Honour killing.

[mcgillcomposer]

God is all about restitution and giving women a proper place in society (not to be raped in the first place).  exodus 22:16 'and if a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged, and lies with her, he must pay a dowry for her to be his wife.'

as i see it - if a woman is truly a follower of Jesus - she won't be in places that she will be easily raped (bars, etc).  that eliminates half the problem.  also, she won't be alone (her family - whether father/mother/sister/bros - or her own family - husband and children) because her family is her protection. 

the bible shows the example of the brothers of one sister who was raped getting revenge on a group.  this would put the 'fear' so to speak into anyone who would dare rape their sister or whomever!

nowdays we don't have as large of families - but i still recognize the safety in numbers.  i don't think God was picking on women/men who were chaste - but rather men/women who were seeking to eliminate chastity as a goal for women and men before marriage.  and, the seriousness of their actions. 

nowdays - without religion - no one really chases rapists.  they, in fact, blame it on the woman who attended the sorority party - or had too much to drink - or was wearing skimpy clothing.  what about the man?  did he have no control because he was drinking and that is a legal reason?  or, that secretly some women don't deserve any respect?  i don't think this is the case even in a worst-case scenario.

even if a woman dresses seductively, goes into a bar, and sits alone - leaves - and then some ax-murderer cuts her into a million pieces - that it was her fault.  young women often do stupid things.  BUT, it doesn't mean that they deserve this.  isn't there some place in the bible that mentions how God would care for a woman.  dressing her in the finest silks and linens and clothing her feet in sandals of porpoise skin - adorning her with jewelry (the intent here - is to value a woman for mind and body - and treating her so well that she would never leave).

This is quite true...it just goes to show you how contradictory the bible is...

[mcgillcomposer]

are you saying you would choose a slut over a virgin? 

... if the slut is better looking, well...

[thalbergmad]

perhaps the topic was 'honor killing' - but that is not even mentioned in the bible. 

Now, this is unusual as you seem to know for once what the topic was.

If there is no honor killing in your ridiculous book, why mention it?

My prediction of 900 words of garbage came true. I must be a prophet.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

it's really disrespectful to women to treat them equally.  they are not equal. 

Women have fought for equality for years. Now they have got it, some don't want it.

Thal

[rc]

Women have fought for equality for years. Now they have got it, some don't want it.

Thal

The whole 'equality' thing doesn't bother me too much on it's own.  I like my women more traditionally womanly for sure...  The problem I have is when girls want it both ways, to be equals but still want me to pay for everything.

Another thing with equality/unequality mindset is that it tends to create unnecessary conflict.  There are people out there who act like there's a war between the genders, placing blame, trying to one-up, and generally creating misery.

[prometheus]

Pianistimo is disrespectful to woman.

[pianistimo]

?  i am not telling women they don't deserve respect.  rather the opposite.  that noone should ever be raped.  but, they have to accept 'protection' rather than attempt to protect themselves.  does a gun really protect you like a man.  i say - take the man - ditch the gun.

[teresa_b]

but, they (women) have to accept 'protection' rather than attempt to protect themselves.  does a gun really protect you like a man.  i say - take the man - ditch the gun.

I think you would like the Taliban.  Seriously, fundamentalist Muslims do not even allow women to go out of the house without men.  No schooling, no career, nada.  Women may not drive in Saudi Arabia, and of course if they go out they must cover themselves head-to-toe in order to avoid "exciting" the men. 

If you really believe what you're saying (and I don't think you do, I think you've painted yourself into a corner) we women should somehow accept this oppression by men.  And only in some Utopia is there a devoted gentleman to cherish and protect every woman!  Frankly, I would much rather (with reasonable precautions, of course) run the risk of being harmed while living a free life than sit home imprisoned by some 6th Century tradition.

Teresa

[mephisto]

I think you would like the Taliban.  Seriously, fundamentalist Muslims do not even allow women to go out of the house without men.  No schooling, no career.

While I happen to be an atheist I must defend what you say about fundamentalist islam here. Iran, a country based purely on a strict interpretation of Islam, 65% of the students at universities are female.

[thalbergmad]

Women may not drive in Saudi Arabia

That should be introduced in the UK.

There would be far less accidents, congestion & child obesity.

Thal

[prometheus]

Pianistimo, why don't you move and live in Saudi Arabia or Iran for a while?

