Chopin-Godowsky Etudes

[lisztisforkids]

I think Thalbergmad said this, but it sums up my opinion: 'Why would you want to play any of those? Chopin says more in half the notes'.

[jre58591]

the thematic materia of each etude may be better said in chopin's originals. however, the chopin-godowsky studies are beter at being studies, if you know what i mean. they may be much more difficult, but they are better at refining technique.

[thalbergmad]

I think Thalbergmad said this, but it sums up my opinion: 'Why would you want to play any of those? Chopin says more in half the notes'.

I indeed wrote it here old boy, but it was my teacher that said it to me.

He was distinctly unimpressed when i played him the Hamelin recording of the Op10 No6. At the time, my right hand was out of action and i was looking for a left hand piece. Sensibly, i ended up with the Bach-Brahms Chaconne.

I do love a lot of Godowsky's music, but personally i find it difficult to listen to more than 3 or 4 of these etudes at one sitting, whereas i could easily listen to the originals 3 or 4 times over.

Perhaps my tastes will change as they have done in the past, or perhaps because they are way out of my league, i do not love them as i should.

Thal

[iumonito]

Would you add to the poll an option for "They are independent from the Chopin originals and both have their own unique and incomparable artistic merit."

They are no better and no worse, nor the same.  They are just different.

Only a fool would think that the Chopin originals are in any way affected for Godowsky's Studies based on them.

The Godowsky's have great value in their motivic concentration and the tremendous development they represent for polydynamic, polyrhythmic and polyphonic music for piano.

Plus, they are beautiful.  Get Hatto's set; then we can talk.

[jre58591]

this might be a bit off topic, but i actually got hatto's set of both the chopin-godowsky studies and chopin etudes and i wasnt too impressed with either, overall. she had some rather dull and flat interpretations for some of them. however, her technique is just beyond belief, most of the time. for the chopin-godowsky studies you cant go wrong with hamelin. i dont care what anyone says. sure, he has his faults, but his are the best thing out there, as far as ive heard.

[dnephi]

Personally.. I prefer 10-6 GodChop version.  Pure Genisu (Checking the censor :p). 

Overall, I think that if I had the Chops to take these on (haha) I might go for them.  Some I think are a bit too much, but I take it in stride and remember that it's also about technical development.

[opus10no2]

They're different, not trying to compete.

They are almost invariably richer and more complex, but they are a little uneven.

Many people don't get into them because they haven't heard great performances of them.

[ahinton]

Would you add to the poll an option for "They are independent from the Chopin originals and both have their own unique and incomparable artistic merit."

They are no better and no worse, nor the same.  They are just different.

Only a fool would think that the Chopin originals are in any way affected for Godowsky's Studies based on them.

The Godowsky's have great value in their motivic concentration and the tremendous development they represent for polydynamic, polyrhythmic and polyphonic music for piano.

Plus, they are beautiful.  Get Hatto's set; then we can talk.

I've already lost count of the number of things with which I agree 110% here!

Best,

Alistair

[lisztisforkids]

Thanks, I will listen to some of those recording mentioned.  Maybe im a little uptight. Will give them another chance.

[jre58591]

who voted saying that they hate them? i demand a reason why!

[franzliszt2]

I hated them at first,  but I give them a 5th chance, and now I really love them. I read through them all a few times, quite recently, and there is so much amazing stuff. 

I must admit though, that at first the difficulty attracted me, and I was amazed at the sheer virtuosity of them, and it changed my view of piano virtuosity. Gowodsky's piano writing and views are amazing, I mean why not learn op25no6 with the LH doing the 3rds? When I tried these etudes I realised my technique was nowhere near as good as I thought. Especially my LH. The Chopin etudes have many holes in them, and I think Godowsky fills them perfectly and builds upon material already given.

I think that the Gowodsky studies are much fuller in terms of technique. I mean the Chopin etudes are great, but there is so many holes. A huge one being the LH. Nothing in the Chopin etudes presents HUGE problems for the LH. I practice some Godowsky LH studies, becasue they are amazing.

op25.5 is just incredible. I prefer the Godowsky version to the Chopin version of that 

[iumonito]

Thanks, I will listen to some of those recording mentioned.  Maybe im a little uptight. Will give them another chance.

If I may, perhaps it is all a matter of what you have in your mind and heart when you approach this music in specific and transcriptions and arrangements in general.

The merit of such piece of music lies entirely in the intentions of the second-in-time composer, her of his ability and creativity, and the intrinsic musical merit of the second-in-time musical work.

For example, with the Godowsky etudes, I think it would be helpful to you while or prior to your exploration of these pieces, to read Godowsky's preface and annotations, which accompany the score.  They make clear the enourmous reverence he had for these originals.

Then consider what is it that Godowsky is doing.  I must confess I am less interested in the mechanical advancements these studies pose.  What grabs my attention is the harmonic language, the motivic concentration and the attention to polyphony poured into these pages.  There is lots of humor in there, the witty kind, and also lots of pathos.  I find the Op. 10 # 6, for example, trascendentally profound.  And invariably I get a smile when Godowsky presents the harmonic and melodic contour of Op. 25 # 2 by the figuration means of Op. 10 # 10, or when he overlaps the figurations and mostly the harmonic contour of Op. 25 # 9 and Op. 10 #5.

These may not be the best entry point to this literature, though.  Do you like lieder or opera?  Maybe something less incestous than music for piano transcribed for piano would be a a better fit.  See if you like this (forgive me for the playing, I mean just the music):

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,9563.0.html