Controversial issues - Left or Right?

[chopiabin]

This may end up degenerating into another version of the religious debate room, but hopefully people will post their opinions and at least attempt to justify them.

Where do people stand on abortion, gay marriage, the death penalty, etc.? I stick with the left on these issues, especially the first two. In my opinion, no one has the right to deny others freedom. Before anyone starts, I do not believe that a clump of cells in the first trimester of development is a human being.

Chop (I'm 18 tomorrow, and I'm going to vote any way that gets Bush out of office )

[schnabels_grandson]

Where do people stand on abortion, gay marriage, the death penalty, etc.? I stick with the left on these issues, especially the first two. In my opinion, no one has the right to deny others freedom. Before anyone starts, I do not believe that a clump of cells in the first trimester of development is a human being.

Abortion:  I think that this should not even be an issue: control yourself and you wont need to abort anything.  As it is though, I would say that if a woman can choose to have sex, she can also live up to the consequences of unwanted pregnancies, especially when these come about from promiscuity.  

Homosexual marriage:  What's the point?  Taxes?  Give me a break.  Marriage is supposed to be the union of two people for the purpose of creating children and loving each other, not living with someone whose sexual organs are incompatable.  However, our founding fathers never expected later generations to be so debauched, so they made no laws against this kind of behavior.  Let them do it though.  I think the whole controversy over it just gives homosexuals the attention they love more than their own perversions.

Death penalty:  I think this one is great.  If you are going to kill someone, you should die in turn.  Not to mention how much money it saves the state, not having to pay for some creep to eat 3 meals a day (plus countless other benefits given to prisoners) for the next 50 years.    

Freedom is a very interesting word.  It always makes me smile to think about people who asume that their freedom is secure, or that just being allowed to do certain things makes them ok.      

[jeff]

Abortion:  I think that this should not even be an issue: control yourself and you wont need to abort anything.  As it is though, I would say that if a woman can choose to have sex, she can also live up to the consequences of unwanted pregnancies, especially when these come about from promiscuity.  

what about rape? Although, i basically disagree with abortion..

[ilovemusic]

Typical american arguments I read here !.

Abortion: It may, for example, very well be that a child
will not have a good future and will pay dearly if born
in a certain situation (say, a condom brakes resulting in a very young motherhood). I suppose abortion is pretty traumatic anyway there is no need to rub it into the face of victims.

Death penalty: The law-system is not air-tight. Too much
innocent people get into death row. Besides, who gives who the right to kill anybody. People who kill are sick and need help, not death.

Gay marriage: Marriage is not about reproduction at all ! Marriage is a symbol for  loving another person. Who cares if people are "sexual incompatible". Do you realize we live on a giant stone making circles around a great ball of fire in a big void ? Having this in mind, gay marriage is not an issue at all. Gay people want the same rights, and  I think they have the right to have the same rights.

Joost

[schnabels_grandson]

I think that rape may be grounds for an abortion, but it would be better to have the kid and give it up for adoption in my opinion.  Abortion is traumatic because it's not natural.

Gay marriage: Marriage is not about reproduction at all ! Marriage is a symbol for  loving another person. Who cares if people are "sexual incompatible". Do you realize we live on a giant stone making circles around a great ball of fire in a big void ? Having this in mind, gay marriage is not an issue at all. Gay people want the same rights, and  I think they have the right to have the same rights.

Then what is the point of marriage?  Once again if your organs don't fit with the person you "love", you've got a problem, it just isn't natural.  I really wish they'd put homosexuality back in the DSM

Death penalty: The law-system is not air-tight. Too much
innocent people get into death row. Besides, who gives who the right to kill anybody. People who kill are sick and need help, not death.

I agree that a few people do get executed injustly.  Nobody gives anyone the "right" to kill anyone, but when somebody kills someone unjustifiably, they forfit their own life.  That's just the way it is and rightly so.  What a wonderfully touchy-feely idea:  "Let's help those poor serial killers, we can cure their schizoprenia."  Yeah right, these people are like lame dogs - there's just no use for them.

[Hmoll]

Typical american arguments I read here !.

Anyone who makes a statement like that is a narrow minded idiot.  The US is too big and its people too diverse for there to be a "typical" American argument on any topic.


Abortion: A woman has a right to choose. That said, there are too many abortions performed. The solution to that, though, is education, not outlawing abortions.


Gay marriage: Gay couples should have the right to form legally recognised unions. Why should a child living in a gay parent household be deprived of healthcare and other benefits that may not be available to them because of outdated laws.

Death penalty: Should be set aside. Killing is unethical, whether by criminals or by the government. It is unfairly administered Also, the cost of litigating a capital punishment case through the appelate process costs millions more than the cost of imprisoning someone for life.


Are these the only left vs right issues you can think of?

How about gun control, environmental laws, welfare reform.....?

[eddie92099]

Abortion: While an organism relies solely upon another organism, the "feeder" organism has the right to terminate the life of the "receiver" organism for the feeder's own well-being.

Gay marriage: Marriage is a commitment of love for one another. There is no reason why this has to be between a man and a woman.

Death penalty: The most hypocritical law that exists. It is absolutely abhorrent that anyone would believe such a thing is morally acceptable.

Ed

[Noah]

I think that rape may be grounds for an abortion, but it would be better to have the kid and give it up for adoption in my opinion.

Aren't there enough kids living in poverty and misery waiting for adoption as it is ?

Nobody gives anyone the "right" to kill anyone, but when somebody kills someone unjustifiably, they forfit their own life.

Says who ? So governments kill murderers, and claim to be an example to follow... I'm amazed not everyone thinks it's complete nonsense.

[xenon]

From the gov's point of view:

Abortion:  Kill the children and save money from foster home payouts and whatnot.

Execution: Kill the prisoners and save money from jail costs and whatnot.

Gay marriage: Define them as not a legal union, restrict them from benefits, and save money.

It all boils down to the money, which is truly corrupt.  Everyone is free to do what they want, so long as it doesn't hurt other people, within reasonable grounds.

[allchopin]

the cost of litigating a capital punishment case through the appelate process costs millions more than the cost of imprisoning someone for life.

This is true, as I have heard anyway.  However, putting someone in jail, psychologically disturbed or not, is just tergiversating Darwinism.

Unless there are hidden loopholes to gay marriage taxes, I don't see the problem.  Then again, I don't quite understand the point of the laws of marriage in general- marriage is simply something that humans made up.  It is not a black and white issue like most others are.

Abortion must be used judiciously- if the child is likely to grow up in a neglecting household or that which we would deem inhumane then abortion should be exercised.   It is not only up to the mother, but up to the father as well.

A newly arising issue in the world is that of environmental welfare vs. economic growth in developing coutries.  I im equally biased toward the environment as I am to economic welfare, but it really depends on the long-term benefits of the country.

