pianists=homosexuals??!?!?!?!?

[imbetter]

this is an issue that has infuriates me that these ignorant people like my older brother automatically assume that your a pianist your a homosexual...

there are only 2 pianists i know of that are/were homosexuals, and the only composer i know of that was a homosexual is tchaikovsky.

why do people assume that since your a pianist your gay?

has anybody else had an issue like that

PS: i'm NOT a homosexual

[ramseytheii]

There are actually three kinds of pianists: homosexual pianists, Jewish pianists, and bad pianists.

Walter Ramsey

[ganymed]

but maybe that prejudice is somehow true
after all horowitz was gay too if im not mistaken ?

[0range]

In this day and age, a lot of gay guys get more womanly attention than the straight guys.

All you need to do is wait for a strategic moment (read: dancing, alcohol) to be miraculously "converted" by her charms.

[phil13]

but maybe that prejudice is somehow true
after all horowitz was gay too if im not mistaken ?

Da Ho was bi, actually. He preferred the company of men, but he was not completely homosexual.

I haven't had a problem with this. This is almost as stupid as the other thread in which people argued that all organists are gay. (no pun intended, I'm sure... )

Phil

[rc]

Your brother knows it bugs you

[counterpoint]

Your brother knows it bugs you

Yes, imbetter's brother says such ugly things because he wants to irk him 

So my next question is: do pianists have better sex than non-pianists? 

[bench warmer]

Most pianists  Do IT with their staff; a lot of 'em Do IT in all the Bars too. 

 

[rc]

 

They'll DO IT even if every voice in the bar is slurred!

[pianowolfi]

So my next question is: do pianists have better sex than non-pianists? 

Yes. Because their fantasy and imagination is highly-developed. 

[soliloquy]

there are only 2 pianists i know of that are/were homosexuals, and the only composer i know of that was a homosexual is tchaikovsky.

Tchaikovsky
Davies
Bussotti
Boulez
Feldman
Glass
Handel
Corelli
Fernehough
Finnissy
Barraque
Barber
Ives
Britten
Copland
Corigliano
Ades
Vivier
Higdon
Del Tredici
Harrison
Bernstein
Cage
Cowell
Poulenc
Rorem
Szymanowski
Wuorinen
Sorabji


Disputed homosexuality/bisexuality:

Scriabin
Ravel
Saint-Saens



And many many other American, French, English and Italian contemporary composers.




Also, am not going to take the time to write out 200 gay pianists, but only 2?  Horowitz, Richter, Cliburn.  There's three.

[ganymed]

Richter was gay?  i never thought so

but this is a very interesting to analyze from a psychological point of view why so many pianists are gay

[zheer]

  Women are like drugs ,you can get addicted.

[imbetter]

Tchaikovsky
Davies
Bussotti
Boulez
Feldman
Glass
Handel
Corelli
Fernehough
Finnissy
Barraque
Barber
Ives
Britten
Copland
Corigliano
Ades
Vivier
Higdon
Del Tredici
Harrison
Bernstein
Cage
Cowell
Poulenc
Rorem
Szymanowski
Wuorinen
Sorabji


Disputed homosexuality/bisexuality:

Scriabin
Ravel
Saint-Saens



And many many other American, French, English and Italian contemporary composers.




Also, am not going to take the time to write out 200 gay pianists, but only 2?  Horowitz, Richter, Cliburn.  There's three.

richter was married

[phil13]

Guys can be gay and married. Or bisexual. It happens.

Phil

[soliloquy]

richter was married

There is no dispute.  Do some research.  I mean like... lol... he was even open about it.  Also, I was under the impression that he was not "officially" ever married.


Glenn Gould, also gay.

[philippa]

There are actually three kinds of pianists: homosexual pianists, Jewish pianists, and bad pianists.

Walter Ramsey

I'm a bad pianist

[dnephi]

Handel and Corelli were not homosexual.

[jakev2.0]

Glenn Gould, also gay.

Umm. No.

[opus10no2]

I *heart* phallus.

[danny elfboy]

Well it's actually very easy to understand such stereotype.

