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New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc. (Read 10218 times)

Offline thalbergmad

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Have you ever considered finding another forum to infest? If you are unhappy with your treatment here, the simple solution would be to leave.

Perhaps there is one where everyone loves award winning product.

Thal
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Concerto Preservation Society

Offline Steffen Fahl

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Have you ever considered finding another forum to infest? If you are unhappy with your treatment here, the simple solution would be to leave.

Perhaps there is one where everyone loves award winning product.

Thal
So, what are you so infested in this forum that so many loose their mind so immediatly?
Isn't it curious.
If it would be so clear, why couldn't you show me any single sentence i've posted anything unreasonable that might provocate this instead of hiding yourself behind alledged majorities and superficial irony?
There are not that much guys talking colloquial here to get the impression that those might be anything else or anything more important but what their kind of speech inspires to think about them.
fahl5

Offline thalbergmad

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If you don't like us, bog off.

Thal
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Offline Steffen Fahl

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If you don't like us, bog off.

Thal
So you even cant proof that seemingly simple matter I would "infest" anything.
that's realy a pity.

Why did the guys become short and pudent only when they must recognized that all what they esteemed as their founded opinion was nothing but emotion, pure unreflected emotion.

At least that seems the only thing you dare to write.
Is this you were infested?
fahl5

Offline thalbergmad

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Habit have you a putting in words of order wrong.

Difficult it makes this understand to point the you make trying.

Proof nothing you have.

Award machine winning down closing.

Halt
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Offline Steffen Fahl

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Habit have you a putting in words of order wrong.

Difficult it makes this understand to point the you make trying.

Proof nothing you have.

Award machine winning down closing.

Halt
Nice attempt, but not that funny, you are trying to be.
But if you like we can go on in german if you prefer a more fluent language from my side...

I am not sure that this might explain anything of the whole bunch of things posted here from others.

But for a clown, it's OK maybe.

Go and try to catch your amusement if thats all for you...

Offline prongated

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But they were impudent enough to argue more.

...so I heard what you have to offer in your website, and these are what I think of 1 of the performances in your site of the pieces that I know back to front - that is to say, extremely well. Let's see if it's more to your liking.


Bach - P&F bk II no. 18 in G# minor

Prelude:
What's going on with the turns on bars 18 and 19? It's the same thing, but you played it different every time! Top note of the turn on bar 18 is to E natural, not E sharp, and bottom note of the turn on bar 19 is C double-sharp, not C sharp.
Fine starting tempo, although I personally preferred it slower for a somewhat different atmosphere. I just wished you kept it going after that bright start - for example, why slow down at the end of bar 4? More importantly, make sure the rest of the piece is at the same tempo as the starting tempo! Yours just keep getting slower and slower as the piece progresses - very slowly but surely so.
Think again about the balance between LH and RH. LH accompaniment I can barely hear. Do you really want it to be that soft?
Also, most of your slurred notes are not right. You accented the end of the slurs, instead of making it lighter.
Overall, the piece feels rather unrefined because some passageworks are not secure. For example, the passagework towards the end of bar 20 is rather messy and uneven. Just needs more practise I think. And did you intentionally program rubatos here and there, or is that just insecure passagework (e.g. bars 37-39)? Either way, it contributes further to this feeling of insecurity and unrefinement.
After all the above are addressed, there needs to be a dynamic plan. Your dynamic is very level throughout. Use the harmonic progressions/tensions as a guide. For example, bars 8-11 should have a decrescendo because it is a chromatically descending passage, whereas bars 11-15 should have a crescendo because the circle of 5ths harmonic progression is creating tension.

Fugue:
NO RUBATOS! OMG! They sound SO pedantic, and they RUIN the flow of the fugue!
Look, if you're performing this on the harpsicord, what you're doing may be OK (I know about performance practises in the Baroque period, but I'm not claiming to be an expert here), but on our piano, we are able to do what other musicians in the Baroque era had been doing all along! Dynamics! Tone colour! Articulation! Time (e.g. rubato) suddenly becomes one of the many expressive devices we can use to play the music that is Bach's keyboard music!


Addressing the original question then (whether or not it will satisfy the musical demands); well, let's not address it. Both Prelude & Fugue here needs practising and thinking - more the case of practising in the Prelude and the case of thinking in the Fugue.

Offline prongated

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Nice attempt, but not that funny, you are trying to be.
But if you like we can go on in german if you prefer a more fluent language from my side...

I am not sure that this might explain anything of the whole bunch of things posted here from others.

But for a clown, it's OK maybe.

Go and try to catch your amusement if thats all for you...

...thal will no doubt come up with something (I hope amusing!) again, but in the meantime...
Seriously, it's ok to not know a language like English very well. It really is OK. But it's not cool if you start arguing, especially in a condescending manner, with people over the interpretation of English. Especially when those people you argue with know the English language better than you. Specifically (and this is essentially what Thal is referring to) grammar.

Offline Steffen Fahl

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...so I heard what you have to offer in your website, and these are what I think of 1 of the performances in your site of the pieces that I know back to front - that is to say, extremely well. Let's see if it's more to your liking.

Hi prongated
Of course this is definitly much more to my liking. Reading this seems to justify posting the link of my site in this pianoforum here.
But since it is pretty late now in germany and I have to work tomorrow, let me answer in depth a bit later and just assure you this seems to me on the first glance one of the most understanding post in the whole thread.

As far as I already stated on my site this Bach recordings were my very first project, I can imagine what you talking about unevennesses and so on. That was the reason why I already took the WTC i-recording of my site after a day, since I suffered my self to much from the imperfections. Which of course didn't derive from artificial rubatos, but a bit of to hasty kind of work.