[ilovemusic]

Anyone who makes a statement like that is a narrow minded idiot.  The US is too big and its people too diverse for there to be a "typical" American argument on any topic.

I suppose I am just very left, and think america in general is too right. I hope I do not have to make myself clear on this. I would call people who stand for this policy typical american. I can do this, america is democratic, right ?

Of course there are people in america who think otherwise, but they are a minority (otherwise the policy would be different, it is a democratic country, right ?). These people are not typical. Having this in mind the word typical is not so wrongly used after all.


Guns should not be legal either. I know: constitution blablabla, protection. Guns are constructed to kill other people, there is no point of having such a device.

[Hmoll]

I suppose I am just very left, and think america in general is too right. I hope I do not have to make myself clear on this. I would call people who stand for this policy typical american. I can do this, america is democratic, right ?

Of course there are people in america who think otherwise, but they are a minority (otherwise the policy would be different, it is a democratic country, right ?). These people are not typical. Having this in mind the word typical is not so wrongly used after all.


Guns should not be legal either. I know: constitution blablabla, protection. Guns are constructed to kill other people, there is no point of having such a device.

As far as the "policy" goes: abortion is legal across the board in the US - which is the more liberal policy.  Gay marriage becoming legal is more a matter of taking old archaic but existing laws off the books, which is happening in several states. The same is happening slowly in supposedly more liberal countries.

Conservatism in the US is not necessarily the majority. Bush lost the popular election here.

Yes, the US has a democratic form of government which allows freedom of speech, for example someone like you to say with very little knowledge on the subject that something is "typically American." It also allows me to say that that assertion is narrow minded and stupid.

I don't know where you get your information about the US, but the population here is very diverse and impossible to stereotype.

[ilovemusic]

Conservatism in the US is not necessarily the majority. Bush lost the popular election here.

I did not know that. Anyway, elections in the US are a joke.

Yes, the US has a democratic form of government which allows freedom of speech, for example someone like you to say with very little knowledge on the subject that something is "typically American." It also allows me to say that that assertion is narrow minded and stupid.

Then you just need to fill me in.

I don't know where you get your information about the US, but the population here is very diverse and impossible to stereotype.

I draw conclusion from all things I see from the US, by asking questions to people who have been in the US, and by observing and talking with people from the US.

It is possible to stereotype (that's what I just did), and stereotyping is a very common and normal thing to do. Not neccesarily a good thing, but hey, we can accuse EVERYBODY of these things.  ("Let's hunt them out of there caves !" har har har).

( Having a beard almost makes you a terrorist these days !  If you go to the states you need to fill in a question list with the question: "Are you a terrorist ?" wahahaha !)

[Hmoll]

I draw conclusion from all things I see from the US, by asking questions to people who have been in the US, and by observing and talking with people from the US.

It is possible to stereotype (that's what I just did), and stereotyping is a very common and normal thing to do. Not neccesarily a good thing, but hey, we can accuse EVERYBODY of these things.  ("Let's hunt them out of there caves !" har har har).

( Having a beard almost makes you a terrorist these days !  If you go to the states you need to fill in a question list with the question: "Are you a terrorist ?" wahahaha !)

Stereotyping,  is inaccurate  misleading,  and make the people doing the stereotyping look like bigots, and - as I said before - narrow minded idiots. So, I'll grant you it is possible to stereotype, but it is impossible to say what is or is not a "typical American." As someone who has lived here all my life, Americans are too diverse a population to generalize.

That is why I don't do it. I keep an open mind.

Believe me, I've heard all kinds of things called "typically American," and it never fails to make me laugh. Usually the source of those comments is people who have had little meaningful contact with the US and its people, and who have little capacity for critical thinking.

[allchopin]

I believe it was Freud who believed all good psychologists stereotyped.

[chopiabin]

I think that Gen 6 is a HORRIBLE PERSON!!!!
I can't believe you claim to be a Christian!

Death Penalty - Yor own religion says turn the other cheek.

Abortion - I think a mass of cells stuck in someone's body has fewer right than the "feeder" as ed puts it.

Gay marriage - I have gay friends who are some of the nicest, least perverted people I know. I feel that everyone should be given equal rights - how can you justify depriving a minority of certain rights (MLK day is coming up)?

The justification for most opposers of gay marriage is that the bible says it is wrong. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. Allowing gay marriage does not force churches to perform them, only civil marriages by the justice of the peace.

[schnabels_grandson]

Posted by: Chopiabin Posted on: Today at 8:42pm
I think that Gen 6 is a HORRIBLE PERSON!!!!
I can't believe you claim to be a Christian!

Death Penalty - Yor own religion says turn the other cheek.

Abortion - I think a mass of cells stuck in someone's body has fewer right than the "feeder" as ed puts it.

Gay marriage - I have gay friends who are some of the nicest, least perverted people I know. I feel that everyone should be given equal rights - how can you justify depriving a minority of certain rights (MLK day is coming up)?

The justification for most opposers of gay marriage is that the bible says it is wrong. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. Allowing gay marriage does not force churches to perform them, only civil marriages by the justice of the peace.  

LOL.  
Don't be an idiot.  "Turn the other cheek" only goes so far.  Are you suggesting that christians should tolerate murderers?  The bible also says "An eye for an eye".  Get it?

Let me clarify something:  The idea of seperation of church and state is not found any constitutional document.  Jefferson used that phrase in a letter to a minister in the newly founded United States.  What he was saying was that there would be no state-endorsed religion, and all people would be free to practice the religion of their choice without interference from the government.  Get a clue.

I don't get why people keep allowing themselves to believe that something so unnatural as homosexuality is ok.  Where did the morals go?  What is happening to society as a whole?  Think about it.  It's no longer politically correct to challenge the homosexual/promiscuous lifestyle, everybody is supposed to see it as being right and acceptable.  Well I don't accept it and I never will.  The bible does say that homosexulity is wrong.  I really don't care if people want to practice sodomy and what not, but as far as my opinions go: I REFUSE TO BE CENSORED.

[ilovemusic]

I don't get why people keep allowing themselves to believe that something so unnatural as homosexuality is ok.  Where did the morals go?  What is happening to society as a whole?  Think about it.  It's no longer politically correct to challenge the homosexual/promiscuous lifestyle, everybody is supposed to see it as being right and acceptable.  Well I don't accept it and I never will.  The bible does say that homosexulity is wrong.  I really don't care if people want to practice sodomy and what not, but as far as my opinions go: I REFUSE TO BE CENSORED.

I think people can be treated against homophobia....

[nad]

I think people can be treated against homophobia....

I agree,
nad

[ilovemusic]

And should be. What's normal anyway ?

