Pissed Off at Life

[klick]

Well lately I've been having a rough time at life. I usually end up at the piano when I become sad and depressed (too often lately),  just wondering if this works for anybody. It seems to just get me more pissed off and frustrated 

Klick

[prometheus]

If it is enduring you should go see a doctor. At least, that's the only think I can advise.

[donjuan]

I also turn to music to escape reality.  Sometimes I like to watch the Bohemian Rhapsody video and let the worries melt away

ahhhhh doesn't that feel better, knowing 'nothing really matters'?

if you think it might be clinical depression, do what prometheus said

[prometheus]

Yes, it can be an illness.

Otherwise, just enjoy it, really. This may sound strange but without having negative feelings you won't be able to be happy either. Last night I felt empty. Now I feel ok. Tomorrow I will feel great again.

Enjoy all the colours of all emotions.

[maul]

You need to quit whining and do something about it. Accomplish things. Make something of yourself. You most likely are having a hard time at life because you expect that you are going to have a hard time at life. You expect bad things to happen to you. Take each failure as a learning experience and use it to your benefit.

[prometheus]

I disagree with Maul. His comments assumes that Klick is doing something wrong and since he or she didn't say anything about his or her life this is impossible. So he assumes that because this person feels depressed something must be wrong. This is almost often not the case.

[debussy symbolism]

You need to quit whining and do something about it. Accomplish things. Make something of yourself. 

Greetings.

I hope you are able to see the irony in that.


On more serious terms, yes, it is okay to be depressed occasionally, especially should you be a teenager. However, should you be feeling depressed persistently, you should definately go see a doctor.

Best.

[maul]

A majority of people who are depressed are depressed because of the situation they have created for themselves... and a majority, instead of doing something about it, sit and loath in their own self pity for times to come expecting something to happen that will bring change. It's not what happens, it's what we DO about the things that happen.

[prometheus]

The cause for depression is not in someones life. It is in your brain. Either it is a mood or it is clinical. In the latter it is a chemical imbalance in the brain you can either choose to live with or try to correct using medicine.

[pies]

Experiment with some drugs. They might help.

[prometheus]

I hope that was a joke. Most drugs make your emotions either more intense or they will make you interpret your emotions in another way. If one is to experiment with drugs make sure you already feel well and have a friend that stays sober.

[lisztisforkids]

A majority of people who are depressed are depressed because of the situation they have created for themselves... and a majority, instead of doing something about it, sit and loath in their own self pity for times to come expecting something to happen that will bring change. It's not what happens, it's what we DO about the things that happen.

 Clearly, you are a very ignorant person that dosenot even know what it means to be in a depression. People get depressed for a lot of reasons-relationships, family ,lonliness. Going through a period of sadness is completely normal. Being depressed is the inability to get out of the cycle of negative feelings. When you are in a state of depression, you find it very hard to do anything-anything at all. Thats wht depression is. Its a rut in the road, and its hard to get out. Let me tell you from expeirence. Its very hard. It took me nearly a year and I am still not very stable. I dident get depressed 'from a situation I created', it kind of just happened from a lot of differnt reasons. And then I couldnet get out... And it gets worse and worse and worse... Until you get outside help, IE a therapist, maybe anti-depresants, I saw a Chinese alternate doctor, and that helped me pretty well. Some people are prone to depression easier than others... Like me, and maybe like Klick. And if you are one of those truly happy ignorant people, you are one of the lucky ones.

 Also, Depression is not just the feeling sad. I feel angry, restless, and oh so lonly. But everybody in general feels sadness, inability to function normally.

[pies]

I hope that was a joke. Most drugs make your emotions either more intense or they will make you interpret your emotions in another way. If one is to experiment with drugs make sure you already feel well and have a friend that stays sober.

We all know that when one smokes marijuana one achieves a wonderful state of bliss and euphoria.

