there.

Can't speak for the rest at the current time.

[eddie92099]

Pollini

Have you heard his Petrouchka?

Not Kissin (I'm not convinced- after hearing his Campanella with flawless tecnique)

The studio version is flawless but the live recording (from the proms) is far from it,
Ed

[Hmoll]

Have you heard his Petrouchka?

He has two very good recordings to show for his long career: The Chopin Etudes, and the Prok. 7th Sonata/ Petrouchka. For some reason his emotional detachment works for those pieces. It doesn't work elsewhere, though - for example his more recent recording of Kreisleriana.

[chopiabin]

Ed, I agree that the live DVD of Kissin's playing La Campanella isn't perfect, but it's much faster and more passionate than Leslie Howard's or Jeno Jando's. Also his playing of the 10th transcendental etude is so clear and coherent, it sounds so much better than Howard's. Horowitz continues to be my favorite however !

[allchopin]

Well, Ed, to allude you, Kissin must be judged by his best performance, correct?  Kissin did play flawlessly, and so he stands.

[xyxyxyxyxy]

Just thought of another  one! - that Olli Mustonin - or however you spell it - Is he Finnish or something? I can't remember where he's from. Anyway his is the weirdest playing I ever did hear -  funny accents in the weirdest places.
Yes Ed I'm in that proms video! -  After La Marthita has finished and the commentator is waffling on, the camera pans through the audience and there's me! in the grey v-neck and looking the wrong way unfortunately! - Not what I'd hoped for in my televisual debut! The reason I was looking that way is cos Kissin was in the audience and i was looking over at him trying to gage his reaction.  Would love to see Martha again in the Prokofiev - hope she doesn't cancel. Is the concert sold out already does anyone know? If so I'm gonna queue up for returns.
Love this forum - btw I'm sure a lot of people must ask this but how do I do the quote thing?

[erak]

Click "Quote" above a post

[xyxyxyxyxy]

Click "Quote" above a post

Thanks erak! - cool website you have by the way- love the pictures. I see you live in the same country as Martha Argerich! Lucky you! Have you ever been to her house that's full of young pianists?

[eddie92099]

Well, Ed, to allude you, Kissin must be judged by his best performance, correct?  Kissin did play flawlessly, and so he stands.

Sometimes your ignorance amazes me. It was a studio recording which uses a technique called splicing.

Yes Ed I'm in that proms video! -  After La Marthita has finished and the commentator is waffling on, the camera pans through the audience and there's me! in the grey v-neck and looking the wrong way unfortunately! - Not what I'd hoped for in my televisual debut!

I will have to look for you  .

Would love to see Martha again in the Prokofiev - hope she doesn't cancel. Is the concert sold out already does anyone know? If so I'm gonna queue up for returns.

Not completely sold out yet - I can't wait  . https://www.rfh.org.uk/main/events/75745.html?section=classical&file=,
Ed

[Noah]

Thanks erak! - cool website you have by the way- love the pictures. I see you live in the same country as Martha Argerich! Lucky you! Have you ever been to her house that's full of young pianists?

I live about 10 minutes away from where *She* lives (when I'm at home in Brussels) and went to school 2 minutes away from her home but unfortunately I never saw her ...and obviously never went to her home (I'm assuming Erak never did either-- I'd be very jealous if he had  ).

[cziffra]

god damn it, why don't you go up and politely ask if you may play for her or something.  you never know.

[bernhard]

Does it not strike you Martha adorers, that her name should pop out in 6 out of 20 posts devoted to "overrated pianists"? (I am threading in dangerous ground now...) Some kind of unconscious, Freudian slip perhaps?

I can see why he got so jealous of Martha when they were living together- apparently she would get up, rub her eyes and sight-read flawlessly  passages he'd just been struggling with for hours -  

Martha cannot sight-read all that well (watch the documentary by Walter Sales on the pianist Nelson Freire, where she appears trying to sight-read through some two piano stuff with him). But I concede that Kovacevich maybe an even worse sight-reader (he said as much in interview).

Overrated pianist (in his prime, now he seems to be almost forgotten): Alexander Brailowsky.

And what about Vladimir de Pachmann? Genius or charlatan?

