Cziffra Discussion

[soliloquy]

Cziffra was good but I am better. Ian Pace

The fact that A- the person here does not say that Cziffra was bad, and that B- comme did not respond to this post, would indicate that it is indeed him, or less likely, someone he is colluding with.

[cziffra]

https://inkpot.com/classical/brahmscziffra.html

This is probably his most representative album, it shows his greatest genius.

could you U/L this to sdc?

[Mozartian]

So a couple of random guys think Cziffra sucks. I'm sure he'd be so upset to hear that. 

Not all of Cziffra's recordings show him at his best- whose do? But his best are absolutely sublime. He definitely has his place among the greats, and should be given some respect.

If you don't like him, listen to someone else, simple as that.

[steinwaymodeld]

Quote from the inkpot:

"Amidst all the tinkling trills and convulsing grace-notes, however, Cziffra never loses the thrust of the innate rhythm, and it is seldom that the melodic line is not evident above the unbelievable earthquakes and volcanoes that he commands from the singular instrument."

The innate rhythm, that's what i am talking about. (This is also the reason I still prefer Horowitz's Saint Saen Dance Marcarbe recording over all others: Volodos, and some other japanese guy who played it hell-alot faster.)
And I think it points out Cziffra' uniqueness pretty nicely.

[franzliszt2]

he got all his recordings from HMV (and he think that's a reliable source of good music), that was the problem.

Also an indicator of his n00bness.

what the hell you on about? HMV is a respectable place, and how does that make me a noob? Get a life man, and develop sopme opinions, you still havn't even given me a decent reason to like him.

Quote from the inkpot:

"Amidst all the tinkling trills and convulsing grace-notes, however, Cziffra never loses the thrust of the innate rhythm, and it is seldom that the melodic line is not evident above the unbelievable earthquakes and volcanoes that he commands from the singular instrument."

The innate rhythm, that's what i am talking about. (This is also the reason I still prefer Horowitz's Saint Saen Dance Marcarbe recording over all others: Volodos, and some other japanese guy who played it hell-alot faster.)
And I think it points out Cziffra' uniqueness pretty nicely.

All pianists have a sense of rhythm, it's kind of a bit of a basic thing to have.

 

I wonder what would qualify as a good argument for Cziffra's artistry to franzliszt2, since he seems to dismiss them all and tries to give the impression that he's got all those "experts" on his side. I on the other hand have understood that its mainly critics who either bash or praise Cziffra, there's always something to Cziffra's playing that seems to divide the opinion into extremes. I also completely agree with gruffalo about Cziffra bringing Liszt to life, he definitely didn't get called the reincarnation of Liszt (regarding performance) for nothing.

Yeh, he can't even play his sonata, so he must be the reincarnation?? So far we've had his musical grand galop as the key factor to the debate. Does it really take a genius to play Liszt like Cziffra? I'd rather play Chopin like Rubinstein. Has anyone heard Moisewotitsch play Liszt? That is how Liszt should be played. Arrau's Liszt sonata?? Richters Liszt sonata? How can you says cziffra is great after them? He is not serious about the music in anyway.

You compare Horowitz's rhythm to 2 great pianists don't you steinwaymodeld...Volodos and random japanese guy...and you mentioned speed as if thats important. 

[opus10no2]

Once a douche, always a douche 

Can't say I never tried.

[pita bread]

what the hell you on about? HMV is a respectable place, and how does that make me a noob? Get a life man, and develop sopme opinions, you still havn't even given me a decent reason to like him.

Dude, there's been plenty more-than-decent reasons mentioned.

[pita bread]

Oh and by the way, who's your favorite pianist?

[elevateme_returns]

So a couple of random guys think Cziffra sucks. I'm sure he'd be so upset to hear that. 

Not all of Cziffra's recordings show him at his best- whose do? But his best are absolutely sublime. He definitely has his place among the greats, and should be given some respect.

If you don't like him, listen to someone else, simple as that.

look, it's not like me and franzliszt2 started this discussion is it. ive disliked cziffra for ages but never said owt about it. then all of a sudden comme copies our msn chats onto piano street? what am i supposed to do?

[opus10no2]

Admit you are owned, it's that easy.

