Is there no mercy?

[rachfan]

As I write this, 40% of Page 1 of Audition Room is monopolized by just two (2) controversial members. One posts sight-read recordings and the other mostly computerized midi recordings. I can understand that they probably should have a reasonable amount of space there, although I thought that submissions were generally to be practiced pieces with reasonably good recorded sound quality, preferably on acoustic pianos in fairly good tune. Monopolizing prematurely forces artistic piano performances off the page, unfortunately, far earlier than would otherwise be the case. Shakespeare said that "The quality of mercy is not strained".  Where there has been no moderator intervention in this situation, now I truly wonder about that assertion!

[lostinidlewonder]

Maybe because of gold membership it allows them to plague us  

[rachfan]

While Gold Membership allows members to access additional features of the website, I don't believe the intent is to eliminate fairness and equity in other aspects of membership, or to the disadvantage of the Silver Members.

[lostinidlewonder]

I agree. But when a poster acts as if they are being sincere with their posts and casts doubt on whether they are or not, the forum as a whole has to take their word for it because of the intense political correctness of this 21st century. Hopefully they remain with zero replies and eventually they will go away.....  It reminds me of that Simpsons episode where they sing that song "just dont look" and the advertising giant monsters die. Maybe that will work?

[rachfan]

Taking up that much space on the page amounts to a blatant, discourteous lack of consideration for all the other members there, pure and simple.  There is no excusing it.  When it comes to political correctness, I believe instead in honesty and frankness, which can still be polite, friendly, and professional--but plain talk nonetheless.  To ignore transgressions is to do a disservice to those who lack consideration for others.  I think that this misguided propensity for constantly walking around on egg shells is destructive to authentic communication, which in turn is tearing the fabric of society as we see with this very example at hand here.  The approach of ignoring, avoiding, and glossing over only encourages more of the same behaviors. In my opinion we need to get real and address what needs to be addressed.  But I do grant that in some cultures there might be a hesitancy to embrace that principle.

[mistermoe]

I'm absolutely with rachfan here.
Lately i'm rarely looking into the audition room, because the immense number of sight-reading threads by that one member just bore me so much. It really gets me in a bad mood. Sadly i sure miss some interesting recordings.

just a little quote from the "instructiones and rules" of the audition room:

Rules and guide lines:

• The performance should reflect a, for the piece in question, reasonable level of musical and technical quality.
• Recordings of acoustic piano are strongly prefered above recordings of digital piano.

Funny story:

I myself am hesitating if i should post any of my recordings here for a long time already. I'm studying the piano and it seems that i'm not playing that bad. Lately i have done some concerts with some really great (and also pretty famous) musicians which seem to like my playing. I would like post my recordings but i don't dare to. Probably because of my missing self-confidence. On the other hand you have this overly narcissistic guy posting one load of crap after another.
Really depressing...

[stevebob]

Tolerance for the situation in question (which is really tacit approval) is another self-reinforcing symptom—and, in turn, a cause—of the decline of this forum generally.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

It might be worthwhile having a sub-forum for non-acoustic piano recordings. At least the midi-edited recordings are properly prepared. The sight-read recordings are not just bad piano-playing, they are bad sight-reading! If I had anything to do with it they would all get deleted and if necessary the member would be banned for persistent infringement of posting guidelines.

[Bob]

I'm not opposed to what I've heard from Fahl.  I'm kind of impressed and interested to see what is possible in that area.  But yes, maybe a different board for them.  As long as they're identified as being sequenced I'm not upset over it.  I'd take that over sight-reading for sure, at least from what I've heard.

[pianowolfi]

It might be worthwhile having a sub-forum for non-acoustic piano recordings. At least the midi-edited recordings are properly prepared. The sight-read recordings are not just bad piano-playing, they are bad sight-reading! If I had anything to do with it they would all get deleted and if necessary the member would be banned for persistent infringement of posting guidelines.

Seconded And I second especially the second statement, for "pedagogical reasons", because to me it's obvious that this person could do much better if he was serious about it!

[thalbergmad]

A seperate thread for one and a different forum altogether for the other would be my suggestion.

Thal

[pianist1976]

Completely agree with Rachfan. Audition room is so much abused these days. I don't care about the strange delusion problems this SCP can have but I think that it's a mockery to use the Aud. Room to make therapy. I also find it disrespectful to the forum members who took their time and effort to prepare seriously their pieces. There's something that makes this disrespect even greater and it's the superiority pose he uses against people who takes the piano more seriously than him.

About the midis, I'd not be too much bothered if they were one or two, as a matter of interest, but I think that this member has also abused and now there are just too many threads. I agree that maybe a separate midi forum could be a good idea. Although I have nothing against this kind of midi experiments, I think that they can't have the same value as the acoustic recordings with real pianos. In my opinion they are not in the same league so in my opinion it's a good idea to separate them. (I edited the message and cut some unnecessary paragraphs).

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I recommend listening to SCP and anafressari's recordings simultaneously as an unpleasant experiment in aleatory music.

[lostinidlewonder]

I am really pleased to see that some of the rubbish in the Audition room has been removed. A step forward.

