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Topic: Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4, 8, added 11, 12, 13, 14 (Read 23879 times)

piano121

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Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4, 8, added 11, 12, 13, 14

on: October 12, 2006, 02:47:24 AM

Here are my interpetation on Bach´s 2 part inventions. Coments most welcome.

Bach_inv_n01.mp3 (603.98 kB - downloaded 1505 times.)

Bach_inv_n02.mp3 (1206.17 kB - downloaded 947 times.)

Bach_inv_n04.mp3 (385.62 kB - downloaded 1051 times.)

Bach_inv_n08.mp3 (676.98 kB - downloaded 1217 times.)

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steve jones

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Re: some more Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4 and 8

Reply #1 on: October 12, 2006, 03:23:10 AM

Hey, you know what, Iv been playing the keys for about 18 months now, and I find these pieces hard! To get them upto speed yet retain that even touch through out... its not easy by a long shot. Give me a Chopin Nocturne anyday... but these type of pieces take much longer to get down imo.

Now Im not sure how long you've been at it, but these sound good to me. You have them better than I do atleast. I always make mistakes in the B section of No 8.

So yeah, sounding good to me. If I were going to be critical I would say maybe work on the interp of each a little now. You have the notes down, try to inject a more music into you... errr, music!

Good stuff though. How long have you been playing? How long for each of these pieces?

SJ

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steve jones

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Re: some more Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4 and 8

Reply #2 on: October 12, 2006, 03:25:09 AM

Perhaps you could up the pace on No 1 a little?

I think this one sounds good around 100bpm.

SJ

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zheer

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Re: some more Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4 and 8

Reply #3 on: October 12, 2006, 12:04:08 PM

Bach to basic, very good piano playing, BTW do you play Invention 13 in A minor, it sounds a lot like a prelude.

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teresa_b

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Re: some more Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4 and 8

Reply #4 on: October 12, 2006, 12:40:47 PM

Hi piano,

I liked them very much!

You have a nice touch for Bach, and your piano complements it well. I would like to hear no 8 a little more "dancing" and a bit less serious. I play no 1 faster myself, but I like your interpretation!

Great work!
Teresa

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piano121

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Re: some more Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4 and 8

Reply #5 on: October 12, 2006, 04:57:13 PM

Quote from: steve jones on October 12, 2006, 03:23:10 AM

Good stuff though. How long have you been playing? How long for each of these pieces?

Hi SJ, thanks for your coments. It´s my main focus at this moment to work on clarity, and evenness, because I used to be a very uneven pianist in the past, and used to rush the tempo to much, with the notes all over the place. Now, I´m trying to be clear about my ideas, and comunicate the music better.

I have studied in the past, but quit, 10 years ago. At that time I got a lazy teacher, so I didn´t build any technique, and barely no repertoire, in 4 years. At that time I thought I was playing pretty well, but latter realised that I had no technique. Now, 10 years latter, a sort of restarted from scratch. I restarted 12 months ago, with an exelent teacher, and it has been fantastic to me. I am studing the hole set on inventions, as well as the 10 small etudes by Moszkowsky, as technique pieces along with other repertoire pieces. I started with the inventions 10 months ago, and hope to complete the inventions in about four months, totalizing sort of 14-15 months, a little more than a year. I am more than happy with this project, and I think my teacher does an excelent job.

Just for comparisson, in my first experience, I studied only 3 inventions, after 4 years. And wasn´t able to memorize it. When I got back to piano, I had to relearn thes 3 pieces, as new pieces, because I didn´t remember a single note.

At the begining I was taking more time to learn each one of them, not sure exactly, because I´ve been dealing with lots of material simutaneously, but probably, about a month for each one as an average learning time. that means in the beggining it could be about 2 months for each piece, but now, I am taking about half month. And I am studying more than one at the same time, usualy 2.

Quote from: teresa_b on October 12, 2006, 12:40:47 PM

Hi piano,

I liked them very much! You have a nice touch for Bach, and your piano complements it well. I would like to hear no 8 a little more "dancing" and a bit less serious. I play no 1 faster myself, but I like your interpretation!

Great work!
Teresa

Hi teresa, thanks!

I indeed have to work out lots of details on theses pieces, but as I said, I´m working on several pieces at teh same time. So, I hope a better interpretation will emerge eventualy, in all the pieces, as I digest and understand them in a larger level.

About the tempo, I used to play n1 much faster, but ended up with this tempo, wich I believe is my interpretation choise for now. n2 was very slow, I used to like it, influenced by gould maibe? then I sort of speeded it a little, and the result was very pleasing to me, that would be my choise now.I will post it in the future, when I record it.

