I got a quick question since im self taught..

[simon73]

I have been playing piano on and off for the past few years... and have been to lesson when i was 6 but didnt finish grade 1.. and now i can play Chopin Etude (Op. 10 No.5), which took me 3 days to learnt, practicing 2-3hours a day...

may i ask what grade am i at if i can play that, and did it take me too long to learn that piece and too advance for my level? should i stop if it is? 

[counterpoint]

Interesting 

[simon73]

interestng?

[wotgoplunk]

How long before you're going to attempt Fantasie-impromptu?

 




(BEST. THREAD. EVER.)

[leahcim]

may i ask what grade am i at if i can play that

Play it in the exam and they'll tell you.

[amelialw]

why dont you post a recording of yourself playing chopin etude op.10 No.5

we can't tell what lv you are just based on the fact that you said that you have learnt the etude, it's how well you have learnt it

[simon73]

How long before you're going to attempt Fantasie-impromptu?

Is that hard? lol

why dont you post a recording of yourself playing chopin etude op.10 No.5

we can't tell what lv you are just based on the fact that you said that you have learnt the etude, it's how well you have learnt it

I will try and find something to record it with and ill post it up. Maybe audacity. I play a digital piano Korg SP200. and the etude i play is also all in natural key not just Gb black keys.

i am actually very surprised at the learning speed myself, very strange.. (i dont want to sound like i bragging or anything) just want to know if its normal or abnormal.

[amelialw]

well, as I said, we can't answer your question till you post a recording.

you said that you play that etude on white keys?

[wotgoplunk]

Is that hard? lol

Don't worry, it's a PS thing 

[simon73]

yeah from Gb to G major, i will put up a recording soon if i can.. this is probably the hardest piece i can play..

[wotgoplunk]

yeah from Gb to G major, i will put up a recording soon if i can.. this is probably the hardest piece i can play..

I'd rather hear a beautiful grade 2 piece than a butchered grade 8 one...

[simon73]

here is the record..

https://www.mediafire.com/?9bft9cjwnut

[wotgoplunk]

here is the record..

https://www.mediafire.com/?9bft9cjwnut

Why did you modulate from Gb major to G in the middle of the piece?

Next, that's not the full piece, there's a lot more.

And it needs to be MUCH faster.


I would stick with easier pieces...Chopin etudes will come later. And a teacher is a good investment. 

[amelialw]

it sounds really strange, did you make up your own version? it really spoils the piece changing the key like that and doing the glissando, sorry but that's the truth. you can't say that you have learnt a piece if you change it

yes, the actual piece is much much faster, i'm learning it myself so...

honestly, I would stick with easier pieces if I were you...wait and don't rush into chopin's etudes

[mcgillcomposer]

That's your keyboard playing - not you. Would you like me to stroke your ego for you?

You are such a mervelous pianist...OMG! I have never heard such an astonishing performance from someone who has only studied for such a short time. You need to find someone who can guide you and your incredible gift...it's like those kids who can ride a bike without holding on...

"Look mom, no hands!"

...two for the price of one

[simon73]

ok maybe miscommunication there sorry about that, i just want to know what level i am at if i could play something like that, and so then i could find a teacher. i dont want to start from grade 1, because i know all the basics theory, notes etc. i dont want to sound like a :genius" who can play something like that through no guidance or anything.. i been trying to learn piano myself by playing everyday and practicing, so i picked up this piece i found and try playing it and i could to my amazement.

Finding a teacher in NZ is really hard, due to the small population and ridiculous expensive, so i dont want to just find some piano player who cannot teach. which i could say as wasting my time if i can just teach myself some basics.

so please help me and give me some suggestion or advice instead of mocking me or anything. Im sure this is a nice community not a "HAHAHA I CAN PLAY PIANO AND YOU CANT NOOB, GO GET A FRICKING TEACHER!" that will just put me of playing piano. Encourage please, not discourage.. and i truly appreciate any form of advice as long it doesnt destroy my dream of wanting to become a good pianist.

thank you

[pianochick93]

I would say that the best thing to do would be to find a teacher, and ask him/her to evaluate your grade and give you pieces suited to your level.

[simon73]

Thanks piano chick, i was considering doing that when i get in to University next year.

