can anyone buy me this piano?

[pianistimo]

ok.  this is like a ferrari or something to me.  i want it so badly.

www.gregwilder.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1&Itemid=9

my teacher actually played the samples on here.  (part of the reason.  i mean, if he liked it enough to do that, it must be a good piano).

HELP.  i must get this piano before it is sold.  can someone help me help ehlpehlpeoehlpeode.

extends bass range to low F.
 
helepehoepeoeahdheopaf.  i need this piano.  i need it.  it is not just awant.  it is aneed.  a need.  i will die if i don't have this piano.  die. i say die die die.

WILL WORK FOR FOOD (i mean PIANO).

i can do many things.  will barter a thousand piano lessons.  lets see 65,000 would mean $65. per piano lesson.  ok.  1500 piano lessons.  does that sound better.  2000 piano lessons.  just consider it a lifetime of piano lessons.  please.  someone help me.

calling mr donald trump.  please come in.  i named my daughter ivana after your first wife. 

ok.  the next best thing is to have a ritzy hotel buy it and then i will come and play it for them.  that's ok.  but, no private person can buy this piano except me.  PLEASE.  noone buy this piano for a few days.

[pianistimo]

ok.  i also garden and sew.  how about a lifetime of piano lessons, free gardening services, sewing all your slipcovers and whatever sewing problems you have.  maybe a few meals.  i also clean very well.  oh.  and i stencil. 

pianowolfi, thalbergmad...single guys with money to burn?  ok. you're too far away.  anyone live closer.

[quantum]

ooooooooohh........I want one too.   

I've always wanted to hear what one sounded like. 

[kriskicksass]

The Bosendorfer is marvelous piano that has a marvelous novelty, but it isn't worth your money. The key weight isn't standard, and you have the choice of either having the extra keys throw you off as you glance into the bass to make a leap or not be able to use them at all (Bosendorfers have a little black panel that you can use to cover up the keys so it doens't mess you up...as much).There are arguments that the extra keys add resonance, and they absolutely do, but at what cost? If you practice for a recital on a Bosendorfer and then play on any other piano, it'll mess you up; if you practice for a recital on a standard piano and then play on a Bosendorfer, it'll mess you up.

At Ithaca College they have a Bosendorfer and a Steinway in their main recital hall. Whenever a touring pianist appears there, they play with the Bosendorfer and comment on what a nice instrument it is, but they almost always play on the Steinway for the standard action and number of keys. That should attest to the practicality of one of these pianos.

If you're in the market for a new piano (which I don't really think you are, you just want this one, right?), then why not save some money and get a nice Boston? I have a friend who just got one and according to him they play almost as nicely as Steinways, which makes sense because Steinway makes Bostons. Or, if you'd rather spend the money, get a Steinway instead of a Bosendorfer. Steinway is the standard, so you know you can't go wrong practicing on one of their instruments.

[gfiore]

 The touchweight on a Bösenforfer is pretty much the same as most other concert grands. Bosie specs are 55 grams in the bass, tapering to 48 grams up to treble note C88. Steinway specs are 52 grams in the bass, tapering to 47 grams up to treble note C88. There is a standard range that most manufacturers specify for their concert grands, give or take a few grams, the range is usually somewhere between 58 grams tapering to 46 at note C88.
 Bösendorfer has been using black ivorine key covering material for years for the 9 extra contra bass notes of the Imperial, and the four extra notes in the 225, and 275. The old black key cover has been long gone.
 And it is a laughable statement to say the added contra bass notes of it's keyboard would throw off your playing. Any competent pianist could adjust to the keyboard compass of one of these beauties in less than 15 minutes. Bösendorfer's are used in concerts all around the world, and have been endorsed for years by many of the greats from Leonard Bernstein, Andes Schff,  and Malcolm Frager, to Count Basie, Andre Previn, and Dave Brubeck.

[gfiore]

Pianistimo, do like the rest of us did. Work hard and save up your money so that one day you may have one too. It took me 15 and years and 5 pianos later until I had the $86,000 to purchse my Bosie model 214 two years ago.

[thalbergmad]

pianowolfi, thalbergmad...single guys with money to burn?  ok. you're too far away.  anyone live closer.

I suggest you try prostitution.

However, i guess that at 50 cents a time, it will take a few years to save up.

[quasimodo]

I have to say a Bosendorfer is my wildest dream...
However...
Well...
Nothing...
 

