Fairly new teacher needs advice

[lalag]

Hi all,

I'm a fairly new piano teacher, and I have five young students and one teenage student.  One of my young ones, a 7-year-old girl, came to me because her mother didn't like the fact that she's been taking piano for a year now and still cannot read music.  She actually plays from memory very well, has excellent hand position and almost perfect rhythm, but indeed she cannot read music.

I have been working with her on this for about two months now, and just today during her lesson I was surprised when she had trouble telling me whether the notes on the page were going up or going down.  I went over and over it and wasn't getting through to her.  Because I was insisting that she look at the music during the part where she would play going down instead of up, she moved closer and put her face about five inches away from the book.  But by then she couldn't play 'cause she was so close to the piano. 

It dawned on me that she might have trouble with her eyesight.  And so I asked her a few questions, when she looks at the music what does she see, can she read the words, does she see the lines on the staff?  All of these questions, the answer was no.  I had her move her head closer and asked if she could see the words, the notes, the lines.  The answer was yes.  I took my glasses off and said that I couldn't read them either unless I wear my glasses.  Then I said that maybe she needs to have her eyes checked and that I would let her dad know. 

Then she rubbed her eyes and said, "Oh, it's okay now, I just had something in my eye."  I asked if she was sure, and she said yes.  Then I asked her to play, and she played better, but by then she had memorized it and was trying hard not to make a mistake.

I got the feeling she didn't want her dad to know, and he's kind of stand offish so I didn't know whether I should say anything.  I didn't just yet but should I?  Or is that overstepping my role as a teacher?  I don't want them to get mad at me or go to yet another teacher because once again their daughter isn't learning to read music.  But it's obvious to me that part of the problem is she can't see it.

Any advice?

Thanks for reading my very long post,

Laura

[drorperl]

Hello Laura

I think that if the problem is with her eyesight you'll be doing her a favor if you'll share this insight with the dad.

another thought is....dyslexia ? attention/learning disorder ?

Dror Perl
https://www.sheerpiano.com/

[keyboardclass]

Sometimes kids at that age say what you want them to say.  It should be easy enough to test her reading by asking her to read words on the sheet.  My guess is as a new teacher you're not aware how children need to learn how to be 'graphics literate' (anybody know the real term?).  I'd turn the music sideways to begin with.  She wouldn't have reach the stage Piaget termed 'formal operations' yet.

[fleetfingers]

If it were me, I would wait a few more lessons to test the student's eyesight without her knowing it. Put together some lines of music for her to read in very large print, and see if she catches on to your instructions and generally reads more easily. Then, get music in very small print that is simple (stuff that you know she shouldn't get wrong), and see how she does. Keep the reading level constant and vary the size of the notes/staff/words.

If, after testing your theory, you still believe that she might need glasses, then I don't think it would be overstepping your role as the teacher to tell the parent(s). School teachers do - especially if the issue at hand is hindering the teaching process. And having poor eyesight is fortunately not a touchy subject - at least I don't think so . On the other hand, if you believed a child had ADHD and told their parents, it would likely put them on the defensive.

But, again, I would wait and make sure before you say anything. Kids can be manipulative, and it's possible she just doesn't want to read the notes.

[lalag]

Thanks for your advice.  I'll test her some more over the next couple of weeks.  Great ideas.

[lalag]

Sometimes kids at that age say what you want them to say.  It should be easy enough to test her reading by asking her to read words on the sheet.  My guess is as a new teacher you're not aware how children need to learn how to be 'graphics literate' (anybody know the real term?).  I'd turn the music sideways to begin with.  She wouldn't have reach the stage Piaget termed 'formal operations' yet.

@keyboardclass

I don't know about "graphics literate" or "formal operations."  Can you explain?  Why turn the music sideways?

Thanks,

Laura

[keyboardclass]

It's hard to explain, young children's brains just work quite differently (concrete).  If you turn the music 90 degrees to the right when the notes go to the right so do her fingers - note to he left vice versus.

[lalag]

I see, that's interesting. 

[keyboardclass]

I really think all teachers of children should know their Piaget.  There are simplified books just for teachers.  I teach in a secondary school - I know most of my colleagues know nothing of his work or how it should affect their practice.

[lilla]

Another thing to consider.  I have noticed that certain of my students just aren't so interested in reading the music.  They will play by ear, play watching where my fingers going when demonstrating, by observing patterns, finger numbers - almost anything except reading the notes.  Why?  I think it's just because they happened onto something that works for them,  and why struggle to do something that seems more difficult.  They just take the easy route.  So we have to steer them into the correct path.  I see this most often when I'm discussing and demonstrating something particular to the music, and they have their eyes glued to my fingers on the keyboard.  I will tap the music and remind them that we are discussion what's printed on the page - but they still want to keep their eyes on my fingers.  Just a thought to add to discussion . . .

