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worst pianos (Read 30496 times)

Offline pianojems

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worst pianos
« on: June 29, 2004, 05:43:48 PM »
I know that this is not the subject of the forum but I need some advice. I need to buy a grand piano for my home. Since you all seem so experienced and since there are so many choices, can you tell me which pianos are not good for this purpose, and/or bad, and the ones you all like. I'm planning to practice on it and have home recitals. I am also concerned about having a beautiful rich sound, and good maintenance. I would appreciate any advice! Thanks
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Offline jr11

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #1 on: June 29, 2004, 05:57:25 PM »
I don't think there are any real lemons out there. In general, you get what you pay for; buy the best you can afford. There is also quite a variation in individuals of the same model with some makes. Pricing seems to vary widely regionally. What you need to do is get out there and play all the pianos in your price range you can. Many people are pleased with the value of Japanese and Chinese brands, so that may be a good place to start.

Good luck, and have fun shopping!

Spatula

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #2 on: June 29, 2004, 06:46:30 PM »
Those Young and chang ripoffs of the blueprint Steinways....eeeggghh!  :P

Spatula

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #3 on: June 29, 2004, 06:46:54 PM »
HERES A SIGN:

FLAK ME! FLAK ME! FLAK ME!

Offline monk

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #4 on: June 29, 2004, 07:42:23 PM »
There ARE lemons out there!

Beware of these cheap pianos from China or Russia.

Brands? E.g. "Samick" - these are really horrible.

Best Wishes,
Monk

Offline Hmoll

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #5 on: June 29, 2004, 08:01:17 PM »
Quote
I know that this is not the subject of the forum but I need some advice. I need to buy a grand piano for my home. Since you all seem so experienced and since there are so many choices, can you tell me which pianos are not good for this purpose, and/or bad, and the ones you all like. I'm planning to practice on it and have home recitals. I am also concerned about having a beautiful rich sound, and good maintenance. I would appreciate any advice! Thanks


There is an "Instruments" area of this forum, where your question probably should have been posted.

The piano that suits you the best depends on a lot of things, not least of all the sound you like, the price you are willing to pay, and the durability you require.

You should buy Larry Fines "The Piano Book." US, European, and Asian pianos are covered comprehensively. The book is not available for free online, it costs about $40 or so. Considering the 5 (and 6) figure price tags of grand pianos, its a smart investment.

Take your time, play a lot of instruments. Do not make a rush decision. Don't let anyone tell you a particular brand is the best. The bottom line is you are going to be playig the piano, so it has to be the one you love.
"I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your review before me. In a moment it will be behind me!" -- Max Reger

Spatula

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #6 on: June 29, 2004, 09:24:57 PM »
Quote
There ARE lemons out there!

Beware of these cheap pianos from China or Russia.

Brands? E.g. "Samick" - these are really horrible.

Best Wishes,
Monk


That brands sounds like the brand of electronics that would rip off from another poor brand...so it;s like a ripoff of a ripoff.  

I've never heard a Russian piano, but boy, MADE IN CHINA products suck no matter what, even their condoms, they never seem to work.  (come here my illegitimate children)  :o

Offline donjuan

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #7 on: June 29, 2004, 09:37:05 PM »
lol chinese condoms!! lol

Avoid the chinese brands like "Pearl River".  They are crap, no matter how you look at it.  I would recommend Petrof, but I have heard of horror stories of the pianos cracking in cold weather...I dont know, it all depends on where you live.

Yamaha is always dependable, and you will probably be satisfied, but it tends to sound a little bright.  I hate Kawai most of all because of the stiff action and muffled sound they tend to have.  

How much money are you willing to pay, pianojems?
donjuan

Spatula

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #8 on: June 29, 2004, 09:44:22 PM »
Quote
lol chinese condoms!! lol

Avoid the chinese brands like "Pearl River".
donjuan


Pearl River, sounds like it's "quality" is just about as depedent as the chances you'd find pearls in my stream in my backyard.  Those pianos are CRAP!  

f0bul0us

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #9 on: June 29, 2004, 09:44:25 PM »
Quote
lol chinese condoms!! lol

Avoid the chinese brands like "Pearl River".  They are crap, no matter how you look at it.  I would recommend Petrof, but I have heard of horror stories of the pianos cracking in cold weather...I dont know, it all depends on where you live.

Yamaha is always dependable, and you will probably be satisfied, but it tends to sound a little bright.  I hate Kawai most of all because of the stiff action and muffled sound they tend to have.  