Then you can find out how the people of the bible lived and what your opinion on that would actually be.

[thalbergmad]

I think she likes the benefits of 21st century living, whilst still attempting to hold onto the values of her barbaric 1st Century book of nonsense.

Thal

[teresa_b]

While I happen to be an atheist I must defend what you say about fundamentalist islam here. Iran, a country based purely on a strict interpretation of Islam, 65% of the students at universities are female.

I am an atheist also (at the least agnostic), and I certainly can't speak as a scholar of Islam.  But my impression of Iran in this regard is that there are basically two factions struggling for power.  Both are Muslim, but the more moderate ones would prefer a secular government.  It is this group that has allowed women to attend universities, etc.  They have been recently led by a president whose name is escaping me, but who has been supplanted, probably illegitimately, by the nutso Amedinejhad.  All this time, since the late 70's, starting with Ayatollah Khomeini, the fundamentalist Islamists have been clamoring for a return to more traditional Islamic system--such as women's role being in the home, raising good little soldiers to go out and become martyrs.  (I'm exaggerating, but you get my gist.)  

Frankly, despite my deep sense of the rightness of "live and let live", it seems more and more difficult when the people you are "tolerating" wish to kill you.

Teresa

[prometheus]

[edit] I posted this before I saw Teresa's post and in respond to myself basically.


Well, there is a bit of a problem. People in Iran may not even be as religious as those in the US. And those that are are generally even more of a hypocrite than western monotheists.



And in Taliban-country they are just downright primitive and stupid with their tribal culture. They are even too stupid and primitive to even care about a 1000 CE religion. Muhammed is too progressive for them.


So yeah, there's not a real place she can actually go. But if she wants to experience biblical woman rights then she can.

[zheer]

Frankly, despite my deep sense of the rightness of "live and let live", it seems more and more difficult when the people you are "tolerating" wish to kill you.

Teresa

  Am a non practising sunni Muslim, The vast majority of Muslims do not wish to kill anyone. The very few who are influenced and funded by the CIA , do wish death on people living in the west or value western value.

[teresa_b]

  Am a non practising sunni Muslim, The vast majority of Muslims do not wish to kill anyone. The very few who are influenced and funded by the CIA , do wish death on people living in the west or value western value.

You know what, zheer, it makes sense that most Muslims don't want to go around killing people.  In fact, I have a good friend who is a prominent Islamic scholar, so I have heard that from her as well.   It isn't those multitudes I refer to, but the ones who are fanatical (that's what I mean in general by fundamentalist--maybe I'm not exactly correct in equating the two).  Unfortunately the fanatics seem to be the ones who are gaining the upper hand--at least they're getting the world's attention. 

Teresa

[zheer]

Unfortunately the fanatics seem to be the ones who are gaining the upper hand--at least they're getting the world's attention. 

Teresa

    True, though it's the sort of attention that 95% of muslims dis-like.I've spoken to ,one or two extreem muslims, not one of them would go as far as killing anyone. They are a lot like pianistimo . The ones that do the killing are something else, they have political objective, in-fact many muslims do not consider them to be muslims, reason why they live as out-law.

[ramseytheii]

Frankly, despite my deep sense of the rightness of "live and let live", it seems more and more difficult when the people you are "tolerating" wish to kill you.

Teresa

"Live and let live" obviously doesn't apply to those who don't wish to let you live.  Moral relativism and political correctness has poisoned the minds of many in the West, who believe that even if a culture of fanaticism arises, takes power, and takes action against us, we should just "live and let live," not worry about such things, and chalk it up to, "they're just different;" "that's just their culture;" "we shouldn't judge."  Actually, that is what happened when Salman Rushdie was condemned to death for apostasy and other crimes against the Islam faith; many in the West blamed Rushdie, shockingly and hypocritically denying the value of free speech, and condoning a culture who wants to kill a citizen of another country for writing a book.  There can be no "live and let live" in an arrangment like this.  These actions have to be condemned without qualification, and the same goes for all terrorism.  No culture can justify terror acts against another, by saying, that is our culture.

