jaws

[pianistimo]

my kids are watching it again.  the little one keeps putting her head down.  i say, 'turn it off - fold the laundry.'  now, the laundry pile will have new meaning (as a shark attacks out of the laundry).

[thalbergmad]

What in the name of bloody hell are you wittering on about now??

Thalx

[ihatepop]

What in the name of bloody hell are you wittering on about now??

Thalx

I think shes talking about her children watching the movie 'jaws' (cmon, everyone knows this movie!) and she wants them to fold the laundry and the little one is scared. (She should be married).

[ada]

She should be spending quality time folding the laundry with them instead of wasting time on internet forums 

[thalbergmad]

She should be spending quality time folding the laundry with them instead of wasting time on internet forums 

Only the girls should be taught folding laundry.

It will come in usefull in later life.

Thal

[mephisto]

I recommend reading the Bible.

[thalbergmad]

I recommend reading the Bible.

I might be wrong, but i imagine there is a lot of Bible reading going on in the Pianistimo household.

One can imagine the conversation.

Baby Pianistimo - Mummy, can you read me the Gospel according to St John tonight.

Mummy Pianistimo - No, you must learn Psalm 27 and recite it back to your father when he gets home.

Baby Pianistimo - oh mmmmommeeeeeeeeee, plezeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Mummy Pianistimo - Go to bed and there will be no Leviticus for you tomorrow.

[mephisto]

I might be wrong, but i imagine there is a lot of Bible reading going on in the Pianistimo household.

One can imagine the converstion.

Baby Pianistimo - Mummy, can you read me the Gospel according to St John tonight.

Mummy Pianistimo - No, you must learn Psalm 27 and recite it back to your father when he gets home.

Baby Pianistimo - oh mmmmommeeeeeeeeee, plezeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Mummy Pianistimo - Go to bed and there will be no Leviticus for you tomorrow.

Legendary

But what does pinistissimo really feel about the old testament?

[thalbergmad]

Legendary

But what does pinistissimo really feel about the old testament?

Depends what pills she is on i guess.

Thal

[jre58591]

just to point out: there is more violence and sex in the old testament (or bible, for that matter) than in jaws.

[thalbergmad]

There is also more fish in the Old Testament than in jaws.

Thal

[ada]

There is also more fish in the Old Testament than in jaws.

Thal

and more nonsense

[pianistimo]

i don't quite know where to start.  so much has happened since my server went down and i had to pay attention to my children.  the little one went to the park and then there were two other girls that kept asking me to push them on the swing and help them go across the monkey bars.  so, i get home exhausted,a nd then i am forced to make lunch.  then , i see that my son has jsut gotten up at 12 NOON.  what is he doing at night?  i have totally lost control.  i babble something incoherent to him like 'you cannot stay up anymore.  next wednesday is school.'  blah blah blah. 

when i get out the bible - they all scramble in different directions and look busy.  i don't know if they even know any scripture.  this is terrible to say.  several times i have used the bulletin board downstairs near the fridge and written a whole scripture out for them to meditate on.  thanks for reminding me!  i have to say 'on pain of death - you shall not erase this - as it usually gets erased when i'm off doing something else and replaced with 'misha is a bugger.'  or something like that. 

i tell you...if any of you has children or nephews or nieces - just take them for a day and see how much energy you have in the evening.  i can barely move right now.  supposedly they keep you young.  it was kinda fun being in the kindergarten class.  it brings back a sort of dejavu.  i could already read in first grade and i remember talking a lot because i was bored.  so, the teacher told me because i could already read that i could teach some of the other kids how.  it made me feel so important i still remember it.  her name was mrs. sieber.  she was always so nice.  kindergarten and first grade teachers are the nicest.  then, after that - they get mean.

[thalbergmad]

and more nonsense

Indeed, although it pains me to agree with you.

Looking at Exodus Chapter 7 verse 10:

"Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh and before his servants, and it became a serpent"

Now come on, not even David Copperfield could do that.

There must be many more examples.

Thal

[pianistimo]

thal, seriously - david copperfield is no more than pharoah.  he couldn't perform miracles because he has satan's spirit.  it is limited to physical tricks and not real miracles.  i mean, sure you can have illusions.  but that is all. 

you want to know power?  look to God.  He can do anything.  'i can do all things, through Christ, who strengthens me.'  if we knew how much power the spoken word has - we'd use it more carefully (myself included).  the trouble is, we box ourselves into paradigms that we relate to instead of freeing ourselves from any sort of 'definition' of the limitations of God.

as i see it - God is limitless.