[maul]

As I said, do something about it. Clearly you are one of those indecisive people who blames the government and other outside forces for the things that happen in their life, and don't try to fix the problem where it really lies. IN YOURSELF. Learn, make money, accomplish, love - these are the cures to depression. Not some witch doctor from Bolivia. If you aren't happy, then make yourself happy. Is it that simple? Yes. If it isn't that simple then you need to build up some confidence in yourself and quit thinking that it isn't that simple, because it is. How do I know? I was depressed for quite some time. Then I started making changes - changes to my philosophy, my life, my income. I haven't been in my depressed state for a long time. The problem is, you think depression is too hard to conquer and that you are prone to it. Well guess what... if you think that, then it WILL be too hard to conquer. If you think that you are going to continue to be depressed, then you will be. Change your philosophy. Change your mind.

[ahinton]

As I said, do something about it. Clearly you are one of those indecisive people who blames the government and other outside forces for the things that happen in their life, and don't try to fix the problem where it really lies. IN YOURSELF. Learn, make money, accomplish, love - these are the cures to depression. Not some witch doctor from Bolivia. If you aren't happy, then make yourself happy. Is it that simple? Yes. If it isn't that simple then you need to build up some confidence in yourself and quit thinking that it isn't that simple, because it is. How do I know? I was depressed for quite some time. Then I started making changes - changes to my philosophy, my life, my income. I haven't been in my depressed state for a long time. The problem is, you think depression is too hard to conquer and that you are prone to it. Well guess what... if you think that, then it WILL be too hard to conquer. If you think that you are going to continue to be depressed, then you will be. Change your philosophy. Change your mind.

In denial, are we? Your various posts here would appear to suggest so. The "snap out of it" routine can indeed be pressed into service and made to work successfully in certain cases, but not in the majority of them. The chemical imbalances in the brain which an earlier contributor correctly mentioned as part of the manifestation of clinical depression are not things that can simply be altered by efforts to "do something about it" in the ways that you suggest. Another factor which you also appear to ignore (a pity, since this is a forum dealing principally with musical matters) is that changes of emotional state are themselves chemical changes in the brain and one thing of which none of us composers (or anyone else, for that matter) has yet more than the most rudimentary understanding is how these work in practice - and, in the absence of such scientific knowledge, we simply continue to write work in a kind of disregarding vacuum where its possible effects on the brains of each invididual listener are concerned. Simply put, we just cannot predict in our work what effects any of it may have on the emotions of individual listeners

These are matters for the neuroscientific researchers, althought they are of interest to us all in the end. In the meantime, trying - as you appear largely to do - to deny all forms of depression as having any conceivable connection with cerebral chemical imbalances (howsoever caused) and everything instead to do with the will (or apparent lack of it) of the sufferer is like putting your head fimrly in the sand. That's up to you, of course, but I hope very much that you never fall victim to clinical depression yourself while you continue to harbour this inflexible and grossly unsympathetic attitude, for you will thereby make it impossible to find a cure your your own woes.

Have another think about this - and do read some bona fide scientific papers about it; when you have done that, you will hopefully conclude, at the very least, that this subject is a far more complex one than you appear at present to believe it to be and that much research is being and has still to be done.

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

sorry to hijack temporarily - but i think it is a combination of both ways of thinking.  as it was told to me - taking medication isn't bad.  especially if you find something that helps you function (work/school/friends) - but leaving everything to medication has it's drawbacks.  to begin to get back into life - and exercise (which promotes certain brain hormones at least - as told to me 45 minutes 3x week) - to watch your diet (not too much sugar and things which counter your bodies production of things it needs to function) - and to have a positive outlook or train your mind to think positively instead of negatively.

i think parents have a huge role to play in positive reinforcement, example of exercise and discipline, and of allowing themselves and their children to express times of sadness, tiredness, frustration - without a lot of over judging.  to just 'let be.'  to commiserate - and not always say 'you're being childish.'  sometimes depression can work on much older people - so it's obviously not childishness. 

to me, a large part of thinking positive - is to turn outwards instead of inwards.  it is very difficult to do this when depressed - but if we even attempt small gestures...it is a step forward.  also, looking for joy in things.  it's easy to feel negative and bad - but sometimes harder to feel joyful when we don't really feel it.  to me, this is where God comes in.  we can pray for joy.  basically, I see God as a parent.  He can hear our hurts and pains - and physcially help us cope as well as spiritually.  letting go of past hurts instead of mulling over them (over and over as with a train track) is a more viable cure, imo, than going into detail to 'solve' a problem.  some relationships will always be a problem.  perhaps it is time to shorten some relationships and elongate others?  to think about what makes YOU feel right and happy and balanced.  some people put us off balance by being negative themselves.  limit time with them.