[teresa_b]

I made my offer this morning.  (Just kidding.  )

It's a beautiful piano, and your teacher plays gorgeously on it! 

Teresa

[pianistimo]

thanks kris, gifiore, and theresab!  it's good to have different perspectives to ponder things.  i did notice the easy touch in the treble.  the thing is - as one getsa little older - you don't want too heavy of touch either.  i'm weighing the two ideas because frankly, i've always preferred the steinway for that reason (the heavier sound and more control) - but now, am realizing that many performers use lighter pianos because of how much they are practicing and that they don't want injuries.

the thing is - i've always preferred steinway for the varous levels of touch, too.  but, there is an awfully attractive thing about the extra resonance and bass notes of the bosendorfer.  too bad there isn't a sort of combo of the steinway touch and bosie touch.  hmm.  sort of middle of the road.

well, you've both given me a lot of pause for thought.  i did start thinking last night - 'do i want light touch and more resonance - or heavier touch and more control?'  i think in terms of recording - i'd go with the steinway - but i think this piano in my own home for performing practice - it would be a dream.  yes. i know.  dream.

must start working (not the streets, thal)  somehow i knew you were going to make some snide comment.  it's all because i said thalberg was an illigitimate composer, right?  well, that's ok.  you can pay 50. cents in your dreams to whomever you wish.  i don't know of any hooker (actually i don't know any at all) that would go for any less than $100. for two minutes.  and take your wallet on top of that.

[pianistimo]

theresab,  i think it sounds really great too.  unfortunately, through this recording it sounds a little bit 'flimsy' or something in the treble (just slightly) - but for practicing faster things - don't you think a light touch would be good?

also, my piano teacher touched it.  who can think of a better reason to buy a piano than that?

could bosendorfer weight the keys a bit more in the treble for me if i (dream on) wanted to have a 'tighter' feel.  reigning it in a bit?

[teresa_b]

Hi pianistimo,

I like a "medium" sort of touch, for want of a better description.  A lighter action is definitely nice for fast passages, especially composers like Mozart.  If it's too light, it seems as you say "flimsy" or loose to me. 

I have a Steinway with very slightly heavier action than I prefer, but I find over the years it gets easier--either loosened a bit, or I am used to it. 

I think it's personal preference.  (And I'm glad you admire your teacher so much.  )

Good luck--
Teresa

[gfiore]

 Hey Pianistimo. if you read my first post, you will note that the touchweight of the Bösendofer is one gram heavier than the Steinway in the treble. The Renner action of the Bosie is much more fluid with faster repetition than the Steinway.  The quality control and materials used in the manufacture of the Bosie is leaps and bounds ahead of the Steinway, and the fact that many concert artists who perform on stage may use  a Steinway, but the growing majority have a Bosie for their home imstrument, should give you an idea of the popularity of this manufacturer's pianos.
 One thing to ponder.  Teachers are the worst to ask for when needing input (opinions) about pianos. Many don't have a clue about the other pianos out there. They are for the most part, under the hypnosis of the Steinway brand name on the fallboard, and if it is'nt a Steinway, it is'nt for them.

[pianistimo]

gfiore, you can bet if i was going to buy a piano - i'd pay for your advice.  in fact, i would ask if you would accompany me to the store. you sound very knowedgeable about pianos and what you should get for what price.  i don't want to overpay on something that isn't going to last. 

i should have caught that about the treble on the bosie.  now, the extremes of the two ends are wider on the bosie than the steinway, right?  so having it reigned in like that might be more controllable?  but, i also like the speed of execution on the bosie.  hmm.  it would be nice to just play, as you say, one at home and steinway on stage.  (or fazioli - again in my dreams.  or petrov).

i heard also something to the effect that moving large pianos is risky (no matter if bosie or steinway) because of the size and possibility of cracking it somewhere.  now, if my dream ever occurred - what do you do for transport from a private owner to your own home?  obviously they probably wouldn't pay for it.  how much would that cost?  who moves pianos without wrecking them?  just wondering.  maybe calling the bosendorfer company and telling them the problem?