[pianochick93]

If I were you I would do it before I got to university. Say, if you were studying music, and had to do performances, he/she may be able to help you better choose pieces and start you learning them sooner.

[simon73]

financial issues... lol

[pianochick93]

Fair enough, in that case, do your best with what you've got.

You may be able to find a friend of a friend or something who is prepared to give you a discount.

[wotgoplunk]

ok maybe miscommunication there sorry about that, i just want to know what level i am at if i could play something like that, and so then i could find a teacher. i dont want to start from grade 1, because i know all the basics theory, notes etc. i dont want to sound like a :genius" who can play something like that through no guidance or anything.. i been trying to learn piano myself by playing everyday and practising, so i picked up this piece i found and try playing it and i could to my amazement.

If you could play that you'd be above the grades. But as I said, it's not the full piece, it's not at speed, and you made up your own modulations.

And as such, you haven't played it.

I will say, I myself can't play the piece. But I have definitely heard enough recordings and had enough experience to know.

It takes more than hitting the notes to be able to play a piece...

[gyzzzmo]

Learn yourself some piece wich you can really finish, not just the notes but everything. Then find some teacher, play it for him/her and ask for her opinion, and try getting some lessons

Btw, dont blame us for mocking you. Posting something what isnt yours is like the stupiest thing somebody could do on a serious forum like Pianostreet. We'll know if something is fake or not But i gues that was your first lesson you got from pianostreet lol :p

gl finding a good teacher,

gyzzzmo

[simon73]

Btw, dont blame us for mocking you. Posting something what isnt yours is like the stupiest thing somebody could do on a serious forum like Pianostreet. We'll know if something is fake or not But i gues that was your first lesson you got from pianostreet lol :p

gl finding a good teacher,

sory my english isnt that good, so it is kind of my fault for this misunderstanding, but anyway i admit that piece of recording isnt my own playing, that is because i cant find a way to record myself but to get a recording of what i could play. and i asked what grade i would be if i could play that? and maybe i shouldnt have said i can play "Etude opus 10 no 5", instead something like the recording i posted up..

anyway, thanks for all the advice, will try something simpler and try to find a good teacher, right now i need to continue my uni entrance study and get in before finding a teacher. ^^ untill then, 1 day when i can "ACTUALLY" play the etude, ill post a original recording.. hehe maybe in 20 years..

[wotgoplunk]

I'm confused 

[danny elfboy]

What grades are good for?
I think they're totally meaningless and you'll understand why this is true if you take a look at the different scoring systems in different countries.
It's not like they're slightly different; there's not correspondance at all.

What I can say is that playing the piano is not just a matter of studying one hard piece and being able to play the note just like gymnastic is not about making splits.

Even a beginner can with some trying learn to make splits but this doesn't make him a gymnast.

In the same way being a pianist is a not about playing specific pieces but having absorbed different techniques and information as second nature so that you can understand whatever piece is put in front of you and being able to understand how to perform it with control, ease and poetry.

You need to think of "where you are as a pianist" as the sum of your merging with the globality of pianism and music and not as "I can't play piece X, can I play piece Y?"

[pianowolfi]

sory my english isnt that good, so it is kind of my fault for this misunderstanding, but anyway i admit that piece of recording isnt my own playing, that is because i cant find a way to record myself but to get a recording of what i could play. and i asked what grade i would be if i could play that? and maybe i shouldnt have said i can play "Etude opus 10 no 5", instead something like the recording i posted up..

anyway, thanks for all the advice, will try something simpler and try to find a good teacher, right now i need to continue my uni entrance study and get in before finding a teacher. ^^ untill then, 1 day when i can "ACTUALLY" play the etude, ill post a original recording.. hehe maybe in 20 years..

Rofl I think I found the source of this rec

Reminds me of that joke: A lady rings the door bell of a famous conducter. He opens the door. The Lady says: "Please, maestro, my son is so gifted, he can play the piano so well, you must listen to him!"  The conductor turns her down. But the lady insists "Please listen to my son. He really plays like Horowitz!!!! Please you MUST listen to him. Here, I've got a CD!" After a while the conductor lets her in and they listen to the CD. the Maestro after a while:"Wow, this is actually incredible!! That sounds like HOROWITZ!!!"

"Yes" says the lady. "This IS Horowitz. And that's how my son sounds like!!!"