[ahinton]

sorry to hijack temporarily - but i think it is a combination of both ways of thinking.  as it was told to me - taking medication isn't bad.  especially if you find something that helps you function (work/school/friends) - but leaving everything to medication has it's drawbacks.  to begin to get back into life - and exercise (which promotes certain brain hormones at least - as told to me 45 minutes 3x week) - to watch your diet (not too much sugar and things which counter your bodies production of things it needs to function) - and to have a positive outlook or train your mind to think positively instead of negatively.

Wise words, these. It is indeed an abnegation - and a potentially useless one - just to leave it all to the medics, but in order for anything to work there has to be as much proper understanding of the individual situation as possible. Certain physical exercise can often be beneficial, but, again, this needs to be undertaken by sufferers of clinical depression only under specific prescriptive medical advice and supervision, otherwise there might even be a risk of its having a negative effect on some patients. Diet is indeed an important factor, as is the timing of meals and medication. In the end, however, it has to be accepted in all cases that any clinically depressed patient has to be able to muster sufficient positive attitude actually to go and seek medical advice in the first place and then to follow it with a view to achieving an improvement in the condition.

i think parents have a huge role to play in positive reinforcement, example of exercise and discipline, and of allowing themselves and their children to express times of sadness, tiredness, frustration - without a lot of over judging.  to just 'let be.'  to commiserate - and not always say 'you're being childish.'  sometimes depression can work on much older people - so it's obviously not childishness.

This may be the case, but you are writing here only about depression in children, whereas it occupies a far wider territory than just up to mid-'teens.

to me, this is where God comes in.  we can pray for joy.

Here you go again! "For you", yes - and that's absolutely fine - but that's of no use whatsoever to anyone who does not believe in God and only limited use to those who are uncertain of their beliefs.

basically, I see God as a parent.

"You" do - we know that - but, again, this kind of stance is of no possible help to those who do not believe in Him - nor, for that matter, is it likely to be especially meaningful to orphans, whatever their beliefs may be - how can they "see God as a parent" when the entire concept of parental presence is unfamiliar to them?

letting go of past hurts instead of mulling over them (over and over as with a train track) is a more viable cure, imo, than going into detail to 'solve' a problem.  some relationships will always be a problem.  perhaps it is time to shorten some relationships and elongate others?  to think about what makes YOU feel right and happy and balanced.  some people put us off balance by being negative themselves.  limit time with them.

The "track" that I notice here is the one back on which you have now gotten (as Churchill might have said, albeit with some alternative for the Americanism "gotten"); again, this makes good sense, both for believers in God, those who are unsure of their beliefs and those who do not believe in Him.

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

you always make good points yourself, alistair - and i read my posts through your lenses and see how you could read them.  also, i see that instead of 'talking down,' which wasn't intended - just letting a person express what they themselves are feeling is more important than rambling.  from my own life experiences - i had the worst depression as a teen, and then i learned some coping skills.  now, my son has had depression and is slowly coming out of it.  i think it is somewhat the world situation (and wondering how he'll fit into the new world scheme - as most teens do when faced with 'making it' in the world) and the complications of life. 

things in my life are often solved more simplistically than in others.  exercise really helped me a lot.  it is hard to put into words.  i was sleeping a lot, as a teen, and became uninterested in anything but music and escaping reality.  of course, parents try as they may - just make things worse sometimes by talking and thinking that talking will solve everything (if they make their points loud enough).  but, this doesn't solve the dilemma of helping the person help themselves.  one day (after several years of depression) i just decided to go out and exercise a little.  it was my decision and something that i thought couldn't hurt.  it sort of snowballed - and after a while i was obsessive-compulsive about going out for an hour or two a day.  this type of addictive behavior didn't have serious consequences - and it ended up being rather helpful.  after taking a tutoring class in college it really dawned on me that many things in life are best learned firsthand - even though it can be easier learned verbally. 

