Stds who move alot

[green]

Went to Yamaha's yearly runners up competition last week in my town. Wondered if it is the teachers who encourage exessive swaying "I am feelin the music" like motions, or just the stds habit.

Regardless, the ones who 'did' it, were IMO, lousy performers. Not that they didn't play well, or that they may have been in possession of great talent, my point is, that I really wondered what would happen if they just sat still and played the piece. What 'springs' might awaken? Or not?

What do u say to stds who have such habits?

I have one std who has aspergers, 10 years old, he has alot of motion, but it stems from the center of his body, I mean like subtle 'waves' that come up from the pelvis, through the shoulders, sometime moving the neck out, and even sticking out his tongue. I joke with him about the tongue, but I really wonder if his movements are 'bad' or not (at that age). I let it go as he seems not to be conscious of it. May it helps him?

Just was watching Michelangeli, Lugano concert, then thinking of these stds flailing around. Uchida, the Japanese, she moves alot, I can't stand watching her. However, I like watching Gould. Richter was like a statue, but the sound!

One fellow from the Yamaha competition walked out, as I was despairing, and sat their like a rock. Played a great fantasie impromptu. Very 'centered' is how I would have described him. He was then followed by another 'rock', who had a memory lapse and totally lost it. I wanted to know how these stds learned their music, and what advice their teachers gave them. I wanted to know why this happened. Some were good, some ok, some terrible.

Where is this coming from, why, and how is it contributing or detracting from the 'quality' of a performance. Naturally, the variables that contribute to a 'quality' performance r inumerable, what do u discuss with stds who move alot, or, conversely, don't move at all?

[green]

I went to see an up and coming pianist tonight, 14 years old. Coming out of the yamaha tradition of 'whirling' around in circles while playing. I also went to the yamaha big festival few weeks ago, same stuff. Everyone 'whirls' around. Makes u sea sick.

Now watch Richter. Watch Michelangeli. Watch Rubenstein. Horowitz. (Don't watch Gould). They sit there like a spinx.

Now there was 1 guy in the yamaha festival who didn't wirl around, IMO he was the best. Just a minor point, but generally, I seriously question the necessity of such movements. Not right or wrong, I'm just very suspicious of them. Gould was a genius, so he can do what he wants.

From my own experience, u become centered, movements become minimized, the body reacts this way to increased efficientcy. Not by moving around more! Thats what I mean by all this whirling around being suspect. Students pick it up as somehow being 'the way' that musicians are. It become a habit. Part of the way they play. So it 'seems' natural, and becomes well coordinated to their playing habits.

What do u do with stds who move around while playing?

[green]

All other emotions only distract and lower the quality of the performance.

The notion that the performer has to go through different feelings when playing is a layman's superstition.

This was by Monk from another post.

This 'display' of extraneous movements that I'm talking about, and there questionable necessity, or lack of, is similar to what monk says above. I hate watching Uchida, the japanese pianist, makes me feel sick. I don't come to watch the performer going through motions that resemble giving birth. They become habits that stds pick up as somehow being a 'part' of performing.

I would rephrase monk as: The notion that the performer has to go through different 'motions' when playing is a pedestrian 'misconception'. U don't see Richter Wirling around like a tornado, Michaelangeli? The movements reinforce the performers sense of center with  exquisite refinment, the smallest gestures are connected with the full body.

[bernhard]

You seem to be having a nice conversation with yourself! So I decided to step in.

I agree with you and with Monk.

The idea that the pianist should show to the audience the emotions the music is supposed to portray through his body movement is laughable. I for one have little patience with pianists looking to the ceiling when the music goes lyrical, or something I see a lot in women pianists (but never in men) which is to move their elbows up and down as if flapping wings, as their fingers press the keys. Needless to say these movements are completely unnecessary for the purpose of sound production and should be avoided. Besides it makes the pianist look really silly.

Unfortunately as you said there is always people who think this is great and start imitating such idiossincratic gestures in the belief that this is what a “real” pianist does (some actually do…).

I had an adult student who would go into a frenzy of tapping his foot in the floor and bobbing up and down in the bench any time he started playing some rhythmically marked music (e.g. some Polka or tarantella). The hilarious thing was that all his foot tapping and bobbing up and down was completely out of time with what he was actually playing. Yet he was convinced that he really “looked the part”.

So what did I do? I videoed him playing, and mercilessly showed the video to him. This sorted him out pretty fast.