[keyboardclass]

I have that all the time too.  As a treat I'm teaching one boy a Chopin Mazurka by rote - just for 5 or 10 minutes of the lesson.  He says why can't we always do it that way but what I really would like him to cotton on to is that he can teach himself in the same way if he wishes.   

[thalberg]

If it is the eyesight, then obviously that needs to be resolved.

But if not, then I'll tell you a few things.  First of all, some kids are looking at the note stems -- are they pointing up or down?  You must emphasize that it is only the note heads that matter.  Second, some kids don't realize you are reading left to right.  You must slowly move a pencil across the page left to right and show them that is the direction you are going. 

Third, some kids can't tell the difference between a line note and a space note.  Have them hold a pencil in their fist.  Tell them the fist is the note head and the pencil is the line.  The line goes through the note head.  Many kids have no "object constancy," meaning that if the note is on the line, then in their mind, the line no longer exists -- the note is blocking it.  So the pencil exercise works.

Then number the lines (1 -5) and spaces (1-4).  Have them identify which lines or spaces the note heads are on. 

Then have them draw steps on the staff.

Then have them do the whole FJH notespeller.

And when they play actual pieces, make them point at every note with a pencil and name it verbally before playing.  Continue this until they can do it easily.

And test them each lesson to see if they can identify every note on the staff (18 notes -- 5 lines x 2 and 4 spaces x 2) in under a minute. Use your iPhone timer or something.

[keyboardclass]

That's a good list thal.  Kids is weird.

[mcdiddy1]

concret operation is basicly the stage around 6 - 13 where students learn best by actually touching objects , moving them, and understand basicly by things they can see or touch.
Formal operation is the stage usually around highschool where you can explain concepts that cannot be measured like courage, love or theoretical situations.
Basically if you want to teach younger students have them move around, clap, experience music rather than simply counting numbers or explaining what could happen in the future that they cannot see.

I think it is part of your job description to tell the parents because a condition like that is preventing you from doing your job, preventing the student from having success not only is music but probably other areas as well. You are not diagonosing her with a mental condition, your mearly mentioning there is a problem they need to be aware of. You need to have the parents on your side in order to really make a differece anyways. If she doesn't make progress with you, they will get another teacher anyways so why not take the risk to help her improve and be the brilliant one who was able to figure out why she had so much trouble.

The last think is I dont understand why is seems people want to  divorce playing by ear and reading notation. Playing by ear is an hugely important and useful skill. Most sheet music was created by someone creating music in their head and putting down on paper. Mozart and Beethoven were incredible at playing by ear ( before Beethoven started losing his hearing of course).However reading notation allows you to play anything in a faster way than figuring out by ear for most people anyways. Instead of leturing students and telling them they need to ready notation and having them be frustrated because they use a musical skill that they feel is being stifiled show they how it is useful.  If you are a strong sightreader have the student pick a peice for you to play. Once you play have them play it by ear. Chances are of course they cannot play by ear as quickly as you can read. Do it again so they get the point being able to read notation is easier, faster, and more efficent way to reproduce music. Encourage them to use their ears but the goal should be profiecent in both areas. The ear is useful for them in performance, memory, learning a piece, identifing errors and should be embraced expecialy being music is an aural art.

[lalag]

thal, thanks for all of the wonderful ideas. 

Instead of leturing students and telling them they need to ready notation and having them be frustrated because they use a musical skill that they feel is being stifiled show they how it is useful.  If you are a strong sightreader have the student pick a peice for you to play. Once you play have them play it by ear.

mcdiddy, I agree with you that playing by ear may be more natural to my student and that she shouldn't feel stifled, but at the same time the parents switched teachers because they were frustrated with the way she could only play songs after the teacher played them for her but could not learn to read the music.  I feel that in order to encourage her I should let her play by ear some, and then I will have to work on the notespeller exercises to help her learn to read the music.  I do not think it would benefit her if her parents send her to another teacher.  So, hopefully they will not feel that I am not doing a good job if I let her copy me.  She is oh so good at copying.

[mcdiddy1]

I am completely know what you are going to. I have many students who are like that and deal with the same problem.

 You should look into the Gordon learning theory about how children learn music. Like many teaching pedagogies, he suggest students having a an aural experience before verbal association. Meaning you could try playing for the student how the songs sounds and then after they know what it sounds like have them imitate you and then associate the symbol( note names) of what they just played. You would have to make connections between how notes go up and down and location of the staff, but it is pretty effective for students who play aurally rather visually.

 Honestly some kids just learn better aurally and you will find a number of musicians who wish they could play be ear more.  The teacher who played for the student may have been using that method but may not be making the visual connection right away. Id probably explain to parents starting aural and going visual is actually pretty common in music. Its the same way people learn language. Kids learn to babble and speak words way before the recognize them. You would not want to reverse that natural order. If you are persistant with having them read notes, constantly assessing them creativly they will pick it up.