[gfiore]

Professional pianos movers move pianos. You would never, ever get just plain furniture movers. The cost of shipping is usually not included in the sale if the piano is purchased from a private party. You would need to arrange the move. Short distance moves, 100 miles are less vary, but $480 per move(with one or two steps) is pretty standard. More than 1000 miles, and more than a few steps up or down will also increase the cost. Good movers don't come cheap. You get what you pay for, like anything else in life.
 Not to worry, moving large grands is not risky at all, as long as the movers know what they are doing. Pianos get shipped from Europe, and other places from around the world, get trucked many miles to the dealer or distributor's wharehouse, and hardly ever get damaged.
 Sitting at a Bosie keyboard is like sitting in front of any other grand piano. Yes the width of the Bosie is a few inches more, but the keys are still standard length and width, nothing different about it at all, except for the 4 or 9 contra bass notes which you would hardly ever use.
 I would never play a Steinway on stage. I prefer Bosie, Fazioli, and Bechstein. But that's just me. I service and tune many Steinways, and I know from many years experience that they are 'not' the standard piano of the world. There are many different flavors out there, why just have vanilla.

[pianowolfi]

pianowolfi, thalbergmad...single guys with money to burn?

Sorry pianistimo. No single. No money to burn. Actually I'm saving for a studio and a Steinway grand

[pianistimo]

that sounds very nice! 

i want to at least visit this person that is selling the piano.  but how?  i think they want to see money coming out of my purse.  hmm.  now i do have a hammond organ - that doesn't work.  and i have a kawaii that is about as old as i'm married 21 years.  (plus some - because i owned it before i was married).  i'd have to get rid of these to even make room for another piano - but it would be very very hard to get rid of the kawaii because i love it.  it is like a part of me.  if i got rid of it -  i would miss it instantly.  so, guess it would be cramming the two into one room together.   i don't know if i'd have to crawl over the top of the bosie to get to the kawaii or not.  must do some figuring.  in the meantime - nobody and i mean nobody touches that piano but me.  do you hear!  (*probably already sold).

[pianistimo]

ok.  i must get the details out about the kawaii. there is just no room for everything in the studio i have.  unless.  unless we put it in the living room.  there would be just that - a piano.  the couch would have to be in the basement.  there's no doubt it would look good in the livingroom.

[bella musica]

I hate it when people buy gorgeous pianos and never ever play them.  They should buy crappy ones that look fancy and leave the really good ones for us!!!  *jealous of people who can afford $150,000 pianos*   

[pianistimo]

well, i sort of like the price and the quality.  i mean for 1980's piano - it's in mint condition.  if only i had the money.  as you say - why didn't they play it for that price. 

how do you talk people down.  i need to go to the middle east and learn how to bargain.  i think it's all in the hands.

[iumonito]

I hate it when people buy gorgeous pianos and never ever play them.  They should buy crappy ones that look fancy and leave the really good ones for us!!!  *jealous of people who can afford $150,000 pianos*   

I agree that it is a shame to have a great piano sit unplayed in a living room.  I don't think that is the case with this particular instrument, which is a recording studio instrument.

I may one day change my mind, but I think there are very excellent pianos under $35,000 that make it not so hot to spend additional money (except if we are talking about fitting a concert hall, in which case you are talking another league).

[bella musica]

well, i sort of like the price and the quality.  i mean for 1980's piano - it's in mint condition.  if only i had the money.  as you say - why didn't they play it for that price. 

how do you talk people down.  i need to go to the middle east and learn how to bargain.  i think it's all in the hands.

Yep, wave your hands around a lot and try to act like the stereotypical 'starving artist who needs a new piano to express the sublime inspiration she is receiving from the gods'.  Then if that doesn't work, you should try going down on your knees in tears, and if that doesn't work, you can try swooning when you leave from the presence of the piano.  As a last resort you could leave a message on their phone containing a death threat if the piano is not delivered to pianistimo's place of residence within one week.