[simon73]

yes well done that is what i have been trying to play.. lol and great joke!! ^^ i actually like that joke.. hahaha nice one..

yeah, that guy is Jay Chou,

Far out, i seriously learnt heaps from all you people, didnt know being a pianist requires so much things, not just being able to play a few piece.. Hmmm. definately finding a teacher and sharpen that.. 

[gyzzzmo]

About those chopin etudes Simon: The biggest mistake of somebody with your lvl is to try to play them as you hear them on a record. You should only use the etudes as Etudes (as long as you cant technically master them). So slow practise, play them only as fast as the speed at wich you dont make mistakes.

!!!! Self teaching is alot about recognising your own flaws and thinking about how you can fix your flaws.!!!!
For example, one of your current most important flaws are probably your left hand in general, and the 4th and 5th finger of your right hand. For that last 'flaw' you got start practising etude op10 no2 (SLOWLY). You could train your left hand with etudes like op10 no12. But again, only practise them as written above.

gl selfteaching or finding a teacher

gyzzzmo

[counterpoint]

here is the record..

https://www.mediafire.com/?9bft9cjwnut

It is a midifile. It was easy to import it in a music notation program and it gives an exact representation of the notated rhythm. This is not how human beings play.

[prongated]

Finding a teacher in NZ is really hard, due to the small population and ridiculous expensive, so i dont want to just find some piano player who cannot teach. which i could say as wasting my time if i can just teach myself some basics.

Whereabouts in NZ are you? What about learning from current students at music conservatories there? I know there are some good pupils of Rae De Lisle for example...I'm sure they won't charge you as much?

[nightmusicforest]

fantasie impromptu is grade arct performer. AKA its hard. i been playing since i was 4 years old, and now im 12, and i'm finally playing fantasie impromptu

 

[wotgoplunk]

And that contributes...how?

Chuck Norris played the Fantasie-Impromptu when he was 2.

Pwned!

[simon73]

Whereabouts in NZ are you? What about learning from current students at music conservatories there? I know there are some good pupils of Rae De Lisle for example...I'm sure they won't charge you as much?

Im in the Auckland area. You in Nz too?

It is a midifile. It was easy to import it in a music notation program and it gives an exact representation of the notated rhythm. This is not how human beings play

I know that, its definately not me playing.. i saud before that i couldnt find a way to record myself so i grabed a recording of what i could play.. and if you want to see a human play, go to that youtube link that was posted up. ^^

[counterpoint]

I know that, its definately not me playing.. i saud before that i couldnt find a way to record myself so i grabed a recording of what i could play.. ^

If you know that you didn't play it yourself - good for you 

But why did you upload that thing? Do you think, we do not know Chopin Etude No. 5?

[wotgoplunk]

We asked you to post a recoding so we could evaluate you...so if you knew we would know it wasn't your playing...why did you post it?

We need to hear YOU play.

Use Audacity.

[simon73]

i posted that because it is not the whole etude, but some improvised thing.. and after getting so many mocks on that recording i think ill pass on putting up a recording of me playing that

Ill just stick with "mary had a little lamb".. and some other piece of "pop" pieces.. ^^

[wotgoplunk]

i posted that because it is not the whole etude, but some improvised thing.. and after getting so many mocks on that recording i think ill pass on putting up a recording of me playing that

Ill just stick with "mary had a little lamb".. and some other piece of "pop" pieces.. ^^

If you can play it, we'd like to hear it. 

But we don't want to hear simplified, improvised versions.

No need to stick to that sort stuff, there are plenty of great easier pieces.  You will work up to Chopin etudes, and you will get much more out of them later.

[simon73]

But we don't want to hear simplified, improvised versions.

since that is the case then, then there is no point then.. i didnt do lessons as i said tin the first post, so i havent really played any other classical stuff, so why dont you help me and give me some "EASIER" piece for me to try out.. would really appreciate it.

[wotgoplunk]

since that is the case then, then there is no point then.. i didnt do lessons as i said tin the first post, so i havent really played any other classical stuff, so why dont you help me and give me some "EASIER" piece for me to try out.. would really appreciate it.

Depends what you like.

If you like Baroque, Bach Inventions are probably a good start.
Classical, I believe Clementi has some good Sonatinas.
Romantic and 20th Century, there is such a wide range of music, it's tricky to pick just a few.