Culturally there's a bias in considering females more emotional, sensitive and passional than males. Of couse this is nonsense but the stereotype (which has actually a political and religious source) created also the internalization of the role. Not only that but different kinds of allowed and forbidden (according to gender) activities concretized the constructed role even more. (read Mills, Fausto-Sterling, Warner, Halperin)

Culturally there's a bias to consider homosexuality as a sort of femininity of the male.
Decades ago some called it "the third sex" or again "the soul a female trapped in a male body". So a strong link between homosexuality and femininity has been created (again the homosexual culture itself internalized the role). The idea is that male-attraction for a male comes from identifying yourself as a female. The concepts that attraction towards a male is just the attraction towards an individual and is role-less or that male friendship can in many instances develop into more intimate levels is just crossed out.
And yet all we need would be to study the history of painting arts from Greek to modern to understand how genderless attraction was the norm and what kind of political forces moulded the binary conception of attraction and love. So indeed this concept is nonsense too. (read Buthler, Foucault, Derrida)

This has reached nowadays such an high degree that whatever is not inherently mysogenist, solely interested in farting, burping, watching sport in television while drinking liters of beer is considered to a more or lesser extent "feminine".
In fact many practices that are rooted in the cultures of certain populations like meditation, walking for the pleasure of having a contact with nature, poetry, rituals (including those where nakedness is a factor) can be considered by the western mentality a form of femininity or gayness or whatever. It's not by chance that traditionally those same cultures have less repressive and binary conceptions of attraction. I won't even comment on how retarded is the western mentality in this regard.

So it's pretty easy to make 2 + 2 and link whatever activity which involves strong feelings, passions, emotions and actually encourages by its very nature the disinhibition of those sensations feminine hence, whe linked with males, homosexual. It's pure nonsense of course so it's not even worth getting infuriated for such banal simplistic and ignorant thinking.

[thalberg]

IMBetter is 12 years old---and you all are being really terrible to him!!  I'm shocked by this ridiculous reinforcement of the stereotype.

I spent 6 years at a conservatory, and the one thing I discovered was that the pianist=gay stereotype ONLY ONLY ONLY applies in America.  In Russia and elsewhere, the arts in general are NOT thought of as gay and they cannot believe we americans are silly enough to think that.  My two best friends in grad school were first rate pianists, both completely straight.  One was Chinese, one was American.  I also had friends from Bulgaria and Israel and Lithuania--many of whom played Carnegie Hall several times, performed with artists like Gidon Kremer and Hilary Hahn, released CDs--and they were all straight.

Sure, you're naming a lot of "gay" pianists--but why don't you try naming some straight pianists or composers.  Beethoven, Bach, and Mozart were straight.  I've known a total of about 17 male piano professors, most with doctorates, and all completely straight--married or avidly dating women.  Elsewhere Sergei Babayan was mentioned on this board.  I know him personally--totally STRAIGHT.  John Perry--STRAIGHT.  John Kimura Parker--STRAIGHT.  I have friends who studied with these people.

It just LOOKS like there are a lot of gay pianists because people PRY into famous people's lives.  You'd be SHOCKED how many gay professional football and hockey players there are, but no one ever talks about it or they really keep it hidden.

IMbetter--your brother is being a great big jerk, don't listen to him, and don't believe what he says.  I also recommend that you find a way to retaliate.

[pita bread]

John Perry--STRAIGHT.

Hahahahahahaha

Gotta love that guy

[soliloquy]

Handel and Corelli were not homosexual.

Do you just blurt random things out without doing research?  This is offensively stupid.

[Kassaa]

Glenn Gould, also gay.

More like asexual right?

[imbetter]

IMBetter is 12 years old---and you all are being really terrible to him!!  I'm shocked by this ridiculous reinforcement of the stereotype.

I spent 6 years at a conservatory, and the one thing I discovered was that the pianist=gay stereotype ONLY ONLY ONLY applies in America.  In Russia and elsewhere, the arts in general are NOT thought of as gay and they cannot believe we americans are silly enough to think that.  My two best friends in grad school were first rate pianists, both completely straight.  One was Chinese, one was American.  I also had friends from Bulgaria and Israel and Lithuania--many of whom played Carnegie Hall several times, performed with artists like Gidon Kremer and Hilary Hahn, released CDs--and they were all straight.