Not only because I recorded each sonata twice, I spent definitly more patience and work in the Haydn recordings meanwhile I love Bach and to work on his WTC but give me a little time for today...
I will listen the recording more diligent tomorrow for more precise reaction. I am not sure I may consent in every aspect yo name, but still I need some sleep before.

best
fahl5

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Huh now he becomes definitly megalomaniac.

What great unfailable "proffesional" knowledge did you want to teach me.
- not to read the score and to be disproofed over and over again?
Yes you are unable to read a score accurately and that has been pointed out to you.

- to take suspicion as arguments ?
Yes I am very suspicious about who you claim to be. I would bet $50 that YOU ARE NOT the person from the website and just some random person wanting to annoy us ;) All arguments would have stopped if you didn't say, those pros know nothing my recordings demonstrate the real intention of the composers.

- speak english without to determine if there is just one or the whole World of lostinidlewonders is speaking?
Does anyone on earth know what you are trying to say here? Please stop pretending you can't write English properly.

- produce midifiles like those three you posted in this audition room
The difference between my midi and yours is that MY midi are recorded by REAL hands on REAL keys (bar the Sorabji), where your are Real Hands on REAL computer keyboard and keys :) Wait a minute we are going backwards now, didn't we already discuss this aspect? I think we did, oh no here we go again!

- becoming coloquial for lack of serious arguments
I think it is  you who has lack of serious arguments, however you DO know how to go about representing it. If anyone reads your responses they will notice a a confused mess of babble. When you said I was becoming more concrete (this is what you said: This is at least a more founded question than any others seemed to be able to.) than the other posters then you say I have lack of serious arguments, so that must mean that EVERYONE has lack of arguments against you. I laugh at you sir, very amusing, you provide me with endless fun.

"The biggest risk in life is to take no risk at all."
www.facebook.com/groups/348933611793249/

Offline pianisten1989

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Fahl, plz, you don't even listen to what any of us has to say. why don't you just quit?

Offline thalbergmad

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Award winning programme does not have quit button.
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline Steffen Fahl

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #162 on: February 12, 2010, 02:18:34 PM »
Yes you are unable to read a score accurately and that has been pointed out to you.
Sorry, but It would be hard to find any proof for that allegation, since I know what I am talking about.
Yes I am very suspicious about who you claim to be. I would bet $50 that YOU ARE NOT the person from the website and just some random person wanting to annoy us ;) All arguments would have stopped if you didn't say, those pros know nothing my recordings demonstrate the real intention of the composers.
Great, If you will sent me the 50$ I am ready to publish some joke about the suspicious lostinidlewonder on my musicsite. If not stop that childish suspicions.
Does anyone on earth know what you are trying to say here? Please stop pretending you can't write English properly.

Sorry, if my english is not that native than you expect it. If you like we can change to german, wenn du mich so besser verstehen kannst. Ich hätte kein Problem damit, es würde mir sogar erleichtern meine Formulierungen entsprechend zu wählen. Aber ich fürchte, dass dann nicht alle in gleicher Weise von diesem Thread profitieren könnten.
The difference between my midi and yours is that MY midi are recorded by REAL hands on REAL keys (bar the Sorabji),
If this should be true, your fingers act with a total monotony in respect of Keyvelocity and metrum, that I am happy not to hear you playing anywhere. Here is the proof.

The Mididata didn’t show the any variation from the defaultvalue of Keyvelocity and are in strict mathematical order with no the least respect for what any phrase is doing.
Just compare that with the alledgedly robotic mididata of the finale from Haydns Hob.46 (a from it self quite motoric piece. But in comparison with your Midi, each single note has its own velocityvalues and nowhere is absolute metrical mathemathical correctness.

So stop those silly allegations about “real hands”you are the one who is proofed to programm in a just mechanical but musical sensless way.
I hope those pure visible fact speak a clear language enough who is to blame for musical sensless recordings.
Best
Steffen

Offline Steffen Fahl

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #163 on: February 12, 2010, 02:24:41 PM »
Fahl, plz, you don't even listen to what any of us has to say. why don't you just quit?
If someone has something to say I am happy to listen to.
But talking without respect and without knowledge and understanding deserves nothing else but to see what is all about.
so quit yourself, if you dont have anything substantial to contribute.
best
Steffen
 

Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #164 on: February 12, 2010, 03:41:41 PM »
OH FOR CHRISTS SAKE...

Bumping your own fricking thread after a bloody month... that's just sad. I was pleased that this thread had died and hoped it had also shrivelled.

There were dozens of replies all with valid arguments and you chose to act like a dick. You weren't happy to listen - you were hoping to get people to side with your recordings... and they didn't, so don't even try to give us that "quit yourself if you don't have anything substantial to contribute"...

I am asking very kindly for some moderator to lock this bloody thread. Fahl5... so far you haven't contributed anything decent to your own thread, nor have you contributed to any other threads... so how about you take your biased views and your inability to take criticism and bugger off!!!

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #165 on: February 12, 2010, 03:55:51 PM »
Oh gawd, not this thing again.

I do hope the mods delete this garbage thread.

