How do you deal with irrational people?

[Bob]

I'm think co-workers here.  Co-people.     On the same level as you.

Students are one thing, but coworkers are different.  Or higherups, supervisors.

People who influence your situation.  Although a group of students or underlings can have influence too if there are enough of them.

I've run into a situation were my esteemed colleagues have said I did something that isn't true. 

But the reality of the situation is that it's what people say and think, not what actually is.

How do you deal with garbage like that? 


Silence doesn't seem like a great option.  Confronting it headon and removing the problems sounds good, but I'm not sure how to go about that. 

[morningstar]

Do you ever get a chance to meet any of these coworkers alone and do you know which ones exactly are responsible? I have dealt with this kind of problem before.

[pies]

cage them

[Bob]

There's a few ways you could take 'cage them.'  Haha.

I guess I just don't like unpleasant confrontations.  A co-person who has been complaining about me doesn't say anything to me in person.  A BS-er type of person.  I hear about it second hand.  Yet the second hand person gives details that only this BS-er person would know.  It's like an odd game of real-life telephone.

I've been waiting just to see what happens.  So+So thinks I should do this... But then why doesn't So+So tell me themself?  Then So+So talks a lot about nothing, so even if I did confront them about it, I'm not sure I could trust what they say.  Already, their appearance doesn't seem to match their behavior from what I can tell.

I think I'd like to be a hermit. 

[thalberg]

Well direct confrontation can go either way.  Things can either get cleared up, or you end up getting more than you bargained for: offended people who have something new to hold against you.

In situations like that, either just put up with it, or if you do confront it, confront it with positive requests (I want........next time could you please......) rather than negative accusations (you did........you should not have.........)

[morningstar]

Corner them and make them apologize

[thalberg]

Here is an article on how to handle rumors

https://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/10/12/how_to_fight_a_rumor/?page=full

[tanman]

b*tch slap them 

[rc]

My problem is usually the bad things they say are true

I don't remember anyone ever spreading false things about me...  I'm sure people talk about me behind my back, and they might as well.  If I'm a bastard, people need to know.

Here's something I can contribute though - my coworker knows somebody who's gone around spreading lies about him.  Coworker was pretty mad about this for a long time, the liar joined his band and managed to turn the rest of the band against him and he got kicked out of the band he created, the liar took over the reins.

Coworker is mad, but he goes about his life, being a decent fellow.  Meanwhile the liar talks big but slowly ruins the band.  At this point, others invloved with that situation (band members, friends) are seeing the incongruencies.  Time exposes the liar.  My coworker has a solid case because his story is the truth.  Liar loses credibility, people know whose word is worth more.

People I've known who spread lies, I've come to believe are seriously crazy in some way.  I think on a superficial level they actually have themselves convinced of the lie, they think it's true.

[morningstar]

Keep your pimp hand strong.

[frigo]

i just don't deal

[momopi]

ugh. rumors, i hate them.

"Oh Bob! I heard you blah blah and blah!"
"Oh really? Wow! i didn't know that. Who told you?"
"I heard from blah blah and blah!"
"They must be fortune-tellers, I haven't done it yet, I don't even have the plan to do so but they already know!"

[cmg]

There's an art to confronting people who hurt you. 

Start from your feelings:

"Oh, Louise, that thing you said about me?  It really hurt my feelings."

Using this opening, you disarm them because you're NOT confronting them with anything but YOUR FEELINGS.  Not their crudeness or cruelty.  They can't get as immediately defensive.  No one can say, "Oh, Bob, you're not hurt."  You are.  Make them deal with that.  Trust me, they'll back down and scuttle off to that dark sewer they inhabit.

[Imagine:  hurting our dear Bob!  The swine!]

[Bob]

Hmm.... It's someone saying "So+So wants you to do this," when that someone doesn't know anything about the situation.  The information they give is correct though so it's safe to think it's what this other person is thinking.

But they don't say it.  Apparently I'm wrong, did/am doing something wrong.  But they don't say it to me.  But it's enough of a concern to them that they complain to other people about it.

I find it annoying.  An adult too.  Sometimes I don't see much difference between kids and adults.  Adult does not mean mature.  I feel like saying, darnit, be a man and just tell me instead of whing to more coworker people.  I can't read people's minds.  I'm not sure I'd want to either.  Haha.

[momopi]

I find it annoying.  An adult too.  Sometimes I don't see much difference between kids and adults.  Adult does not mean mature.  I feel like saying, darnit, be a man and just tell me instead of whining to more coworker people.

Exactly my thoughts.