[elevateme_returns]

Once a douche, always a douche 

Can't say I never tried.

why a douche? stop using that word btw youre not american you just look like a prat.

but why is he a douche? because he dislikes one of your favourite pianists?

[elevateme_returns]

Admit you are owned, it's that easy.

what the *** are you on about?!??!?

WE DIDNT ASK YOU TO PUT THIS CZIFFRA CHAT ON PIANO STREET.

why did you do it??? to start a bloody argument!!!! for god's sake its so pathetic!!!

[opus10no2]

Yes, that is the dictionary definition of a douche.

Tell it to your daddy once were done. 

[elevateme_returns]

you're not even funny at all. i cant believe ive been sucked in to arguing about cziffra when thats exactly what you wanted.

[opus10no2]

Don't cry 'bout it sugar, sucking you in was a pleasure for me, you may aswell enjoy it too sweetiepie, you ain't going nowhere fast.

[elevateme_returns]

Oh and by the way, who's your favorite pianist?

by the way if you mean me at the moment it's radu lupu

opus10no2 you're the most pathetic person ive ever known.

[opus10no2]

Well ain't that precious, looks like little kitty here got claws, hope you don't bite too hun.

[pita bread]

by the way if you mean me at the moment it's radu lupu

opus10no2 you're the most pathetic person ive ever known.

You know, according to David Dubal's book, Lupu recorded the Prokofiev 2nd...

[franzliszt2]

Pita bread my favoutite pianists are numerous. Freidman, Moisewoitch, Rachmaninoff, Richter, Schnabel etc.. Musicians!!! People who play tge piano for the sake of the music, as oppose to speed.

[steinwaymodeld]

Pita bread my favoutite pianists are numerous. Freidman, Moisewoitch, Rachmaninoff, Richter, Schnabel etc.. Musicians!!! People who play tge piano for the sake of the music, as oppose to speed.

i don't think they play 'musically' stems from the idea that 'oppose to speed'

certain speed is needed to be sustained in order to achieve particular dramatic effect (same as dynamics)

imagine the fugue of the Hammerklavier if it is being played that lasts 30 mins, I am sure no matter how 'MUSICAL' one's approach is, some taste in the fugue would be lost.

[nicco]

Listen to this and tell me its not musical. I dare you.

[attachment removed by admin]

[gruffalo]

Listen to this and tell me its not musical. I dare you.

already uploaded it above.

[elevateme_returns]

i don't think they play 'musically' stems from the idea that 'oppose to speed'

certain speed is needed to be sustained in order to achieve particular dramatic effect (same as dynamics)

imagine the fugue of the Hammerklavier if it is being played that lasts 30 mins, I am sure no matter how 'MUSICAL' one's approach is, some taste in the fugue would be lost.

no he means for the sake of the music instead of the sake of the speed. always music first - speed if necessary.

[franzliszt2]

Yes I agree elevateme, but remember speed is the easieats thing for simple minds to hear. He says speed is needed to be sustained in order to create dramatic effect hahahahahahaha. Yes, another almighty Cziffra fan we have, speed!!!!! Speeedddddd!!!!!!

[Mozartian]

Yes I agree elevateme, but remember speed is the easieats thing for simple minds to hear. He says speed is needed to be sustained in order to create dramatic effect hahahahahahaha. Yes, another almighty Cziffra fan we have, speed!!!!! Speeedddddd!!!!!!

Yes, speed is sometimes needed for dramatic effect- just as slowing down is sometimes needed for dramatic effect. Just as you could ruin something like Debussy's Clair de Lune by playing it like a bat out of hell, so could you ruin something like the Winterwind etude by playing it moderately. Tempo is a part of musicality just as much as dynamics and phrasing are.

[steinwaymodeld]

Yes I agree elevateme, but remember speed is the easieats thing for simple minds to hear. He says speed is needed to be sustained in order to create dramatic effect hahahahahahaha. Yes, another almighty Cziffra fan we have, speed!!!!! Speeedddddd!!!!!!

go away douche.

[steinwaymodeld]

no he means for the sake of the music instead of the sake of the speed. always music first - speed if necessary.

i agree that should be the case, i am just suprised that u think cziffra is one of the all-speed, no -brain person.

it's just like because a kid is very good at math, u say he probably suck at literature, which is not necessary the case.