[eddie92099]

I don't get why people keep allowing themselves to believe that something so unnatural as homosexuality is ok.  Where did the morals go?  What is happening to society as a whole?  Think about it.  It's no longer politically correct to challenge the homosexual/promiscuous lifestyle, everybody is supposed to see it as being right and acceptable.  Well I don't accept it and I never will.  The bible does say that homosexulity is wrong.  I really don't care if people want to practice sodomy and what not, but as far as my opinions go: I REFUSE TO BE CENSORED.

Chopiabin is right, you really are a horrible person,
Ed

[nad]

Chopiabin is right, you really are a horrible person,
Ed

I agree on that too,
nad

[ilovemusic]

I concur

[Plaz]

Let me clarify something:  The idea of seperation of church and state is not found any constitutional document.  

Well, the first amendment of the US Constitution says that the congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, so there's at least the notion that there shall not be a state-endorsed religion in a constitutional document.  Why didn't you note that the Bible, Christianity, and the prohibition of gay marriage are not mentioned in any constitutional document.

I don't get why people keep allowing themselves to believe that something so unnatural as homosexuality is ok.

Because it is.  Just because you find it unnatural does not make it so.  I find it unnatural that you can be so ignorant, but I will defend your right to be so.

Where did the morals go?

Mine are right here with me, thanks.

The bible does say that homosexulity is wrong.

Your bible says that it is wrong.  Mine says no such thing.  Luckily I am free to practice my own form of religion just as you are.  And since I'm sure you're wondering, no, I am not gay.

as far as my opinions go: I REFUSE TO BE CENSORED.

Nobody wants to censor you.  However, nobody seems to want to listen to you either.  Feel free to rant all you want.  The first amendment gives you the right to say what you want, but does not promise that you'll be heard or taken seriously.

[chopiabin]

Gen 6, you really disprove your own point. You say the government will not support state endorsed religion, yet yet you feel that homosexuals should not be alloed to marry because of your religious beliefs.

What is immoral abut homosexuality? It is not a moral issue. If a homosexual couple gets married how will it affect you? It's really none of your business how two consenting adults live. I want you to try to justify what you are saying. If you believe that certain minorities should be deprived of rights by the government according to YOUR (not everyone else's or state-endorsed) religious beliefs, then no one will take you seriously except for the ignorant people you probably suuround yourself with.


Death Penalty - I never said we should tolerate murderers, they are put in jail. The old testament - Hammurabi's Code -  says "eye for an eye", it also says that slavery is legal and many othger things that you certainly do not follow. However, Hammurabi is not Jesus, your "personal savior" in whom you say you trust. Jesus said "turn the other cheek"


It really is sad, but ignorant people are what cause the hate in the world. If you could try to embrace everyone, then maybe this country would be a less vioulent place. I am not even a Christian, and I believe that one should not hate or persecute people for who they are. HOW IRONIC!

Chop

[schnabels_grandson]

I think people can be treated against homophobia....

Exactly.  Nowadays if anyone dares to speak out against homosexuality, they are labeled as homophobes.  This is a result of decades of moral desensitizing by way of the "gay rights movement".  

Posted by: Plaz  
Because it is.  Just because you find it unnatural does not make it so.  I find it unnatural that you can be so ignorant, but I will defend your right to be so.

I could say the same to you and I have.  Just because you think that it's no big deal doesn't mean it is.  Who really is ignorant?  Me, the person who still has some idea of values and of right and wrong?  Or is it you, who let yourselves be pushed around by popular opinion?

Nobody wants to censor you.  However, nobody seems to want to listen to you either.  Feel free to rant all you want.  The first amendment gives you the right to say what you want, but does not promise that you'll be heard or taken seriously.

I admit that I put that in there mostly for shock effect, and it apears to have worked.

Posted by: Chopiabin Posted on: Today at 12:04pm
Gen 6, you really disprove your own point. You say the government will not support state endorsed religion, yet yet you feel that homosexuals should not be alloed to marry because of your religious beliefs.

What is immoral abut homosexuality? It is not a moral issue. If a homosexual couple gets married how will it affect you? It's really none of your business how two consenting adults live. I want you to try to justify what you are saying. If you believe that certain minorities should be deprived of rights by the government according to YOUR (not everyone else's or state-endorsed) religious beliefs, then no one will take you seriously except for the ignorant people you probably suuround yourself with.


Death Penalty - I never said we should tolerate murderers, they are put in jail. The old testament - Hammurabi's Code -  says "eye for an eye", it also says that slavery is legal and many othger things that you certainly do not follow. However, Hammurabi is not Jesus, your "personal savior" in whom you say you trust. Jesus said "turn the other cheek"


It really is sad, but ignorant people are what cause the hate in the world. If you could try to embrace everyone, then maybe this country would be a less vioulent place. I am not even a Christian, and I believe that one should not hate or persecute people for who they are. HOW IRONIC!

I never suggested that the government not allow homosexual marriage because of what the bible says.  

Really, I don't care if homosexuals are out there and do their thing.  My argument is that homosexuality is wrong in the first place.  You are right, it is none of my business how "two consenting adults live".  It would be fine if homosexuals would all stay in the closet (I can see the repercussions coming- Boos from all around).  As it is, every day I'm bombarded by a hail of media concerning homosexuals.  This makes it my business whether I like it or not.  

My real point is this: Homosexuality is a large contributor to the breakdown of society.  This is achieved by desensitizing the masses.  You may not realize it, but this has been going on for decades.  How?  By slowly brainwashing the people into thinking that things previously thought as taboo are now ok.  Now this effects "strait people".  How?  The increased tolerance of unacceptable behavior gives people the license to commit adultery.  Adultery results is breakup of marriages, breakup of marriages results in broken families, broken families result in children with serious  mental disorders.  New generations with mental disorders perpetuate crime and immorality.
Can you see the patern?
Also from an evolutionist standpoint:  People procreate for the survival of their race, correct?  Therefore Homosexuals are abnormal, because they do not procreate.  

I think it's twice as sad that people who have the balls to challenge something that is a social cancer often get the title of "Ignorant".  

[nad]

EXCUSE ME??  

I think it's twice as sad that people who have the balls to challenge something that is a social cancer often get the title of "Ignorant".

OMFG balls to challenge something? Based on what?! Based on your homophobic thoughts? Social cancer?? what?! So you are telling me, if you were to die and the only one who could save you was a doctor who is gay, then you would say: oh, leave me to die here, you cancer causing homosexual! That's what you should say anyway, based on your thoughts.. But this is a little to black and white for you i guess? Btw, you also carry these strange feelings for other minority groups?

You also requested for a scientific research on this matter, to prove your right? And the result was: homosexuals are a cancer to society.. yeah, right...
Oh no, of course, science is bullsh*t right, don't rely on that, take the vague edition of your bible instead..