[lostinidlewonder]

You can always go up to the people you have a problem with and discuss the issue with no emotions attached. You don't go running in and say, "Hey you! So, I've heard from someone else that you said this and that. Well? What have you got to say for yourself, why can't you say it to my face? Do you know what I think? Blah blah. The person closes up defends themselves viciously and no one wins.

Why not go up to them and ask a professional question. If they have a problem how you go about doing X, go up to them and say, I have been doing X in this way but would like some advice and input of yours about doing it.

No one loses, you both start a communication. It doesn't matter who says more, let them say as much as they want. You shouldn't be defensive or refute anything. Simply say you understand their perspective and will take it on board. People like to know they have been listened to, it boosts their ego, if you go and say you will take what they say on board they are extremely excited. Involve them in the situation and you will find out the problem is nothing so much. Let them know that they can approach you about anything and that there is no personal feelings involved. You can say things like, its really great to be able to discuss different views, you really get a new perspective on the situation. It is the underhanded, talking behind backs, saving face etc that really stuffs up a professional environment.

Then go back to your normal work. Perhaps you can even take on board some of what they said if it will benefit you. If it doesn't then continue the way you did. If they have a problem then you can say please lets discuss it as openly as we did before. If there is no change between yourself and the other person then no one is winning.

I never let people know how I feel personally over issues. If people are bad mannered to me I don't get all upset and react as I would normally do. I hold my cards close, don't give them an inch of it. Then your responses are not emotional and will not be open to an emotional battle of wits.

People certainly do not like to be refuted. You should not make it a habit to point out peoples mistakes. However you may point out their mistakes if it relates to an opinion about yourself (only if you care about it). In a positive teamwork environment peoples opinions about you is very important and you should set people straight on those issues. However opinion on everything else does not have to be argued. If they have a problem with how you do something professionally then you can discuss, it does not mean that you have to change or they have to change, you discuss, evaluate the situation and make a decision then.

If nothing works then just rub your eyes with fists and start crying like a baby when they start complaining. Seriously if people talk behind your back you simply say to the people who are relaying it, well if they have a problem they can come to me, that is what you do in a professional environment. If the issues is not so important and they only want to spread rumors behind peoples backs then this is not my responsibility.

[0range]

If you work in an environment where your co-workers are constantly talking about eachother behind their backs, I would invest in a little digital voice recorder. They make them quite cheaply these days, and some of them are small enough to be of practical use.

Just always keep it on when you're at work. After a few months, you should have enough blackmail material that you can own just about anyone.

I almost did this, but then I realized I didn't care enough, so I spent the money on food.

[thalberg]

Orange is right!!!  I got one for 55 dollars.  They sell them also for 35 dollars, but those ones are not PC compatible.

The voice recorders are small and silent and inconspicuous and they can record for hours and hours without making a noise.

My only question is about legal issues.  I don't know if it's illegal to record people or not.

[morningstar]

I suppose if it went to court it would be admissible because they never consented to it but you don't have to tell them about it, just say you overheard everything. They'll think you're omnipotent or something and will get paranoid

[lostinidlewonder]

I think the judge will laugh in your face for having the audacity to secretly record people hoping to catch them talking about you. What is it going to do? You will not be able to get them in trouble, unless they talk about killing you, or ruining you professionally. Even then recorded voice doesn't mean much, you can say whatever you want, whether you act on it is different.

[morningstar]

My point was not to get them in trouble, just to let them know you know what they are saying. It'll drive them nuts!

[pies]

a

[Bob]

I was going to ask what you do with the bodies then, but thinking more, I don't want to know.

Interesting about the tape.  I wonder if that would work with students.  I remember a few news stories where teachers actually did that.  I've had a few students actually wanting to tape their mouths shut.  "No, you may not tape your mouth shut.  No.  I said no.  Give me the tape."

[0range]

Err.. of course it would be inadmissible to a legal court, but that is not really the point. The point is to get people on tape talking derogatorily about other people to you so that you can discredit these people if necessary. ("Oh, So-so said that about XYZ, did she? Well, perhaps you'd like to hear what she's been saying about you, Boss.")

It's also useful for idiots who claim they never said things, or that you said something you didn't, etc...

https://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,437486,00.html

There are much more practical ways to get women to listen to you than duct-taping them. Arm locks are a great start.

[communist]

loose your cool with them 

[mad_max2024]

I usually let them get away with what they want and politely steer them in a path that will enhance their own irrationality.

i.e. "I'm sorry, I'm not really sure how that works, maybe you would be kind enough to show me..."

I'm a manipulative bastard... 

[0range]

I usually let them get away with what they want and politely steer them in a path that will enhance their own irrationality.

i.e. "I'm sorry, I'm not really sure how that works, maybe you would be kind enough to show me..."