My advice is to go to your local music store, look through the graded books, and find one you think is at your level. If possible, give a piece a try in the store, if it's sightreadable, it's probably too easy. If you can't make it reasonably through the first few lines, it's likely too tricky.

[danny elfboy]

since that is the case then, then there is no point then.. i didnt do lessons as i said tin the first post, so i havent really played any other classical stuff, so why dont you help me and give me some "EASIER" piece for me to try out.. would really appreciate it.

Do you really have a good foundation?
As you know houses without foundations collapse and the same happen with skills.

What you need to build a foundation is a baby step approach.
Let's say you're following whatever program to build a skill and you're strafen with information ... DO THIS, and DO THAT, and also THIS, and THAT too, and don't forget THIS

It is really just too things at the same time to focus on.
So what you really do is breaking it all up into steps.

Then you just focus on STEP 1
When STEP 1 after weeks or months (depends on you) is like SECOND NATURE to you and you achieve it without too much thinking and mistakes, you move to STEP 2

When STEP 1 and STEP 2 have become secondo nature, you move on to STEP 3

This is in my opinion, the only way to build a foundation, because at each time you've just one STEP to focus on and are not overwhelmed by other things that distract you.
If you don't build a foundation in STEPS you end up overloading your focus, and the result is that you're poorly focused on many things, rather than being fully focused on just one thing.

What these steps are?
In my opinion the FIRST STEP is learning the so called C position.
You thumb is resting on the C key and your pinky is resting on the G key, both for righ hand and left hand. This step is important because it allow you to focus on the most economical and efficient way to move your fingers/hands/arms without being distracted by the hand changing position and by musical complexity.

So for a couple of weeks (or at least what it takes to make this step second nature) you would just work on pieces that are musically simple (or even unmusical) and take advantage of just one position of the hand.

The SECOND STEP
is to work on just rhythm, and therefore how to use your fingers/hand/arms/ to play efficiently and economically groups of notes. First groups of 1 note, then of 2 notes, then of 3 notes, then of 4 notes, the of 5 notes and of 6 notes. Another step which may take a week or more to become second nature.

What you're doing at this point is making the most efficient and economical motions required to play instinctive, so that when you will switch to complex music, you'll be able to focus on the musical and interpretative aspects, without being distracted by the problems derived from lacking such a foundation

The THIRD STEP ,now that efficient and economical melodic and rhythmical motions are like second nature and instinctive to you, is to train the change of hand position.
So how to move efficiently from the simplest C position to more complex positions, including those on the black keys while still maintaining control, ease and relaxation.

The FOURTH STEP would be to practice the passing under/over of the thumb, and the best way is to practice scales while applying everything you've learned from the previous steps. If you see that while practicing scales you're still being distracted by the problems you dealt with in the previous steps, then you've not assimilated them well enough and you should go back to the step that you didn't really mastered completely

The FIFTH STEP would be to maintain the simplests changes of hand position, the simplest rhythmic structures, the simplests melodies and musical elements, while adding SPEED to the equation. On step five all of the other steps have already become second nature to you and you accomplish them without thinking, just instinctively, and so you have the privilege of just focusing on speed, without other elements distracting you.

The SIXTH STEP if when you finally focus on musical elements, without being distracted by the other basic technical elements. At this point you can try the simplest yet musical interpretative pieces like small preludes, sonatinas, rondos, albums for the young and such.

While this work may seem tedious it is just what it takes to build a foundation.
Once you have your foundation you can build your "house" without problems and start a gradual process of moving from musically simplest pieces to musically complex pieces, without being distracted by what should be nothing but INSTINCTIVE BASIS that you build and use automatically, without thinking ... so you can think about the music.

[simon73]

All those steps confuse me.. but sounds very interesting..

i have no problem with the foundations, with the fingers etc.. except i havent really been playing any scales, arrpegios, etc.. the only scales ive done are C, D, A, B, E, G. and they all are so easy.. and i find it really boring and ineffective. i have a scale book, thinking of probably getting HANON but after reading post on them, it kind of change my mind.. what do you recommend?

[wotgoplunk]

Do some flat scales, they're the interesting ones.

And vary the scales.

Too boring?