[pianistimo]

in acts, when the apostles are told to go and preach the gospel to the world and be a witness - they are told that they have the power to 'heal the sick' and that if any poisonous snake bites them - it will have no effect on them. 

what i've noticed with hollywood, is that it tries to 'glamorize' the life of Christ and devalue the lives of Christians who are supposed to be walking in Christ's footsteps.  if you value the morality of the bible - then you are automatically categorized as a judging type of personality that won't allow your children to eat candy.  that you do not make reasoned judgements.  etc. etc.

the reality is that Christ says he chooses the 'weak' to confound the 'mighty.'  we may not have the education sometimes as a doctor or lawyer - but we can confound others when we speak God's own words.  that is what confounds people.  you cannot argue what God has made certain.  it either HAS happened.  IS happening.  or IS GOING to happen.  there's no doubt in my mind.  if He says it - it's going to be. 

now, pertaining to the times at hand - you have one side saying - mankind will be living like this indefinately and Christ will not return.  in the bible, on the other hand, it says 'watch - and be aware' for you do not know when your Master will return.  (paraphrasing).  so, if Christ is our Master, we should be doing things right now that will please Him.  He is not a harsh task master - but a SHepherd who gives us an example (his own life) of serving others.  i often think about this and wish i wouldn't complain when i do little things for others - but instead enjoy it.  that is what we are supposed to do. enjoy serving others. 

[pianistimo]

ps   about the pharoah bit.  did you realize that the old testament is literally a record of thousands of deliverances by God for the people of israel?  that He will again deliver them mightily.  it may sound impossible in our day and age - but don't you find it ironic that there is STILL such a nation as israel.  something to think about.

[ada]

Indeed, although it pains me to agree with you.

Aw Thal don't be pained

[mephisto]

as i see it - God is limitless.

Wrong!

NO1:
Can God make a stone that is so heavy that he can`t lift it himself? If he can he isn`t limitless. If he can`t he is not limitless.

NO2:
If God is limitless, he should now everything that will happen in the future. This means that God can`t do anything. HE HAS NO POWER AT ALL.

 

[pianistimo]

he hasn't replied yet, ada.  don't be too hasty.  thal is reading his bible as we speak, probably.  the thing is - there are MANY verses that can be confusing at times.  i mean, in the old testament there are things that seem that should be forbidden (four wives, thousands of children) and then there are things that are forbidden that seem like they should be allowed (to us).  i mean picking up sticks on the sabbath is probably a rule that has been broken a million times now - and noone is dead over it.  but, it doesn't mean that God doesn't stick to His own rules.

as i see it.  we are imperfect from day one.  we are basically born selfish.  to be anything other than selfish takes the Holy Spirit's work.  we cannot suddenly one day say 'i think i'm going to be a saint.'  it's a calling.  God calls us  - just like we sometimes decide to call our children to come over and do a job.  God says 'hey, i've got a job for you.  stop doing what you're doing right now and go and do something different.'  at first, it is a big pain in the *.  you cannot at the moment you want to do something - happily go do something else.  but, then, you see for the sufferring or pains that God's will causes you - an immediate feeling of joy. it's like you see for the first time a bigger plan than just yourself.  i'd say it's like maturing spiritually.  you first start out a baby and make a lot of mistakes just as you did when you were physically growing up.  then, you outgrow wanting to party and drink or do whatever you did before you came to Christ.  i wasn't much of a partier, really, but i had low self esteem and didn't feel 'worthy.'  Christ makes us worthy to be with him simply by BeING.  all you have to be is YOURSELF.  this society makes people feel like they have to be someone else - or like others.  that isn't freedom.  to have to fit into other's ideas instead of God's.  what if His are simpler! 

what if all that is required is to love God and love your neighbor as yourself.  this is the whole law, summed up.  there is no mention of dressing alike, paying huge taxes, scrimping on gas (since in the bible they never used cars int he first place - but i'm not sure how the future will be - will we have gasless cars?)  i'm all for invention and technology - but somehow it seems that it also eats a lot of our time that could be devoted to others and to God.  now, i look at the computer and say - ok.  i can choose to go on - or choose to read the bible.  how much time have i read the bible in the past week.  if it is little or zero - i go read the bible.  it sets my mind into a different frame of thinking.  not so much about details as a big picture.  that i'm important to God.  that God wants me to bring knowledge of Himself to others.  and, that in the long run - all the bad news in the world cannot stop the good news of the gospel of peace.   and, that Christ will soon return!