[goldentone]

Yes, Scp's posts are gone.

[rachfan]

Yes, progress is being made, and I'm grateful for that!  I'm hoping that some other section can be found or created for fahl's midi recordings (and potentially those of others).  It's wonderful that pianists are regaining Audition Room. 

[Bob]

I wouldn't mind having the MIDI stuff available.  I think it's interesting that that is even possible.

[pianisten1989]

Seriously! Nilsjohan, PLEASE, delete his account! S_C_P has been breaking the rules of this forum like 500 times! And he's doing nothing but ruining this website for everyone else...

[stevebob]

Seriously! Nilsjohan, PLEASE, delete his account! S_C_P has been breaking the rules of this forum like 500 times! And he's doing nothing but ruining this website for everyone else...

He's back ... and posting recordings (and typically bizarre blurbs about them) anew.  I guess he couldn't take the hint.

[thalbergmad]

That is 4 x fahl and 2 x slow concert pianist in less than one day and only one of them has any comments at all.

If everyone simply ignores the postings and makes no comment, eventually one would hope they will stop.

However, recent history dicatates otherwise, so i hope the boss cleans up the audition room. There is no other word but spam to describe these posts.

Thal

[pianisten1989]

That is 4 x fahl and 2 x slow concert pianist in less than one day and only one of them has any comments at all.

If everyone simply ignores the postings and makes no comment, eventually one would hope they will stop.

Well, obviously they wont stop. We've ignoring slow quite a lot in his latest attempts, but he keeps posting. And it's clearly a violation against the rules, so there is no reason Not to delete their accounts.

[ramseytheii]

The best thing to do is two-pronged: ignore the junk, and praise the rest.  Keep the good recordings by well-meaning people who actually love the piano at the top of the page.  I;ve been bad about it lately, but will get back to it.

Walter Ramsey

[Bob]

I like the idea of a separate child board.  Acoustic piano, improv, and "other."

[rachfan]

Hi Bob,

If you go to the main Piano Forum listing, you'll note that under Audition Room, Improvisations already has its own dedicated subforum.  Perhaps you have not visited there yet.  

Acoustic piano recordings have been and continue to be the mainstay of Audition Room in line with the existing guidelines.  So why would we want to put acoustic piano into a Child Forum? I don't get it. Did you instead mean e-piano recordings?

As for "other", I would agree that midi files should either go to a new subforum or falh's recordings which as of today take up 29% of Page 1 in Audition Room (which is outrageously inconsiderate), should be consolidated into one thread.  I would opt for the former to be proactive, as other midi posters will surely be posting in the future. 

David

[Bob]

Yes, just having them split up.  Acoustic piano as the main board.  Then improv and 'other' as child boards.

I'm just curious about the MIDI stuff, whether it sounds human or not and whether it's a good interpretation or not.

[thalbergmad]

I'm just curious about the MIDI stuff, whether it sounds human or not and whether it's a good interpretation or not.

Look up the episode of Star Trek where 7 of 9 plays the piano. You will then see that even the Borg are superior.

Thal

[rachfan]

Actually they were playing Ham-Borg Steinway pianos.   

David

[goldentone]

There is nothing of Scp in the audition room now.  But Fahl needs to go too.

[stevebob]

There is nothing of Scp in the audition room now.  But Fahl needs to go too.

I think a distinction can and should be made between the two members.  (They need to go to different places.  )

I found no redeeming qualities in s_c_p's playing; his belligerence and delusions were equally unpalatable, in my opinion.

What Fahl is doing, on the other hand, seems inherently interesting and valuable, though I agree it doesn't belong in the same subforum as real-time recordings on acoustic piano.

[pianisten1989]

And what fahl is doing is still agains the rules...

[rachfan]

Agreed!

[pianowolfi]

And what fahl is doing is still agains the rules...

Except his few really interesting and good acoustic recordings!

[pianisten1989]

Well, he's still violated the rules at least 15 times, plus the ones he posted a long time ago. You can't really make that up with posting 2 or 3 normal ones...

Either you have rules and follow them, or you don't.

[furtwaengler]

As for "other", I would agree that midi files should either go to a new subforum or falh's recordings which as of today take up 29% of Page 1 in Audition Room (which is outrageously inconsiderate), should be consolidated into one thread.  I would opt for the former to be proactive, as other midi posters will surely be posting in the future. 

David

What other midi posters? And Fahl has his own website which he has promoted on this forum (though it didn't initially receive the best reception)...a simple link in his signature should suffice shouldn't it? (if it's his intention to contribute...you can't force feedback). At least I could suggest those interested in access to his midi bookmark his site! I see no logical reason to create a new sister board for the sake of one member who already has his own website. I could understand a composition board using such a medium as it's hard to get ensemble readings...but even then the vast majority of serious conductors I know do not waste their time with midi files of new music...they go straight to the score. How much less time is there for midi files of music already available in a long history of actual performance practice and recording? Sigh...

I'd say the issues brought up in this thread are serious even if all the problem threads in the audition room are ignored. They still take up the space and push serious efforts (actual hands on a real piano) deserving serious feedback out of site, and they still diminish interest in the audition room (my favorite part of the site), preventing feedback from people who would otherwise enjoy and find great benefit from the board.  

