Pianostreet, getting better or worse?

[arensky]

Worse I'm afraid. Not enough piano. Too much of everything else. There is much bad behavior and unpleasentness. The bandwidth is being consumed by inane pointless discussions that aren't about piano. And the piano discussions aren't as good as a year ago, either. I think that many of the serious music posters have gone away, unhappy with what they see here. I looked at my statistics a few months ago and was horrified to see how many "anything but piano" posts I had made. Time to cut down. Read the forum rules and guidelines, then surf through the site. You will find many violations. Not a good sign for the future of this site.

PS I wasn't sure where to put this post, I put it here to insure maximum visibility. 

Part of the problem.....

[le_poete_mourant]

That's what happens when you enlarge your product base.  you get those who are miscreants and those who are not seriously concerned with your product.  Besides, it's easier to say stupid, misinformed things about other subjects than it is about piano. 

[cziffra]

Relative to what time?

I think it has improved since like 2 weeks ago where the entire first page of ths poard was covered by threads concerning religion.

However since july 05, it has really gone down the shitter.

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

Without this stress releiver, the piano forum wouldn't exist. Gotta have fun in the process. Much like the many piano schools in Asia. For the first couple of years they focus only on technical material and no pieces. That quickly sets off many students. Same situation here.

What would indeed help is not necessarily bringing down the "Anything" room, but limiting the topics that contribute the most to the board accretion. Namely, those ones that brandish many posts with only a single phrase in text. The "Word Association" thread comes to mind, and several others. Religion related threads are too responsible for the burgeoning of the room, but unfortunately they are the outcome of people's beliefs and thus cannot be expunged completely.

[arensky]

Relative to what time?

I think it has improved since like 2 weeks ago where the entire first page of ths poard was covered by threads concerning religion.

However since july 05, it has really gone down the shitter.

A year ago, since January 06.

[elspeth]

I think the rise of the 'anything but' board is inevitable. For any given subject, there's only so much ground to go over, particularly once a forum has been going a while. Reading the students' board can be quite discouraging as the answer posted to a question is very often 'this has already been asked, go search'. There is a lot of support there but no fresh material because, personailites apart, most beginners have most of the same issues. I imagine the same goes on the other boards, although I must admit that being a beginner I don't read them too much as I have enough problems without worrying about which piece is the hardest, at the moment I'm glad of the easy ones never mind the stupidly difficult! Therefore, the only board that really throws up fresh material is the 'anything but' board.

The above is also why I often only post in 'anything but'. Being a beginner, most of the questions I have are already somewhere on the students' board and the only other board I can really contribute to due to experience/skill level is the 'miscellaneous' as I work in theatres and concert halls so sometimes have concert-related stuff to post. I think that certainly the students' board, and possibly some of the others, are just saturated. The vast majority of the relevant ground has been covered, so if you don't want to duplicate (or to get told off for duplicating), there's nothing left to post.

[thalbergmad]

The vast majority of the relevant ground has been covered, so if you don't want to duplicate (or to get told off for duplicating), there's nothing left to post.

I do agree with you there.

I used to visit the other rooms a fair bit, but some questions used to get responses like, "look here" or "use the search function" or "we have discussed this before". I know duplications can be boring for long term members and i admit i would not get involved in another "am i ready for fantasy impromptu" thread, but to quell new debate over old ground surely discourages new members getting involved.

Most of my posts are now in "anything but piano" for the simple reason i have got little else to say in the others.

Therefore, i either shut up completely or post silly things.

Thal

[pianowolfi]

Principally I come here for piano. Plus I feel somehow at home here after a while. It becomes almost nostalgic. I have visited other piano forums. But none of them caught me in like this one. I have also posted mostly in "anything", right now again . But it's though piano after all. And I've met some very interesting and nice people here . I don't think it gets worse. The annoying discussions can be easily ignored. Things I used to get involved in a few months before, like religious debates, just don't interest me much at the time. 