[pianistimo]

mephisto,  Christ himself is the 'cornerstone' or first huge block in the temple.  many people HAVE tripped over Him.  but, He does not cause people to trip.  He even says that people stumble over Him and yet if anyone does not feed His children - he says they will be likened to someone with a millstone about their neck. 

why would God cause us to have to pick up a stone (or make Himself) be picked up.  his burden is light.  in fact, the lightest travel in the world is to travel with God.

about the future.  1/3 of the bible IS prophecy and it is very detailed.  He is returning very soon to the mount of olives near jerusalem.  every eye is said to be able to see Him at His return.  and many will look away in shame.  shame over what?  if everyone is really doing what is good and right - why would they be ashamed.  maybe it's because people are not doing what is right - but they convince others that it is?  maybe they know in their hearts and will be found out at the ressurrection.

[mephisto]

mephisto,  Christ himself is the 'cornerstone' or first huge block in the temple.  many people HAVE tripped over Him.  but, He does not cause people to trip.  He even says that people stumble over Him and yet if anyone does not feed His children - he says they will be likened to someone with a millstone about their neck. 

why would God cause us to have to pick up a stone (or make Himself) be picked up.  his burden is light.  in fact, the lightest travel in the world is to travel with God.

about the future.  1/3 of the bible IS prophecy and it is very detailed.  He is returning very soon to the mount of olives near jerusalem.  every eye is said to be able to see Him at His return.  and many will look away in shame.  shame over what?  if everyone is really doing what is good and right - why would they be ashamed.  maybe it's because people are not doing what is right - but they convince others that it is?  maybe they know in their hearts and will be found out at the ressurrection.

Your mindless rambling is confusing.

You didn`t proof me wrong.

[prometheus]

It is very simple. If god is all powerful then that is a contradiction in terms. Nothing can be all powerful. The 'god can't create a stone he can't lift' seems lame. But it isn't. It just shows you that the concept is absurd.

When I was very young I had a religion class teacher that 'revealed' the stone-argument. I thought that was very cleaver. I never could have figured that out for myself, I thought when I heard this. This means that to me the idea of something almighty must have been so acceptable that I couldn't even find an argumant against it if I had tried.

Then the teacher just disregarded the argument as a play of words, not spending a single word on it.

The 'god cannot create a stone he cannot lift' is a reductio ad absurdum example of the 'god is all powerful'-premise. We take the premise and put it into a context where it generates unfavorable, or absurd, results. In this case the reductio ad absurdum leads to a contradictio in terminus. Here the resulting contradiction is the absurdity.


But also, god is all knowing and eternal. Both of these contradict with all powerful as well.

Now one can claim that this is all word play and that our words don't apply to god. But if that is true then why does Pianistimo make such long posts? If human language cannot be used to talk about god then what use does the bible have?

So if that is true then we can't say anything about god. It would mean we can no longer practice religion.

Or God is not all powerful. This would mean gods power is limited. It would mean the bible is wrong about those few lines that actually tell us was 'god' is. Since we know that this is wrong we don't know anything about god. The only things we knew was that god was 'something' that was all powerful, all knowing, holy and eternal. So then we are left with something that is holy. Holy is a strange word in itself as well, very vague. So god may be an object that I trash around in my room here. It may be my Sorabji CD. It is a 'something' and it is 'holy'.

Of course the bible also claims that god created everything. But we already knew that was false and about every christian has already accepted the falicity of the bible here. Excluding a few fundamentalists that are beyong any form of reason and discussion, of course.


The reason for all this is very simple. The more you 'fill in' the concept of god the more falsifiable it becomes. Of course religious people know that the only way they can fill in the concept of god is with their own imagination. And they know that this has almost certainly no relevance to reality. This is why they keep 'god' empty. Because then no one can say that god is false. Nothing cannot be false.


God is nothing.

[nortti]

What if our logics is just an approximation of the real logics the universe follows (kind of like how Newton's physics is an approximation of Einstein's): the laws work in 'normal' situations but don't when we go to extremes like infinities and godly stuff like that. Maybe trying to prove things about gods and such using our logics just won't work and is useless..
Just a thought.

