Did Hitler believe in Jesus.

[zheer]

 

[pianistimo]

hitler?  in Jesus?  when he kills jews and christians.  if He truly believed IN Jesus - he wouldn't have killed millions.  one might say - hitler had no fear of Jesus and perhaps wished him and God dead.  but, you can't kill God - so He killed what he thought was the closest thing.  but, he wasn't successful.  because there are still jews and christians. 

i think that hitler was possessed.  i don't think he was in reality. 

have you ever read about idi- amin, too?  they were both randomly demon possessed and did not care if Jesus did or did not exist at the time.  perhaps they allowed this possession because of interest in the occult.

[thalbergmad]

Hitler was interested in the power of religion as he thought it could serve his purpose.

I have read that he stripped a lot of museums of religious relics as he thought they could be used to increase his power. I understand he obtained the "spear of destiny", but it did not appear to do him any good in the long run. Probably due to the fact that it was a fake as 99.9% of religous artifacts are.

Thal

[zheer]

i think that hitler was possessed.  i don't think he was in reality. 

  Thanks.

[jlh]

Hitler was interested in the power of religion as he thought it could serve his purpose.

I have read that he stripped a lot of museums of religious relics as he thought they could be used to increase his power. I understand he obtained the "spear of destiny", but it did not appear to do him any good in the long run. Probably due to the fact that it was a fake as 99.9% of religous artifacts are.

Thal

So only 0.01% of all religious artifacts have magical powers?  That might explain why my "ring of dexterity" is not helping me lately... 

[thalbergmad]

Only the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch has true powers.

Thal

[kiwi_bd]

Of course he did not believe in Jesus
He killed lots of Jewish people because he wanted to proof that the bible was wrong- Jewish people are not the best.

[timothy42b]

Of course he did not believe in Jesus
He killed lots of Jewish people because he wanted to proof that the bible was wrong- Jewish people are not the best.

That does not follow. 

"of course"  How about some evidence instead of saying "of course?"  Did he ever say he didn't believe in Jesus?  Was he baptized?  Did he even once speak against the Bible? 

In 2007 the majority of Christians can live comfortably next to Jewish people, but there remains a vocal minority who still believe they are evil and need to be persecuted.

Years ago this minority was a majority and the persecution was severe in many countries.  Germany is the birthplace of Martin Luther, and if you check his writings you will find they are unbelievably rabidly anti-Jewish.  Hitler followed along probably for pragmatic reasons, but you cannot claim he was not in line with a major part of Christian tradition. 

He certainly did NOT want to prove the Bible was wrong.  He believed the Bible blamed Jews for Jesus's death and indeed, though other interpretations make more sense, you can certainly find that in there. 

[prometheus]

    "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

    -- Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)


Ever heard of 'Positive Christianity'?

Hitler was an anti-smite because of the influence of Christian antisemitism. Just as Martin Luther was an anti-Semite.

So basically Hitler killed the jews because they killed Jesus.

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."-Mein Kampf

[edit]
Ah, I didn't read Timothy's reply. As you can see he says the same thing.

[counterpoint]

So basically Hitler killed the jews because they killed Jesus.

What a BS! Which of these millions of jews, who were killed in the name of Hitler, had killed Jesus? None of them!

Hitler hated the jews because he needed someone to blame for all the evil and unjustice, that's going on in the world. But Hitler himself was the most evil and unjustified person one can think of. It's so shocking, that the Germans of these days were so dull to fall for such a dumb gangster 

[prometheus]

Haha, don't project Hitler's ideas on me.

Let me rephrase for you; Hitler killed the jews because he held them accountable for the death of Jesus, following a long line of anti-semitism among some Christians.

Or even; Hitler scapegoated the jews because he held them responsible...


If the germans, the most educated people of that time, can be tricked by someone like Hitler then everybody can.

It's not Hitler that is so scary, it is that people give people like Hitler power. Or that they allow Hitler to have power.

[pianistimo]

but, prometheus,  Jesus WAS a jew.  the only reason he chased them out of the temple (and i doubt he serious hit anyone - just chased them out) was that they were buying and selling on the Sabbath.  jesus was promoting the law of God by saying - jewish customs began with God himself giving the law at sinai.  that it is eternal and the jewish people have an obligation to maintain it - even if the world forgets.  the ten commandments.  right ways of thinking and doing that follow the torah.  christianity actually came out of jewish thought - from the very disciples of Jesus who kept the law and also believed in the ressurrection.  they did not suddenly say - it's ok to break the law now that Jesus is ressurrected.  otherwise they would have not continued to meet together - as was their tradition - and discuss and write the very words of the new testament.  hebrews mentions that 'there remains a sabbath rest for the people of God.'  that means to some - resting in God every day.  to others - a specific day of rest.  I don't think God is anti-christian - but he's certainly not anti- jew either.  he died for the WORLD.

i understand about projection - because we THINK someone believes what information they repeat.  but, hitler soon started persecuting christians as much as jews.  why?  because they believed in Jesus Christ and he would have to take second place as a sort of 'god.'  hitler started believing that he was somewhat godlike.  i think he was insane at the end.  he wanted people to 'hail' him.  what does that imply?  maybe worship each and every one of his ideas?