I'm a manipulative bastard... 

I find I can rarely muster up the patience for things of this nature, but I wish I could more often.

[Bob]

The situation has passed for now.  I did nothing.  I know something else was going on but no one said a word to me about it.  People are weird.

Sneaky recording is a little out there.  It sounds interesting, but how do you let on that you have the recording?  Once you bring it out, it will be obvious that you were sneaking around to make it.

[morningstar]

You don't tell them you recorded them, just sort of talk to them about stuff they would think you couldn't possibly know. I did it at school a bit (though my eavesdropping was without the aid of a voice recorder) and it had a really good effect on them.

[timothy42b]

Err.. of course it would be inadmissible to a legal court, but that is not really the point. The point is to get people on tape talking derogatorily about other people to you so that you can discredit these people if necessary.

Nah, no point.  Underlying your approach is the desire to make these people feel bad.  A) you can't do it, they have no sense of guilt, and B) how would that make you feel any better? 

[timothy42b]

You can always go up to the people you have a problem with and discuss the issue with no emotions attached.

Good essay, after a bad first sentence.

Because unfortunately, most people CANNOT discuss without the emotions.  You have to let them go first, and that's a skill most people don't have. 

[lostinidlewonder]

Good essay, after a bad first sentence.

Because unfortunately, most people CANNOT discuss without the emotions.  You have to let them go first, and that's a skill most people don't have. 

Certainly it requires control and a clear head. I find that mixing personal with professional is not always a good idea especially when trying to solve professional relationship problems. Everyone can control their emotions, most don't because they are afraid they will not be listened to, so making a big fuss makes them feel confident that people listen to them. It just stuns me that adults can act with such ridiculous manners sometimes, but it doesn't surprise me when I find out that they have been doing the same job, same position for over 30 years.

[mad_max2024]

Most arguments are not about solving issues, they are about who wins.

That's why I usually just let the other person win and stop wasting time with it, especially if it's a superior at work.
I like arguing with people who listen but unfortunately they are a vast minority.
Most just want to win.

[morningstar]

Most arguments are not about solving issues, they are about who wins.

That's why I usually just let the other person win and stop wasting time with it, especially if it's a superior at work.
I like arguing with people who listen but unfortunately they are a vast minority.
Most just want to win.

You have to be careful about the terms one of you wins on though. I have a funny anecdote for this one:
At schoolies I was talking to a girl by the pool I had met at the pool the night before. One of my friends comes past and says "Well that was pointless, you didn't even get her number." So I said "Actually I did get her number," so he shut up and I won.
On the last night we had a party in our room and he asked her if it was true that she did give me her number and she went off, stole my room key card and everyone else's schoolies IDs. Also he bf tried to fight me but that's not really relevant.
So yeah it can cost you in the long run.

[mad_max2024]

My point exactly.
People blindly want to win, if you were to lose the argument your friend would be happy and you would have had less trouble... 
In such arguments nobody ever wins, they just think they do.

What ticks me off is that people want to win at any cost and finding the truth of the issue is the last thing that matters.
Animal competition I guess...

[morningstar]

They might win the starting battle but it comes back to bite them on the ass eventually. So lose, take it like a man and laugh when it gets the other person on the ass.

[0range]

Nah, no point.  Underlying your approach is the desire to make these people feel bad.  A) you can't do it, they have no sense of guilt, and B) how would that make you feel any better?

No. Underlying my approach is my desire to defend myself from people's idiocy.

Here's an example in which I would've benefited tremendously from carrying around a discreet voice recorder.

I used to work in a restaurant as a waiter, and the restaurant would get quite dead in the late afternoon, after the lunch rush and before the dinner rush. Usually there would be two people scheduled to fill this lull, one would work until 4:00pm and the other until 5:00pm.

On this day, I was scheduled for 5:00pm. At 3:00, after there had been no customers for an hour or so, I went to the manager and told him this, and suggested that he cut someone. He told me since it was so dead, I could leave. I shrugged, gathered my things and left.

This ended up being a problem, because I left at 3:00pm, and the 4:00pm person, predictably, left at 4:00pm, leaving no wait-staff on from 4:00pm to 5:00pm.

The next day, he approached me livid, because I had lied to him and told him that I was only scheduled for the 4:00pm slot, and that I had purposefully screwed him over, and several invectives. When I tried telling him that he was wrong, he only grew angrier.

So, this is the main point of carrying a voice recorder. People do not accurately remember what they say, or what you say, and take extreme liberties with this later on down the road based off of current circumstances and their emotions (which these people allow total free reign).

how would that make you feel any better?