i think adults are more willing to take advice and teens have to 'experience' and fully appreciate depression before they WANT to make changes and come out of it.  it's almost like a reassurance that life is not the rosy bowl of cherries it was as a child.  it's a disappointment.  there's a lot of work involved.  as you get older, you start to appreciate having to work for everything.  even close relationships.  i've learned to make more effort in every area of my life - and especially with friendships. 

there's another area of depression i'm familiar with as a mom, too, and it's not getting out.  a lot of mom's are homebound.  i think the best thing i did when we moved here was to take some uni classes.  but, it could be anything!  to have a pt job.  also, gardening has been a consoling activity as it is something that stays put.  the laundry piles can continue - but if a portion of the garden is weeded - it might stay that way for a week or two.  it's nice to see something constant in one's  life.

[counterpoint]

Experiment with some drugs. They might help.

Scriabin? Messiaen? Kapustin?

[ahinton]

Experiment with some drugs. They might help.

Scriabin? Messiaen? Kapustin?

Point taken (not that I personally needed convincing of it) - and the first two can be quite potent, especially if taken in large doses...

Best,

Alistair

[klick]

Hmm, Well I had a nice Philisophical conversation, kinda cheered me up, but I have a good feeling that this depression will come back again today. I think I will start exercising like pianistimo said.

As for drugs, no dice. I wouldn't really be very comfortable of taking meds, legal or illegal, for what I hope is a teenage temporary problem.

Thanks for all the posts
Klick

[wishful thinker]

what I hope is a teenage temporary problem.

Aha, now we are getting to the crux of the issue.  Hormones    Buggers, aren't they 

[counterpoint]

Point taken (not that I personally needed convincing of it) - and the first two can be quite potent, especially if taken in large doses...

Best,

Alistair

Kapustin is a new drug to me, and I can say, this drug is as potent as the other two mentioned 

[prometheus]

Didn't you hate, or at least dislike, music like that not too long ago?

[counterpoint]

Didn't you hate, or at least dislike, music like that not too long ago?

Do you mean this one?

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,19696.msg214555.html#msg214555


Please read it again. I guess, I was completely misunderstood.   

[pianowelsh]

'for you' 'for you' well she is only bringing in her experience Alister. The idea of a forum is that people of all persuasions bring to the table what they have and a way forward is found.  I have many times been on the edge of a depression and had many many knocks but my relationship with God and the joy of knowing no matter what Im going through he is in control and he is loving towards me keeps me from falling or going on the medication etc etc. Just because it works for me and pianistimo doesnt mean that its only for people of an elitist group. It is possible for anyone  to come to know the joy of the Lord in relationship with him and its the only lasting medication that works - it even takes care of eternity!! God is our strength and our refuge, an ever present help in time of need.  I dont know what you believe or dont believe Klick, but you wont loose anything by sharing your struggles with God and asking for his help. He is loving and is faithfull to hear our desparing cries.  Its a much safer option than drug experimentation.

[maul]

Be pissed off at yourself. Life is the only thing YOU have to work with. If you blame it, you are blaming everything you have to work with. Blame yourself. Change yourself. Thrive.

[counterpoint]

Be pissed off at yourself.

maul, do you think, that will help 

[ahinton]

'for you' 'for you' well she is only bringing in her experience Alister. The idea of a forum is that people of all persuasions bring to the table what they have and a way forward is found.

I don't understand what is meant by your first sentence; perhaps you could explain. As to your second, I do already know what is the "idea" of a forum like this, although this particular one is a piano forum, so pehaps you can also explain what you mean here.

Best,

Alistair

[penguinlover]

As I read through this thread, I had all kinds of things I was thinking to say.  But, thanks Pianistimo and Pianowelsh, you said it all for me.  I have, and still do, struggle with depression, even as a Christian.  But I realize that when I do, my eyes are focused on myself, not others.  I think when we start serving others, and get our attention off ourselves, we are happier.  That's what God does for us, well one of the many things.  He gives us a higher purpose. He helps us look outside ourselves.  Remember, it's not about us.  That is a very selfish attitude.  I know, I have to remind myself daily of that.

[maul]

maul, do you think, that will help

Yes. The first step is to realize that the problem resides within you (if you truly want to change yourself and achieve what you want to achieve), not in everything else.