How much money are you willing to pay, pianojems?
donjuan

First of all, donjuan, Pearl River's are state of the art (of what art? I'm not sure). Second, stop being so racist to Kawai! They Outmatch Yamaha in Grands and Digitals! Tell me one digital Yamaha piano that can burn what you play to a CD?????? Let's see you try, "dony"! >:(

Spatula

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #10 on: June 29, 2004, 09:46:56 PM »
Quote

First of all, donjuan, Pearl River's are state of the art (of what art? I'm not sure). (


They're state of the art for being total rip offs, all of them I've tried were TERRIBLE both used new on the showroom, as a matter of fact, the store was ready to use that as firewood, save the disklaver function.  Burning the songs to music?  I'm sure so many other brands can easily use and implement that concept in their own pianos

f0bul0us

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #11 on: June 29, 2004, 09:54:17 PM »
"Whateva, you don't know me, si'down, shu'dup, whateva whateva" - Jerry Springer.

Offline donjuan

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #12 on: June 29, 2004, 09:56:48 PM »
Quote


They're state of the art for being total rip offs, all of them I've tried were TERRIBLE both used new on the showroom, as a matter of fact, the store was ready to use that as firewood, save the disklaver function.  Burning the songs to music?  I'm sure so many other brands can easily use and implement that concept in their own pianos

ha! why, that's just a f0bul0us rebuttal!!;D  Touche'

Spatula

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #13 on: June 29, 2004, 10:00:05 PM »
Quote
"Whateva, you don't know me, si'down, shu'dup, whateva whateva" - Jerry Springer.


JS saying that??? hahahaahah!!! I think that should be king of "reality" TV even though it really isnt..but still how could he say that (makes me roflfho)

Offline donjuan

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #14 on: June 29, 2004, 10:00:56 PM »
Quote

Tell me one digital Yamaha piano that can burn what you play to a CD?????? Let's see you try, "dony"! >:(

besides, why the he11 would I want to burn recordings from a digital on to a CD?  Listening to that would be like listening to a recording of a recording!

Offline donjuan

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #15 on: June 29, 2004, 10:02:12 PM »
You know, I just realized this is an all-Canadian argument, eh?

Spatula

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #16 on: June 29, 2004, 10:04:18 PM »
Quote
You know, I just realized this is an all-Canadian argument, eh?


f0bul0us is CDN? no way!  :o :o :o

Offline donjuan

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Spatula

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #18 on: June 29, 2004, 10:17:24 PM »
Well I'll be a monkey's piano bench  :P

Offline Peachy_Keen

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #19 on: June 29, 2004, 11:23:53 PM »
I'm cheating yes I know, but I think the worst piano in the world would be a gutted Steinway with an early 90's Casio Keyboard wired up inside.
Member of the Bernhard fan club.

Offline Dave_2004_G

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #20 on: June 30, 2004, 12:21:28 AM »
Seriously, the best thing to do when buying a piano is to use your own ears, since everyone has different preferences...I suppose you might want to get someone who knows more about them to check it out to make sure it's not going to fall apart as soon as you get it home

Dave

f0bul0us

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #21 on: June 30, 2004, 01:28:19 AM »
Quote


f0bul0us is CDN? no way!  :o :o :o

Looks like somebody missed my "Who's Canadian Here, Eh?" thread!  >:(

Offline pianiststrongbad

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #22 on: June 30, 2004, 03:07:24 AM »
Though I have never owned one, I have always dreamed of having my own Bosendorfer

Offline maxy

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #23 on: June 30, 2004, 04:39:59 AM »
If you are not very advanced, get the best pianist you can find to shop with you.  Some pianos on display are extremely well "tuned".  Great technicians will make a lame piano sound great.  You can't go with sound alone.  

Key resistance is very important. Test the key resistance between the different registers.  You don't want too much difference between high and low register.  (preowned pianos are generally softer at middle register).

Sadly, even the big names have bad pianos (Kawai, Yamaha, Baldwin).  But they do have some great ones too.

Offline Antnee

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #24 on: June 30, 2004, 05:29:48 AM »
Quote
Those Young and chang ripoffs of the blueprint Steinways....eeeggghh!  :P


Spatula, are you refering to the Pramberger's?? I have a platinum addition one and I got for a very good Price. They retail for about 30,000 and got for about 14000. Brand new. Larry fine gives the normal Young Chang Pramberger about four stars out of five and says that he didn't have time to rate the platinum additions but they were even better than the regular Prambergers. I Really like mine. Of course nothing can really compare to a Steinway... and maybe you weren't even talking about these pianos so I could be just misunderstanding!!!  :D

-Tony-
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Offline Hmoll

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #25 on: June 30, 2004, 02:12:45 PM »
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If you are not very advanced, get the best pianist you can find to shop with you.  Some pianos on display are extremely well "tuned".  Great technicians will make a lame piano sound great.  You can't go with sound alone.  



Sorry, but I can't agree with this. Pianist, even the "best" ones rarely know much about the instrument.