Sure, you're naming a lot of "gay" pianists--but why don't you try naming some straight pianists or composers.  Beethoven, Bach, and Mozart were straight.  I've known a total of about 17 male piano professors, most with doctorates, and all completely straight--married or avidly dating women.  Elsewhere Sergei Babayan was mentioned on this board.  I know him personally--totally STRAIGHT.  John Perry--STRAIGHT.  John Kimura Parker--STRAIGHT.  I have friends who studied with these people.

It just LOOKS like there are a lot of gay pianists because people PRY into famous people's lives.  You'd be SHOCKED how many gay professional football and hockey players there are, but no one ever talks about it or they really keep it hidden.

IMbetter--your brother is being a great big jerk, don't listen to him, and don't believe what he says.  I also recommend that you find a way to retaliate.

where do you know sergei babyon from?

[soliloquy]

More like asexual right?

I dunno there is a lot of with Glenn Gould.  I have a friend that had done a few concerts with him and she told me he was gay though so I just go with that.

[mikey6]

Do you just blurt random things out without doing research?  This is offensively stupid.

it's only rumuors about Handel, there is no concrete evidence.  No one mentioned Schubert. but same goes for him and Ravel.

[steinwaymodeld]

Liberace and Lang Lang both have something to do with that.

[thalberg]

where do you know sergei babyon from?

I went to the Cleveland Institute of Music for six years.  He teaches there.  I went to his recitals, performances, and sat next to him at the piano competition there and we visited.  I'm also very close friends with two of his students who studied with him for 5 years each.  I've heard a LOT about him from them...and there is no question...he's straight.  Extremely straight.

[steinwaymodeld]

richter was married

he wasn't married, that was his 'life-long' partner.

And yea, he is gay.

[imbetter]

I went to the Cleveland Institute of Music for six years.  He teaches there.  I went to his recitals, performances, and sat next to him at the piano competition there and we visited.  I'm also very close friends with two of his students who studied with him for 5 years each.  I've heard a LOT about him from them...and there is no question...he's straight.  Extremely straight.

i met him before too

[ahinton]

Tchaikovsky
Davies
Bussotti
Boulez
Feldman
Glass
Handel
Corelli
Fernehough...

It's "Ferneyhough", actually - but he's gay? Really??

Best,

Alistair

[soliloquy]

It's "Ferneyhough", actually - but he's gay? Really??

Best,

Alistair

IT IS???  REALLLY???  Jeeze, and I've been misspelling it all my life.  Not.


And I was certainly under the impression he is.

[ahinton]

IT IS???  REALLLY???  Jeeze, and I've been misspelling it all my life.  Not.


And I was certainly under the impression he is.

Well, it's certainly news to me. I think that he's been married three or four times (not that this is necessarily an indicator here). It's none of my business, anyway and, as I have had cause to remark on any number of past occasions, the importance of any composer's sexual preferences is in truth of constructive interest only to his/her sexual partner/s; if one listens to any music by homosexual composers without knowing in advance that they are/were homosexual, nothing in the music itself would give that sexual preference away.

It might arguably be rather more interesting to ponder on why so many composers are/were homosexual (the very length of your list is quite instructive in this respect), if anyone wanted to try to form some kind of conclusion as to whether there might be some definable and explicable relationship between the act of composition and homosexual preference; that said, however, I believe that even this would be on a hiding to nothing much since, as one could just as easily compile an equally long list of non-homosexual composers, that particular cap seems not to fit.

Best,

Alistair

[jakev2.0]

I dunno there is a lot of with Glenn Gould.  I have a friend that had done a few concerts with him and she told me he was gay though so I just go with that.

Gould either a) didn't have any sexual relationships or b) did and didn't tell anyone about it.   

Anything beyond this is wild speculation.

[minor9th]

What's next--pianists who don't use toilet paper?

[counterpoint]

What's next--pianists who don't use toilet paper?