Quote from: zheer on October 12, 2006, 12:04:08 PM

Bach to basic, very good piano playing, BTW do you play Invention 13 in A minor, it sounds a lot like a prelude.

Thanks zeer. Yes I play it. I have a recording of it, I´ll post it later. Thanks for your kind coment!

Piano121

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ganymed

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Re: some more Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4 and 8

Reply #6 on: October 12, 2006, 07:25:03 PM

very niceley played but a question that bothers me is the fact that you play the trill in the 2nd in at least in opinion to slow and then the trill in the 3d bar is played swiftly and accurately but oh well its your interpretation! ^^

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piano121

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Re: some more Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4 and 8

Reply #7 on: October 13, 2006, 02:03:56 PM

Quote from: ganymed on October 12, 2006, 07:25:03 PM

very niceley played but a question that bothers me is the fact that you play the trill in the 2nd in at least in opinion to slow and then the trill in the 3d bar is played swiftly and accurately but oh well its your interpretation! ^^

Hi ganymed. Thanks for your coment! About the ornaments, actualy, It´s suposed to be played like this

, acording to standard Bach ornamentation. in the 2nd bar it is a trill, and in the 3rd bar it´s a mordant. in the 2nd bar(trill), 2 notes for every 16th note, and in the 3rd bar(mordant), 4 notes for one 16th note. I agree it gets very slow, with the tempo I chose for this piece, but that´s how my teacher tought me to play it

. I recorded this 2 months ago, later on, I realise I wanted better a faster tempo, and I put a little more speed to it. I might record it some day.

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ganymed

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Re: some more Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4 and 8

Reply #8 on: October 13, 2006, 04:09:39 PM

but isnt a trill always supposed to be fast as possible and not calculated?

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piano121

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Re: some more Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4 and 8

Reply #9 on: October 13, 2006, 05:36:28 PM

Yes it is. Untill it isn´t

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piano121

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Re: some more Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4 and 8

Reply #10 on: October 13, 2006, 05:50:32 PM

haha.. just kiding...

What I mean is, My teacher said I should play that way at that moment. I´m not doing it as slow anymore. As I said I did speed the hole thing.

What realy hapens, is that in the sugested execution you find in some editions, they sugst you to play 2 notes for every 16 note. What obviously works fine in certain tempos. Of course in a slow tempo, it should be modified, as you noticed, to a faster trill. And you are right, playing a trill so slow is indeed anoying to me to! hahah I promise I will show you some day that I fixed it! Cheers, pal!

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piano121

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Re: some more Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4 and 8

Reply #11 on: October 13, 2006, 06:15:39 PM

Here are the inventions 11, 12, 13 and 14. I´m not completely happy with them, tehy are a work in progress to, specialy 12, which need to be speed up a little yet. Please ignore minor slips!

Bach_inv_n11.mp3 (636.98 kB - downloaded 383 times.)

Bach_inv_n12.mp3 (718.21 kB - downloaded 395 times.)

Bach_inv_n13.mp3 (461.13 kB - downloaded 629 times.)

Bach_inv_n14.mp3 (1033.31 kB - downloaded 451 times.)

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ganymed

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Re: some more Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4 and 8

Reply #12 on: October 13, 2006, 06:19:59 PM

hehe the 13th invention was a bit to fast for my taste

but all this aside nicely played ;d
you seem to be in a rush playing that invention

did you play the inventions on a digital piano or on a acoustic ? just curious

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piano121

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Re: Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4, 8, added 11, 12, 13, 14

Reply #13 on: October 13, 2006, 06:36:17 PM

Quote from: ganymed on October 13, 2006, 06:19:59 PM

hehe the 13th invention was a bit to fast for my taste but all this aside nicely played ;d
you seem to be in a rush playing that invention

did you play the inventions on a digital piano or on a acoustic ? just curious

Yes, I agree with that. I wanted that fast pacing on that, but I realise i din´t have the control I need over the piece. I hope to improve this shortly.

It´s an acoustic piano, an upright Schinder, sounds a little like a piano forte

Thanks four your coments!

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piano121

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Re: Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4, 8, added 11, 12, 13, 14

Reply #14 on: October 13, 2006, 06:37:32 PM

btw, I don´t know who post the invention scores, I guess it´s Nilsjohan, the moderator? Thanks for doing that!

Piano 121

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lostinidlewonder

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Re: Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4, 8, added 11, 12, 13, 14

Reply #15 on: October 14, 2006, 12:17:24 AM

Good work, you really have done well to learn this collection. You definately have all the notes easily controlled under your hand. Personally I like to play these Inventions and indeed teach it to be played with dynamics, since afterall we are playing on the modern piano not a harpichord or clavichord anymore.