Try 4 octaves.
Parallel motion.
Playing it staccato.
Separated by a third.
In thirds.
Swing rhythm.
All of the above, even!

[simon73]

Do some flat scales, they're the interesting ones.

And vary the scales.

Too boring?

Try 4 octaves.
Parallel motion.
Playing it staccato.
Separated by a third.
In thirds.
Swing rhythm.
All of the above, even!

WOW!! ok, definately need a teacher, there is no way i willbe able to do those perfectly or in a correct manner without any guidance or correction.. damn.. for some reason i find parallel motion easier than the other one... (cant remember name of it) the opposite direction one.

[danny elfboy]

All those steps confuse me.. but sounds very interesting..

i have no problem with the foundations, with the fingers etc.. except i havent really been playing any scales, arrpegios, etc.. the only scales ive done are C, D, A, B, E, G. and they all are so easy.. and i find it really boring and ineffective. i have a scale book, thinking of probably getting HANON but after reading post on them, it kind of change my mind.. what do you recommend?

I say "accept the boredom"
I'm a free spirit by nature and I believe in passion over duty, emotion over cold reason and certainly in making everything as funny and pleasant as possible.
Nevertheless even someone like me consider the boredom "foundation" necessary.

If you train for tennis the foundation will be lot of stroke in the air before playing any serious match.

If you train for weight lifting the foundation will be lot of imaginary motions in front of the mirror before even picking up a dumbbells.

If you train for weight lifting the foundation will be lot of random motions of the bar before even attempting an adagio with interesting music.

If you train for karate the foundation will be lot of repetitive imaginary motions which have nothing to do with fighting, before ever competing in a match.

These foundation are boring and you can see the student complaining "when will we switch to real tennis, real pumping iron, real kicking asses, real music ?!?" ... but even someone like me recognize this earlier process absolutely necessary (especially for someone self-taught) and if you haven't consciously spent a good amont of time in each baby step in isolation you can really say to have mastered them just because those things were in your pieces.

I still would not be so certain that you no problem with the foundation?
The real question is: how did you build your foundation? what you actively did to build it?

[simon73]

The real question is: how did you build your foundation? what you actively did to build it?

does it count it as playing the piano every day, for almost 2 years, and playing scales, doing finger excercise, and piece you learnt over and over again?

[danny elfboy]

does it count it as playing the piano every day, for almost 2 years, and playing scales, doing finger excercise, and piece you learnt over and over again?

Not necessarily.
There are a lot of piano methods which (in order the solve technique and interpretative problems) requires that even professional pianist with a strong career go back to basic 5 fingers C to G exercises in order to build a foundation that they never actively and consciously built.

Playing the piano, doing fingers exercise and pieces and scales is not the same as building a baby-steps foundations to make the basis automatic and leave you free to think of the musical aspects or other more complex problems without the hindrance of basic problems that should already be second nature and never bother you again.

In the same way being a good fighter doesn't count as the foundation of karate made of no fights and lot of imaginary motions, and being a good dancer doesn't count has the foundation of arms and legs motions at the bar, and being strong doesn't count as the foundation of "proper form" in the gym obtained by practicing correct motions without weight even before attemptin to lift anything.

[simon73]

Oh ok, i see.. far out where do you come up with all those examples.. they make things more clear.. hehe

so you're saying i should get into those "baby-step" methods for foundation building? the ones you listed

[danny elfboy]

so you're saying i should get into those "baby-step" methods for foundation building? the ones you listed

Yes, that's my opinion.
Build a baby-steps foundation and don't move to the next step (bear the boredome it won't take much) until you've completely mastered one step. You may find out that certain steps you can master in few days and others may take a weeks. Those are indeed the aspect of playing the piano that were holding you back and preventing your progresses.

Let me repeat that there have been many professional pianists and teachers that needed to do this very same thing, go back and build the foundation that they never build before.

Especially for a self-taught student a foundation like that is required to prevent bad habits, caused by focusing on too many things at the same times and not noticing mistakes and/or tension and non-economical motions.

Once you've a foundation you can music more on the music and on the global holistic nature of making music without the hindrance of not solid and automatic enough basis.

[simon73]

well i will give those 6 steps thing a go and see how well i improve in months, and whether it is effective or not.. it may work for some, but not all.. is that how you learnt your foundations?