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline Steffen Fahl

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #166 on: February 12, 2010, 04:24:50 PM »
Hi, sorry for answering so late, but sometimes there is just more important work to do and I didn’t want to answersuperficially.
...so I heard what you have to offer in your website, and these are what I think of 1 of the performances in your site of the pieces that I know back to front - that is to say, extremely well. Let's see if it's more to your liking.
Bach - P&F bk II no. 18 in G# minor
Prelude:
What's going on with the turns on bars 18 and 19? It's the same thing, but you played it different every time! Top note of the turn on bar 18 is to E natural, not E sharp, and bottom note of the turn on bar 19 is C double-sharp, not C sharp.
http://sf-media.12hp.de/images/Bar17-20.jpg
This is the “Urtext” perhaps you should check your Edition
You will find the same here
http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/e/ef/IMSLP02195-BWV0887.pdf
Fine starting tempo, although I personally preferred it slower for a somewhat different atmosphere. I just wished you kept it going after that bright start - for example, why slow down at the end of bar 4?
That’s true I slowed down there since the “piano” Bar 3 and “forte” in the score indicates something like a dualistic situation, one can’t mark just by the use of different keyvelocities of the modern grandpiano. For Bach it would be probable, that he suggested to use a different register of the Cembalo when he wrotes dynamics like this (which is quite seldom the case as you probably know). We cant do that registerchange on a grandpiano. So I decided to underline the difference with means of agogic.
More importantly, make sure the rest of the piece is at the same tempo as the starting tempo! Yours just keep getting slower and slower as the piece progresses - very slowly but surely so.
Yes that’s right. I checked it and of course this would be one thing I should take more care of, when I will try it next time.
Think again about the balance between LH and RH. LH accompaniment I can barely hear. Do you really want it to be that soft?
Yes, I like it since the left hand is in this prelude (quite unlikly for Bach) really nothing else but just harmonic accompagnement, with out nearly any thematical substance.
Also, most of your slurred notes are not right. You accented the end of the slurs, instead of making it lighter.
I have checked it and found it true for three “slurs” (If I understand right what you mean. But that means I found it not true for all others which are by far “the most”.
Overall, the piece feels rather unrefined because some passageworks are not secure. For example, the passagework towards the end of bar 20 is rather messy and uneven. Just needs more practise I think. And did you intentionally program rubatos here and there, or is that just insecure passagework (e.g. bars 37-39)? Either way, it contributes further to this feeling of insecurity and unrefinement.
Yes I consent and if you know, that the WTC was my very first recording project of which I withdraw already the first Book and which I know I have a lot reason to refine. And no, here are no “programmed rubatos”. But I fear you may get in conflict with the others here who all seem to consent that my recordings are just outcome of mathematical correct musical robots.
After all the above are addressed, there needs to be a dynamic plan. Your dynamic is very level throughout. Use the harmonic progressions/tensions as a guide. For example, bars 8-11 should have a decrescendo because it is a chromatically descending passage, whereas bars 11-15 should have a crescendo because the circle of 5ths harmonic progression is creating tension.
I don’t consent to your conception,
1)   8-11 is not apt to a linear decrescendo, since it is a sequenced twobarphrase, I decided to let the dynamics also follow the phrase. But the second one is in fact more piano than the first.
2)   I also disagree your Idea, Bar 11-15 should perform a linear crescendo since this would mean a crescendo which would be interrupted since the passage ends in bar 15. So I think it would be more reasonable to give bar 14-15 even a bit decrescendo.
Fugue:
NO RUBATOS! OMG! They sound SO pedantic, and they RUIN the flow of the fugue!
Sorry, I really cant hear any “pedantic rubato” at all. Could you help me with any certain bar, which make obvious what you are talking about?
Addressing the original question then (whether or not it will satisfy the musical demands); well, let's not address it. Both Prelude & Fugue here needs practising and thinking - more the case of practising in the Prelude and the case of thinking in the Fugue.
Let me thank you once more for your most precise, reasonable and musical understanding critics. Take the question in the right way. I don’t pretend any wonder or miracle, but I just like to show that it might be possible to make musical reasonable use of modern technical means. Musical reasonable does not mean that all I hve done with it would be above all discussion, but I know what I have done deserves at least the respect to argue reasonable, as everybody else here around expects for his own musical contributions. Your critics seem to me one of the most reasonable nothing more but also nothing less is what I expect from people who post in this thread. Is this such a monsterous expectation?
Best
Steffen

Offline Steffen Fahl

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #167 on: February 12, 2010, 04:27:49 PM »
Oh gawd, not this thing again.

I do hope the mods delete this garbage thread.

Thal
Oh you must not judge this thread just by the posting you contributed. But you are wellcome if you ever like to answer more substancial.
best
Steffen

Offline Steffen Fahl

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #168 on: February 12, 2010, 04:42:34 PM »
you were hoping to get people to side with your recordings... and they didn't,
Oh no that is definitly no problem at all. If I count all hits for all pieces on my page together I have had several thousends hits at my page without any advertising at all. Those hits mostly apeared, when I had no time to discuss about the site anywhere. Not a single recording of nearly threehundert which are on the site from the beginning has less than 10 hits. Several have get up to over 70-or 100 hits just in a couple of weeks. So even your Youtube videos of the same time would have not that much audiance that my recordings found without beeing advertised or listed in any searchengine like youtube has. And that the most people posting unobjective things here dont listen to my recordings at all is what I know, meanwhile it does not prevent me to discuss with those who sereously did listen one or the other piece.

so don't even try to give us that "quit yourself if you don't have anything substantial to contribute"...
Why not? ;)


I am asking very kindly for some moderator to lock this bloody thread. Fahl5... so far you haven't contributed anything decent to your own thread, nor have you contributed to any other threads... so how about you take your biased views and your inability to take criticism and bugger off!!!
Why should they judge the thread only by postings like yours?
best
Steffen

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #169 on: February 12, 2010, 04:58:27 PM »
Oh you must not judge this thread just by the posting you contributed. But you are wellcome if you ever like to answer more substancial.