I read a fantastic and convincing essay that suggested the Western liberal's reluctance to take on the issue of religious fanaticism (especially Islamic) was a perverse kind of racism; due to politically correct poison, they didn't want to be seen as calling a group of darker-skinned people barbaric and terrorists.  I think there is much truth to that.  Religious terrorism has to be condemned no matter who commits it: darker-skinned fanatics in the Middle East, or pale, pasty battling Catholics and Protestants in Ireland, which the liberals have had no trouble at all condemning. 

Walter Ramsey

[thalbergmad]

I read a fantastic and convincing essay that suggested the Western liberal's reluctance to take on the issue of religious fanaticism (especially Islamic) was a perverse kind of racism; due to politically correct poison, they didn't want to be seen as calling a group of darker-skinned people barbaric and terrorists.  I think there is much truth to that.  Religious terrorism has to be condemned no matter who commits it: darker-skinned fanatics in the Middle East, or pale, pasty battling Catholics and Protestants in Ireland, which the liberals have had no trouble at all condemning. 

That is a great truth and the UK government is guilty of this. They are terrified of being labelled racist.

They will allow flag burning Islamic fanatics to protest in London without raising an eyebrow, but 2 elderly Catholics handing out anti-gay leaflets were arrested and questioned for 4 hours.

Welcome to England.

Thal

[ahinton]

That should be introduced in the UK.

There would be far less accidents, congestion & child obesity.

Thal

Oh, do shut up, you silly little boy!

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

That is a great truth and the UK government is guilty of this. They are terrified of being labelled racist.

They will allow flag burning Islamic fanatics to protest in London without raising an eyebrow, but 2 elderly Catholics handing out anti-gay leaflets were arrested and questioned for 4 hours.

Welcome to England.

Thal

There are now so many people leaving England that there may soon be a real risk that its indigenous Afro-Asian population may become a minority as the east European immigrants assume a majority, so we should surely all expect quite different (and constantly changing) governmental emphases over the mext few minutes, hours, days, etc.; by the same token ,all those leaving England are to some degree displacing peoples living in the countries where they are going, so we'll many of us end up living in no one's country. I assume that you are fairly strongly against most immigration into UK, but what are your thoughts about emigration therefrom? (or indeed from any other country which likewise is undergoing a substantial exodus of the non-Biblical variety)...

Best,

Alistair

[prometheus]

  Am a non practising sunni Muslim, The vast majority of Muslims do not wish to kill anyone. The very few who are influenced and funded by the CIA , do wish death on people living in the west or value western value.

Don't blame it on the west or the CIA.

There are insane religious people. And it is used for politics, yes. Often so that they hate the US or Israel more than their own pro-west dictatorship government.


Plus, there are totally a-political deluded fanatic religious people too.

[thalbergmad]

There are now so many people leaving England that there may soon be a real risk that its indigenous Afro-Asian population may become a minority as the east European immigrants assume a majority, so we should surely all expect quite different (and constantly changing) governmental emphases over the mext few minutes, hours, days, etc.; by the same token ,all those leaving England are to some degree displacing peoples living in the countries where they are going, so we'll many of us end up living in no one's country. I assume that you are fairly strongly against most immigration into UK, but what are your thoughts about emigration therefrom? (or indeed from any other country which likewise is undergoing a substantial exodus of the non-Biblical variety)...

Best,

Alistair

580,000 immigrants arrived in the UK last year (the ones we know about)
198,000 people left (the ones we know about)

I would like to become one of the ones that leave. The hoards of Eastern European pond life that have infested our shores, have changed the face of this once great Country forever, whilst the week kneed tossers who are in government do nothing.

If i was going to emigrate, i would not do it illegally and i would want to work. I would not wish to sneak into another country on the back of a lorry, ponce off the state, increase the crime rate, breed like a rabbit and spend most of my days standing at street corners drinking cheap cider whilst leering at the local girls.

I welcome all immigrants who enter legally and do the jobs which the bone idle English do not want to do.

You have got me off topic Ali baby.

Thall

[thalbergmad]

Oh, do shut up, you silly little boy!

Best,

Alistair

BOLLOX

[ahinton]

580,000 immigrants arrived in the UK last year (the ones we know about)
198,000 people left (the ones we know about)

Other statistics suggest that the number leaving is consideably higher (I'll be joining them soon).

I would like to become one of the ones that leave. The hoards of Eastern European pond life that have infested our shores, have changed the face of this once great Country forever, whilst the week kneed tossers who are in government do nothing.