[counterpoint]

If the germans, the most educated people of that time, can be tricked by someone like Hitler then everybody can.

Look at the Americans...  

But I would contradict in the point, that the Germans - in total - were the most educated people of that time. Great part of the educated german people were jews, and many "christians" acclaimed Hitler noisily. Most educated people of that time - if this really were true then good night humanity...

[mycrabface]

hitler?  in Jesus?  when he kills jews and christians.  if He truly believed IN Jesus - he wouldn't have killed millions.  one might say - hitler had no fear of Jesus and perhaps wished him and God dead.  but, you can't kill God - so He killed what he thought was the closest thing.  but, he wasn't successful.  because there are still jews and christians. 

i think that hitler was possessed.  i don't think he was in reality. 

have you ever read about idi- amin, too?  they were both randomly demon possessed and did not care if Jesus did or did not exist at the time.  perhaps they allowed this possession because of interest in the occult.

Hey we all belive in jesus right? Non-christians included. And look what we're doing! We're no different from hitler. Except he goes the full monty.

[prometheus]

but, prometheus,  Jesus WAS a jew.

So? The question was what Hitler thought about Jesus.

[zheer]

Hey we all belive in jesus right? Non-christians included.

  Yes.

[jakev2.0]

This thread is an abomination.

[dnephi]

This thread is just stupid.

[Kassaa]

To hijack this topic and put forward a more interesting question:

Did Hitler actually believe in the views he proposed or was he just in search of power and considered the Jews an easier target than other groups?

[prometheus]

They did not need to kill that many people just to stay in power. On the contrary. Hitler's insanity made him loose the war. He also barely survived an assassination.

Now I have never read Hitler biographies so I don't know that much about his personal motivations.

[zheer]

What a BS! Which of these millions of jews, who were killed in the name of Hitler, had killed Jesus? None of them!

dumb gangster 

  Gangster yes, his men were known to chop tongues and ears of people they did'nt like, something the Asians would do to the english many years ago, infact it still goes on.

[dnephi]

"Tungs"

That's about the best spelling I've ever seen of "Tongues."

[zheer]

:

Did Hitler actually believe in the views he proposed

  Yes he believed in the master race consisting of the Germans and the Aryan race only.

[Kassaa]

  Yes he believed in the master race consisting of the Germans and the Aryan race only.

That might have been easy talk, it's an easy way to get a society ready for warfare; make them feel superior.

[zheer]

make them feel superior.

  Basically. he had both American and British support ( Briefly )they gave him money and power, in fact had he not been a psycopath he would have the world at his fingertips.

[thalbergmad]

Let me rephrase for you; Hitler killed the jews because he held them accountable for the death of Jesus

He also held them accountable for the loss of the 1st World War, which could have been the basis for his hate.

Thal

[zheer]

He also held them accountable for the loss of the 1st World War, which could have been the basis for his hate.

Thal

  Thats true thal, he felt that the Jews sat on their ass did nothing to help the german army  win the war, people identified with him, the lack of jobs, food,medicine due to the sanction imposed by the british. He wonted to change all of that, and he did briefly.They loved him, some still do.

[thalbergmad]

Whatever one might think about Hitler, i think he was the greatest public speaker who ever lived bar none.

I don't understand a word of German, but if i watch the Nuremberg Rallies, i am totally captivated.

Slightly off topic, but nowadays, what isn't.

Thal

[mephisto]

Did Hitler actually believe in the views he proposed

I do personally not belive that he did.

[ramseytheii]

That does not follow. 

"of course"  How about some evidence instead of saying "of course?"  Did he ever say he didn't believe in Jesus?  Was he baptized?  Did he even once speak against the Bible? 

In 2007 the majority of Christians can live comfortably next to Jewish people, but there remains a vocal minority who still believe they are evil and need to be persecuted.

Years ago this minority was a majority and the persecution was severe in many countries.  Germany is the birthplace of Martin Luther, and if you check his writings you will find they are unbelievably rabidly anti-Jewish.  Hitler followed along probably for pragmatic reasons, but you cannot claim he was not in line with a major part of Christian tradition. 

He certainly did NOT want to prove the Bible was wrong.  He believed the Bible blamed Jews for Jesus's death and indeed, though other interpretations make more sense, you can certainly find that in there. 