[pianistimo]

that sounds right.  unless.  unless i pray.  i will pray that noone will buy the piano except maybe a hotel around here.  yes.  that's what i will do.  talk a hotel into buying it.  must think, now.  OR, west chester university.  hmm.  as a concert stage piano.  but, i bet my teacher might have already done that - unless the piano is somewhat crap for $65,000 being that it might have been played too much to qualify for that price.  in which case, i could move my hands around while i tell them that false advertising will get them nowhere and hold up one of the hammers showing them that the felt is 1/8th inch to the bone.  unless they had it refelted.  in which case - i don't know.  as long as it hasn't been in a major accident.  i don't like complete jobs.  take everything out.  mess it up.  put it back. 

what if the weights are staggerred.

reading symphony has a new bosendorfer.  i heard marc-andre hamelin on it.  personally i couldn't hear the treble.  i want it in my home.

ok.  here's the idea.  i offer my home as a place for concert pianists to come and practice before they go to philly to play at the kimmel center.  i am only 30 miles away.  someone help me!  i'm serious about this.  i have a fairly new home 3-4 years and it has a big enough driveway for visitors.  the piano would be direct access in the studio right inside the front door to the left.  (that is, if i took out the organ and the kawaii).  i don't know where i'd get rid of them - but that is another story.  maybe the organ to a church?  the kawaii is in excellent condition for it's age.  although it needs a $200. regulation.  i could double as a sort of home away from home and let them sleep the night on some entertaiment center type black leather recliners in the livingroom.  no charge.  of course, i might be charged to hear them play.

[pianistimo]

ok.  want to keep the organ and upright and put this piano in the livingroom.  i measured again and it will fit - barely.  have to slightly walk around the piano to get to the kitchen - but it would be in the center of the house (much better than inside the front door - even though i'm putting double doors on the studio). 

now...am really serious about this.  i called him.  greg wilder.  and left a message.  next thing (bargain bargain) i want to first talk him out of the $500. for moving fees.  also, will the piano have to be sort of put back together?  who does that?  put the legs on?  is that a nother charge?  how much does that cost.  gfiore, would you consider going with me if they give me an appointment?  i am really wondering about all this.  it's a lot of money - but i'm serious about a performing career sometime int he near future.

[gfiore]

 P, the piano movers will do all the removing of the legs and pedal lyre for the move. If you purchase it, I would call O'mara & Meehan piano movers 800 938-0192. They're in the Philly area, and are who I use for all my moves. I trust no one else in the PA area. An instate move should be under $500 from O'Mara & Meehan
 Second suggestion. Call Rich Galassini at Cuningham Pianos in Germantown 215 991-0834. He would know about the piano you're interested in, as he probably sold to the party you would be purchasing from. Cunningham's is the area Bosie dealer.
 too far for me to go. Have Rich give you a local tech to go an evaluate the piano with you.

[pianistimo]

thank you so much for the advice!  i will call rich.  gary wilder bought this piano from an estate sale deal - and it was basically just furniture piano in 1985.  the only thing that he is not sure is if the piano was purchased in nyc or vienna and shipped.  i thought, wow.  then, he told me about how bosendorfers are made.  they are not made with lots of very thin pieces of wood laminated together.  they are actually totally made of spruce (the hardest wood - if i remember right) and have little slits made to bend them into configuration.  then, v chunks are inserted into the spaces.  cool, ehh.

now...no one can buy this piano until december or april of next year.  of course, it may go tommorrow.  in which case - my husband will be glad - but i will be depressed.  i know it is my piano.  it's like knowing you're supposed to have a pet.  this is my pet.  baby.  it is too good of a purebred to just watch fly by and never see again (which might happen - but at least i'll get to touch it).

appointment is scheduled to at least touch the piano.  it looks so nice!  and, i found out that it has an excellent weighting (not unstandard by any means - so far as i know).  he says it is unusal in that it has a heavier touch than some which i REALLY like.  i was going to be happy with the light touch - but for a half-concert grand (which is what he calls it) they are supposed to be very good for 'salon' type performances instead of concert hall performances. 

now, i don't have a deck off the kitchen double doors - so the doors stay shut and will keep the temperature really even in the livingroom.  if the piano is purchased - i hope that a few artists will come by and practice on it.  i think that being that i love piano - i'll only charge for coffee (each coffee they have to play a piece).  but, hopefully the money will fall into place.  i'm going to ask my husband about a down payment.  maybe get him a drink first and then - show him the piano - and then say - don't you think we need this. 