These include all those, especially from Poland, who fought on the UK's side during WWII, of course; "pond life", indeed... Those who are in government are those whom we - the Asians, Poles, Aussies, Yanks and everyone else living here with an entitlement to vote (even some English, so I've heard) - have elected, so we/they all get what's deserved.

If i was going to emigrate, i would not do it illegally and i would want to work. I would not wish to sneak into another country on the back of a lorry, ponce off the state, increase the crime rate, breed like a rabbit and spend most of my days standing at street corners drinking cheap cider whilst leering at the local girls.

But you'd not need to do it illegally, would you?! You can go to any other EC country freely (there are currently 26 of them and there may eventually be at least four times that number if you hang around long enough)...

I welcome all immigrants who enter legally and do the jobs which the bone idle English do not want to do.

Yet you still call some of them "pond life"...

You have got me off topic Ali baby.

Thall

Don't you mean "Thrall"? (for all that you're not exactly doing that to me right now)...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

BOLLOX

Indeed - vital parts of you that it'll be very important that you do not leave behind when you get your one-way ticket from Stansted to wherever you decide to settle next (and I gather that you can actually still take them as hand-baggage on Ryanair)...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

These include all those, especially from Poland, who fought on the UK's side during WWII, of course; "pond life",

When i use that expression i am referring to "illegals".

I have written much in support of the Polish on this forum. Perhaps you did not see it.

Thal

[pianistimo]

i see noone followed the connection to sub-prime mortgage rates.  well, in any case - this whole thing - immigration, world finance, and nationalism resurfacing, should all go off like an IED in front of a humvee full of people returning to base.  as well as the recent sightings of russian bombers of which margaret thatcher put in place yesterday in her speech on tv.  which i can't find anywhere on the internet, btw.

ok.  as i see it - women should be as strong, as smart, and as capable as they want to be.  this is an american idea.  and yet - should we not complain when we do not commit crimes against men to the same degree as men commit crimes against us.  this is what is barbaric, honey.  i use honey as a form of sweet talk.  in fact, i think everyone should be called 'honey' once in a while.  or 'darling,' if you prefer.  as i see it - the only ones barbaric in east,west, north, south are men.  do you see islamic women pushing the buttons for IED's?  they only bomb something when they are told - 'go do it, or we'll kill you now on the spot.' 

i have a tremendous amount of love and faith in women around the globe.  however, it does not go so far as to vote for hillary clinton.  whom, i'm sure is running on that never ending cycle of women who don't want to use their husband's name as their last name.  as i see it - this is societal breakdown.  to say - what makes a woman a woman is no longer there.  to have women and men running around like each one is in charge.  may as well move to mexico and get your head blown off for just being an american.  that is what the competition between men and women has come to.  men kill women so they have more job opportunities probably. 

yes. utopia is probably what i feel would likely give children less of a latchkey home to come home to.  and btw, i think teachers are nice - but they are NOT parents.  SO QUIT ACTING LIKE YOU OWN OUR CHILDREN.  you don't. you never will.  they are not state brainwaishing facilities but public schools that WE PAY FOR.  and we will say what WE ALLOW.  and BTW  LIBERTY IS ALIVE AND WELL.  women can work.  women can stay home.  women can do a lot of things.  but, don't have a child and then say 'he/she isn't my problem.'  that's where delinquent children come into play.  i should know.  i've done it both ways.  careered myself for 2 years and ignored the homefires.  and, also, been home 24/7.  do you know which way works the best?  being home.  that's all i have to say.  rant over.

[thalbergmad]

You can go to any other EC country freely (there are currently 26 of them and there may eventually be at least four times that number if you hang around long enough)...

Indeed, but you cannot enter freely into Australia. I would not want to go to another EC Country.

Australia has an excellent immigration system in order to keep out undesirables.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

i see noone followed the connection to sub-prime mortgage rates.  well, in any case - this whole thing - immigration, world finance, and nationalism resurfacing, should all go off like an IED in front of a humvee full of people returning to base.  as well as the recent sightings of russian bombers of which margaret thatcher put in place yesterday in her speech on tv.  which i can't find anywhere on the internet, btw.

that's all i have to say.  rant over.

I am unable to translate the above horsecrap. I can only assume that it is in code, so i have sent it to the curator at Bletchley Park.

"thats all i have to say"................... if only.