I think this is basically right.  Hitler's reign was the culmination of a long tradition of cultural anti-Semitism, grounded in interpretations of the Gospels, that had its ups and downs, but was getting more and more intense during the previous generation of Wagner.  Coupled with modern technology, this cultural tradition produced devastating results.  This wasn't a one time thing, because if it was they never would have called it a "Final Solution."  They tried lots of things before to try and get the Jews out of Germany, I think they didn't even have voting rights until the late 19th century.  Will have to look that one up.

But I contest one point, that the majority of Christians today live comfortably among Jews.  The majority of Christians at least in Amerika, are the biggest proponents of Jewish fanaticism and radical Zionism in the world.  They do this not to secure the Jewish holy land of Israel for all generations, but to try and instigate the Apocalypse. 

Every Christian leader in Amerika (that is an Evangelical, by far the most evil form of Christianity alive today) has been caught on record saying the most offensive things about the Jews, yet promotes in public at the top of their hysterical phlegm-soaked lungs the idea of the right of the Holy Land for Jews.  Billy Graham, Jesse jackson, Jerry Falwell, Ralph Reed, they were all the most rabid anti-Semites. 

And probably for them, they see a world-shattering battle between two faiths: Judiasm and Islam; they are arming and rooting for the ones they consider the less of two evils.  They denounce Islam quite publicly, since it is still ok to do it (it should always be ok, but it should be more conspicuous from their particular perspective), but reserve their frothing anti-Semitism for private places - and fortunately get recorded and have to face up to it in public.

Walter Ramsey

[pianistimo]

in the end, it won't be evangelicals splitting jerusalem between jews and palestinians.  maybe this is not your point - but as i see the the catholic faith is more moderate in some ways and more extreme in others.  once it is parcelled - then another portion of scripture has come true.  it is God that decides timing.

the mere fact that jerusalem is still a hot-spot (as it has always been) for conflict seems to prove that what will lead up to armaggedon isn't so unreal after all.  it's completely possible and yet certainly not prayed for.  i've never heard a prayer 'bring it on.'  i'm not particularly evangelical - but i happen to know that most of their services are singing.

in terms of zionism - yes, i think there is a return of many people to the belief that Jesus will return to the mt. of olives.  some even move to jerusalem to wait and witness it.  may be a bad move if war breaks out.  but, if people survive the warfare - then they would witness it if Jesus comes in our lifetime.  noone knows the day or the hour.  also, i think there is a scripture that says 'every eye will see him.'  so wherever you are -it won't be like you have to go to jerusalem.  he is coming in the clouds.  i take it - at night (or when the sun and  moon are darkened)  - otherwise - nobody would see him.  or they wouldn't see him the same way.  (nevermind this last bit of rambling).

[arensky]

I have read that he was some sort of "neo-pagan", influenced by German-Nordic- mythology, and planned to replace Christianity with a new religion that was derived from said mythology, inspired by his idol, Wagner. This is refuted by the following excerpts from "Mein Kampf" but it was written in 1924 (?) and perhaps he changed his mind over the years or the book is a cynical campaingn pamphlet, if you will.

https://www.creationtheory.org/Essays/Hitler.shtml


Who knows what was going on in his head...

[lisztisforkids]

So? The question was what Hitler thought about Jesus.

 Hitler thought about only Hitler, not Jesus, he hated the Jews because he blamed them completely for Germany's defeat in world war I, Germanys massive economic collapse, and most basically he just considered them a inferior race in contrast to the super human Aryans. He aslo beleived insane notions that the Jews ran much of the other governments in the world. I would say more but I barley have time to think as it is now a days.

[arensky]

Look at the Americans...  

But I would contradict in the point, that the Germans - in total - were the most educated people of that time. Great part of the educated german people were jews, and many "christians" acclaimed Hitler noisily. Most educated people of that time - if this really were true then good night humanity...

Indeed. It is suprising that people as well educated as the Americans of the 1930's could repeatedly elect such a dictatorial, warmongering, corrupt and unbalanced head of state as Franklin Roosevelt. 

[counterpoint]

Indeed. It is suprising that people as well educated as the Americans of the 1930's could repeatedly elect such a dictatorial, warmongering, corrupt and unbalanced head of state as Franklin Roosevelt. 

I didn't talk about the Americans of 1930   

[wishful thinker]

Let's remember that Hitler didn't try to just eradicate Jews, but anyone who didn't meet the "perfect" Aryan profile: gays, gypsies, handicapped people, communists, etc etc.  There just happened to be more Jews around than the other "undesirables".

Did Hitler believe in Jesus? It would seem unlikely that he had the faintest notion of the teachings of Christ ........