[arbisley]

When I first started, I used to visit almost only the audition and performance boards, and was mostly interested by posts such as Bernhard and the like. where has Bernhard got to? no more threads from him or about him for a while now, I miss those. And everytime I look at the new topics which have come up, it's almost invariably Anything but piano, although I don't mind them, I do sometimes wonder how much going on piano forum is now adding to my knowledge of the piano and ways to master difficulties.

[jas]

I do agree with you there.

I used to visit the other rooms a fair bit, but some questions used to get responses like, "look here" or "use the search function" or "we have discussed this before". I know duplications can be boring for long term members and i admit i would not get involved in another "am i ready for fantasy impromptu" thread, but to quell new debate over old ground surely discourages new members getting involved.

Yep, it's more fun to be involved in a discussion than it is to simply watch others having one. But on the other side of the coin it is annoying to see the millionth "Which is the hardest Chopin etude?" poll.

It's inevitable that the Anything But Piano forum is bigger than the others. The clue is in the name. There's nothing wrong with wanting to discuss other subjects with like-mided people. Unfortunately, you can't set solid guidelines on what can be discussed, so crap will find its way there and there's very little that can be done about it. You can't please everyone all the time. It's when the other forums get crapped on that it's annoying because you can't really avoid it.

Also, people move on. It's unlikely that people have left because the forum's gone downhill. They just don't post any more, for any number of different reasons. And if the forum has gone down hill and thought-provoking subjects aren't being discussed any more it's because, as elspeth said, there's only so much you can discuss, and people do often get told off for posting duplicate topics.

It's a vicious circle.

Jas

EDIT: Oh, merry christmas to anyone out there who's celebrating it today. (If posting on Piano Street counts as celebrating, that is...)

[pianowolfi]

EDIT: Oh, merry christmas to anyone out there who's celebrating it today. (If posting on Piano Street counts as celebrating, that is...)

Hee hee, yes it does count, at least to me! Besides practising and improvising and thinking about love and peace. 

[gyzzzmo]

alot more rubish and nonsense than when i came first on pianostreet. I suppose there are alot  more more kids and wannabe's who want to brag about their (not available) piano talent.

[Bob]

The biggest complaint I have is how topics can go off track, esp when it has nothing to do with the original topic.  I can see taking a step away to mention something related, but some of them go off into la-la land.  Annoying.

[pianowelsh]

I'll be honest - I get annoyed when I post a topic which is piano or composer centered and people dont give serious answers or it dies out with about 5 posts. People just arent interested in doing the research or being willing to share what they know. We need you to keep trying thal - you have a lot of experience  dont descend into madness

[pianolearner]

Worse I'm afraid. Not enough piano. Too much of everything else. There is much bad behavior and unpleasentness. The bandwidth is being consumed by inane pointless discussions that aren't about piano. And the piano discussions aren't as good as a year ago, either. I think that many of the serious music posters have gone away, unhappy with what they see here. I looked at my statistics a few months ago and was horrified to see how many "anything but piano" posts I had made. Time to cut down. Read the forum rules and guidelines, then surf through the site. You will find many violations. Not a good sign for the future of this site.

PS I wasn't sure where to put this post, I put it here to insure maximum visibility. 

Part of the problem.....

I agree. I suppose most people, like me, know more about anything but piano.

[wishful thinker]

Going downhill?  Not for me, as I find the developing "personalities" very interesting.  Of course things here go "off topic", but is there really a topic in the first place?  If we were discussing the Diabelli Variations, for instance, and someone started going on about the quality of architecure in Genoa, then that would be off topic.  But when the same thing happens in a "what are you eating now?" thread, I don't think it is, unless it was totally unrelated to the other things being discussed.

I see it like being in a pub.  There's a discussion - it starts informally, someone makes a remark, and it develops, often in a totally tangential way.  That's what happens in "real" life and that's what happens in these media.   The people in the pub might all be final year medical students, who share a class and wouldn't dream of discussing certain things in class, of going "off topic", but in the pub its a totally different thing.