[jakev2.0]

Cziffra is a great artist and a great pianist. He has an instantly recognizable sound, unique and very natural command of rhythm, and at his best is phenomenally exciting. The latter is something you cannot say about too many pianists today. Sure, he did some things in bad taste (silly flight of the bumblebee arrangement etc.), but he was also brave enough to record improvisations - some of which are pretty good. Enough with the Cziffra hating.

[steinwaymodeld]

Cziffra is a great artist and a great pianist. He has an instantly recognizable sound, unique and very natural command of rhythm, and at his best is phenomenally exciting. The latter is something you cannot say about too many pianists today. Sure, he did some things in bad taste (silly flight of the bumblebee arrangement etc.), but he was also brave enough to record improvisations - some of which are pretty good. Enough with the Cziffra hating.

amen, jake.

[elevateme_returns]

Enough with the Cziffra hating.

tell that to opus10no2. i didnt want to start a debate or argument or anything.

[opus10no2]

(silly flight of the bumblebee arrangement etc.), but he was also brave enough to record improvisations - some of which are pretty good.

Well, I personally think his FOTBB is one of the most remarkable and distinctive pieces of piano writing in the latter half of the 20th century.

The variety of figuration and colour in this piece really makes the original sound bare and undramatic by comparison.

His improvisations are more than 'pretty good', he could take a theme and dress it up in any number of exciting ways, and so much more.

[elevateme_returns]

Well, I personally think his FOTBB is one of the most remarkable and distinctive pieces of piano writing in the latter half of the 20th century.

The variety of figuration and colour in this piece really makes the original sound bare and undramatic by comparison.

sorry, i dont mean to laugh, but

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAA HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAHAAHAAAHAAHAAAHAHAHAHAAAHAAHAAHAHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAH AHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAHAAHAAAHAAHAAAHAHAHAHAAAHAAHAAHAHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAA AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAHAAHAAAHAAHAAAHAHAHAHAAAHAAHAAHAHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAHAAHAHAHAH AHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAHAAHAAAHAAHAAAHAHAHAHAAAHAAHAAHAHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAHAAH AHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAHAAHAAAHAAHAAAHAHAHAHAAAHAAHAAHAHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA AAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAHAAHAAAHAAHAAAHAHAHAHAAAHAAHAAHAHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[nicco]

Grow up.

[elevateme_returns]

why?

[opus10no2]

Go back to KINDAHGARTEN!

NOW!

[elevateme_returns]

Well ain't that precious, looks like little kitty here got claws, hope you don't bite too hun.

[opus10no2]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 

T-bag owns 

[franzliszt2]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA sorry, but we are having a musical conversation and opus10no2 comes uop with Flight of the bumblebee hahahahahaha CLASSIC!!!!

And may I add that opus10no2 likes Idel Biret 

[elevateme_returns]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 

T-bag owns 

dont laugh at your own jokes you pathetic little man

[steinwaymodeld]

dont laugh at your own jokes you pathetic little man

I think one should have the ability to laugh at oneself, it's a crucial key to be successful.

[elevateme_returns]

maybe a bit, but not HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[opus10no2]

Damn, it feels better than it could ever do with you, I know my own pleasure zones 

Stop being so immature, poopypants 

[elevateme_returns]

sorry are you talking to yourself?

[opus10no2]

Yes, you are a part of me.

A damn pretty part 

[pita bread]

Grow up.

why?

At least you don't deny it.

[elevateme_returns]

thanks lol im 16, i can act how i want really

[rach n bach]

That's right...

never act any more mature than your age.

People might actually respect you some. 

[elevateme_returns]

well hopefully they will respect me enough from my scarbo in the audition room?

also... do you respect opus10no2?

[krittyot]

I'd rather play Chopin like Rubinstein. Has anyone heard Moisewotitsch play Liszt? That is how Liszt should be played.

I didn't know u attended the Liszt recital. Let us know when you plan to go to the Chopin recital. I'm curious to know. The way you develop your thought and opinion in this thread is totally phenomenal, arguably mentally retarded.

It's creature like you that brings shame to humanity.

[elevateme_returns]

well hopefully they will respect me enough from my scarbo in the audition room?

also... do you respect opus10no2?

....no comment...