[mycrabface]

  something the Asians would do to the english many years ago, infact it still goes on.

Because of what the english did to them many many years ago

[arensky]

I didn't talk about the Americans of 1930   

I know that. 

But think about it/him.

And Churchill, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Chiang Kai-Shek and Mao Zhedong. The early to mid 20th Century was rife with dictators, or leaders with the potential to be such.

No world leader of today commands the power and authority that any of these heads of state did. But they sure wish they did. 

[counterpoint]

No world leader of today commands the power and authority that any of these heads of state did.

I doubt that.

But perhaps, much of the power nowadays lies in the hands of big industry and bankers.

[arensky]

I doubt that.

Who? Bushie? Who else?

He'll be gone soon. And no one is with him.

Just like Putin, Ahmadinejad, Assad, Chavez and Castro. But of course the last two are together, and the other leaders may not be gone so soon.

But perhaps, much of the power nowadays lies in the hands of big industry and bankers.

As it has for centuries, and that's not likely to change anytime soon. But the nature and character of big corporations is changing, they have international and multinational influence and they increasingly parrot governmental attitudes and actions, just as governments strive to be huge profit making businesses. I have  believed for a long time that the global political and economic powers that be will evantually merge into one entity, controlling ( or certainly influencing) the course and progress of human culture, technological development resource management.

As to whether this is good or bad, I cannot say. But I think we will see this come to pass in the next 50 years, probably after a great deal of international upheavel.

Or maybe I'm wrong...

[counterpoint]

He'll be gone soon.

I hope so. But you never know. He would not be able to do what he did - without 9-11. So if there will happen again something that nobody ever thought of (ha ha) then GW's power could rise to new heights (and the constitution is only a piece of paper).

[ramseytheii]

Let's remember that Hitler didn't try to just eradicate Jews, but anyone who didn't meet the "perfect" Aryan profile: gays, gypsies, handicapped people, communists, etc etc.  There just happened to be more Jews around than the other "undesirables".

Sorry, but that's historical revisionism at its worst.  The "Final Solution" was undoubtedly about anti-Semitism.  No matter how many homosexualists, gypsies, infirm, communist or Christians he annihilated, there is no doubt that the Holocaust was first and foremost a program to rid the German culture of Semitic influence and presence.  It was the result of centuries of cultural bigotry that was apparent in a majority of the German cultural figureheads, and that was finally coming to a tee.  The reason more Jews were extinguished than all the other groups combined isn't because there "happened" to be more of them.

Walter Ramsey

[wishful thinker]

And Churchill, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Chiang Kai-Shek and Mao Zhedong. The early to mid 20th Century was rife with dictators, or leaders with the potential to be such.

So Churchill was a dictator, now?  

[pianistimo]

i don't think he was a dictator - but more of a military strategist.  but didn't he come sort of head-to-head with Stalin after Berlin/Germany fell.  the russians went in and wrote Stalin all over the walls - and would walk around like they owned the place.  then us/british soldiers were kind of like - what happened here?  i didn't realize this until i watched this pbs broadcast about the war.  war is kinda funny (excepting not for the people in it) - because everyone gets into this 'grab' mode.  art work goes to many places around the world.  you lose a piece of art or silver or gold - and who knows where it might show up in 100 years.

[zheer]

i don't think he was a dictator -

  According to Hitler he was a drunken idiot, Churchill was responsible for the mass murder of the Kurds  infact the ethnic cleansing of the Kurd are all due to Churchill.
So no not a dictator but a war criminal . ( and thats the truth). I hate to admit it but GWB is the only person man enough to get rid of Saddam .

[thalbergmad]

  So no not a dictator but a war criminal .

In wartime, what leader isn't?

Churchill was probably the greatest Englishman that ever lived. He would turn in his grave if he saw the state of his Country now.

He stopped an invasion, but the weak kneed morons that now make up our Government have allowed it to happen.

Somtimes i wonder if we would have been better off if the Germans won.

Thal

[zheer]

Somtimes i wonder if we would have been better off if the Germans won.

Thal

  Had the germans won, what is now known as the EU would have been under the Nazi (BAD IDEA) , the Nazi dont consider the Arabs as the master race, so much of the mid-east would have been under his comand. Asia would have remaind un-touched, the USA would have been very isolated. So yes for the English, Italian and the Aryan race yes it would have been a flliping  orgy of power and superiority. ( Thumbs up for stalin)

[etudes]

why did he need to believe in god when he was better than god 

[wishful thinker]

Churchill was probably the greatest Englishman that ever lived.

Here, here. He saved our nation.  But as you say, for what is not now clear 

[prometheus]

Churchill was a war criminal.

If you want to win a war you have to be a war criminal. If you loose a war you will be put on trail as one.