There are some people on here who seem very genuine, some not so, some young, some older, some cleaver, some not so cleaver, some with rather extreme views etc.  But I think that they all make a contribution in their own way.  On the whole too, I think that it is fairly friendly; sure, tantrums and fights break out, some people get upset.  But just like in the pub, others will think the spectacle just funny, but pretty much all will be back in the pub the next evening and all will be forgotton.

By the way, welcome back Thal.  What would you like to drink?  A pint of bitter?   

[m1469]

Well, I am surprised that I am even bothering to throw my thoughts in here, but apparently I am writing in anyway, so here I go.

I won't try to decide whether or not the forum is getting "better" or "worse" because that's very subjective, of course, and depends greatly on the individual and why they come here.

When I first started coming here it was a smaller and more intimate environment, and I felt that the 'regular' people here were generally not just serious musicians, but also serious learners, educators, and people with meaty thoughts on life.  I generally felt that the environment was quite a safe place for somebody like me and where I was at in my life to explore some of my bigger questions with others, and to have some genuine learning experiences through what was shared by various people and various viewpoints.  I feel as though I have grown as a person as a result of this experience, and for this I am very grateful, however, I have definitely not felt those same sorts of things *as much* for awhile now.

Some of that has to do with the fact that I have changed and the things I am looking for and needing are different now.  When I first came here, I was pretty fresh out of Uni, very fresh into teaching, and feeling very much like I needed a semi-scholastic, supportive environment to help me continue growing.  I was extremely surprised to find that in an online forum but I recognized the opportunity none-the-less and I decided to take it with full force  .  There is a lot of knowledge that has been expressed here and I am grateful to have that in the archives (and I still have *a lot* to dig through and learn from in just what has already been provided.  That will probably go on for decades  ).

Also, I have met some extremely wonderful people, perhaps even some real friends, and for this I am also extremely grateful.  These people are irreplaceable in my life.

I have never been interested in the "what's the most" type of threads, and I was a little dismayed when those seemed to infiltrate the forum;  I am personally happy that they have their own space now.  And likewise, though I consider myself a spiritual person and desirous to learn about various spiritual and religious things, I did also tire of having that constantly flood posts in almost any board and discussion, by some members.  There are other things, too, but I realize it's not just these things which I could probably still manuvuer around and ignore when I needed to. 

It's the fact that those things are what nearly the entire environment had become, along with a seeming greater harshness expressed by some members and in my experience, the "supportive" atmosphere diminished significantly after a point.  There seemed/seems to be little balance between talks over "who's the best/what's the greatest"/religion/and then random "talks" in da sdc lingo/sex -- compared with PIANO/Music-related stuff that I could actually take to my life-practice and business.  So, manuevering around those things I didn't care for became increasingly difficult and increasingly barren in providing the kind of musical food I was looking for.

I will admit, I have mostly come here to learn and grow and to try to help others when/if possible.  In life, it is a general practice of mine to glean what I can from my circumstances and use those lessons in my life.  It's not that I can't use anything that I have observed recently, I just find that for me anymore, there is a lack of practical new informations that I can bring to what it is that I am doing in my life.  And also, it is not as though I have found that sharing my views and informations had been particularly helpful for anybody else (though it can be argued it was still helpful for me to organize my thoughts through posting certain things).

I do agree that there needs to be some comic flavor and relief.  However, I have never viewed the entire forum as a "pub" and if anything, maybe the 'anything but' board would fall under this category.  But, I have wanted and needed more than a pub experience, personally.