I find on the piano we really can contrast legato, tenuto, accents, staccato, the four major touches Bach uses. The more we contrast these sounds in my opinion the better Bach sounds for the modern piano. If we have semi-quavers against quavers, like in the no 13, the quavers should take on a staccato qualitiy where the semi-quavers legato. This is a standard interpretation of Bach. Also understanding how we use climaxes in the pieces, and where to increase our volume to a max point when we reach these places are so important, when to over do it and when to be meek.

There is a split in the music world on how Bach should be played on the modern piano. There are those who like the piano to emulate the old keyboards and then there are those who want to hear Bach played with the capabilities of a modern piano. I strongly believe we should be able to play both ways, and I think it is far more challenging to play Bach pianistically rather than traditionally, a lot more applicable to our overall PIANO playing too.

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davidz

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Re: Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4, 8, added 11, 12, 13, 14

Reply #16 on: October 14, 2006, 01:02:14 AM

Very well done, piano121. It's hard to argue with any of this. I have yet to get the accuracy in Number 8 that you have achieved.

One question-- the interpretation of Number 1 seems stylistically different from the others, with considerably more rubato. Is there a reason for this? Just wondering.

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piano121

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Re: Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4, 8, added 11, 12, 13, 14

Reply #17 on: October 14, 2006, 12:17:53 PM

Quote from: lostinidlewonder on October 14, 2006, 12:17:24 AM

Good work, you really have done well to learn this collection. You definately have all the notes easily controlled under your hand. Personally I like to play these Inventions and indeed teach it to be played with dynamics, since afterall we are playing on the modern piano not a harpichord or clavichord anymore.

I find on the piano we really can contrast legato, tenuto, accents, staccato, the four major touches Bach uses. The more we contrast these sounds in my opinion the better Bach sounds for the modern piano. If we have semi-quavers against quavers, like in the no 13, the quavers should take on a staccato qualitiy where the semi-quavers legato. This is a standard interpretation of Bach. Also understanding how we use climaxes in the pieces, and where to increase our volume to a max point when we reach these places are so important, when to over do it and when to be meek.

There is a split in the music world on how Bach should be played on the modern piano. There are those who like the piano to emulate the old keyboards and then there are those who want to hear Bach played with the capabilities of a modern piano. I strongly believe we should be able to play both ways, and I think it is far more challenging to play Bach pianistically rather than traditionally, a lot more applicable to our overall PIANO playing too.

Thnaks a lot for your insights. I know a have yet much to improve interpretation wise on these pieces. I agree it´s more dificult to bring out good dinamincs and sound from this inventions, than it seems to be!

. If you have the time, I would be glad if you could poit out wich particular parts , or inventions would be improved some how.

Quote from: davidz on October 14, 2006, 01:02:14 AM

Very well done, piano121. It's hard to argue with any of this. I have yet to get the accuracy in Number 8 that you have achieved.

One question-- the interpretation of Number 1 seems stylistically different from the others, with considerably more rubato. Is there a reason for this? Just wondering.

Thanx again! Your inventions are very beautifull to. I specialy love n4.

About n1, you pointed out well. I think it indeed has some more freedow, and in my opinion, a beter sense of dinamics and a better interpretation overal. I´m shure that´s because I have studied deeply the compositional structure of this piece, and also is the first one I have studied, so I gave it much more time than some other that I´m playing, let´s say, for a couple of months. I hope to achieve the same with the others.

Thanks a lot for your coments, guys

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glk

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Re: Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4, 8, added 11, 12, 13, 14

Reply #18 on: October 24, 2006, 03:24:07 PM

Hi P121:

Excellent playing! For example, you handled the A minor (No. 13, which I tend to think is the most difficult, quite readily. (I worked on this one not too long ago, and it became my 6 year old son's favorite.)

Like some of the other comments, I too especially like No. 1, because of its somewhat greater freedom and expressiveness. I also agree lostin...'s suggestions related to interpretation of bach, such as greater contrasts between the hands and/or theme and counterline. (For example, my teacher encouraged me generally to play 16th note passages legato against more articulated/staccato eight note passages). In addition, as in his fugues, it is often helpful to begin by identifying the repetitions of the themes and decide, at the outset, how to articulate. I often try to imaging how the line would be sung to allow for direction/increasing tension, releases, and breaths.

Best,

Gary K.

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danc

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Re: Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4, 8, added 11, 12, 13, 14

Reply #19 on: February 25, 2010, 05:10:36 AM

I know this thread is years old, but I just wanted to say I really liked number 8. That's the one I'm working on right now, so it's very close to my heart

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Topic: Bach: 2 part Inventions 1, 2, 4, 8, added 11, 12, 13, 14 (Read 23879 times)

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