People who think the way you do are a social cancer! I suppose you're dissapointed Germany didn't won the war back then... Because you're not that far away with your quotes!

Nad

[schnabels_grandson]

OMFG balls to challenge something? Based on what?! Based on your homophobic thoughts? Social cancer?? what?! So you are telling me, if you were to die and the only one who could save you was a doctor who is gay, then you would say: oh, leave me to die here, you cancer causing homosexual! That's what you should say anyway, based on your thoughts.. But this is a little to black and white for you i guess? Btw, you also carry these strange feelings for other minority groups?

You also requested for a scientific research on this matter, to prove your right? And the result was: homosexuals are a cancer to society.. yeah, right...
Oh no, of course, science is bullsh*t right, don't rely on that, take the vague edition of your bible instead..

People who think the way you do are a social cancer! I suppose you're dissapointed Germany didn't won the war back then... Because you're not that far away with your quotes!  

Nad

Like I said, balls to challenge popular opinion.  Based on my understanding of nature.  Way to take my words out of context dumbass.   If I were to die, it would be too late for a homosexual doctor to save me anyway.  If I were dying and the doctor who was saving me was a homosexual, of course I would accept his aid.  Like I said, I DON'T CARE IF HOMOSEXUALS PRACTICE THEIR LIFESTYLE IN PRIVATE.  When they throw it in my face on tv with shows such as "Will and Grace" and in public with their "gay parades", it bothers me.  It is very pretentious of you to assume that your views are more valid than mine, or that my views make me less of a human than you.

I don't know where or how science has proved homosexuality to be natural.  Can you direct me to this new information?  Has anybody published anything that explains how homosexuality is natural?   Please tell me.
I didn't want to get this graphic, but apparently some of you lack the intellegence to understand without this explanation.  Men have Penises.  Women have Vaginas.  A penis fits inside the vagina.  A penis does not fit with another penis.  A vagina does not fit into another vagina.  Sex is natures way of procreation.  Sex with the same gender cannot result in procreation.  If you have to use a non-sexual organ to acheive sexual gratification, it's not natural.  This raises the question: Are mouths and anuses sexual organs?  No.  The mouth takes in food and drink to nurture the body and is used to speak.  The anus expels waste material.  These are the only natural purposes for these organs.  I by no means use the bible as my primary reason for being repulsed by homosexuality.  

Way to go, you unoriginal bastard, turning my statement back on to me.  I didn't see that one coming.  It takes a truly intellegent person to draw a parallel between Hitler and someone with values.  Sarcasm aside, I think you should learn English a little better before you try to force your diluted views of right and wrong down my throat.  

Wait... I forsee that someone is going to say, "you're the one with diluted views!"  Great.  Now that I said that, someone is going to say, "you really do have diluted views!"  I know how your minds work, and how they don't.  
 
   

[chopiabin]

! If values never changed, then we would still have slavery, and blacks would have no political rights!

2 Do you honestly think that someone would choose to be gay?! Who would choose a life full of persecution by homophobes like you? Who would choose to be treated like a second class individual? Regardless of whether or not homosexuality is genetic or based on the environment, no one can choose to whom they are attracted, any more than you can choose to be attracted to people of the same sex.

3 You seem to be saying that it's ok for people to be gay as long as they pretend to be straight. You say you will not be censored yet this is what you would have gay people do. There are a billion movies and tv shows that depict straight peole and stereotype gays. Why is it wrong to have a few gay shows that have nothing to do with sex?

4 I think that homosexuality is evolution's way of preventing overpopulation.

5 You seem to think that you are the arbiter of all morals. Do you actually think that you have the final say in what is right and wrong? If you do not believe that the bible is the reason for homosexuality's immorality, then you obviously believe that you are the one who decides what is right and wrong for everyone else to do. Well, I have decided that I am the ultimate say in morality (I am just as qualified as you), and I think that you, your ignorance, and your religion are immoral and should be destroyed.

[schnabels_grandson]

! If values never changed, then we would still have slavery, and blacks would have no political rights!

2 Do you honestly think that someone would choose to be gay?! Who would choose a life full of persecution by homophobes like you? Who would choose to be treated like a second class individual? Regardless of whether or not homosexuality is genetic or based on the environment, no one can choose to whom they are attracted, any more than you can choose to be attracted to people of the same sex.

3 You seem to be saying that it's ok for people to be gay as long as they pretend to be straight. You say you will not be censored yet this is what you would have gay people do. There are a billion movies and tv shows that depict straight peole and stereotype gays. Why is it wrong to have a few gay shows that have nothing to do with sex?

4 I think that homosexuality is evolution's way of preventing overpopulation.

5 You seem to think that you are the arbiter of all morals. Do you actually think that you have the final say in what is right and wrong? If you do not believe that the bible is the reason for homosexuality's immorality, then you obviously believe that you are the one who decides what is right and wrong for everyone else to do. Well, I have decided that I am the ultimate say in morality (I am just as qualified as you), and I think that you, your ignorance, and your religion are immoral and should be destroyed.

I can't see the relevance of slavery to family values.  

I don't think that homosexuality is incurable.  It used to be treated as a mental disorder until the early 70's.  Here is an interesting link if you are interested in finding out about the nature of homosexuality as understood by leading psychiatrists:
https://www.tsroadmap.com/info/gender-identity-disorder.html

You won't like this one.https://www.amazinginfoonhomosexuals.com/homophobia.htm
                 Note:  These sites have a lot of big words - intellegence impaired beware!

These sites have noted sources for their material and a wealth of information.  I know you probably wont read them, but I'm posting them anyway.  Don't be a victim of ignorance.

I feel that  homosexuality should be treated as a disorder instead of allowed to be viewed as normal.  I don't think it can be chosen but it can be corrected.  

I would never presume to inflict my views as the supreme law.  You are the one who asked how others felt about these issues.  You asked us to at least try and explain.  I have done this only to receive a lot of guff from people who think that they have something over me.  I will say one last time, being opposed to homosexuality does not make one homophobic.  

[nad]

First of all, you're the one with dumbass quotes like homosexuality is social cancer! And also you're understanding of nature appears to be so minimal that there's no use talking about it with you. Btw i studied also biology, human physiology, psychology and other biology and medical courses. About my english; it may not be perfect but well, you live in the USA right? It's pretty sad and easy to try make fun of my english, you understand what i've written right? And why don't you try to rewrite all your posts in french or dutch? And also, you're the diluted heroic moron that's trying to force your diluted views down our throats! (You saw this one coming, i know). In fact, you want to force your views down the throat of this "cancer-suffering" society. Oh no, sorry, i mean you're challenging this sick society!