Thal

[ahinton]

When i use that expression i am referring to "illegals".

I have written much in support of the Polish on this forum. Perhaps you did not see it.

Thal

I did, actually - which is why what you wrote here slightly surprised me. Anyway, soon French will be replaced by Polish as the primary foreign language to be taught in schools, so how our indigenous Afro-Asian population will cope with that will remain to be seen at least until such time as they emigrate elsewhere, one may suppose.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

so how our indigenous Afro-Asian population will cope with that will remain to be seen at least until such time as they emigrate elsewhere, one may suppose.

In parts of Essex, some have been joining the BNP.

Thal

[ahinton]

i see noone followed the connection to sub-prime mortgage rates.  well, in any case - this whole thing - immigration, world finance, and nationalism resurfacing, should all go off like an IED in front of a humvee full of people returning to base.  as well as the recent sightings of russian bombers of which margaret thatcher put in place yesterday in her speech on tv.  which i can't find anywhere on the internet, btw.

Frankly, so what? The sub-prime problem (which has surfaced in but is by no means confined to) your US is merely the tip of the borrowing iceberg - almsot every individual, corporation and nation is indebted way beyond its capabilities to repay.

ok.  as i see it - women should be as strong, as smart, and as capable as they want to be.  this is an american idea.  and yet - should we not complain when we do not commit crimes against men to the same degree as men commit crimes against us.  this is what is barbaric, honey.  i use honey as a form of sweet talk.  in fact, i think everyone should be called 'honey' once in a while.  or 'darling,' if you prefer.  as i see it - the only ones barbaric in east,west, north, south are men.  do you see islamic women pushing the buttons for IED's?  they only bomb something when they are told - 'go do it, or we'll kill you now on the spot.'

What exactly does this have to do either with the subject or with your own sub-prime issue?

i have a tremendous amount of love and faith in women around the globe.  however, it does not go so far as to vote for hillary clinton.  whom, i'm sure is running on that never ending cycle of women who don't want to use their husband's name as their last name.  as i see it - this is societal breakdown.  to say - what makes a woman a woman is no longer there.  to have women and men running around like each one is in charge.  may as well move to mexico and get your head blown off for just being an american.  that is what the competition between men and women has come to.  men kill women so they have more job opportunities probably. 

Thanks for letting me know this last bit; now I know at lasst why it is that I've never either wanted nor had a "job" - I've simply never harboured a desire to kill a woman. What would I do without your fount of wisdom, Susan?...

yes. utopia is probably what i feel would likely give children less of a latchkey home to come home to.  and btw, i think teachers are nice - but they are NOT parents.  SO QUIT ACTING LIKE YOU OWN OUR CHILDREN.  you don't. you never will.  they are not state brainwaishing facilities but public schools that WE PAY FOR.  and we will say what WE ALLOW.  and BTW  LIBERTY IS ALIVE AND WELL.  women can work.  women can stay home.  women can do a lot of things.  but, don't have a child and then say 'he/she isn't my problem.'  that's where delinquent children come into play.  i should know.  i've done it both ways.  careered myself for 2 years and ignored the homefires.  and, also, been home 24/7.  do you know which way works the best?  being home.  that's all i have to say.  rant over.

And some rant, too - in it, you used no less than 75 capital letters. Serious stuff, obviously - on-topic or otherwise (well, it's all otherwise, of course, but at least while we all reel from the shock of your capital punishment we can appreciate your time-dishonoured consistency in the off-topic department)...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

In parts of Essex, some have been joining the BNP.

Thal

And elsewhere in these islands, too (albeit in fairly small numbers) - but Gravesend is not, as I have observed before (to those who might not otherwise know) is in Kent, not Essex - and wouldn't you rather in any case forget the ide of joining BNP and instead go to Essex (wherein Stansted is, as you know, located) to take your flight out of UK?

Best,

Alistair

[ronde_des_sylphes]

These include all those, especially from Poland, who fought on the UK's side during WWII, of course; "pond life", indeed... Those who are in government are those whom we - the Asians, Poles, Aussies, Yanks and everyone else living here with an entitlement to vote (even some English, so I've heard) - have elected, so we/they all get what's deserved.