Ah well, I know this is a couple of days old. It's a healthful vent.  

[ramseytheii]

They still take up the space and push serious efforts (actual hands on a real piano) deserving serious feedback out of site, and they still diminish interest in the audition room

There were at least 13 unique responses to this post, if all those people responded to real, serious-effort recordings in the audition room, there would be no need to complain about wasted space.  It would just disappear.

Walter Ramsey

[rachfan]

I have seen a couple other midi posters at piano sites in the past (fortunately they didn't land here!).  furtwaengler makes some very persuasive arguments.  Regarding his suggestion, if we were to entirely delete fahl's postings, rather than consolidating them into one thread or creating a midi subforum, then we need to look beyond fahl and write into the Audition Forum rules that midi files are banned.  That way we would address the matter definitively going forward.

[rachfan]

Hi Walter,

In your comments, you point out a real irony.  But changing behaviors is extremely difficult.  Many people, for example, seeing it as a challenge to persuade, were responding to s-c-p's rubbish postings despite the futility of doing so, right up to the point they were deleted.  I believe that self-restraint is a wonderful thing as long as 100% of those involved can be counted on to exercise it.  Unfortunately, that's rarely the case.

[stevebob]

There were at least 13 unique responses to this post, if all those people responded to real, serious-effort recordings in the audition room, there would be no need to complain about wasted space.  It would just disappear.

Walter Ramsey

Even though your point is true, I think that's comparing apples and oranges.  Responding to real, serious-effort recordings requires a real and serious effort at listening and critiquing.  Having and voicing an opinion about a policy matter ... not so much.

[thalbergmad]

We're off again

[stevebob]

And that’s okay.

I still believe that listening critically, thinking critically and writing critically require a modicum of time, skill and effort.

Having an opinion doesn't necessitate any of those (perhaps unfortunately).

p.s.  I just noticed who's back with a couple of new posts in the Audition Room. 

[thalbergmad]

p.s.  I just noticed who's back with a couple of new posts in the Audition Room. 

That was what i was referring to.

Thal

[pianowolfi]

So no, no mercy.

[pianist1976]

I just listened to that Wilde Jagd. Don't ask me why I did but I recalled that when I was a student, I spent many months in bringing that piece into a half-decent standard. It took a huge effort from me.

What this guy is doing with his semi-sightread bunch of crap is laughing out loud on our faces (maybe in an unconscious way, not in a voluntary way but the final result is that he's doing it).

[rachfan]

Hi pianist1976

You have to treat s-c-p's "music" like the Greek mythological figure of the Medusa--the woman with the body of a snake and with snakes in her hair.  If you look directly at her, she'll turn you into stone.  Similarly if you listen to s-c-p's "music", it could make you tone deaf!  Beware! 

[perfect_pitch]

Similarly if you listen to s-c-p's "music", it could make you tone deaf!  Beware! 

Are you kidding me?? I personally go into hysterics after listening to that drivel... It's like Charlie Chaplin in the olden days always falling, tripping, injurying himself...

Except now we have what sounds like a moron with Parkinsons, and about as much sense of time as I have the ability to respond politely to these wankers.

But personally, I would be happier not to ever see another thread by scp AGAIN!!!!

[scottmcc]

this thread saddens me, and I think that at least part of the reason that excellent members such as Marik left this site is found within its contents above. 

the audition room is always going to have variable quality, as there is nothing to prohibit someone from posting a poor performance.  however, the way of ensuring maximum quality is not as clear as it would seem on first glance, as is evident by the continued torrent of posts by slow-concert-pianist. 

I must say though, part of what irks me so much about him is that he has in some regards more skill than I.  It would take me years to fight my way badly through some of the repertoire he presents.  The difference is, I at least have some kind of concept of my limits, as well as of how I sound, and I choose to not record my practice sessions.  I would love to be able to digest hundreds of pages of repertoire, but what would be even better would be a single adequate performance of a piece, and that is where I focus my personal efforts.  by the same token, I won't be recording and posting any of my efforts  here, at least in the near term, as I feel that other members have already done a far better job on the pieces I play.

anyway, maybe someone can revive the "best of the audition room" thread?  I liked that one.

[stevebob]

this thread saddens me, and I think that at least part of the reason that excellent members such as Marik left this site is found within its contents above. 

I wasn't aware of such causation (or even correlation), and I'm skeptical.  Perhaps you could elaborate.

[rachfan]

Hi scottmcc,

I agree with your premise: When it comes to quantity and quality, I believe most of us here would prefer quality.

[scottmcc]

I wasn't aware of such causation (or even correlation), and I'm skeptical.  Perhaps you could elaborate.

perhaps I am mistaken, but I thought that there was some degree of him getting mad at poor artists criticizing his work (which was uniformly excellent).  it may not have been slow-concert, but I think that was what I remember of the general issue.  whatever the cause may be, I miss him.

[thalbergmad]

And I too.

His recording of the Weber/Tausig Invitation will live forever in my memory.

Thal