Because of my feelings about my changing experiences at the forum, I have looked to my own life more than I had at one time.  And, instead of just wanting to experience all of the things I was hungry for about music and learning here on the forum, I decided to create that environment that I wanted here, within my own studio and in the rest of my life.  I do not regret that decision in the least because my life has developed a much greater richness because of it.  And in all honesty, it may not have happened in the same ways had I stayed so engaged here on the forum (and if I had reason to stay engaged, I would have).  I believe I am now living what I have learned at the forum, and that is a most important step in any kind of learning process.

Now, I don't know what I am wanting out of being here, nor am I convinced that I can add anything of value to most memebers by being here.  I cannot explain how much I appreciate the sheetmusic selections and recordings, that has been invaluable to me and my business.  But, I know that I am not seeking certain things in the same ways that I once was.  I am different now and I need different things.  I am just not sure what that/those things are.

I have been happy to see more teachers joining, and I know that I can take part in more projects that had been "started" awhile back... 





Cheers,
m1469

[pianowolfi]

Well all you say shows to me that you have taken this forum very seriously. I do take it seriously too, though sometimes I think I even take it too seriously. I mostly agree with what you say here, but one point I can't leave uncommented

And also, it is not as though I have found that sharing my views and informations had been particularly helpful for anybody else

I COMPLETELY disagree here . At least for me you are one of the most competent, most individual and most musically interested persons here and so many of your posts I am often reading again and again. And I am convinced that I am not the only one who thinks like that . And your recordings in the audition room are very precious to me and Ï have listened to most of them many times and they have become a part of my musical life. Perhaps a lot of people just read your posts and think also like that and just don't feel like commenting it more? But I understand that it can be hard if one has the impression that there is not enough feedback. Maybe for people whom are always looking for an opportunity to grow and learn, as you say, it is always not enough feedback? And we musicians live from feedback...And we musicians live a life that sometimes seems to be nothing but hard work, always not being satisfied with one self, giving and giving again and again. A lot of investing, not enough coming back but perhaps it just seems so? Sometimes?

Thank you for all your contributions!

Wolfi

[m1469]

Well all you say shows to me that you have taken this forum very seriously. I do take it seriously too, though sometimes I think I even take it too seriously. I mostly agree with what you say here, but one point I can't leave uncommented.

hee hee... sure.  I guess I take things pretty seriously in general.  It is a favorite defense mechanism of mine, actually  .  It normally assures that I have plenty of alone time and I often end up saying things that people have no idea how to respond to, so that might account for the lack of feedback ... LOL .  I guess I aim to have my efforts always be directed somewhere, and I would certainly not wish to spend as much time here or anywhere else doing something that is similar to "nothing" .  I have never been one to enjoy wasting time, unless wasting time is exactly what I need after burning my candle at both ends for *a long time* without breaks.  By then, I will veg.  But my time here is not all about vegitating (though sometimes it is in a respect).  There is too much info here at my eye-tips (hee hee) to have it be only about vegitating.

Anyway, perhaps you are right about the feedback thing and perhaps it is exactly as you say; for somebody always wishing to learn and grow, it is simply never enough  .  It just is quite impossible to know sometimes if what one does makes any difference whatsoever.  So, after a point, it seems more prudent to spend the time and energy somewhere else, like my own students and teaching in general, for example, or you know, the life I have all around me.

Anyway, thanks for your kind thoughts .  I actually debated whether to have those lines in there because I feared it would seem like fishing, however, it's just how I have felt at times, in all honesty, so I decided 'who cares' and went the risky route, deciding to leave it in  .

[ramseytheii]

m1469's always taken it seriously, no surprise there.  What's gotten bad about this place is the lack of serious dialogue in piano related things.  I mean the "Performance" topics change at a truly glacial rate, and they still aren't interesting.  People are still posting rather interesting or even provocative things outside of this particular part of the forum, but the dialogue element is totally lacking.  There are so many more stupid and sophmoric replies that conversation just gets killed.  Oh, and I don't consider opus12 to be provocative or terribly interesting; if that is what passes for it these days, we are all in trouble!