And for your bible, you did say that the bible said it's wrong.
Posted by: 6th_Gen_Beethoven Posted on: Jan 16th, 2004, 6:46am

The bible does say that homosexulity is wrong.

And now your opinion is based on your understanding of nature.. Where's your understanding based on then? Knowledge you gained on elementaryschool?
You say you're bothered by homosexuality on TV, even though the show has nothing to do with sex between two men. And then you say they are a social cancer (which is a pretty big word), but if you don't 'see' it it's ok.

And about your understanding of nature, then i bet you never ever get a bl*wjob right? That's not natural, since the mouth is for feeding. I bet you would find it a horrible idea, if a girl would do that to you. It must be horrific. And since you are bringing all these functions of organs and bodyparts down to primal functions, then it isn't really natural to play the piano, since fingers are designed to grab things in order for moving things, like bringing food into the mouth. You also don't smoke then, cause the lung(s) is designed for breathing. You wouldn't jerk off, cause then you're not busy with procreation but with fulfilling your human needs (remember the triangle of Maslow?). That's not why you've got a penis, right? Of course i do not base this on my knowledge of nature, but on your understanding of nature. And if you don't agree with that, you're obviously a very pretentious and shallow person.

And another thing, even though i have scientific proof that homosexuality is a natural thing, it's still useless for you, since you're so d*mn narrow minded.
Since there's is no use discussing with stubborn narrow minded people like you, i'm not going to waste anymore of my time on trying to broaden your visions. Eventhough my knowledge is based on academic research and books and your knowledge is based on your opinions (btw, what value can be found in mere opinions? In terms of science; there is no value in mere opinions). It doesn't matter which way people communicate with you, you wouldn't even learn it the hard way.
You're simply refusing to evolve your brain  . Well, that's your choice. Be happy with it.

Nad

[eddie92099]

6th_Gen_Beethoven, I ask, if you were gay, what would you do? Would you supress your feelings just to fit into what you view as society's "norm"? Or what if your son or daughter were to be gay? You would probably disown them...
Ed

[chopiabin]

Or get them treated. I have gay friends that have been dating for years, love each other more than any straight couple I know, and would get married right now if they had the chance.

[chopiabin]

Of course I looked at those sites, I am not closed minded. The firste site about gender identity has nothing to do with homosexuality.

The second one is a biased Christian fundamenalist site. From now on I will call a homohater, even though you knew what everyone on this site was talking about when they said homophobe.

When you say you are the only one left with values, then you aare saying that you are the ultimate determiner of values.

Explain how homosexuals destroy family values.

Morality changes. In the 50's, "black music" was considered a destroyer of morals. Blacks were considered less than human beings. Once upon a time so were Jews.

Regardless of whether you like it or not, gays will eventually get the right to marry. Morality constantly changes, and you are clinging to an old and useless morality. You are probably the oldest person participating in this discussion, and if you will notice, our younger generation agrees on the rights of homosexuals. We will be creating the laws and the future, and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

[chopiabin]

I just read some more from your little biased website, and it's simply ridiculous! I know plenty of straight guys who have done "gay things" who are perfectly straight, yet this website includes them in its study of how long gay people stay gay!
I didn't want to do this, but you have offended me so deeply that I had to. I am gay. I never msaturbated with other boys when I was younger, I never liked to draw pictures of princesses, and I am completely and totally not neurotic! I don't have a lisp, I am right handed, I am not schizophrenic - I am simply not attracted to women. I am in the top five people in my class, and I go to a school that is rated in the top 30 in this country. I have no mental health problems, would never dream of committing suicide or anything like that. I have been dating my boyfriend for a year and 5 months, and we love each other very much. People like you should not be allowed to have children.

[schnabels_grandson]

And another thing, even though i have scientific proof that homosexuality is a natural thing, it's still useless for you, since you're so d*mn narrow minded.  
Since there's is no use discussing with stubborn narrow minded people like you, i'm not going to waste anymore of my time on trying to broaden your visions. Eventhough my knowledge is based on academic research and books and your knowledge is based on your opinions (btw, what value can be found in mere opinions? In terms of science; there is no value in mere opinions). It doesn't matter which way people communicate with you, you wouldn't even learn it the hard way.  
You're simply refusing to evolve your brain  . Well, that's your choice. Be happy with it.  

Nad

Again, you claim to have proof but you refuse to supply it becuase I'm too "narrow minded".  On the flip side I can also say that you are narrow minded.  Don't ever tell me I'm narrow minded if you yourself refuse to see things my way.  You are giving up hope of subverting me then?  Good, it was a lost cause.

Posted by: eddie92099 Posted on: Today at 6:03am
6th_Gen_Beethoven, I ask, if you were gay, what would you do? Would you supress your feelings just to fit into what you view as society's "norm"? Or what if your son or daughter were to be gay? You would probably disown them...
Ed  

Good questions.  I think it would depend on the social climate.  If I was never aware of the psycological problems I was having, I'd probably be as whiney a Homosexual as any.  I think that homosexuality can be averted in youth, based on Freud's theory.  But, if one of my kids did turn out homosexual, I would at least try and get them to seek Psyhiatric attention.  How mean right?  Not "accepting my kids for who they are".  The scond site I posted has lots of information that leads to the conclusion that homosexuals suffer higher rates of personality disorders.  I would rather be forced to be strait than have disorders like Bipolar or borderline personality disorder.  

Posted by: Chopiabin Posted on: Today at 12:02pm
Or get them treated. I have gay friends that have been dating for years, love each other more than any straight couple I know, and would get married right now if they had the chance.

That's nice.  I would like to remind you that I never once said that homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry (see 1st. post).

Posted by: Chopiabin Posted on: Today at 12:17pm
Of course I looked at those sites, I am not closed minded. The firste site about gender identity has nothing to do with homosexuality.

The second one is a biased Christian fundamenalist site. From now on I will call a homohater, even though you knew what everyone on this site was talking about when they said homophobe.

When you say you are the only one left with values, then you aare saying that you are the ultimate determiner of values.

Explain how homosexuals destroy family values.  

Morality changes. In the 50's, "black music" was considered a destroyer of morals. Blacks were considered less than human beings. Once upon a time so were Jews.

Regardless of whether you like it or not, gays will eventually get the right to marry. Morality constantly changes, and you are clinging to an old and useless morality. You are probably the oldest person participating in this discussion, and if you will notice, our younger generation agrees on the rights of homosexuals. We will be creating the laws and the future, and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.  

The first site had to do with what was left in the DSM after they removed Homosexuality.  Now they don't even have Gender Indentity Disorder in there.

I assume you read that page and thought to yourself: 'this is christian fundamental, better leave'.  If you read on, there is lots of real information from real studies.  Still I do not hate homosexuals but I hate what they do and I don't think people should feel obligated to accept it.  You made a great point in your last post about homosexuals on t.v.  I never thought about all the "strait" shows, consider me to be corrected as far as that goes.