[bernhard]

Murray Perahia. His Chopin etudes were a big disappointment after all the hype.  

[eddie92099]

Does it not strike you Martha adorers, that her name should pop out in 6 out of 20 posts devoted to "overrated pianists"? (I am threading in dangerous ground now...) Some kind of unconscious, Freudian slip perhaps?

I'll strike you in a minute  ,
Ed

[chopiabin]

Perahia's etudes were flawless!

[Chitch]

Bela Bartok is overrated, his music is so crap I can't believe anything he's created is in the RCM curriculum. I've heard a lot of his songs from both RCM's repertoire and recordings from the music archive in Toronto. Yet, I can't find one damn song that I would play. he makes me sick!

[e60m5]

As much as Ed and others will dislike this post, I feel that Argerich is often overrated.

I am not saying she is not good. She is. Very. But being an excellent pianist and being overrated are far from the same thing.

[liszmaninopin]

I have to admit I've never cared that much for Argerich, and I can also see the case for Richter being a tad overrated.  Mind you, this is all relative, for I feel confident that most of the pianists mentioned in this thread did not become famous without good reason.

[eddie92099]

Argerich's Bartok sonata is immense. I cannot imagine greater playing of greater music,
Ed

[bernhard]

Perahia's etudes were flawless!

Nevertheless disappointing.

[Chitch]

being an excellent pianist and being overrated are far from the same thing.

Mmmmmmm hmmmmmmm, hit the nail right on the head that time.

[cziffra]

Perahia's etudes were flawless!  

Nevertheless disappointing.  

you sure have some standards, bernard

[bernhard]

you sure have some standards, bernard

Flawless yet disappointing performances of the etudes (on CD):

Murray Perahia
Maurizio Pollini
Vladimir Ashkenazy
(disappointing partly because of all the critical hype that preceded it, and partly because to me it sounded like these pianists were fulfilling a contractual obligation to record these pieces, rather than playing them because they loved them. Meiting in another thread – maybe he was joking – confessed to hate the etudes. Maybe these three pianists have a love-hate relationship with them).

Flawed yet highly satisfying performances:

Alfred Cortot (my favourite so far)
Gyorgy Cziffra (I don’t like his etudes so much, but I keep coming back to them and smiling all along for the chances he takes and the sheer gusto of his playing)

Flawless and highly satisfying:

Claudio Arrau. (my second favourite).

Another three that I enjoy:

Earl Wide
Nelson Freire (shame on him for having recorded only Op. 25)
Martha Argerich (shame on her for not having recorded the complete set).

All the above is purely subjective personal taste – not really a matter of standards. I admire all these pianists, and if I find some of them sometimes disappointing that’s a statement about myself, not about them.

By the way, Martha has now figured in 12 out of 31 posts in a thread dealing with overrated pianists.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

Earl Wide

Sorry, Earl Wild.

[meiting]

Lang Lang

Kissin

Serkin - (Rudolf)

hate to say it, but Schnabel (great interpretive vision, but wish he had better chops).

Ax

Pollini

just off the top of my head.

Schnabel was NOT overrated. And he has chops. What he didn't do was practice:) If you don't believe me, just listen to his recording of the Cello sonatas with Fournier. it's amazing playing.

Serkin also i must disagree with. Yes, he was the least of the great pianists, but he still did some very amazing things. And he's not overrated because he's not rated that high in the first place

[IgnazPaderewski]

Serkin on the whole is DREADFUL! he seems to have no feeling for piano tone whatsoever, in all the recordings I have heard (bar the Brahms 1 with Szell) is violent, incompetent and sluggish - I think he is incredibly overrated as a result of his position at marlboro (?)

Richter is WITHOUT DOUBT the most overrated pianist ever - 100000000000 times more than paderewski. He is a giftless bastard, and anyone who tries to say that there is any (pseudo)-profundity in his performance is a gobshite. and all his so-called remarkable technical achievements are not so impressive.... He omits every other lower note in the doubles in Feux Follets on the assumption that noone would be able to hear. Paderewski has some feeling for piano tone, whereas Richter simply does not. and a sleeping bag is a neccessity for a performance by SR of Schubert sonatas - BORING!!!!!! And he fucks up like you wouldn't believe on ocassion. And he either chooses to be over-pedantic with the score, or completely ignore it on a whim. Just listen to his performance of Beethoven op.22 in contrast with schnabels and see what an heartless dickwad he is.
give me Gilels any day!