[pianistimo]

i was about to buy larry fine's book (and still might) 'the piano book' which appraises pianos - but then i found another free direct pricing (although i don't see them for the ages of the pianos).

www.bluebookofpianos.com/bosendor.htm

[pianistimo]

another thing i found is the same site which has brand new piano prices for all brands of pianos:

www.bluebookofpianos.com/Subscriber3925.htm

also www.bosendorfer.com  has some things here - but i can't read german-austrian language.  can anyone help me.  (1986 mint condition - model 225)  what do they say about pricing?  thanks for anyone who can read this.   

and lastly

how to obtain a technicians report.  do you ask the seller or the technician who most recently tuned it?  i understand that over humidity, heat/cold, animals, smoke, fire (the last three i'm pretty sure aren't a problem) but how would i find out if there has been humidity damage or hot/cold damage?   how do you check the strings and the sounding board?  i want to do the first inspection by myself (just in case it's really in mint condition and the tech sees it and buys it)

[quantum]

Pianistimo, you sound like you're getting serious about this.  If it does turn out to be the one you fall in love with, go for it! 

Maybe getting your hubby a drink and talking really fast with a series of questions that require a "yes" answer would be in order.   

[gfiore]

P, you pay an independent check of your choice to inspect the piano, not a tech that has serviced the piano you are looking at. You want an unbiased report. YOU will not be able to determine things that only a tech will notice, so spend the $100 to have it evaluated.
 The Blue Book prices are very innacurate. The list price of a new 225 is around $123,490 so with some discounting from the dealer (usally15%-22%) a new one could be had for around $101,000 plus sales tax. So the price that the seller is asking is in line with the pianos age, but negotiation on price is still possible. If the piano checks out, make the guy an offer. I doubt the piano is going any where really soon. It's difficult to sell expensive used pianos.
 A hint for you. When you go to www.bosendorfer.com  wait until after the page completely  loads, then click on english version in the bottom right hand corner. No prices are available on their web site.

[bearzinthehood]

my teacher actually played the samples on here.  (part of the reason.  i mean, if he liked it enough to do that, it must be a good piano).

Tell him that his rhythm in the Schumann is incorrect then.

[pianowolfi]

Tell him that his rhythm in the Schumann is incorrect then.

What's wrong there? I don't get it.

[bearzinthehood]

What's wrong there? I don't get it.

The E in measure two is a sixteenth note, it should be played as 4 against 3.  He's playing triplets vs. triplets.  He repeats the same thing throughout the piece.

[pianistimo]

he was probably sightreading it on a moments notice.  he plays with a lot of accuracy when he's practiced.  he's not known for this kind of stuff on his cd recordings.  also, hearing a 4 against three is really not a technical problem for him at this point - so maybe he even sorta chose to make it sound 'smoother.'  he's definately a 'romantic' pianist and plays with milk chocolate smoothness.

ok.  thank you, gfiore, for pointing out the english translation of the bosie web site.  and, the idea of just having rich come along when i somehow get the money to make a deal.  i'm sure he could tell more about the piano instantly than i could with hours of scouring the soundboard underneath and above.  and, besides, what if i dropped a heavy flashlight intot he thing.  then i'd have to buy it.  hahahahah.  ok.  i'll bring the flashlight. (just kidding)

now looking at the strings - can you actually see where the strings have a sort of vague limp.  like sort of hanging down sadly?

next thing.  i filled out publisher's clearing house supreme urgent 1 million prize envelope awarded in three weeks.  if you see me on television - don't bother believing when i say 'i don't know' what i'm going to do with the money.  it will be a portion to buy the piano and charity for the poor.

i know.  dream on.  i asked my husband and he laughed this morning.  he said - 'i remember when i was a child and kept going into the hi-fi store in our neighborhood and wanted some 'woofers.'  whatever that is.'  then - he makes it sound like my request is an impossible dream.  i told him it wasn't impossible and that i would find a way.  then he reminded me of an upscale hotel in skippack that is a sort of 'million dollar' oasis hidden away.  now, once this hotel gets going (which i don't know if it will just bust) i think they'll have money to burn.   

[pianistimo]

well, things are not getting any easier.  i have a splitting headache.  first, we work out that we are going together, but my husband is becoming such a tease.  i am NOT bringing him.  i say NOT.

he's turning this into a monty python 'flying lessons' show.   'oh, off to play the grand piano, are we?'  (two years later - guys in the cockpit -after much arguing with the guy floating above his desk)

[quantum]

Buy your husband those woffers now, or whatever toy he wants at the moment.  If he gets a new toy he will play with it day and night, leaving you to manage the financial situation for the Bose. 

[pianowolfi]

The E in measure two is a sixteenth note, it should be played as 4 against 3.  He's playing triplets vs. triplets.  He repeats the same thing throughout the piece.