I don't think that was what I was trying to say.  I was saying that many people have no values at all.  Nothing matters to them, nothing is still sacred.  Therefore somone who still has his own convictions should not be looked down upon.

I already explained in part how homosexuals hurt values:      "My real point is this: Homosexuality is a large contributor to the breakdown of society.  This is achieved by desensitizing the masses.  You may not realize it, but this has been going on for decades.  How?  By slowly brainwashing the people into thinking that things previously thought as taboo are now ok.  Now this effects "strait people".  How?  The increased tolerance of unacceptable behavior gives people the license to commit adultery.  Adultery results is breakup of marriages, breakup of marriages results in broken families, broken families result in children with serious  mental disorders.  New generations with mental disorders perpetuate crime and immorality.
Can you see the patern?"
Now I won't blame this breakdown exclusively on homosexuals, but they do have a share in it.

I am 17 years old, one year younger than you according to your profile.  We shall see at a later time if my morality is useless.  In the future when everything is degraded worse than today, maybe you will regret being so cutting edge and "free minded".  I never implied that I wanted to do something about your precious laws.  

I want you to know that homosexuals in general don't bother me.  I would have never jumped into this if inflammatory statements weren't directed at me.  I think we will have to agree to disagree as to what morals are correct.    

[schnabels_grandson]

Posted by: Chopiabin Posted on: Today at 1:11pm
I just read some more from your little biased website, and it's simply ridiculous! I know plenty of straight guys who have done "gay things" who are perfectly straight, yet this website includes them in its study of how long gay people stay gay!
I didn't want to do this, but you have offended me so deeply that I had to. I am gay. I never msaturbated with other boys when I was younger, I never liked to draw pictures of princesses, and I am completely and totally not neurotic! I don't have a lisp, I am right handed, I am not schizophrenic - I am simply not attracted to women. I am in the top five people in my class, and I go to a school that is rated in the top 30 in this country. I have no mental health problems, would never dream of committing suicide or anything like that. I have been dating my boyfriend for a year and 5 months, and we love each other very much. People like you should not be allowed to have children.  

Wow!  What a shocker!  I can't tell if you are serious or not, so I'll assume you are.  Of course not all homosexuals will have mental disorders.  The site is just explaining that there is a better chance of homosexuals being effected by serious disorders than heterosexuals.  I'm truly sorry to have offended you.  I didn't mean for this to be personal.  I'm really sorry for this too:  Ironically, people like you never will have children!  

Man, I feel like such a jerk, really.  Please forgive me?

[nad]

About proof; i knew that that was the only thing you would react on. Let me tell you this; go study on a academic level, and start an education in which you'll study the courses like biology and human physiology and some pshychology. Evolve your brain. You would find out then that homosexuality is just a natural thing.  I already said that your understanding of nature is too minimal to use for whatever arguments you carry out (erm, you're still in highschool right? So what specific human biological knowledge do you have?). Go work on that first. How can one debate about something when one person debates on scientific facts and the other person debates on mere opinions. Told you that already. But hey, i didn't expect you to listen or understand that. You're just having your monologue or however the f*ck that's written.

At first i wrote if i would have proof, but then i changed in; i have proof. I know so because of all the knowledge i've gained and the social intelligence i (developed and) do have, and which you clearly don't have. Use the brain you got. It is not my responsibility to develop your brain.
As if you'd change your opinion when you saw a document with some proof in it. Spare me, that's crap and you know it. But hey, if you so desperately want to find out, come over here, go to my school and have a talk with some teachers there. Let's see what they've got to say about your idiosyncratic statements.

By the way, education here in Europe is somewhat better then at your place... I am currently doing a course called; cultural antropology. You should follow it here.

I am not narrow minded just because i see things a different way then you do. Only a narrow minded fool would say such a thing. I see where you're coming from, but that doesn't mean i have to agree with you and it certainly does not mean that i'm narrow minded. What an idiot you are to say that.

You don't have anything to say on the rest so that means you agree with all the other things i said. Actually, you simply cannot debate that.

There was a time there were more people like you (or should i say, the same way of reasoning and thinking), that's right. But hey, life evolves.. Brains evolve.. Knowledge evolves.. It's merely a matter of natural survival of the fittest.. Appearantly, you do not belong to that group.

Nad

Btw, i noticed the only arguments you can give me, is by turning the word around and use it against me. That's quite an immature and childish behaviour. It says more about you than it says about me.

[schnabels_grandson]

Re: Controversial issues - Left or Right?
« Reply #37 on: Today at 3:01pm » Quote » Modify  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About proof; i knew that that was the only thing you would react on. Let me tell you this; go study on a academic level, and start an education in which you'll study the courses like biology and human physiology and some pshychology. Evolve your brain. You would find out then that homosexuality is just a natural thing.  I already said that your understanding of nature is too minimal to use for whatever arguments you carry out (erm, you're still in highschool right? So what specific human biological knowledge do you have?). Go work on that first. How can one debate about something when one person debates on scientific facts and the other person debates on mere opinions. Told you that already. But hey, i didn't expect you to listen or understand that. You're just having your monologue or however the f*ck that's written.

At first i wrote if i would have proof, but then i changed in; i have proof. I know so because of all the knowledge i've gained and the social intelligence i (developed and) do have, and which you clearly don't have. Use the brain you got. It is not my responsibility to develop your brain.  
As if you'd change your opinion when you saw a document with some proof in it. Spare me, that's crap and you know it. But hey, if you so desperately want to find out, come over here, go to my school and have a talk with some teachers there. Let's see what they've got to say about your idiosyncratic statements.

By the way, education here in Europe is somewhat better then at your place... I am currently doing a course called; cultural antropology. You should follow it here.

I am not narrow minded just because i see things a different way then you do. Only a narrow minded fool would say such a thing. I see where you're coming from, but that doesn't mean i have to agree with you and it certainly does not mean that i'm narrow minded. What an idiot you are to say that.

You don't have anything to say on the rest so that means you agree with all the other things i said. Actually, you simply cannot debate that.  

There was a time there were more people like you (or should i say, the same way of reasoning and thinking), that's right. But hey, life evolves.. Brains evolve.. Knowledge evolves.. It's merely a matter of natural survival of the fittest.. Appearantly, you do not belong to that group.

Nad

Btw, i noticed the only arguments you can give me, is by turning the word around and use it against me. That's quite an immature and childish behaviour. It says more about you than it says about me.