[pianistimo]

that's exactly the way i see it.  i will never fully understand the definition of God until i become like Him - which is what He promises at the ressurrection.  we know we are made in His image (male/and female) but we don't know what 'we shall be.'  we've never been spirit.  we are physical.  physical brains are physically unable to comprehend the fullness of the spirit.  but, people CAN be filled with the Holy Spirit at baptism.  they still see through a glass darkly - but they can begin to imagine the good things that God has in store for those that love Him.  all you need is a profession of love for God.  He doesn't require a complete understanding.  otherwise, He would have revealed Himself more fully, imo.  even Moses didn't get a good look.  and Moses was very close to God.  he only saw His back.  but, then the disciples actually saw the form of Jesus Christ on earth and felt his presence even after the ressurrection.  Christ realized they were afraid when he reappearred and asked them to look at His hands and feet.  then, while they were 'amazed' - he asked if they had any food that He might eat.  that's the biggest joke i ever heard.  here they are 'just oogling' and he's casually saying - 'what's there to eat.'  to me, God is not only  Holy, but loving, funny, entertaining, refined, appreciates quality, is a king, a lord, a savior, and an example of a shepherd who cares for the entire flock and not just a few. 

[prometheus]

What if our logics is just an approximation of the real logics the universe follows

We don't have anything but human logic. If this 'real logic that transcends humans' exist we will never know. To talk about its existence is pure speculation. There can never be any indication that it exists. Because the moment that we know something about it then it obviously does not transcend us humans and then it is no longer what it is supposed to be.

Maybe trying to prove things about gods and such using our logics just won't work and is useless..
Just a thought.

Then we can't know or say anything about god.

[pianistimo]

God reveals Himself by the giving of His Holy Spirit at baptism.  before you are baptized, you are 'the old man.'  the selfish man.  the one that sees only #1.  after that - you are seeing the difference between living for yourself (as adam and eve chose - their own tree of knowledge) or God (the tree of life).

leading up to this point is the reading of scripture.  in acts, it mentions philip (acts 8:31) explaining scripture to the eunuch (about the book of isaiah).  he could not understand it - so he asked philip who had the Holy Spirit.  philip preached Jesus (who isaiah foretold would come)  and then the eunuch immediately wanted to be baptized. 

[alejo_90]

thal, seriously - david copperfield is no more than pharoah.  he couldn't perform miracles because he has satan's spirit.

What the hell was that ?

[mephisto]

God reveals Himself by the giving of His Holy Spirit at baptism.  before you are baptized, you are 'the old man.'  the selfish man.  the one that sees only #1.  after that - you are seeing the difference between living for yourself (as adam and eve chose - their own tree of knowledge) or God (the tree of life).

leading up to this point is the reading of scripture.  in acts, it mentions philip (acts 8:31) explaining scripture to the eunuch (about the book of isaiah).  he could not understand it - so he asked philip who had the Holy Spirit.  philip preached Jesus (who isaiah foretold would come)  and then the eunuch immediately wanted to be baptized. 

WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?

[alejo_90]

God reveals Himself by the giving of His Holy Spirit at baptism.  before you are baptized, you are 'the old man.'  the selfish man.  the one that sees only #1.  a

So Jesus was a selfish bastard before John baptized him.
And do you think you have a sense of what's selfishness when you're baptized with only 1 or 2 years of age?

That's nonsense !

[pianistimo]

if Christ is our example, then we should follow him.  He was baptized at 30 - when He had complete understanding of what He was doing.  He himself said of teaching, 'line upon line, here a little - there a little.  just as we teach piano lessons a little at a time, children can be taught about God by example.   after all, Christ didn't ever keep children away from himself.

also, about the supposed Church repression of sex.  i think that is a catholic doctrine that sex is sin.  it is not a sin in other churches.  in fact, sex is just another topic discussed sometimes in sermons.  i remember a blazing sermon about 'the song of solomon.' this was before i was married (so i didn't fall asleep that day - which i usually didn't fall asleep - but you know what i mean). 

without God, sex takes on a meaningless attribute of 'love' due to societal 'norms.'  but, what if God's standards are better?  who can tell us what will make us love our future mate the most?  perhaps it is not comparing them with anyone else?  i think God has it all figured out.  i look to the bible to guide my spirituality and sex life, too.  when you read that it is wrong to sleep with a same sex partner, or an animal - you immediately tune out temptations that come from that direction.  lesbianism or homosexuality is not as attractive when you realize that God puts a curse ( a literal curse) on people who do not keep the law - no matter if they understand the law or not.  it's like laws of physics.  they happen when you do this negatively, or this - positively.