[cziffra]

its nice to see some productive threads on this forum.  that was really profound, paderewski.

[liszmaninopin]

While I agree Richter might be overrated, his playing is not that bad, and certainly didn't warrant comments like that.  Could you do better?

[The Tempest]

- Lang Lang (I don't really see what's so good about him. His interpretations are a bit weird)

- Horowitz

- Schabel (I don't like his Beethoven sonatas)

- Paderewski (yucky playing)


Go ahead, Quote and Kill. I don't really care what you think. =P

[cziffra]

horowitz was possibly the most overrated pianist of all time- (or at least, he's vying for the spot against paderewski) why does everyone like him so much?

[Noah]

Schabel (I don't like his Beethoven sonatas)

It's funny that you insist on his Beethoven sonatas when that's what he's most renowned for.

[Hmoll]

Schnabel was NOT overrated. And he has chops. What he didn't do was practice:) If you don't believe me, just listen to his recording of the Cello sonatas with Fournier. it's amazing playing.

Serkin also i must disagree with. Yes, he was the least of the great pianists, but he still did some very amazing things. And he's not overrated because he's not rated that high in the first place

Serkin's playing always struck me as cold, and I never  really liked his sound.

I'll have to look up the Schnabel recording you refer to. I always wished his playing of the Beethoven sonatas was cleaner.

[meiting]

Serkin did have some nice moments: his Diabelli's very serious (on the whole very different from Schnabels, but I like them for different reasons), and his concerti are also very well done. Say what you like about his tone, he did deliver the seriousness of Beethoven better than anyone else. Schnabel, on the other hand, delivered the humour of beethoven better than anyone else

For the fournier recording: go to www.goodco.co.kr and look for Fournier Cello Works. If you can't find it or have problems getting it PM me.

[eddie92099]

horowitz was possibly the most overrated pianist of all time- (or at least, he's vying for the spot against paderewski) why does everyone like him so much?

One has to hear him live (so I'm told!),
Ed

[liszmaninopin]

Horowitz overrated?  Well, I suppose we're all entitled to our opinion, but I must respectfully and strongly disagree.

[Chitch]

I just realized Mei-Ting wasn't on this list.

































































































LOL j/k

[cziffra]

what?

[annrach3]

Jean-Yves bloody Thibaudet - he's all hairspray and fancy suits!  His playing (imo) has absolutely no depth or taste whatsoever - vulgar isn't the word! His repeated notes at the start of Scarbo come out like a machine-gun - hardly "fondu" as Ravel has expressly marked them.  He has a nice smile though- I'll give him that!  Another one whose playing I can't stand is Stephen Bishop/Kovacevich or whatever he's calling himself these days. His "celebrated" Beethoven sonata recordings for me are one of the most ugly things I've ever heard in my life- totally devoid any humanity- I can see why he got so jealous of Martha when they were living together- apparently she would get up, rub her eyes and sight-read flawlessly  passages he'd just been struggling with for hours - used to drive him nuts!

Wow...you are getting quite angry and gossipy here

[annrach3]

Bela Bartok is overrated, his music is so crap I can't believe anything he's created is in the RCM curriculum. I've heard a lot of his songs from both RCM's repertoire and recordings from the music archive in Toronto. Yet, I can't find one damn song that I would play. he makes me sick!

There is so much life and energy in Bartok's music. Don't you ever get tired of playing classical and romantic repertoire sometimes?? Playing Bartok is fun!!!!

[zhiliang]

Murray Perahia. His Chopin etudes were a big disappointment after all the hype.  

I will second that. I cant understand why he is receiving superb reviews from Grammophone for everything that he played, from Chopin Etudes to Bach to Beethoven Piano Concertos.

To me Lang Lang is overrated definitely, and also Evgeny Kissin, Vladimir Ashkenazy... Still thinking...

[zhiliang]

Perahia's etudes were flawless!

Though they are etudes but i guess playing jus flawlessly but without the essential poetry or feeling will never do. Thats only my personal opinion.