I am not judging it by mine, but by yours. To answer more substancial is a waste of time as several others members have tried and failed to give you honest feedback and to back that up with good reasoning.

You seem to have a particularly hard shell as most people would have "got the message" and left by now.

If you are just seeking positive feedback, this is not the place as members of this forum tend to speak honestly.

I think you should consider leaving. There must be loads more music forums you could spam.

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline pianisten1989

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #170 on: February 12, 2010, 06:44:58 PM »
Fail (I just came up with your new nic)! I hope you trip on the street, and die.

Seriously. READ THE 4 LAST PAGES

We have had arguments about your so called "Muscal genius", we've told you that maybe you should play with some more imagination, that you have a lame sound. And still, after 4 pages, you still doesn't get it! What is wrong with you?!

Offline birba

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #171 on: February 12, 2010, 07:54:24 PM »
I was intrigued with this thread and what fahl5 is trying to convince the world.  If you actually recorded all those works, you certainly have a basic talent at the keyboard.  I only listened to a prelude and fughe from the second book and Waldesrauschen.  I could have sworn I was listening to a piano roll.  Precise, good finger work, but absolutely mechanical.  I don't understand the advantage of playing on a super technical digital piano, anyway.  I, myself, couldn't hear the difference between the bosendorfer sound and the Steinway D.  But I probably don't have that refined an ear.  At any rate, you've made your point, but we could go on bickering about this ad nauseum.
I, myself, am not very impressed.

Offline Steffen Fahl

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #172 on: February 12, 2010, 08:36:37 PM »
I was intrigued with this thread and what fahl5 is trying to convince the world. 
Sorry, but dont overestimate the significance of this "pianostreet" or the few guys, who feel responsible to spam this thread with respectless and uninformed prejudices.
"The World"  is even when it comes to the musical world, quite a bit more and I have no need to convince anyone of this tiny comunity with anything.

If you actually recorded all those works, you certainly have a basic talent at the keyboard. 
Wow, in relation to others here that neither played nor record just a bit of the pieces on my site, that nearly sounds like a compliment. But sorry, I dont even have need for general judgement however they will sound like. This is just to much to different music on my site that any general judgement could mean anything at all.

I only listened to a prelude and fughe from the second book and Waldesrauschen.  I could have sworn I was listening to a piano roll. 

I don’t know how much you know about pianorolls, but since there are quite interesting pianorolls of very wellknown historical Pianists an Composers like Albeniz, Mahler, Backhaus, Godowsky, Busoni, Dohnanyi etc. this is a very charming comparison.

Precise, good finger work, but absolutely mechanical. 

With this judgement you show that you havent read the thread really, since it is not that far away, that another posting criticised the alledged “rubato” and lack of refinement of my Bach. This would be quite a hard work to programm, if I would have started from a just mechanical reproduction of the notes.
I don't understand the advantage of playing on a super technical digital piano, anyway.  I, myself, couldn't hear the difference between the bosendorfer sound and the Steinway D.  But I probably don't have that refined an ear. 
OK that honest. So you must not be convinced by things you cant hear.
At any rate, you've made your point, but we could go on bickering about this ad nauseum. I, myself, am not very impressed.
I consent absolutly, since I never had the intention to bicker anyway, the thread would have been much shorter, if just those would have written, who at least listened one pice seriuosly and just answered seriously and concrete what one can hear.
It is just a pitty, that so many things so many people posted hear just proofed to be just not true. And I was never bicker at all, but just showed the scores, or compared recordings to proof what was said, to finally understand more precisely what might be critizised. And everybody might check the whole thread, there was not a single critic, which I did not handle with respect, concret arguments and proofs, as you might also see in my answer on the statement about my WTC II G#-minor recording. If I found a critic was true I have no problem to consent. But if not I have no problem to confute. If you think that would be “bickering” I wonder how you might discuss anything.
Best
Steffen

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #173 on: February 12, 2010, 09:02:43 PM »
Sorry, but dont overestimate the significance of this "pianostreet" or the few guys, who feel responsible to spam this thread with respectless and uninformed prejudices.
"The World"  is even when it comes to the musical world, quite a bit more and I have no need to convince anyone of this tiny comunity with anything.

If we are tiny, respectless and uninformed, why grace us with your presence?

If you have no need to convince, why continue to try?

If you don't like it here, you know where the door is.

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline ramseytheii

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #174 on: February 13, 2010, 05:18:04 AM »
Can someone summarize what is going on here for me?  I don't have the patience to read 4 pages of tra-la-la-ing back and forth.

Walter Ramsey



Offline ramseytheii

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Pianosamplelibrarieproducer

Is this word more elegantly expressed in German (I hope)?


Walter Ramsey



Offline Steffen Fahl

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Is this word more elegantly expressed in German (I hope)?
Walter Ramsey
Hi Walter,
Sorry, but this word does'nt summarize anything of this thread. I neither produce any samplelibrarie nor have any part of producing any other samplelibrarie.

It is just that I informed this forum, that I have launched a new website with the recordings of mostly keyboard music of the last 400 Years which I made the last ca. 7 Years. Nothing more and and nothing less than that.

And the pure fact, that I used several samplelibraries for my recordings caused an endless mess of musical sensless prejudices, which are easily proofed to be nonsens. But that seem to be hard to accept for some more ideological motivatet participants here.

So easily listen open minded if you are interrested, comment if you have heard something you want to discuss and you are wellcome.
best
Steffen

Offline Steffen Fahl

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #177 on: February 13, 2010, 05:53:14 AM »
If we are tiny, respectless and uninformed, why grace us with your presence?
I dont grace narrowminded people like you who didnt show any kind of musical interest in nearly any post of this thread, but the musical interested public, that might come along in a piano-forum.