now, about the song of solomon. people think that is a description of solomon just getting it on with a harem.  but, in actuality it is a sort of sad story that solomon is telling.  after making out with probably 50 women, he finally finds the 'love' of his life.  he is seemingly so hot for her he tells about his dreams.  but, what is probably the most attractive about this woman is that she is unavailable.  she has a love of her own and cannot stop thinking of him.  she closes her mind to anyone else -even solomon in all his glory, fame and riches.  so, he realizes that true love is not something you can buy.

i believe the man who gave the sermon was quoting an interpretation by the 'new bible commentary' of motyer.  he had us section the parts that were:  the harem, the shullamite (woman he loved), solomon, and the shepherd (Christ - in essence - whom the woman loved).

so i color coded the book and it came out to mean something entirely different than another conquest of solomon's.  the first few verses - solomon is trying to warm up the woman by telling her about the 'kisses of her mouth.'  then in verse 5-7 she makes excuses why she is not right for solomon (since she was taken from her location of caring for vineyards - but her real excuse is to come - she doesn't want to be part of a harem).  then, the women of the harem try to include her and seduce her into being just like them.  in verse 8, solomon tries another approach - and makes her now think that she should miss him by 'going back to her shepherd life' as though somehow that would make her miss his riches after seeing them.  but, he says she looks like she belongs in a supposedly higher class situation because of her beauty.  he wants to give her jewelry, next.   

in verses 12-14 she puts her mind toward her own shepherd lover (interesting that the man is a shepherd as Christ is).  when she thinks of her own lover, she gets hot.  NOT over solomon.  we know she is referring to her own love - when she mentions the vineyard of engedi.  her beloved is not solomon.

you can almost hear solomon going 'rats.  this woman is hard to get.'  and flatters her again in verse 15.  but the shullamite prefers the original man and talks about the cedars (the trees of the field) being her beams of the house and the rafters,cypresses.  she doesn't need riches.  her couch is luxurious grass.  she considers her beloved handsome and pleasant (we don't knwo what he looked like - but even if he looked less than solomon - he was who she was dreaming of).

i could go on for the entire book with the notes - but people can read for themselves from this commentary.  anyway - if people think the bible has nothing to say about sex - they should read the song of solomon from this perspective.  verse 7:10 speaks of the shullamite's rejection of solomon and love and wanting to return to her beloved.  ' i am my beloved's, and his desire is for me.  come my beloved, let us go out into the country (not into solomon's forced palace), let us spend the night in the villages.  let us rise early and go to the vineyards; let us see whether the vine has budded (other christians are there) and its blossoms have opened, and whether the pomegrantes have bloomed.  there i will give you my love...both new and old, which i have saved up for you, my beloved.'

after i heard this sermon so many years ago - i thought, 'wow, God really thinks of everything.'  He obvously inspired the bible to teach us about everything in life. 

[prometheus]

I was baptised. Therefore I must know as much as you about god. I don't know anything about god. Therefore, you don't either.

Or you are lying.

[pianistimo]

baptism is no more than a marriage ceremony binding you to Christ.  if you are married at birth can you have a relationship at that age.  i say no.  get baptized again at an older age - and understand what you are committing to - and i think you, prometheus, will not suffer from it.

basically, you are committing your life to God.  you trust Him.  if you are not trusting Him completely right now and are trusting in human knowledge - you will not get past the 'selfish' stage (as i call it).  when you commit to God - you still have plenty of time for science - but you also start filling in gaps in your life that are unfilled.  i'm not saying girlfriend/marriage - i'm saying ANYONE.  an older person who needs you to help them occasionally.  a younger child who needs help.

you may already be doing this with your own family or extended friends/family.  and, good for you!  just keep it up.  God never makes the claim that His christian family is perfect.  we are imperfect - as others say.  but, He makes up the rest.  He covers our sin.  at death- we are given life eternal.  what science can do that?

[alejo_90]

I still disagree about calling a non-baptized "in his/her selfish stage". I think it's actually very selfish to say that kind of thing.

Best
Alex

[donjuan]

why would God cause us to have to pick up a stone (or make Himself) be picked up.  his burden is light.  in fact, the lightest travel in the world is to travel with God.