I still don't get it, I hear the e coming after the f# of the triplet middle voice

[pianistimo]

he's generally pretty right on when it comes to things like this. 

well...quantum, i didn't have to buy him the woofers.  we both finally came to an agreement.  the price range is beyond us.  but, we had fun looking and also learned some new things about bosie's.

first thing (about this particular piano).  it's shape is not the usual curve - but a sort of straight line meets the curve.  it's an unusual shape.  also, right in the curve (where singers stand) there is a knob.  i asked 'what is this for?'  he said, 'it is for locking the lid.  you turn it, and a lock goes into place.  it doesn't look bad or anything.  it was just a surprise.  the whole exterior of the piano is unscratched as far as i could see.

now, interesting thing about the pedals, too.  the sostenuto - normally on pianos - starts somewhere below mid-C and to the bass.  well, on a bosie (or at least this one) it encompasses the ENTIRE keyboard.  so, if you play a chord and then want a sustain - you've got it for a long time.  i played some bach, and it was cool to experiment.

also, the frame is very different looking.  i asked him if it was iron because it looked lighter weight.  he said either iron (covered with something) or steel.  it looked like something lighter weight but just as able to hold things together.  not sure what it is covered with - but sort of gold colored.

the strings are looking beautiful.  the action is ok (a little lighter than i prefer - but some like it this way).  mr. wilder is extremely nice and has taken excellent care to keep the piano humidified in the winter and he has curtains that block the sun.  it is in an excellent location.  everything about the piano and bench is solid.  there are four black notes (Ab, G, Gb, F).  surprisingly, they did not color black the ends, but only the tops of the keys.  is this standard?  i kinda wondered on that, but just ok with it.  (could always add black fingernail polish - yuk).

he has kept it from heat/cold.  i guess that all in all - if we had the money to burn it would be a 'salon' piano.  the sound is a little bit lighter -but we were in a very large room with 13 foot ceilings.  he said with carpet and lower ceilings that it would sound louder. 

now, i'm thinking price-wise only (to help my husband not have a heart attack) maybe a kawaii grand.  a little stiffer action, maybe tighter pedalling (which some don't like - but i do), and better price.  but, i know that you get what you pay for - and the bosie is certainly nothing to scoff at.  it's just a very light sounding and light playing piano.  probably very good for professional pianists who want to warm up on all their rep without killing themselves.  after practicing on my kawaii - i sort of want another one - kawaii grand - but not sure yet.  we'll see.  i don't want to get rid of the studio upright because it tunes really well.  have to start working harder and saving money.

[teresa_b]

I just listened to the recording of your teacher's Schumann again, and he plays it with exactly the right rhythm! 

Sounds like you have decided against this piano.  Now that you've played it, you realize it isn't what you really want for all that $$$.  It was a neat experience, wasn't it?

Teresa

 

[pianistimo]

a true learning experience.  i would say (for the price) that i am really happy with my upright.  i feel more in control of what will happen.  i would say it is the difference between a 'commanding' piano and a 'romantic debussy' sound.  it's just preference - when you get into these high price ranges.  i personally, am beginning to trust my preferences in sound.  at first i just wanted to copy my teacher.  but, i think we all have different tastes and although i love his playing on the samples -it's probably not reason enough to buy that particular piano. 

sometimes i go out of the house without my brain.  but, i came back fully serious and comprehending the outcome of getting a piano that isn't quite my style yet.  i think the kawaii will be.  and, my husband won't have a heart attack.

besides - the middle child now needs braces on her lower teeth.  she might be a little irritated by a grand piano taking all the money and her having to eat beans. 

it's so funny - too, because (maybe my husband asked the pastor to say this) the sermon was about 'bargains.'  he said that if you cut a bargain that sounds too good - there's no sacrifice involved and you don't get what you are looking for.  perhaps if i worked for the money instead of begging for it - i'd not only get what i wanted but also experience the satisfaction of saying 'this is purely and soley my piano.'  (after 10 more years).  that's ok.  i can wait for the right one.  besides - i'm still thinking about the hotel around the corner and going there on monday to convince them to buy this piano.  it IS beautiful and i would probably go and play on it for free if i convinced them to purchase.  they would keep it airconditioned and probably buy the humidifier to go near it in the winter. 