Needless to say there are many movements that are essential to playing, and certain pieces require huge movements of the whole body. I have no qualms with that. And usually it is pretty straightforward to decide if a movement is an artificial affectation or a necessary use of the body to produce a superlative sound. (For instance, Glenn Gould’s and Claudio Arrau’s habit of doing vibratos on the keys. You would imagine that they should know better. Did they actually believe they were playing a violin or a cello?)

Personally I rarely have this problem unless I get a student who came from another teacher who encouraged such behaviour.

I hope this helps.
Best wishes,
Bernhard

[Saturn]

The idea that the pianist should show to the audience the emotions the music is supposed to portray through his body movement is laughable. I for one have little patience with pianists looking to the ceiling when the music goes lyrical, or something I see a lot in women pianists (but never in men) which is to move their elbows up and down as if flapping wings, as their fingers press the keys. Needless to say these movements are completely unnecessary for the purpose of sound production and should be avoided. Besides it makes the pianist look really silly.

The extra actions can also be VERY distracting to both the perfomer and the audience.  Your mention of the "wing-flapping" reminds me of a student recital I saw at the local university recently.  The girl performing seemed to have a movement pattern which was exactly the opposite of the music.

That is, when the music was fast and complex, she did not move as much, but on simple lyrical passages, she felt the need to embellish the music with some elbow-flapping.  The simpler the music, the greater the movement.  In addition to that, she also swayed back and forth, to the left and to the right, and rolled her head around.  When she did all of her movements at once, she really looked like she was performing inebriated.

It's really interesting to see pianists who are very normal people undergo complete transformations when they sit down in front of the piano.  They do strange dances and contort themselves into such unnatural positions, which they hope will help them to "tap into" the music.  As if they were trying to conjure up a magic spell!

And the ignorant audience sits spellbound, convinced they are witnessing some kind of witchcraft which the average person cannot learn or perform.  You must be one of the musically blessed!  Look at how he moves!  It is as if he is being possessed by the music itself!  What a gift he has.

For instance, Glenn Gould’s and Claudio Arrau’s habit of doing vibratos on the keys. You would imagine that they should know better. Did they actually believe they were playing a violin or a cello?

I didn't know that, but I've heard of other pianists doing the vibrato (Schnabel I think).  That Gould did it doesn't really surprise me.  After all, he believed that if he couldn't produce what he wanted to on the piano, he should hum along to compensate.

- Saturn

[faulty_damper]

I think one reason that people move around a lot is this:  The music makes them want to dance.  When music is nice, it compels you to move.  But being a performer of music, you can't do that as much.

It's some of the most distracting thing a performer can do.  The worst: Lang Lang.  My sister burst out laughing when she saw him perform for the first time.

But come on, you have to admit that when Amadeus did it, in the movie, Amadeus, it was all in good entertainment and it worked.  It wasn't distracting at all and was hilariuos - everyone was having fun and dancing all around.

I suppose Jazz pianists can get away with it a lot more.  They can sing and everything.  Like Fats Waller.

[green]

Not to generalize, but living and teaching in the East, I do notice this to be more prevalent. But the part of Canada where I am from, many Asians, I also noticed it then. No conlusions, just an unfounded observation.

[rosie]

When I switched teachers, I was having a very rough time emotionally, and I started to move alot while I was playing. Huge back and forth swaying, stuff like that. Then I went to a piano institute, and they taped my playing for me and it looked absolutely crazy! So now I am back to normal, which is not completely statue-like, but I try to keep movements to a minimum when the thought occurs to me.

[green]

Supposedly Michelangeli said moving around while playing was 'bad manners'. Bad for those who have come to hear the MUSIC, not to watch you.

[ted]

Bernhard:

Yes, videos are really revealing, aren't they. My son recently bought a camera which takes them and it was the first time I have ever watched myself play. I was scared to look at first but I was reassured to see that my mechanism and posture looked pretty good.

My personal appearance was across between Compo in Last of the Summer Wine and Jack Hackett in Father Ted - but who cares as long as the playing was all right ?

[Osset]

The worst: Lang Lang.  My sister burst out laughing when he saw him perform for the first time.

Your sister is a guy?  :-/

[faulty_damper]

Then that would mean she's my brother and I do not have a brother.

[namui]

I suppose Jazz pianists can get away with it a lot more.  They can sing and everything.  Like Fats Waller.

Just watched a DVD of Keith Jarrett .... It was beyond my imagination. Can't describe ... you''ve got to see it with your own eyes. But it's still amazing that he could steadily control the dynamics and tones inspite of that ... (movement?).