All the courses you mentioned are based mostly on theories.  I probably have a deeper understanding of psychology than most people on this forum.  So your proof is based in knowledge you supposedly acquired at your school?  You lambaste me for having an opinion, while your "knowledge" is untangible.  I have listed the places where I have gained my conclusions from.  Again you have never cited any source for your "scientific facts".  Could it be that your teachers preach their own opinions?  

I find it hilarious that you put yourself on a pedestle because of the "social intellegence" you claim to have.  It certainly is my responsibility to "evolve my brain", but also to guard it from unwanted influences.  You seem to believe that you are enlightened.  Good for you, but this does not make me an idiot.  You choose to take what the so-called intellegentsia feeds you, I feel that they are as fallible as anyone.  I only make determinations based on logic.  What? My logic is poor?  I don't think you know enough to make that judgement.  Cultural Anthropology eh?  I'll try to look into it.  

Well, you seem to think that I am narrow minded because I do not allow my mind to be raped by anyone with a string of letters after their name.  I think it is very ridiculous of you to have said what you did.  So because I accuse you of being narrow minded on the grounds of you accusing me of being narrow minded, I'm narrow minded?  That doesn't make any sense.  Very hypocritical.

Actually, I could debate the rest of the crap that leaked out of your brain, but I don't because I find it fruitless because you have made it clear that other people govern your thoughts.  You are a tool.  You obviously take what your teachers tell you as the ultimate understanding.    

Well I hate to point it out, but you have also turned things against me in a more childish manner.  I was pointing out that if you want to call me narrow minded because I don't take your word for something, then I can do the same to you.  You are, in fact, one of the most absurd people I've ever debated with.  You up to this minute have not posted anything to validate your claims or to refute mine.  You speak a lot of mindless trash.
Remember this?

Posted by: nad on: Jan 16th, 2004, 2:09pm  People who think the way you do are a social cancer! I suppose you're dissapointed Germany didn't won the war back then... Because you're not that far away with your quotes!

 
That is one of the most immature comments I've heard on this thread so far.  "No, you're the social cancer".  And to compare me with Nazis?  Don't point fingers.

[eddie92099]

I'm truly sorry to have offended you

Why should it only be gay people that are offended by your comments?
Ed

[schnabels_grandson]

Posted by: eddie92099 Posted on: Today at 4:15pm
on Today at 1:48pm, 6th_Gen_Beethoven wrote:
I'm truly sorry to have offended you  



Why should it only be gay people that are offended by your comments?
Ed  

Did I say that?  Is that the general concensus - that only homosexuals should be offended?  I would think that by the title on this thread, people would forsee the possibility of reading things that might be offensive.  I should tell you all that I'm sorry if you are offended but remember, you chose to read and post to this thread.  
You can choose to be offended, or you can shake it off as another one of those things that don't really matter to anyone, which it is.  I know, I know,  apparently it matters to me, right?  Wrong.  I was about to stop frequenting this thread when I read the post that starts:  
I think that Gen 6 is a HORRIBLE PERSON!!!!
I can't believe you claim to be a Christian!  

This got me so riled up that I bit back with equal force.  How do my stands on certain issues determine what kind of person I am?  Am I evil because I would execute a murderer?  Think about it, what if you were victimized my a murderer?  What if someone you loved was visciously murdered?  Would you want the thug that did it to live in a comfortable prison for the rest of their life?  I know I wouldn't.  I believe that there is an inborn sense of justice in every person.  Perhaps the death penalty should be used in only severe cases but it should be used nonetheless.  

I have already adequately explained my stance on Homosexual marriage - I don't care.  

My explanation of my stance on abortion leaves something to be desired.  How I feel about it one last time:  Abortion because of carelessness should not be allowed.  Abortion in the case of rape should be allowed if the mother cannot bear the child and give it up for adoption.  Abortion in the case of the mothers life being endangered should be allowed.

To call me a horrible person is just not fair.  You can do it and for whatever reason but it doesn't mean it's a correct assesment.  

[allchopin]

This may end up degenerating into another version of the religious debate room

Bingo-- how prophetic.

[chopiabin]

Exactly.


Fine, you're younger, but your morality is that of an older generation that is fading fast.

I know the respectable thing for me to do is to say "yea, I forgive you," but I know you are not really sorry. You are simply embarrassed because you were caught by one of the "perverted" people that you think should pretend to be something they're not.


Your websites are biased and so is the information contained within them. There are many more molested children who grow up straight than gay. People say they find homosexual behavior disgusting and are not able to befriend a homosexual because they have been raised in a society that tells them that it is disgusting and wrong. How can love between two people be wrong?

If gay people have more mental problems than straight people (which I doubt), then it doubtlessly comes from the fact that society (Christian, Jewish, or Muslim) tells them from an earlier age that it is unnacceptable. Even in countries like Norway where it is much more acceptable, children still feel scared of rejection by their christian parents.

Chop

[schnabels_grandson]

Posted by: Chopiabin Posted on: Jan 17th, 2004, 10:33pm
Exactly.


Fine, you're younger, but your morality is that of an older generation that is fading fast.

I know the respectable thing for me to do is to say "yea, I forgive you," but I know you are not really sorry. You are simply embarrassed because you were caught by one of the "perverted" people that you think should pretend to be something they're not.


Your websites are biased and so is the information contained within them. There are many more molested children who grow up straight than gay. People say they find homosexual behavior disgusting and are not able to befriend a homosexual because they have been raised in a society that tells them that it is disgusting and wrong. How can love between two people be wrong?

If gay people have more mental problems than straight people (which I doubt), then it doubtlessly comes from the fact that society (Christian, Jewish, or Muslim) tells them from an earlier age that it is unnacceptable. Even in countries like Norway where it is much more acceptable, children still feel scared of rejection by their christian parents.

Chop  

I really am sorry that you are offended.  I don't say things that might embarass me later.  I'm prepared to eat my own words until I die, that is take responsibility for them.  I definitely don't want you to pretend to be something you are not, although you did so by pulling the "a friend of mine" trick.  I resent people twisting my words.  I know, I don't really want to know what you resent.  

To rephrase the statement "gay people have more mental problems than strait people" to be more correct:
More people with mental problems exhibit homosexual behaviors than people without mental problems.

Good news for all the people with Pedophilia, Exhibitionism, Fetishism, Frotterism, Sexual Masochism, Sexual Sadism, Transvestic Fetishism, Voyeurism, Telephone Scatalogia, Necrophilia, Partialism, Zoophilia, Coprophilia, Klismaphilia, Urophilia or another paraphilia:  You may not be mentally ill!!!
https://www.psychdirect.com/forensic/Criminology/cc-paraphilia.htm - This site explains these terms.

