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Topic: Do you have tinnitus?  (Read 21406 times)

Offline sharonlovespiano

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Do you have tinnitus?
on: March 06, 2011, 03:00:09 PM
Hi collegue pianists,

Do you have tinnitus and does it bother you?
I suffered from tinnitus 4 years ago and I had to stop my piano study at the Conservatory because the tinnitus gets louder when I play. I've tried to play with -15 dec ear plugs but it didn't help. Also with -25dec ear plugs but then I feel too insolated...
Do you recognize something in this and do you like to tell something?
I'd like to talk to you!

Sharon
pianopianopianopiano

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #1 on: March 06, 2011, 06:25:01 PM
Well I have a tinnitus in my left ear since I've had a middle ear inflammation (otitis media) in 2000. It definitely does bother me, as I can never again experience total silence, like I had experienced it before, for instance when I was in a cave and just listening to the water drops, and between them just absolute silence. It's like a voice of death in my ear. It is a very high frequency, comparable to the one from the TV. It doesn't bother me in my work or during the day because everything is just much louder than this, but it does bother me when there's silence around. And during stressful times it sometimes gets stronger.   

Offline oxy60

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #2 on: March 06, 2011, 06:27:19 PM
Well, I understand that there is no cure. You don't mention your age nor what you were doing when you first were diagnosed. If it really bothers you all the time and keeps you awake at night, then you should seek medical advice. Over the years I have been involved with very loud music and consequently have a slight ringing in my ears. While practicing I turn up the volume to my earphones and that drowns it out. However it doesn't keep me awake.

In reality we all have our afflictions and each of us must learn to live with them.
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."  John Muir  (We all need to get out more.)

Offline ted

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #3 on: March 06, 2011, 08:20:43 PM
"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce

Offline oxy60

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #4 on: March 07, 2011, 04:11:06 AM
More information at www.ata.org

We're not alone!
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."  John Muir  (We all need to get out more.)

Offline brogers70

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #5 on: March 07, 2011, 04:30:11 AM
Yes, I have tinnitus, for about 2 years. It is definitely a loss not to be able to enjoy complete silence anymore. On the other hand, it bothers me less and less over time. It actually helps my piano practice, in a perverse way. If I just idly play the piano, the tinnitus begins to intrude on my awareness in a bothersome way. But if I'm really focused and concentrating on a specific goal in the practice, I don't notice the tinnitus at all.

Another positive thing is that tinnitus is really common; there's a huge economic market for successful therapy, and there are some seemingly good ideas about retraining the brain to recognize that the signals coming from the inner ear that cause tinnitus are not the result of external sounds. A bit of neural training and it might go away. I've personally played around with playing different sorts of white noise or pure tones into my ears and looking at effects on the perceived tinnitus, and there are really interesting changes - they don't last, but they are distinctive. For example, my tinnitus is high-pitched white noise combined with a pure tone. If I pipe in an external white noise that mimics my tinnitus, it all goes away (transiently), except for the pure tone, and vice versa. There are lots of people working on ways of training it away so that either your awareness of it goes away, or the entire perception of the illusory sound goes away. There's some reason to hope that it might ultimately be curable.

When I first had it and it was bothering me, I just kept consciously trying to relax, telling myself that there was no actual sound there, that it was not dangerous, and that it would gradually bug me less and less. And that's been true.

Best of luck with it.

Bill

Offline invictious

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #6 on: March 07, 2011, 08:02:25 AM
Yes I have tinnitus and it bothers me.

However, just to inject some humour, and to cheer people up in this depressing thread, I think mine is tuned tuned to an E..which is helpful if I play the violin, which I don't.
Bach - Partita No.2
Scriabin - Etude 8/12
Debussy - L'isle Joyeuse
Liszt - Un Sospiro

Goal:
Prokofiev - Toccata

>LISTEN<

Offline jimbo320

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #7 on: March 09, 2011, 05:58:09 PM
I also have tinnitus. Brought on by RSD spreading to the left side of my head. Loud sounds bring it on but the worst is when I'm in quiet surroundings. It's even caused headaches at times. Then I play a soft piano piece and I feel better.

Jimbo
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"Music is art from the heart. Let it fly\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"...

Offline ongaku_oniko

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #8 on: March 09, 2011, 06:02:15 PM
I have tinnitus. But it doesn't bother me at all.

Why? Because I've had it ever since I could remember. I've just always heard ringing sounds in my head, always, constantly. So it's the same as not hearing it, I'd assume.