[prometheus]

So what should he change?

I am kind of baffled at some of the things some people say. How can you know why this person is depressed, if there is any reason for it at all.

Why can't this person be depressed while having a succesful job, nice well-mannered kids, a loving wife, enough time to spend time on his hobbies; golf, in which he is really skilled and collecting old minature paintings from 1600-1700 Europe?

What should this person do to 'snap out of it'. Divorce from his wife, sell his house, buy a sailing boat and criss cross the world randomly? Or buy a hut in Scandinavia or Alaska?

Maybe become a buddhist monk in China/Thailand?

Maybe try to find a mistress? Or maybe he is actually gay and this person should 'snap-out-of-it' by going to darkrooms.

Generally people have depressions for no reason other than the chemicals in their brain.

When a person is dissatisfied with her or his life it would be expected that this person would talk about their lives. Maybe a depressed person can become happier by quitting the busy business job and switching career.

I almost hope these ignorant people will actually get a depression themselves and realise what it is. Yes, you can become depressed tomorrow.

The whole idea that you get a depression when you can't achive what you want to is non-sense. Absurd. Rubbish.

[penguinlover]

What does being gay have to do with it?  Depression is depression, and it attacks anyone.  And if you don't seek help, it doesn't get better on its own. 

[prometheus]

Nothing. It is just the non-sense some people talk about. Like a depressed people must be gay with a boring sex life, causing the depression. And then they don't dare to come out of the closet. They should then 'snap out of it' and go to a darkroom or something by their reasoning.

[ted]

The only contribution I can make to this topic is to say that I used to agree with the "get myself out of it" brigade but have recently been humbled in a big way. All it took was a simple blow on the head from a garage door in the dark. Aside from the physical symptoms of delayed concussion, which were bad enough, I now know exactly what it feels like to have anxiety and a full-blown panic attack in public. I had no more control over it than I would have had over the weather. 

The brain is colossal in its complexity and delicacy. Any sort of simplistic, glib solutions to mental problems are likely to be completely inadequate or downright harmful. I would advise the original poster, if the feeling is lasting and more than the usual "down in the dumps" we all have sporadically, to go straight to the doctor and insist upon being taken seriously.

[pianolearner]

I disagree with Maul. His comments assumes that Klick is doing something wrong and since he or she didn't say anything about his or her life this is impossible. So he assumes that because this person feels depressed something must be wrong. This is almost often not the case.

I agree. People suffering depression can't snap themselves out of it because more often than not they don't know why they snapped into it in the first place. That is what makes it so....depressing.

[prometheus]

Maybe so. But my main point was that they didn't even 'snap into it'. There is nothing wrong with the quality of their life.

[jpianoflorida]

As I read through this thread, I had all kinds of things I was thinking to say.  But, thanks Pianistimo and Pianowelsh, you said it all for me.  I have, and still do, struggle with depression, even as a Christian.  But I realize that when I do, my eyes are focused on myself, not others.  I think when we start serving others, and get our attention off ourselves, we are happier.  That's what God does for us, well one of the many things.  He gives us a higher purpose. He helps us look outside ourselves.  Remember, it's not about us.  That is a very selfish attitude.  I know, I have to remind myself daily of that.

good points!     First you need to find the cause for the depression and determine if it is just a small phase or is it severe? are you depressed because of some certain situation in your life?       I went thru a severe 6month depression many years ago because of a medication for my heart.   My doctor didn't want to believe that the medicine was causing it...I insisted after 6months that he change the meds and i got better almost overnight! So EVERYONE out there, please remember that if you ever have that situation and you think some of your meds could be causing depression.            Penguin lover has as good point about short-term depression not caused by some other factor----get out and do something for others...there are times when i get a little down, but when i go to the nursing home to do a service and look around, I realize I have nothing to complain about.    Now that type of depression you can get yourself out of! BUT there are forms of depression that you really need to see a doctor for and realize it's ok to take meds if you really need it.    I know many of you don't like when threads are turned to religion but I'm sorry, i can't help but say that prayer does help!   And if you haven't tried it, you can't put it down.