If you want to bring anyone with you shopping, take a long a reputable tech. They have experience servicing numerous brands, can explain what can be done in prep, durability, corners cut by dealers, dealer sales tactics. Pianists, in many cases, are babes in the woods, and are in many cases useless for shopping.

WHat I said before:
The piano that suits you the best depends on a lot of things, not least of all the sound you like, the price you are willing to pay, and the durability you require.

You should buy Larry Fines "The Piano Book." US, European, and Asian pianos are covered comprehensively. The book is not available for free online, it costs about $40 or so. Considering the 5 (and 6) figure price tags of grand pianos, its a smart investment.


"I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your review before me. In a moment it will be behind me!" -- Max Reger

Offline pianojems

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #26 on: June 30, 2004, 08:00:50 PM »
I am looking for a piano at the price at most of 10-15, 000 for now. Are you guys saying that young chang and such are horrible? What about estonia? What brand of piano do you all own, and how is it working for you?
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Offline Hmoll

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #27 on: June 30, 2004, 08:24:19 PM »
Quote
I am looking for a piano at the price at most of 10-15, 000 for now. Are you guys saying that young chang and such are horrible? What about estonia? What brand of piano do you all own, and how is it working for you?

Why don't you take a look at this section of the forum:

http://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=inst

There are hundreds of posts, and scores of them answer the questions you are asking. There is even a recent thread on Estonia.

Do some reading. ;)
"I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your review before me. In a moment it will be behind me!" -- Max Reger

Offline janice

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #28 on: June 30, 2004, 10:58:40 PM »
Pianogems, Young Chang and Yamaha are very similar.  I had to laugh at Young Chang when it first came out--I thought it was a cheap piano with a name like that!  From what I have heard and read, Young Chang is the best quality at that cheap of a price.  I know someone with a Young Chang.  I will tell her to post here.  But I think she's out of town right now, so it might be a week or so.


http://pianoadvisory.com/kawai-pianos.html

This page addresses the Kawai vs Yamaha dilemma.
Have a look around the rest of the site.  Very informative! I have a Kawai, and I absolutely LOVE it!!
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Offline Motrax

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #29 on: July 01, 2004, 12:56:51 AM »
I have a Young Chang. Indeed, the name implies terrible quality, but it has kept up in near perfect condition for the 6 years I've owned it. It was rated best piano under 10,000 dollars some years ago - I don't know what the new ones are like. Speaking about my piano alone, the base notes give a very rich, deep sound. The keys in the upper register are lighter than I would prefer (of course I've gotten used to that, but if I could change them I would), but that's only when you get about 2.5 octaves above middle C. I have not noticed any change in key resistance between different registers - the piano has remained rather constant as far as I can tell. The action itself is relatively easy, but not too springy - it makes for very easy control of dinamics. Overall, it has a slightly brighter-than-average tone, but depending on the size of the piano room, this can be alleviated (if you see it as a problem). I got a 5'7'' baby grand.

Yamaha pianos are somewhat similar to the Young Chang I have, but the action is slightly harder and springier. It's slightly more difficult for me to control dinamics on Yamahas, and I think the sound is brighter too. Too much for me, anyway.

I really have not played on a Kawaii which I liked. The ones I've played on so far have sounded rather empty. The action was somewhat lousy, too.

A friend of mine owns a Baldwin baby grand and a Baldwin concert grand. The baby grand has EXTREMELY tough action, but the tone is very good. My friend said that the tough action makes every other piano feel very very light. The concert grand is much the converse - it's noisy, has a strident tone, and has the lightest action of any piano I've ever seen.

As far as Steinways are concerned, there are good ones and there are lousy ones. Older models and special editions are generally better, but those cost much more than your 15,000 dollar limit. I really don't like the action of any Steinway I've ever played, and the tone on Steinway baby grands has never pleased me very much. I would say they are much overrated, or perhaps just much overpriced. Don't know enough about the concert grands to say anything about those though.

When you test a piano in a store, don't jump to quick conclusions. Keep in mind that a piano needs to be worn in, and the action will probably become slightly easier as time progresses. Don't choose a piano with very easy action, because it will make every other piano seem a chore to play. Also, if you have a small sized room, you should opt for a duller sound. A store environment will usually take away some of the edge on a piano's sound in comparison to the room you'll put it in, so when you purchase the piano and play it in your own home, it will most likely be slightly brighter than it sounded originally. This is assuming you don't have a very large space to put your piano, of course.
"I always make sure that the lid over the keyboard is open before I start to play." --  Artur Schnabel, after being asked for the secret of piano playing.