If you have no need to convince, why continue to try?
I just like to share what I have worked on the last years. correcting nonsens is not the same as "trying to convince". I really wonder how persistent some people, which are obviously not at all musical interested in the music I share, post here one stupid thing after the other. To avoid missunderstanding I have to correct it.

If you don't like it here, you know where the door is.
Not to like people who post without any musical interest in this thread, does not mean that I dont like to share what I have done. And if you think that people like you would be the only that might read this here, than pianostreet would be really a tiny and insignificant site. But if you seriously followed this thread you would percieve that both things are defenitly not the case.  

best Steffen

Offline prongated

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #178 on: February 13, 2010, 06:59:14 AM »
Oh gawd, not this thing again.

I do hope the mods delete this garbage thread.

Thal

At least you don't have to eat your own words here ;D

Award winning programme does not have quit button.

Anyway, perhaps one last post from my part in this thread?

Hi, sorry for answering so late, but sometimes there is just more important work to do and I didn’t want to answersuperficially.http://sf-media.12hp.de/images/Bar17-20.jpg
This is the “Urtext” perhaps you should check your Edition

I use a Hungarian edition, Japanese edition (Zen-On), as well as the Henle, which is by no means authoritative, although it claims to be. Nonetheless, whether it is from IMSLP or any of the scores I mentioned, those turns are exactly as I mentioned - top note of the turn on bar 18 is to E natural, not E sharp, and bottom note of the turn on bar 19 is C double-sharp, not C sharp!

That's true I slowed down there since the piano Bar 3 and forte in the score indicates something like a dualistic situation, one can't mark just by the use of different keyvelocities of the modern grandpiano. For Bach it would be probable, that he suggested to use a different register of the Cembalo when he wrotes dynamics like this (which is quite seldom the case as you probably know). We cant do that registerchange on a grandpiano. So I decided to underline the difference with means of agogic.

Maybe, but since we're performing on the modern grand piano - as it were - we have other means available at our disposal to reflect this change. For example, change the tone colour - make it lighter. You are not necessarily wrong, but I'm just suggesting there are other possibilities out there ;)

Yes, I like it since the left hand is in this prelude (quite unlikly for Bach) really nothing else but just harmonic accompagnement, with out nearly any thematical substance.

I agree that it should be harmonic accompaniment, but yours is not enough to support the thematic substance in the right hand! I agree that it should be soft, but yours is barely audible at times.

I have checked it and found it true for three “slurs” (If I understand right what you mean. But that means I found it not true for all others which are by far “the most”.

Just to be sure, the phrases that I talked about have 3 notes. The last 2 notes are slurred. And I'm saying that you tend to accent the last slurred note (i.e. 3rd note in the phrase), instead of the first slurred note (i.e. 2nd note in the phrase).

1)   8-11 is not apt to a linear decrescendo, since it is a sequenced twobarphrase, I decided to let the dynamics also follow the phrase. But the second one is in fact more piano than the first.
2)   I also disagree your Idea, Bar 11-15 should perform a linear crescendo since this would mean a crescendo which would be interrupted since the passage ends in bar 15. So I think it would be more reasonable to give bar 14-15 even a bit decrescendo.

1) Your idea sounds good. To be sure, of course I don't necessarily imply that the decrescendo should be linear, although that is how I personally executed it.
2) Sure, but I wouldn't decrescendo until I reach the cadence (b-flat major). Before that, the circle of 5ths progression really builds up quite a lot of tension.

Sorry, I really cant hear any “pedantic rubato” at all. Could you help me with any certain bar, which make obvious what you are talking about?

...basically I'm referring to all the occassions when you slightly distort the rhythm. If I remember correctly, it usually tends to happen at the end of some 4-bar phrase, at least in the first page. In other words, check out bars 4, 8, 12...

I may have overreacted before - or maybe your rubato is that much - but for me, one of the great things about this fugue is the unending, continuous flowing voices/phrases. I'd aim to convey this through beautiful sound and careful dynamic planning. Any rubato will only disturb this beautiful stream of voices.

Again, you are not necessarily wrong to put rubatos in, but in cases like this, you need to ask yourself whether it is really the most effective way to convey what you have in mind. You answer this question by experimenting with all the different possibilities - tone, dynamics, phrasing, time...

Let me thank you once more for your most precise, reasonable and musical understanding critics. Take the question in the right way. I don’t pretend any wonder or miracle, but I just like to show that it might be possible to make musical reasonable use of modern technical means. Musical reasonable does not mean that all I hve done with it would be above all discussion, but I know what I have done deserves at least the respect to argue reasonable, as everybody else here around expects for his own musical contributions. Your critics seem to me one of the most reasonable[.] nothing more but also nothing less is what I expect from people who post in this thread. Is this such a monsterous expectation?
Best
Steffen

To be fair, there is probably some misunderstanding, inciting emotion and ego/pride. And then it becomes a vicious cycle...as a result, the thread developed into constant ad hominem attacks. So...usually it's best to just...chill...8)

And remember that there are members here that commend what you have done (myself included), and a few that think it absolutely worthwhile.

Offline pianisten1989

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #179 on: February 13, 2010, 07:02:42 AM »
This is the thing!

You said you'd listen if we'd tell you out oppinion. Now we did, and you really don't listen to anything. All you say is (more or less) "You are idiots who doesn't understand my musical genius". And don't say you don't, cause we all know you do. Just... Why do you bother to keep trying? Obviously we don't really like your music, and we've explained why, and all you do is calling us idiots. Can't you just find an other forum who are more into those midi-things of yours, than we are?