Now, it just so happens that I do take pleasure from throwing people's idiocy back in their face in a way that they can see it, if they're bothering me. So that answers this question.

[timothy42b]

Now, it just so happens that I do take pleasure from throwing people's idiocy back in their face in a way that they can see it, if they're bothering me. So that answers this question.

Thought so.

Have you ever run into a situation where this was counterproductive???

I can see where you will feel good proving them wrong.

I'm pretty sure that will leave them feeling bad.  And more likely to dump on you again when they get the chance. 

And you still have to work with the whole crew, right?  Sometimes the job is more fun when people are getting along.  Just a suggestion. 

[rc]

That's how I see it too, Timothy.

But, I do agree with Lostinidle's point about being emotionally detached.  Or at least trying to be.  Of course there's emotion, there wouldn't be a problem if the situation didn't upset me in the first place, but I try to think it over later so I can be cool-headed when it's time to fix it.  A lot of the time this cool-headedness can mellow out whatever anger the other person might have.

Besides, if I'm not vindictive and take into consideration the other person, I can find a solution that's good for them as well.  That makes it easier.

aaand sometimes, communists way works too - losing the cool.  That's plan D.

[G.W.K]

I struggle to deal with irrational people. I wish I could learn to cope with them but I cannot deal with people who are irrational, cocky, arrogant, rude, stupid, etc.

Not a good quality to have! LOL Perhaps one day, I'll learn how to deal with them either in a mature way, or just a way to shut them up (and I don't mean violence!).

G.W.K

[timothy42b]

aaand sometimes, communists way works too - losing the cool.  That's plan D.

If I can stay detached, I prefer it.  That lets you choose the optimum strategy (which is sometimes doing nothing!) rather than have your emotional reactions dictate what you do.  You really want to be proactive, not reactive.   

I agree with LIW that that's what you want to do.  I was just trying to point out that it isn't always easy.  It is a learned skill that any of us can have, but many of us don't.  There are some standard approaches, such as RET, that asist greatly. 

Losing the cool.  I hate to recommend this, but will say.........very cautiously..........that if you can do this while staying calm inside, it can sometimes be effective.  You need to decide to lose your cool, not just snap and lose your temper;  essentially you are faking it to some extent, though you'll find some emotion creeps in.  But you have to keep a tight handle on it.  It's definitely an advanced technique. 

[pianistimo]

Advanced?  How about considering the other person completely rational and listening to their point of view.  Considering it. Commenting on it.  And, if you don't agree - just not search out their company.  Basically, you choose who you are with.  If you have to resort to calling someone else irrational - you have lost it already.  Even the most harried mother of young children could be completely rational - but having a bad day. Or a man who lost all his money in the stock market.  or someone who loses a job.  Do you just say 'well, they're irrational' because one day is worse than another - or they don't seem to understand where you are coming from. What if they never do?  Does it mean they are totally irrational.  They are rational from their point of view.  Who is God.  Who decides who is rational and who is irrational?  I find it absurd unless someone is going around claiming they are God.  (thal, don't say a word)>

[thalbergmad]

Who is God.  Who decides who is rational and who is irrational?  I find it absurd unless someone is going around claiming they are God.  (thal, don't say a word)>

Thread infestation alert

[G.W.K]

Thread infestation alert

Indeed. 7300 posts from pianistimo are dedicated to the "Anything But Piano" Board. 7297 of them are religious.

G.W.K

[ahinton]

He's said three...

Best,

Alistair

[G.W.K]

He's said three...

Just realised that mistake...LOL

Modified the post now, thank you Alistair for pointing that out, subtly.

G.W.K

[pianistimo]

So.  Do you think that pianists should always talk about piano?  What kind of an irrational person do you want me to be?  Can't i have other interests?

[G.W.K]

Can't i have other interests?

Yes Susan. Everyone can have their own interests. However, that interest should not take up 7300ish posts!

G.W.K

[ahinton]

So.  Do you think that pianists should always talk about piano?  What kind of an irrational person do you want me to be?  Can't i have other interests?

I know that you were not addressing me directly but I should say that I do not want you to be any kind of irrational person; what kind of hope might I have of this when, after yet despite various forum censures and self-censorship, you still persist in Godding and Bibling your way through so very much of what you now post here? Your post count has been immense and, as G.W.K. and others have either pointed out or implied, a disproportionate amount (I do not of course say all) of the content of your posts has been oriented towards your very specific religious beliefs, irrespective of their possible relevance or otherwise to the topic of the threads various in which they have appeared.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Can't i have other interests?

I wish you did have