Offline Motrax

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #30 on: July 01, 2004, 01:00:37 AM »
Forgot to add, my piano holds it's tune surprisingly well. It's situated right next to a window on the first floor. And I practice around 4 hours a day.  :)
"I always make sure that the lid over the keyboard is open before I start to play." --  Artur Schnabel, after being asked for the secret of piano playing.

f0bul0us

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #31 on: July 01, 2004, 01:27:15 AM »
Quote
Forgot to add, my piano holds it's tune surprisingly well. It's situated right next to a window on the first floor. And I practice around 4 hours a day.  :)

Terrible place for a piano...but hey! I'm not the one playing it ;D

Offline Motrax

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #32 on: July 01, 2004, 03:49:17 AM »
It is an awful place indeed. The basement wasn't finished yet when I bought the piano and upstairs would probably collapse under the weight. So it gets the biggest room in the house, in the only corner where it won't block a doorway.  :(
"I always make sure that the lid over the keyboard is open before I start to play." --  Artur Schnabel, after being asked for the secret of piano playing.

Offline Clare

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #33 on: July 01, 2004, 05:43:55 AM »
I wouldn't get a Schimmel. I'm scared of Schimmels.

Offline maxy

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #34 on: July 01, 2004, 06:18:36 AM »
A good pianist will recognize a good piano.  Bringing a strong pianist for shopping is good.  Once some models are identified as "good", bringing a technician can be a very wise move indeed.

IMO, Young chang is still bad, but their sound is improving.  Kawai produces "cold" pianos.  It won't make a pianist sound better than he should, unlike some Yamaha's or Steinway's.  Still they can have extremely quick mecanism.  Baldwin is generally good, but they seem to break easy...

Offline Hmoll

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #35 on: July 01, 2004, 04:43:31 PM »
Quote
A good pianist will recognize a good piano.  Bringing a strong pianist for shopping is good.  Once some models are identified as "good", bringing a technician can be a very wise move indeed.




Most pianists - regardless of how well they play - cannot recognize a good piano. Most pianist know about a few brands, and are preconditioned to look for and play those brands in dealers. Look at the posts in the "Instruments" area if you don't believe me. Most everything is about Bosie, S&S, Fazioli, Baldwin, Kawai, Yamaha, YC. Mosts pianists - and I know hundreds - have never played any other brands, so don't know anything about them.  Most pianists are not open minded. They have a particular experience with a certain brand, and that's the preconceived baggage that colors advice they give other people about those brands, without any real technical knowledge to back up their opinions.

Good reputable technicians know a broad range of makes and models because they service them. If they hear a piano in a showroom that has a sound that is too bright, they can advise the buyer whether that sound can be made less bright through prep based on their history with it. That tech can tell the dealer what needs to be done, and the customer can come back and check the piano another day to see if it is better.  
A good tech knows the different components of the sound a piano makes. Good pianists usually do not.

Ask the "best" pianist you know what the three components of a piano's sound is. I'll bet they can't answer that questions. Any good tech can. They can because in their profession they work with each of those components individually, and regulate them.

A good tech will also know all the sleazy sales tactics of dealers. Most pianists are babes in the woods who listen to nonsense about "gray market Yamahas,"  pianos specifically manufactured for certain geographic areas, and other bull from dealers.

I'm not saying pianists are stupid, they just, for the most part, don't take the time to acquire knowledge about the instrument.

If I want to buy a car, I'm not going to bring Michael Schumacher along to the dealer. I'm going to bring my mechanic.
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Offline pianojems

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #36 on: July 01, 2004, 06:26:04 PM »
What about used pianos? Do you think its good to explore that option? ;D
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Offline Hmoll

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #37 on: July 02, 2004, 05:37:33 PM »
Quote
What about used pianos? Do you think its good to explore that option? ;D


Absolutely. In that case, it is even more important to have a tech check it out.
"I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your review before me. In a moment it will be behind me!" -- Max Reger

Spatula

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #38 on: July 02, 2004, 09:23:13 PM »
Quote


Spatula, are you refering to the Pramberger's?? I have a platinum addition one and I got for a very good Price. They retail for about 30,000 and got for about 14000. Brand new. Larry fine gives the normal Young Chang Pramberger about four stars out of five and says that he didn't have time to rate the platinum additions but they were even better than the regular Prambergers. I Really like mine. Of course nothing can really compare to a Steinway... and maybe you weren't even talking about these pianos so I could be just misunderstanding!!!  :D

-Tony-


Not refering to these Prambergers, mainly because I've never tried them, but the regular Y & C pianos...eck!

Offline Irock1ce

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Re: worst pianos
«Reply #39 on: July 08, 2004, 08:42:46 AM »
u want bad? I have a "Cline". The action will freaking break your fingers. Playing something fast on this Cline is near impossible due to its crappy action.
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