And you always complain about this forum anyways.
Have you even looked at any other thread than this one?

Offline birba

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #180 on: February 13, 2010, 07:22:50 AM »
your english is really very good, considering it's not your mother tongue.  just one thing that you always say: to prove, proved, proved  the noun is proof

Offline Steffen Fahl

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #181 on: February 13, 2010, 09:26:14 AM »
your english is really very good, considering it's not your mother tongue.  just one thing that you always say: to prove, proved, proved  the noun is proof

Thank you as well for the polite compliment, as for the correction. This might help me a bit using your language better.
best
Steffen

Offline Steffen Fahl

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #182 on: February 13, 2010, 09:38:44 AM »
This is the thing!

You said you'd listen if we'd tell you out oppinion. Now we did, and you really don't listen to anything. All you say is (more or less) "You are idiots who doesn't understand my musical genius". And don't say you don't, cause we all know you do.
It it were so, why dont you just prove that. As far as I searched the whole thread I never said anything like those words you pretend I was saying more or less. You just have to read this page, to learn just the opposite, that I am happy and thankful for criticisme which I found that was true.

Just... Why do you bother to keep trying? Obviously we don't really like your music, and we've explained why, and all you do is calling us idiots. Can't you just find an other forum who are more into those midi-things of yours, than we are?
Who ever did you mean to pretend should be "we" or "us". I read different postings of quite different presonalities saying quite different things. The only thing what might bother a bit are uninformed postings tending to overgeneralize judgement on a minimal or non existant base of knowledge. I wont mind, if those people would not post here, but if so I do react as reasonable as I do with everybody else, discussing, what might be discutable and indicating, what I just cant understand and giving the reasons why I cant understand.

And you always complain about this forum anyways.
Have you even looked at any other thread than this one?
Oh of course, and if you would have done so yourself, you would have read several of my entries in other threads, meanwhile I am not that long member here and have really also something else to do.

best
Steffen

Offline pianisten1989

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #183 on: February 13, 2010, 10:04:55 AM »
I try to read your post, I really do, but all I see is: "I'm a tool, I'm annoying, I'M BETTER THAN GOOD!!!, Plz use me, Why don't you like me?" I just don't understand why. And i hear some wierd noise everytime you write something. Is that just me? =/

Offline Steffen Fahl

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #184 on: February 13, 2010, 10:52:41 AM »
I use a Hungarian edition, Japanese edition (Zen-On), as well as the Henle, which is by no means authoritative, although it claims to be. Nonetheless, whether it is from IMSLP or any of the scores I mentioned, those turns are exactly as I mentioned - top note of the turn on bar 18 is to E natural, not E sharp, and bottom note of the turn on bar 19 is C double-sharp, not C sharp!
This was obviously a languageproblem on my side because that I didn’t get the musical english wording of “turn” right, so I looked once more if ever I found an “e” at all in bar 18 and a C double-sharp in bar 19 and…. You were right. Yes both are wrong on my recording. Thanks for the hint.
Just to be sure, the phrases that I talked about have 3 notes. The last 2 notes are slurred. And I'm saying that you tend to accent the last slurred note (i.e. 3rd note in the phrase), instead of the first slurred note (i.e. 2nd note in the phrase).
Here I think I still have a languageproblem first I thaught you are talking about what we call an “Vorhalt” in german what means a dissonance on a strong beat dissolved on the next. Now it seems to me you might talk about figures of demisemiquavers. I relistend on them again, but couldn’t really find what you are talking about as far they are mostly followed by an semiquaver, which deserves and was more pronounced than the faster notes before, meanwhile the accent on the first of the whole group appeared to me still clear enuogh. But presumably I still did get right what you mean.

1) Your idea sounds good. To be sure, of course I don't necessarily imply that the decrescendo should be linear, although that is how I personally executed it.
2) Sure, but I wouldn't decrescendo until I reach the cadence (b-flat major). Before that, the circle of 5ths progression really builds up quite a lot of tension.
I neither stated, your conception was wrong nor my realization would be the most appropriate way to play my understanding. Indeed I think the 2 barmotive is as well for the more decrescending aswell as for the more crescending part worth to outline, what must not at all contradict your general dynamic Idea of this passage. I like it to discuss it like this, because it makes me more cautious to keep both enough in mind, when I will find some time to spend some more work in my WTC.

I may have overreacted before - or maybe your rubato is that much - but for me, one of the great things about this fugue is the unending, continuous flowing voices/phrases. I'd aim to convey this through beautiful sound and careful dynamic planning. Any rubato will only disturb this beautiful stream of voices.
In my ears it indeed seem to me that our principal Idea of a gentle but steady flow of this certain fugue seems to be much closer, than our listening. If you hear disturbing rubati, I cant dispute it, since this is what you hear. But honestly I didn’t hear them as disturbing as you did moreover what I hear is the attempt to slightly strengthen the motivic substance by giving them a more speaking artikulation with holding the flow with a more homogenous colour, because finaly this is not a prelude but a fugue, so in my humble opinion one must mark the motivic substance at least a bit to show the polyphony.
To be fair, there is probably some misunderstanding, inciting emotion and ego/pride. And then it becomes a vicious cycle...as a result, the thread developed into constant ad hominem attacks. So...usually it's best to just...chill...8)
Oh caused by some other work to be done I was forced to chill in respect to any forum posting  for the whole last month, I did regret this namely since your comments on the Bach prel+fugue deserved a better response than just diving away.
And remember that there are members here that commend what you have done (myself included), and a few that think it absolutely worthwhile.
Thank you not only for thoses kind words, but also for your serious critical comments.
Best
Steffen

Offline Steffen Fahl

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #185 on: February 13, 2010, 11:01:37 AM »
I try to read your post, I really do, but all I see is: "I'm a tool, I'm annoying, I'M BETTER THAN GOOD!!!, Plz use me, Why don't you like me?" I just don't understand why. And i hear some wierd noise everytime you write something. Is that just me? =/

Sorry where the hell did you read such awful nonsens. Could you name me at least one single line I have posted in this whole thread, which might justify talking such weird things about me.
So i fear the question has to be put the other way round: what did you want here posting such sensless things without any proof at all?
Are you plagued by any kind of inferiority feelings you are trying to abreact or what is your problem?