This site explains why you might not need to pay those expensive shrink bills anymore.    https://www.mhamic.org/newsapasymp.htm

How about sex with children?  Is that natural?  What if an adult loves a child and the child loves him back?  How about sex with animals (zoophilia)?  Nature's fun on the side?  Oooh, this one is perfect, sex with dead people (necrophilia):  They'll never say the sex was bad, right?  I can see the new television series: Live Eye For The Dead Guy, in which the live guy searches through the morgue to find the corpse of his choice.  He then chooses clothing and hair products that will make his dead friend extra attractive for their night of fun.
I know, I know, none of these things are socially acceptable or even legal, but 50 years ago neither was Sodomy.
This is where it's going friends.  If this is the morality of the "new generations", count me out.  

Note: While the APA claims that they currently have no plans to remove paraphilias, this doesn't mean it isn't going to happen.  There is obviously a movement to do so.      

[eddie92099]

Am I evil because I would execute a murderer?

Quite frankly, yes,
Ed

[nad]

About the war: take it anyway you like. The comparison is in the fact you consider homosexuality wrong anyhow, and if it was for you, you'd put them all in the closet so you don't have to be confrontated with them.

yeah 6th gen beethoven, of course what i learn at school is nothing but a bunch of crap, surely theories are not scientificly proven.... blablabl what a crap! At my place school is just for fun, you don't learn sh*t, they also say that it rains if god sneezes...
What the hell do you think anyway? And your logics? Please, give me a break...
You wanna know why i also used childish quotes? It seems the only way you understand..
I do not say that i am enlightened, but why on earth do you expect people to respect your diluted logics, and what the hell have you learnt about life so far, in the 17 years of your existence? Appearantly not that much since you try to protect your brain from 'wrong influences'. It only means that you're not capable to develop your brain, since you are incompetent making a difference between good and bad information.

Your so called psychological knowledge which you appearantly gained from a bunch of crappy sites, is also rather twisted. Comparing homosexuality with necrophilia.. And then claiming that those are more reliable sources then what i would get at school? Moron, this whole understanding of nature and psychology isn't based on reading a couple of books or websites.. Really funny you seem to think so. But well, can't blame you for being primitive..


Surely you find the rest of what i said crap, and that's why you didn't reply on that. THAT'S CRAP. You did bring functions of organs and bodyparts down to primal functions, you made it clear you see no need in fulfilling human needs. (spare me with your dr. phil psychology)
You find it unnatural because two people are supposed to be procreating. How primitive can one be....
So it's only logical to consider you as a caveman/Neanderthal.

And you do offend people who are not gay. Now you're sorry for Chop? Please... don't be that pretentious.

[schnabels_grandson]

Posted by: nad Posted on: Today at 4:31am
About the war: take it anyway you like. The comparison is in the fact you consider homosexuality wrong anyhow, and if it was for you, you'd put them all in the closet so you don't have to be confrontated with them.  

yeah 6th gen beethoven, of course what i learn at school is nothing but a bunch of crap, surely theories are not scientificly proven.... blablabl what a crap! At my place school is just for fun, you don't learn sh*t, they also say that it rains if god sneezes...  
What the hell do you think anyway? And your logics? Please, give me a break...  
You wanna know why i also used childish quotes? It seems the only way you understand..
I do not say that i am enlightened, but why on earth do you expect people to respect your diluted logics, and what the hell have you learnt about life so far, in the 17 years of your existence? Appearantly not that much since you try to protect your brain from 'wrong influences'. It only means that you're not capable to develop your brain, since you are incompetent making a difference between good and bad information.  

Your so called psychological knowledge which you appearantly gained from a bunch of crappy sites, is also rather twisted. Comparing homosexuality with necrophilia.. And then claiming that those are more reliable sources then what i would get at school? Moron, this whole understanding of nature and psychology isn't based on reading a couple of books or websites.. Really funny you seem to think so. But well, can't blame you for being primitive..


Surely you find the rest of what i said crap, and that's why you didn't reply on that. THAT'S CRAP. You did bring functions of organs and bodyparts down to primal functions, you made it clear you see no need in fulfilling human needs. (spare me with your dr. phil psychology)
You find it unnatural because two people are supposed to be procreating. How primitive can one be....
So it's only logical to consider you as a caveman/Neanderthal.  

And you do offend people who are not gay. Now you're sorry for Chop? Please... don't be that pretentious.  

Again, you fail to bring any references to the table.  Instead, you are sarcasticly haughty.  I already told you what I think, and I am giving you a break by bothering to respond to your nonsense.  Oh, so now you are being childish so that I can understand?  I think you are childish because that's the only way you can be.  So there is some universal limit on what a 17 year old can know?  I said unwanted influences.  I have the capacity to decide what I will and wont believe based on evidence.  Again, you don't know enough to judge me as incompetent in any respect.

Unlike you, I actually gained my knowledge from real, published books.  I used these sites to point you to information instead of typying it all up.  Comparing homosexuality with necrophilia?  You are god damn right.  I'm showing you where this society is going.  I never said or implied in any manner that these sites were better references than your school.  I did say that your teachers teach their philosophy and that is why you are unable to provide me with published sources.  On the same token, I can't blame you for being so weak-minded.  So this understanding comes from sitting around a classroom with teahers that smoke pot and have sex with 14 year olds?  You are dutch correct?  

I don't see the point in responding to your provocative statement.  I don't really think you had valid points that needed to be adressed.  How did I make it clear that I saw no need to fulfill human needs?  Did I ever say that?  I said that in a heterosexual arangement the mouth and anus are not needed to "fulfill needs".  It is by no means logical to conclude that I'm a caveman.  Again, you claim that failure to take your word for something makes me less evolved.  And again, you don't have the knowledge or even logic to back up that assesment.

I am sorry for "chop".  I am never pretentious.    

[chopiabin]

Are you sorry FOR me? Or for the fact that you are offensive? If you are sorry for me, then don't be I will never need your pity. Maybe Nad doesn't provide sources for what he is saying, but the sources that you provide are incredibly biased. They include people in their studies that should not be included. Comparing homosexuality with necrophilia or pedophilia is ridiculous. The reason why people view these as wrong is that there is no way for the victims to consent to their attacker's actions. A child may say yes, but a young child is not mature enough to make decisions about sex. They have no concept of the emotional damage that it may do to them.

This is why no one thinks it strange when a 16 or 17 yr. old dates a 19 or 20 yr. old. They are capable of making decisions about their sexuality.

[Noah]

So this understanding comes from sitting around a classroom with teahers that smoke pot and have sex with 14 year olds?  You are dutch correct?  

All this coming from someone who's overweight, watches more than 6 hours' tv a day, has coke for breakfast, never set foot in a museum, can't speak properly, has a gun under his pillow, can't spot Iraq on a map, and can't understand 99% of the jokes in Frasier ? You're American, right ?

[eddie92099]

Maybe Nad doesn't provide sources for what he is saying

She ,
Ed