Walter Ramsey

hee hee... sure.  I guess I take things pretty seriously in general.  It is a favorite defense mechanism of mine, actually  .  It normally assures that I have plenty of alone time and I often end up saying things that people have no idea how to respond to, so that might account for the lack of feedback ... LOL .  I guess I aim to have my efforts always be directed somewhere, and I would certainly not wish to spend as much time here or anywhere else doing something that is similar to "nothing" .  I have never been one to enjoy wasting time, unless wasting time is exactly what I need after burning my candle at both ends for *a long time* without breaks.  By then, I will veg.  But my time here is not all about vegitating (though sometimes it is in a respect).  There is too much info here at my eye-tips (hee hee) to have it be only about vegitating.

Anyway, perhaps you are right about the feedback thing and perhaps it is exactly as you say; for somebody always wishing to learn and grow, it is simply never enough  .  It just is quite impossible to know sometimes if what one does makes any difference whatsoever.  So, after a point, it seems more prudent to spend the time and energy somewhere else, like my own students and teaching in general, for example, or you know, the life I have all around me.

Anyway, thanks for your kind thoughts .  I actually debated whether to have those lines in there because I feared it would seem like fishing, however, it's just how I have felt at times, in all honesty, so I decided 'who cares' and went the risky route, deciding to leave it in  .

[ted]

I have been a member here for almost five years and a member on Pianoworld for possibly a bit longer. I tend to measure the success of my participation by my contribution and how much I have been able to help people. Now, being the sort of person I am, I do not possess the necessary knowledge or experience to be of much use in many of the common musical areas. Accordingly, and wisely, I keep out of such discussions.

However, two things have struck me about the overwhelming majority of posters on piano forums. Firstly, there is the appalling degree to which, explicitly or implicitly, reading between the lines, they are genuinely unhappy or stressed about aspects of their playing and their music, and secondly the sad readiness they have to write themselves off as being unable or unworthy to enjoy the act of creating their own music.

It is concerning the second phenomenon that I think I have been able to make a contribution in the form of encouraging improvisation. I also think the widespread and damaging notion about lack of ability to create is the result of common, memetic falsehoods, which unfortunately are so pervasive and historically entrenched that they are being regarded as truths when they are anything but.

"I cannot create music because my {insert faculty of choice - ear/memory } isn't good enough."
"I cannot create music because what I play doesn't sound like {insert composer of choice} and therefore is no good."
"I cannot create music because I have passed no examinations."
"I cannot create music because my physical technique isn't good enough."
"I cannot create music because I do not understand {insert theory of choice}."
"I cannot create music because {insert person of choice} says so, and he/she is an expert/professor/professional/teacher/concert pianist/jazz pianist."
"I cannot create music because I saw a programme about a child of nine who wrote three concertos mentally before breakfast. All real creators have to be like that."
"I cannot create because of what other people, spouse/children/parents/friends might think about my sounds. They'll know that I can't really improvise."
"I cannot create because I do not sound like {insert style of choice - classical/jazz/serial/new age...}."

False, all of them ! If you can find your way around the piano enough to push a few keys and the results react with your brain in a meaningful way then you are starting to create - end of story.

I systematically try to smash these inhibitions in as many people as I can, both on the forum and off it. Sadly, many are too far gone, and many of these are the most naturally talented musicians. To offset this, I have had one or two remarkable successes and I think I have started a few on the path to musical freedom and joy. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." Although Aleister Crowley was a tragic half-wit in life, this quote of his is supremely relevant to music.

So although I have contributed close to all I can at the present time, and indeed, am slowly posting less and less often, I shall continue to try to impart this freedom to those ready to receive it, either here or elsewhere.

As to the forum being better or worse, it's in the precise state we have made it. We are responsible. It isn't some mysterious external force like the weather.

 

[ramseytheii]

As to the forum being better or worse, it's in the precise state we have made it. We are responsible. It isn't some mysterious external force like the weather.