What the hell did you think ever should anyone "use" discussing in this thread. And if it comes to people who dont know what they are talking about, I would prefer, that they dont like me so much, that they might stop spamming here.

If you realy tried to read my posts you would read nothing else than "hey guys here is a new website with alot of pianomusic recorded on sampled pianos, if you listened some recordings let me know what you think about. I will try to understand it relating to the concrete music you are talking about."
What's the Problem with that?

Offline pianowolfi

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Is this word more elegantly expressed in German (I hope)?


Walter Ramsey




Hee hee, German is full of such words, actually.   ;D

Offline Steffen Fahl

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Hee hee, German is full of such words, actually.   ;D
Yes thats true. But that doesn't change anything of the fact, that I am not at all a producer of Pianosamples. My profession is teacher in German and Biology at a (prep)Highschool, as you would call it presumably in english. I dont have any mercantile interest in this musicpage at all. It is just the result of a very long and intensiv occupation with music and pianomusic especially over my lifetime I just want to share. It is not my fault, that several - even one another competing - producers of samplelibraries use some of my recordings as demo for their samplesets. But it is not all my proffesion or businessconcept or anything like that, which I even are not at all allowed to since teachers are paid by the state in germany.
Was that clear enough?
If not check all the related Websites you can reach via the steffen-fahl.de Link in the navigation bar of my musicsite.

Offline pianisten1989

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #188 on: February 13, 2010, 11:32:35 AM »
Okey, last time. I think your recordings are crap. There are no musical ideas, no tone quality,  and no imagination what-so-ever.
And that's not it. Even though almost everyone in this thread says the same thing, you still doesn't listen to any of it.
You are an arrogant, bragging, self-centerd idiot with God-complex.

That's what I think. Happy?

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #189 on: February 13, 2010, 11:33:14 AM »


ROUND 1   FIGHT!!!!
"The biggest risk in life is to take no risk at all."
www.facebook.com/groups/348933611793249/

Offline Steffen Fahl

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #190 on: February 13, 2010, 12:48:41 PM »
Okey, last time. I think your recordings are crap. There are no musical ideas, no tone quality,  and no imagination what-so-ever.
And that's not it. Even though almost everyone in this thread says the same thing, you still doesn't listen to any of it.
You are an arrogant, bragging, self-centerd idiot with God-complex.

That's what I think. Happy?

1) OK, that mean even if I ask you to prove your written impudences with a single line, you failed to do. Than it is quite consequent:
2) Great ! the last time you spam here things like that! Please be consequent and let this really be the very last time you say something that unprezise, overgeneralized and unfounded like that.
If you really keep what you promise here. I'll be more than happy.
best
Steffen

Offline Steffen Fahl

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #191 on: February 13, 2010, 01:04:06 PM »


ROUND 1   FIGHT!!!!
OOps there seem to be a little problem with the uploadserver for the jpg's. Never mind, Here are some better links (by the way, dont say "fight", just say "fact" Nr.1):
1) lostinidlewonders automatic sorabji-midi



2) my played haydn-midi


I think everybody can see who if ever is to blame for robotic recordings here and who not!

best
Steffen

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #192 on: February 13, 2010, 04:25:45 PM »
Award winning programme is very persistent, but award winning programme is now very tiresome.

Suggest award winning programme bugger off and spam another site where award winning programme might be better received.

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline Steffen Fahl

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #193 on: February 13, 2010, 05:03:12 PM »
Award winning programme is very persistent, but award winning programme is now very tiresome.

Suggest award winning programme bugger off and spam another site where award winning programme might be better received.

Thal

By the way how do you like lostindlewonders most musical interpreted sorabji.
Is this the way to play piano you would prefere. Or are you not at all ready for any serious musical argument than please "spam another site". Since, if you are not interested at all in this thread but persistantly go on posting nonsens here, than you are just the one who spam.

Steffen

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #194 on: February 13, 2010, 05:30:19 PM »
99% of your posts have been in this thread that you created yourself in order to promote your own work. When you start to enlighten us with your knoweldge in other parts of the forum, i will accept that you are not a spammer.

Since you appear to be immune to any criticism and would undoubtedly defend your stance to the death, despite evidence to the contrary, i cannot see the value of any future contributions from you.

You seem to be a "one subject" poster, so i can only repeat my suggestion that you take your award winning programme and bore someone else to death with it.

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline Steffen Fahl

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #195 on: February 13, 2010, 06:16:03 PM »
99% of your posts have been in this thread that you created yourself in order to promote your own work. When you start to enlighten us with your knoweldge in other parts of the forum, i will accept that you are not a spammer.
Oh my God, is this mediocre suspicion trivial!

Could you please show me anywhere on my site where I have anything to sell or to promote!
Haven't I more than once pointed out and proved, that music is nothing else but my personal interest and my site nothing else but the result of it?