[chickering9]

...now, interesting thing about the pedals, too.  the sostenuto - normally on pianos - starts somewhere below mid-C and to the bass.  well, on a bosie (or at least this one) it encompasses the ENTIRE keyboard.  so, if you play a chord and then want a sustain - you've got it for a long time.  i played some bach, and it was cool to experiment.

If the middle pedal on a piano is only for sustain in the bass below middle C, it is not properly called "sostenuto", but merely something like "bass damper" or "bass sustain"--wholly different mechanism, usually found on less expensive grands. 

True sostenuto, which is common on most decent grands, functions as you say for that Boesendorfer.  Its design and function are really quite simple on a grand.  Any note that is down at the time the sostenuto pedal is pressed will sustain until you let off the pedal, with all other notes not so depressed at the time the pedal went down will remain normally damped (or may be treated with the regular right-hand damper pedal--if you can manage two-footed pedalling).

[pianistimo]

thanks for explaining all this.  i had no idea there was a complete sostenuto on these pianos and that others were 'lacking' so to speak and should more accurately be called 'bass sustain' pedal. 

these bosie's are a dream, really.  i knew it was a dream going in and definately going out.  it's nice to have thousands of dollars - but i'm realizing that it doesn't necessarily fill all your musical needs.  i mean - if i had a steinway, bosie, fazioli and petrov  - i might be content to have a piano for each of my pieces of repertoire.  the bosie for romantic stuff, the steinway for beethoven and mozart, the fazioli for scarlatti (fast repetitions?) , and the petrov for mussorgsky?.  just thinking - what if...

[bearzinthehood]

I still don't get it, I hear the e coming after the f# of the triplet middle voice

It does come after, it's just too late.  He's subtracting from the value of the E in the top voice and adding to the value of the F# in the top voice.

[pianistimo]

??  first you said he was playing triplets against triplets.  anyhew, it's a sound sampling not a recording.  i think it's good enough for me to hear the quality of the piano.  it has a lighter sound, to me. also, the keys go down at a moments notice.  i find more control in stiffer pianos.  just playing loudly, chromatically all the way up the keyboard does not prove to me that the action is wonderful.  it's the very minute things such as key depression and repeated notes that speak worlds of the action to me.  at least the action that i want (which may not occur with bosie's).  anyway, it's what the pianist in question prefers, i guess.

[bearzinthehood]

Look, I listened to it again.  Either he's playing it wrong or my score is wrong.  Just type the score into some music authoring software and listen to it and see for yourself...

Anyways, I'm done arguing about it, it's pointless.  You refuse to believe me because you're used to hearing this piece played this way.

[pianistimo]

do you often critique sound samples?  if i plugged it into a software correction and found it was off incrementally -i'd say it was a human playing.

[teresa_b]

Look, I listened to it again.  Either he's playing it wrong or my score is wrong.  Just type the score into some music authoring software and listen to it and see for yourself...

Anyways, I'm done arguing about it, it's pointless.  You refuse to believe me because you're used to hearing this piece played this way.

Why don't you record it the way you believe it should sound and post it in the "Audition Room"?

Teresa

[pianistimo]

i started thinking about haifetz and the tchaikovsky violin concerto.  seems that very advanced artists can sort of get away with maintaining the 3 against 4 and still do little 'artistic things' that us students aren't supposed to do until we are very advanced.

you learn first how to make everything 'even.'  you learn all the rules of theory.  then as you get into graduate and doctorate work - you start breaking some of them.  that's what separates genuine artists from sounding like robots.  it's something that was  a revelation to me, too, because i thought everything was cut in stone.

[pianowolfi]

Why don't you record it the way you believe it should sound and post it in the "Audition Room"?

Teresa

Yeah, now i think I know what bearzin means. That's how he claim's it's played by pianistimo's Teacher (I guess)





 He means it' s overdotted. And that's how it should be played in bearzin's opinion:




Ok I like it both ways. Maybe a slight overdotting has a sort of tradition? Because I think I've heard it often played like that. But I'll listen more specifically in the future

[iumonito]

The E in measure two is a sixteenth note, it should be played as 4 against 3.  He's playing triplets vs. triplets.  He repeats the same thing throughout the piece.

That's a notation convention.  Because of rubato you can play them before or after the left hand (which keeps a steady tempo), as long as they sound like a melody.  I recommend you explore period performance practices before you go around preaching that anyone is doing something wrong.  It only bespeaks the limitations in your understanding.