That's so true.  If we personally haven't contributed to the extreme surplus of inane comments, we certainly let those take over the other rooms of the forum.  Oh who am I kidding, they took over this room too.

I made the first attempt to correct the problem by responding to about 12 topics in Student's Corner.

Walter Ramsey

[soliloquy]

Ah it's the same.  Pianostreet has always had big troublemakers.  In 2003 we had Comme, in 2004 we had Skep, in 2005 we had Mikey_G, in 2006 we had Debussy Symbolism.  We'll see who 2007 brings us to keep things mildly aggravating.  We always have the random ranters like Pianistimo, or Bob and TDS in the past.  We always have the long-winded ones like myself, Alistair and Ramsey.  About the religion thing, pianostreet has ALWAYS gone through phases; there were times when every post was about Alkan, when every post was about Sorabji, when every post was about Xenakis, when every post was about difficulty, when every post was about Totentanz, when every post was about Richter etc. and at this particular moment there's a lot of interest in religion.  Don't worry about it; it will pass.  Pianostreet has a lot of static attributes that won't go away, and it seems to always be moving forward as far as a general interest in something.  I think Roslavets, Mosolov, Lourie etc. are popping into more and more conversations... maybe they will be the next "religion".  Anyway, I think pianostreet will always be a good place to argue with idiots and learn about new pieces, composers, pianists and general trivia

[thalbergmad]

Anyway, I think pianostreet will always be a good place to argue with idiots and learn about new pieces, composers, pianists and general trivia

Well said old boy.

Thal

[m1469]

Ah it's the same. Pianostreet has always had big troublemakers. In 2003 we had Comme, in 2004 we had Skep, in 2005 we had Mikey_G, in 2006 we had Debussy Symbolism. We'll see who 2007 brings us to keep things mildly aggravating. We always have the random ranters like Pianistimo, or Bob and TDS in the past. We always have the long-winded ones like myself, Alistair and Ramsey. About the religion thing, pianostreet has ALWAYS gone through phases; there were times when every post was about Alkan, when every post was about Sorabji, when every post was about Xenakis, when every post was about difficulty, when every post was about Totentanz, when every post was about Richter etc. and at this particular moment there's a lot of interest in religion. Don't worry about it; it will pass. Pianostreet has a lot of static attributes that won't go away, and it seems to always be moving forward as far as a general interest in something. I think Roslavets, Mosolov, Lourie etc. are popping into more and more conversations... maybe they will be the next "religion". Anyway, I think pianostreet will always be a good place to argue with idiots and learn about new pieces, composers, pianists and general trivia

Sure, I recognize that.  However, I just don't feel like there is as much stuff that I am interested in to balance it all out.  That's my point.  Maybe the things that draw you here are still the same, but if you go through the teacher's and student's corner boards, you will see by the dates on the threads that days have gone by without even a new post to an old thread (until lenka came around ).  I guess I could take some attitude to "do my part" but I have done that a bit over the years and needed a break.

Anyway, no matter how you slice it, no Bernhard = worse, or at least very different (meaning, not the same) .  There are still other memebers whom I appreciate very much, but people like xvimbi, CC and others just stopped coming around and that changed the dynamics quite dramatically, in my opinion.  The main meat to the forum discussions, which I can take to my actual life, lay in the archives now, which I am happy about, but it seems those days are done (and that's a little sad to me).  I do think change is good (at least it's inevitable so I try to embrace it), but I just think the forum is finding itself again without some of it's former "heavies."  But, that's life, too.

[ramseytheii]

Well said old boy.

Thal

Huh... he said I was "long-winded!" !!!!     

Walter Ramsey

[rc]

Anyway, no matter how you slice it, no Bernhard = worse, or at least very different (meaning, not the same) .  There are still other memebers whom I appreciate very much, but people like xvimbi, CC and others just stopped coming around and that changed the dynamics quite dramatically, in my opinion.  The main meat to the forum discussions, which I can take to my actual life, lay in the archives now, which I am happy about, but it seems those days are done (and that's a little sad to me).  I do think change is good (at least it's inevitable so I try to embrace it), but I just think the forum is finding itself again without some of it's former "heavies."  But, that's life, too.