How stubborn must one be to keep up such silly suspicions after month of discussion without the least proof for your impertinent and obsessive allegation I would have any Product to promote. (Ask the companies that make use of my recordings, they even are hard competitors like EastWest in California and Vienna Symphonic Library (Vienna)) To remind you Hamburg is neither California, nor Massachusets, nor Karlsruhe nor Vienna. And it is not me nor anything of me that was said to be award winning, but some products of those different companies. Or why should i publish on my site hunderts of recordings on a sampleset from Post Musical Instruments which doestn't exist any longer since years. How irrational narrow minded must one bee, to justify all your destructive behavior with such a silly allegation.

Fell free to surf all around my websites and you will find everything is just as I said it and said it before. OK you want some other posts, meanwhile I started here not so much more than a month ago and was already absent for more than a month you will find other postings If you look for. But be sure I wont spam around nonsens postings as many here in this thread. It is up to you to prove that you have any serious interest and dont just follow the mean interest to arbitrarily slam new participants without reason.

I myself dont promote anything but am looking for serious discussion. And if you have eyes and the mind to read you would have perceived it that I try to answer carefully and well reflected. And that I have no problems to admit things that could be proved to be worth to critizise. All this is what You and some other participants only proved constantly not to have. If anyone have to prove anything here, than it is you, that you are at least able to anything else but unreflected silly allegations and fanciless monotonous mediocre groaneries.

Steffen

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #196 on: February 13, 2010, 07:28:05 PM »
I have met some obnoxious newbies on here, but you exceed the lot of them.

You have spammed this forum with your horseshit realisations and you have had your "serious" discussions, but you do not appear to have properly taken on board some of the criticisms. Instead, you try to belittle the knowledge of some posters here, just because they don't tell you how fantastic your work is.

Now, why don't you spend some time with some of the thousands of people who have visited your site and the companies who make use of your "recordings". It is obviously so popular, I do not know how you manage to answer all of the congratulations e mails you must receive.

There are many other music forums who may not have heard of Award Winning Programme, so you might want to start plastering your link all over them.

Good luck.

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline Steffen Fahl

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #197 on: February 13, 2010, 08:10:23 PM »
I have met some obnoxious newbies on here, but you exceed the lot of them.

You have spammed this forum with your horseshit realisations and you have had your "serious" discussions, but you do not appear to have properly taken on board some of the criticisms.
Where have you ever made the least attempt of serious criticisme that reached a higher level of seriosity than the kind of generalized overall condemnations in lowest colloquial as you just show again in this very posting?
Instead, you try to belittle the knowledge of some posters here, just because they don't tell you how fantastic your work is.
No only if they pretended things that are in direct contradiction to the score as it were the case with the comments about the Liszt-Wilde Jagd. But that does not mean that my work was not as worth of critic as everymans work will be.

Now, why don't you spend some time with some of the thousands of people who have visited your site and the companies who make use of your "recordings". It is obviously so popular, I do not know how you manage to answer all of the congratulations e mails you must receive.

There are many other music forums who may not have heard of Award Winning Programme, so you might want to start plastering your link all over them.

Good luck.

Thal

So much feelings so less reason, what a helpless person must that be who talks like that. I beg you once more please prove what you say otherwise hold it back. Post here if you are interested and if not keep away. But constantly telling things that are confutable makes it more and more obvious, that you dont post because of any musical interest, but just because you have to abreact anything, what you obviously cant control yourself. For every pretentions you posted here I constantly asked for any proof. You were never able to give one. Moreover everything you state here arbitrarily could be confuted. And if it is neccessary I have no problems to do.
I have allready reported your last respectless postings to the moderators and will go on if you will not stopp spamming this thread in this destructiv and unobjective way.
So start thinking who you are, and what you are doing here before posting more like you did before.
Steffen
By the way, since I had alredy more than once shared my musical opinions in other threads. Now it is up to you to accept. I wonder if you are able to hold what you just have promised two posts before?

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #198 on: February 13, 2010, 08:29:24 PM »

I have allready reported your last respectless postings to the moderators and will go on if you will not stopp spamming this thread in this destructiv and unobjective way.

How pathethic, you are like a child who has run to his mummy. Report as much as you want to, it is you who is the quack with the cheap bag of tricks, and it is you who is the spammer.

I don't see why you are asking me for proof. Proof of what? I am not the only one who has criticised your cheap realisations and the proof is clearly in the listening. There is no more proof required than that, so stop acting like a spoiled child and spend more time improving your work instead of pathetic attempts to defend it here.

REPORT THAT

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline Steffen Fahl

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Re: New website with complete Bach WTP II, Haydn Sonatas, Liszt Studies etc.
«Reply #199 on: February 13, 2010, 09:30:21 PM »
How pathethic, you are like a child who has run to his mummy. Report as much as you want to, it is you who is the quack with the cheap bag of tricks, and it is you who is the spammer.
It is up to the moderators of this forum if they like to be titled as "mummies" as you did with that posting.
I don't see why you are asking me for proof. Proof of what?

To proof just all that unpleasant assumptions you did in this thread. If youself even cant remember anything provable, why did you than just abreact yourself in this thread so corybantic?

I am not the only one who has criticised your cheap realisations and the proof is clearly in the listening.
If you would have listened to anything I a) would have observed it, since there were no hits in any piece if ever you have mentioned any certain one which was b) at least very seldom if it ever occured at all in this thread. So the only thing that is cheap is your attemp to slam others without any concrete named reason. And the fact that there were óthers also not listening before attacing globaly is neither a proof nor an argument.
There is no more proof required than that, so stop acting like a spoiled child and spend more time improving your work instead of pathetic attempts to defend it here.

REPORT THAT
Already done.
Steffen