One trick lol is to write out short tonal patterns and teach it aurally and then pulling out the notes and saying "hey, you played this". Then they play it again and after a couple of patterns go to the music and say "do you regonize any of these patterns?" by having the recognive them aural or visually. You would be using her strengh(aural recognition) to help teacher her weakness( visual recognition ). Just some things to think about. I meant it because it worked in many of my student's case.

[keyboardclass]

To expect under 12's to understand up and down is just a euphemism is also asking a lot.  I get them singing and playing by ear initially but don't expect them to comprehend going to the right means higher - in the concrete world it doesn't.

[lalag]

I will look into the Gordon theory because it makes sense to me that children would learn according to their level of development and their cognitive abilities at their age.  Hearing that you have had success with this method is reassuring. 

At first, I had wanted to be the teacher who could teach their daughter to read music, by NOT playing the music for her first.  Her parents specifically stated that the last teacher would play the piece and then she would imitate and not learn to read the notes. 

But if I could teach her to play aurally which is what she does best, recognize patterns, AND see those patterns written out on paper, that would be great.

This is such good advice, everyone.  I feel that I am on a journey here, and it's endless what I can learn while I am teaching.  If only I could spend all of my time doing this instead of my "day job". 

[keyboardclass]

With coaching my beginners quite quickly learn to sight sing their tunes.  If they don't know Doh, Ray, Me start there.

[honeywill]

I've found these flash cards from Susan Paradis really useful for my students who are struggling with the whole concept of reading - you get the student to start on any note and read the patterns, starting with 3 notes and only steps between. Then there are skips and more complex cards with up to 5 notes and lines.
https://www.susanparadis.com/catalog.php?ID=SP702

However, I agree with others that the sight issue is important, and you should mention your concern to the parents. All children should have their eyes tested periodically - either they will already have tried this and ruled it out, or it may be the key to the problem. Don't waste time trying to diagnose a visual problem yourself - that is not your job. Playing games and trying to catch her out will only confuse or upset the child.

[lalag]

I have had two lessons with her since starting this thread, in both of which I used my write erase board to write notes on, very large in size.  Both times she had no trouble understanding.  But today, when in front of the piano and looking at her piano book, she could not understand.  She said there were too many lines all over the place.  She was sitting right in front of the piano.

I will definitely say something to her parents.  Thanks everyone for the advice. 

Oh, and now all of a sudden she has forgotten where the notes are on the piano.  She plays F when I tell her to play G, etc. 

[keyboardclass]

In my experience young children don't relate one experience to another - at least not consciously.  To you and I what you did on the whiteboard relates to what is on the sheet - not to young children.  To them they are two distinct experiences which fail to meet in the brain.  It's what I mean by lacking in graphic literacy.  I've never found flash cards do anything for this very reason.  Children are not little adults, if anything they are little aliens!

[mcdiddy1]

Honestly parents can be the greatest help for teaching kids music and then sometimes they just plain get in the way. I had a student the other day come with her dad. The dad said " she has completely forgeten her left hand. Can you review the piece she learned previously. " So i am thinking really i must have done something wrong by teaching her by ear and then later visually. She starts playing and she is playing in C position instead of G position and I correct her. She says but my Dad said it was in C position!.  ( at this point I roll my eyes)

If you send your kid to piano lessons you should let the teacher do their job! Of course it is possible maybe she was confused about what her father said but it is pretty annoying when parents who know next to nothing about music teaching but interfer with a music teachers lesson plan. Basicly my philosophy is when you get a new student, you essentially have two students the child and the parent. Its the parent sometimes you have to watch out to make sure they don't screw it up!

[lisaandpiano]

I really think you should talk to her dad..!without let her know...

[lalag]

Update...

On her last lesson before the two-week break, I told her parents (both were present that time) about her difficulty with seeing the music.  I even gave them the example of not being able to see the ledger line that goes through the middle C note. 

Yesterday, she came for her first visit since the break, and she was wearing glasses!  She had no trouble seeing the page and no trouble following my directions!  I was so excited and relieved. 

Thanks everyone for your help with this.

Laura

[fleetfingers]

Thanks for the update. Often, people don't return to tell us how things turned out.

I am glad to hear that this little girl got the glasses that she needed. Not only will they enable her to learn to read music, but I'm sure she will benefit in other areas of her life, as well. And, they will, no doubt, make your job easier!

[keyboardclass]

I feel really sad seeing children with glasses - eye exercises should be tried first.

[omar_roy]

I feel really sad seeing children with glasses - eye exercises should be tried first.

No amount of eye exercises are going to help with the physical deformation of the eye at birth.  Myopia and Hyperopia are physical abnormalities with regard to the overall shape of the eye that result in light coming in at angles that converge before or after the retina leading to blurred image.  The only way to actually "Fix" it is to change the form of the eye through surgery like Lasik.  Or, the cheaper and safer option, is to change the angle at which light enters the pupil through the use of glasses or contact lenses.

[keyboardclass]

Don't knock it till you've tried it!