[gruffalo]

maul there is depression due to one's life circumstance, be it a situation one forced himself into or a situation that was forced upon one's self. however, there is something called chemical depression. you could be the happiest man in the world, exercise a lot, and nothing going wrong in your life, but you can get hit by this chemical depression, and there is not much you can do about it unless you seek help.

[maul]

I would bet that there are few people with actual chemical inbalances... and I have a feeling (though I doubt there are studies to prove this or disprove this), that these "chemical inbalances" could actually be created in the mind if someone were to continue to be depressed for long periods of time (aka, not doing anything about it. aka, feeling sorry for themselves. aka, being a worthless chunk of matter floating around in the infinity of possibilities and achievement).

[prometheus]

Maul, you spew non-sense.

What should someone that is depressed do?

[donjuan]

I have a feeling (though I doubt there are studies to prove this or disprove this), that these "chemical inbalances" could actually be created in the mind if someone were to continue to be depressed for long periods of time (aka, not doing anything about it. aka, feeling sorry for themselves. aka, being a worthless chunk of matter floating around in the infinity of possibilities and achievement).

the fact of the matter is that you arent sure.  Therefore, you'd better do some research before shooting your mouth off like that.  I have family members with mental health problems, and they were completely normal before it hit.

[pianistimo]

oh.  so now you tell us.  look who's calling the kettle black.  (just kidding).  i also have a schizophrenic uncle who passed away several years ago.  but, on the other side of the coin he was very bright.  he wrote some amazing poetry (to me) - and i think that God sees each of our limitations and it's the 'big picture' that matters.  not to compare ourselves with others.

some of my family and some of my husband's are also quite brilliant.  my father and his father were engineers that worked on some the pentagon and the alcan highway and various roads and construction in alaska.  my husband's cousin is a musical conductor, and his other cousin is a concert pianist.  one of his bro's has technical/scientific background.  and my husband's studies were in physics. 

you know, i think the brain is wired interestingly because very bright people can also go a bit quirky.  but, it all happens the same.  everyone dies at some point.  so - that space between birth and death is important in how we use the time.  we might have limitations - we might not have as many.   i say - try to look at the postives in your life - and when you feel really down - find a friend - someone to cheer you up.  take your med's if you need them.  do what you 'gotta do.'  be consistent (this helps a lot).  and, don't compare your seeming successes with others.  just be yourself.

[thalbergmad]

some of my family and some of my husband's are also quite brilliant. 

What happened to you then??

[penguinlover]

Not funny

[pianowelsh]

Well if you werent depressed whe you started reading this thread you will be by now!!!    I think basically many people have come to the same conclusion. When we focus on ourselves and our own feelings/difficulties/struggles/boredoms - whatever you name it (we can even be depressed because we have nothing else to worry about - its in many ways irrational). Of course there ARE different kinds of depression but ultimately it comes down to a self worth issue (or ME).  Now as to the solution - no one will agree on it because there are very few full proof ways of combating depression, chemically, because the drugs in and of themselves often cuase mood swings and feelings of dependance and self doubt, but not to do anything gen dosent help, sometimes starting new activities can help as it occupies the brain and also has no history which can sometimes be problematic. Perhaps the most contreversial solution is faith in Jesus but in my experience its been the only really lasting one in my own life and the lives of others I know because no matter How bad we are feeling (for whatever reason, bad choices, harsh life, chemical imbalances) God is bigger and more powerfull than our situation and He loves us undiminished even though we may not even be able to love ourselves as we should for a time.

[penguinlover]

Thanks Pianowelsh for reminding me again of things I sometimes forget.

[pianowelsh]

Oh and by the way how are you doing Klick?? whats going on with you nowadays?

[klick]

Well, still a bit depressed. I'm getting better though, playing basketball is helping a lot. Sorry for the long update, I have been working a lot lately, so haven't had much time for forum browsing.

I am getting over my depression slowly but surely. Its good to know that people here care about a person they don't even know or have never talked to before.

Thank You so Much everybody!

Klick

[jpianoflorida]

Just remember even though all the forum members are from different walks of life , religions, nonreligions, etc etc.....   we all do care!   I really feel that most everyone who posts on this forum has a heart for helping people, at least the ones I have seen!   hope you get better and better each day!