I was thinking about this today:  what makes Bernhard's posts so special?  The knowledge and ideas aren't new, it's the effort he put into communicating them, tailored to each individual's question.  If Bernhard were half as lazy as the rest, he would just link to where he got his ideas and make book recommendations.

So it's probably time to repeat the cycle, those who were once asking the questions and have since assimilated the knowledge can now dish it out, in their own way...  and after one gets tired of answering the same questions (that's where the practice of linking to old threads came form anyways), then maybe it's time for that person to either begin to raise new questions (like this thread for example!) or move on.

There are some great old posts, and I think they're worthy of compilation to keep around...  But sometimes a student just wants a simple answer, not 30 pages of discussions from two years ago that will take 3 days to read through. 

Ted & Ramsey got it right, it's what we make it.  Personally the only thing that keeps me from coming here is that my life gets busy and I don't always have a lot of free time to meander and write up responses.

edit: on second thought, it's higher or lower in priority.  When I was trying to figure out how to go about learning piano it was #1, or when I'm looking for an answer or motivation.  Otherwise, it's for when I have time to kill...

[pianojems]

I agree with many of you. It's true that less people post, due to fear that they will annoy everyone with an already posted topic. I also feel that since Bernhard left, things are not quite the same around here, at least on the "piano" board. He had some of the most in depth and interesting  answers to others' questions, which in turn sparked more interesting conversations. Where is he by the way?
 
Many of you wonder why everyone mostly posts in the ABP board. It's because that is the one place where we will not run out of things to talk about. Even though I have to say, many topics came up time, and time again. I don't know if it is getting better or worse, but I miss many old posters that I never see again.

 

[penguinlover]

I still consider myself a newbie, so I don't have much to compare with.  When I first joined, I immersed myself in everything I could.  I was asking specific questions, and got some specific answers.  I enjoyed meeting others who were in the same spot in life I was.  Just knowing people were going through the same stuggles and difficulties as me was a comfort, I didn't feel so isolated. 

But the newness of the forum has waned, and I have learned to just read the threads that pertain to things I want to know.  It helps to know I don't have to respond to everything I read.  I have gleaned much from most of what I read, even the fun stuff.  Sometimes the discussions go over my head, and I feel terrible uneducated, but they just challenge me to learn more.  I don't post in those threads for fear of looking stupid.

So better or worse?  I say the same, there's a lot for me to read still.  The friends I have met are invaluable to me.  I am glad I am here.

[danny elfboy]

Most people agree with me that this new tendency in newsgroups and forums to answer to all questions (with a sort of sarcasm/contempt)
"why don't you use google/function search instead of bothering us?"

That's not only killing the majority of forums and newsgroups bit it's also promoting the illusion that once you've discussed about a subject there's nothing to gain in even repeating the same concepts but with different terms, examples, analogies ... always finding something new and brilliant to ponder about or share in the process

I have written hundreds of posts (with my old nick) about sight-reading
And even nowadays I never ever redirect someone to my old posts
I just answer, repeat what I've been already saying but the result is always different because the person and answering to and its predisposition, attitude, sensitivity, needs, goals are different. And in the process of creating a new post each time to help each unique individual with his/her unique question about sight-reading I always found out something interesting I had not seen before, stimulating ideas and discussions come up

This nonsense about the search-function is becoming another sort of senseless snobbery and its effects have already been devastating

[tds]

  We always have the random ranters like Pianistimo, or Bob and TDS in the past. 

me no ranter tho, else i agree

[pianowelsh]

The whole worlds mad except for thee and me, and even thee im not so sure about!

[tds]

omg, the thee and me thing sounds romantic!