I'm so sick of all these lists, where famous people are accused or acclaimed for being manic depressive, gay, having AD(H)S, "Asperger's" etc.

w t f

[ahinton]

I'm so sick of all these lists, where famous people are accused or acclaimed for being manic depressive, gay, having AD(H)S, "Asperger's" etc.

w t f

You are not alone...

Best,

Alistair

[rc]

I took a week off the computer and when I came back to the forums it seemed to me there were a lot of bored people filling their time.  That's probably also be the case when people are analysing the dead.

[jakev2.0]

Recent evidence has come to light suggesting that Beethoven was a huge fan of Clay Aiken. Make your own conclusions.

[soliloquy]

I'm so sick of all these lists, where famous people are accused or acclaimed for being manic depressive, gay, having AD(H)S, "Asperger's" etc.

w t f

Um, nearly everyone on that list is openly gay, and the very very few that weren't there is a huge amount of evidence to support it.  Nobody is really being "accused".

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I'm sure I once read an essay on Beethoven which claimed

a) that he was black
b) that the Immortal Beloved was a man

And, yes, the essay was serious. (I think..)

[ramseytheii]

Um, nearly everyone on that list is openly gay, and the very very few that weren't there is a huge amount of evidence to support it.  Nobody is really being "accused".

As the great Hungarian author Sandor Marai wrote, "To identify is to accuse."

Walter Ramsey

[jakev2.0]

I saw you at McDonalds yesterday Ramsey...sorry if you felt accused. 

[ahinton]

Um, nearly everyone on that list is openly gay, and the very very few that weren't there is a huge amount of evidence to support it.  Nobody is really being "accused".

I didn't say that they were "accused" (and I do realise that you were not replying to me). The points that I would make - once again - are (a) that there could be an equally large list of people in the same profession who are / were not (or seem not to be / have been) homosexual and (b) the sexuality or otherwise of anyone on either list appears not to prove or disprove anything about their professional activities; if you think differently, do please say so and why.

Best,

Alistair

[ramseytheii]

I saw you at McDonalds yesterday Ramsey...sorry if you felt accused. 

I went to Wendy's yesterday.

Walter Ramsey

[desordre]

 Dear fellows:
 I just can't stop laughing here... From the very beggining of this thread, I was confronted with the harsh reality:
 

There are actually three kinds of pianists: homosexual pianists, Jewish pianists, and bad pianists.
 

Well, bad news to myself.

 Then, this milestone of history revision (such as "Shakespeare was four women", or "Bach's works were written by his wife"):

I'm sure I once read an essay on Beethoven which claimed
a) that he was black
b) that the Immortal Beloved was a man

 Now, I want to get some serious. I think we talk about this controversy because there are, unfortunately, so much prejudice in our world yet. To myself, particularly, the fact that a composer/performer was/is gay or not interest as much as his eyes' color, or his pet's name. I have some friends that are gay, and this never did matter at all. They know I'm not, and we respect each other choice. I think it's strange someone can be "accused" of being gay. Sounds as absurd as someone being accused of being "black", or "vegetarian", or "hindu", or "pianist". 

 Prejudice and ignorance, that always walk close together, are a major problem of our world. Think about the last century, and see how many times this was a cause of horrible problems. Prejudice against jews, gays, blacks, communists, latin-american, older, women. Can't we just take it simple? "Mr(s). A is/isn't gay". Period. What else does it interest or must be discussed?
 
 Finally, some words to ImBetter:
 As some people told you above, your brother do this just to annoy you (in spite the fact that he's probably 50% right), but consider the fact that you don't have to get neither annoyed nor "infuriated", as you said. Sexuality is something, if you are 12, you will discover in the following years, and it's something very personal and exclusive. If you have questions or problems, talk to your parents, or to a close friend, or to a shrink. Don't trust this crazy people out here! 
 Play your piano and just don't mind about your brother.
 
 Best wishes!

[desordre]

 PS: and change this nickname. You think you're better than what? 

[ihatepop]

I don't CARE if pianists are homosexual or not! I just care about their music.

Btw, to the guy who mentioned that Corelli and Handel were gay, I got news for you. Were they 'pianists' in the first place?

ihatepop