Completely specious reasoning, I'm afraid.

a) A lot of people who DID vote for Labour (I am not one of them) assuredly do not want many of these policies on immigration (and many other policies, for that matter); they have simply voted for them out of force of habit, or because they don't want a Conservative government.

b) A very significant percentage of the electorate did not vote for anyone at all - and it is my strong suspicion that, many of them did not vote due to not considering any of the parties on offer to be worth voting for.

I don't think anyone in this country (irrespective of who they voted for) deserves the limp-wristed sad excuse for a government we have; afraid to tackle social issues pertaining to immigrants for fear of appearing racist, unable or unwilling to deport murderers to their country of birth for fear of infringing their "human rights", but perfectly happy to jail pensioners for non-payment of council tax (despite jails being so over-crowded that CONVICTED paedophiles have in some cases been excused prison sentences). It is simply disgusting.

[mephisto]

No culture can justify terror acts against another, by saying, that is our culture.

What is your defination of terror? As far as I know almost every occupier have called those occupied a terrorist. Regardless if that is France in Lebanon, Nazi Germany in France or France in Algerie. Always those fighting to liberathe themselv from a harsh occupying force are called terrorist. In Norway we have a few heroes from the 2nd World War that almost everyone in Norway have heard of. These people were called terrorists by the Nazis, yet everybody in Norway consider them heroes and freedom-fighters.

[thalbergmad]

true, one mans terrorist is another mans hero.

Thal

[prometheus]

Terrorist and freedom fighter often overlap. If you are a freedom fighter then better use terrorism.


But that doesn't mean you need to attack civilian targets with the goal to kill as many woman and children as possible.



Problem with freedom fighters is that they either have no army or it is already defeated. So they can't meet the enemy head on. So what you get then is asymmetrically warfare.

Still, even attacking the enemy's soldiers with civilians can be very difficult. They will protect themselves. So better hit at their weak spots.

You don't have the power to kill all their soldiers and to destroy all their weapons.

So what you do then is use force to gain a political goal. You want to force your opponent to withdraw, to get a better negotiation position, create a schism within your enemy, etc.

You want to defeat them not by killing all their troops, but by making them give up and withdraw. Or you use violence to gain your political goal.


Now, you can still do this by attacking military targets, or by damaging infrastructure, etc. But in that case the actual damage done is kind of 'collateral damage' because you are merely attacking your real target, a political institution, indirectly by damaging a physical object.


And actually the strong side uses this tactic more often than the weak side.



When politicians use the word 'terrorism' they often mean 'violence against us and our allies'.



And yes, the terrorists that fought the nazi's did kill innocent civilians. Sometimes their own people.


Plus of course the fire bombing of Dresden and Tokyo but also the V-1 & V-2 attacks on London. Pure terrorism.



But I don't believe acts of 9/11 are political. Those people are just deluded people that take religious too seriously. At least not for the people that executed the attack. Arranging for other people to do so of course does work.

And Osama Bin Laden achieved all his goals.

[zheer]

Problem with freedom fighters is that they either have no army or it is already defeated. So they can't meet the enemy head on. So what you get then is asymmetrically warfare.

 

    Yes you are right.

[ahinton]

Osama Bin Laden achieved all his goals.

Your writing of this in the past tense seems suggestive of the idea that he's done and finished with his work, having succeeded therein. Do you really believe any of that?

Best,

Alistair

[mephisto]

And Osama Bin Laden achieved all his goals.

How do you know that he did it? I know that he has defended 9/11/01 but has he admited that he arranged them?

[jlh]

How do you know that he did it? I know that he has defended 9/11/01 but has he admited that he arranged them?

Yes...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/11/11/wbin11.xml
(I just recently found this too... draw your own conclusions.  Perhaps someone else has more documents or video?https://www.awitness.org/news/december_2001/bin_laden_confession_tape_fraud.html)


These are actual videos with no reporter to screw it up:

&NR=1

[mephisto]

Thanks for the links.

Will study them closely. Btw for the record I don't belive in the conspiracies about 9/11 being an inside job or anything.

[prometheus]

I always found that confession video to be very suspicious.


But there is little doubt that those that carried out the 9/11 attack were inspired by OBL's ideas.


Plus, it doesn't really matter if he was behind it or not. We act like he did. And then we gave him what he wanted. Which is probably not such a bad thing, anyway.


Ooh, and OBL did deny having anything to do with it in one of his public videos.