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #9 on: March 12, 2011, 10:17:03 AM
Hi collegue pianists,

Do you have tinnitus and does it bother you?
I suffered from tinnitus 4 years ago and I had to stop my piano study at the Conservatory because the tinnitus gets louder when I play. I've tried to play with -15 dec ear plugs but it didn't help. Also with -25dec ear plugs but then I feel too insolated...
Do you recognize something in this and do you like to tell something?
I'd like to talk to you!

Sharon
I have tinnitus and it got significantly worse because I started playing piano.  It started driving me crazy to the point where I became very angry because I couldn't make it stop.  I had severe sensitivity to loud sounds and there was nothing I could do but put in ear plugs.

When I started using ear plugs, what I found was that the sound is significantly reduced which allowed me to inner hear.  I stopped focusing on the sounds the piano made and instead focused on the music my mind made.  This greatly improved my musicianship because I knew exactly what I wanted and just played.

It's very similar to talking.  You don't listen to yourself after you make sounds; you already know what you want to say before you open your mouth.  People who stutter do so because they listen to themselves after they open their mouths.  The feedback mechanism senses that something is wrong and they end up repeating the short sounds.  But when stutterers sing, they don't stutter because singing requires inner hearing and all good musicians inner hear.

It may seem like a handicap to wear ear plugs but it really isn't.  It's actually a great benefit because you damper the external sound and allows you to better inner hear.

Offline scottmcc

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #10 on: March 12, 2011, 11:57:48 AM
a brief plug, since I am an ear doctor:  if you haven't had a hearing test within the last year and you have tinnitus, you should get one.  additionally, if your tinnitus is pulsatile (ie timed with your heartbeat or sounds like your heart beating), only occurs on one side, or is associated with dizziness/unsteadiness, you should see your local ENT physician for evaluation.

that said, tinnitus is a frustrating, poorly understood condition that is usually benign but always annoying to at least some degree, especially in musicians.  most of the time it gets less noticeable over a period of 1-2 years after it first manifests, but in some people it gets worse, especially people with progressive hearing loss.  there are no medications that are effective for tinnitus, but some medicines are notorious for causing it (such as aspirin).  there is no effective surgery to relieve it.  the most accepted explanation for why it happens is that the ear has to actively signal the brain that there is silence.  if the ear is unable to do so, the brain creates a sound, which is the tinnitus.  as such, the most common cause of tinnitus is mild hearing loss.  typically it manifests as a high-pitched ring, although some people will hear crickets or static, and a minority will hear a low pitched rumble or washing-machine sound.  the most effective "treatment" is to employ masking noise during situations where the tinnitus is bothersome, such as using a fan or opening the window when trying to sleep, or having the TV on with the volume low, as tinnitus is most noticeable during periods of silence.

many musicians, especially those with perfect pitch, will map out the note that their tinnitus creates, as the poster above did.  supposedly some of Robert Schumann's final pieces were all centered around the pitch of his tinnitus.

anyway, hopefully this is illuminating.  please take the above as impromptu musings, not medical advice!  I intend in no way to diagnose or treat people over the internet.

Offline oxy60

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #11 on: March 12, 2011, 08:43:56 PM
That was an enlightening post from the good doctor.

Does anyone notice that playing in certain keys tends to ring your ears more than other keys? When you hit certain notes do they ring in your ears?

Could there be something to the story about RS? Why would he want to harmonize with the ringing in his ears? Does anybody have any idea which note was ringing in his ears? I play a lot of his work but I don't notice any predominance of one key over the other except to take note that he tends to stay away from keys with a lot of sharps or flats.
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."  John Muir  (We all need to get out more.)

Offline scottmcc

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #12 on: March 13, 2011, 01:44:18 AM
supposedly it was an A.  it's such a common key though, it'd be hard to really say anything about that.  also supposedly, he may have had neurosyphillis, and tinnitus is a common finding in that disorder, along with a great number of other ear findings and of course, neurosyphillis also makes one insane, as Schumann was in his later years.  then again, some people say that he was driven insane by his tinnitus...

Offline brogers70

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #13 on: March 14, 2011, 05:34:43 AM
That was an enlightening post from the good doctor.

Does anyone notice that playing in certain keys tends to ring your ears more than other keys? When you hit certain notes do they ring in your ears?


Yup. F# an octave and a diminished fifth above middle C. It's not enough to make me do anything differently, but that note does set up a ringing.

Offline ongaku_oniko

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #14 on: March 15, 2011, 02:50:36 PM
supposedly it was an A.  it's such a common key though, it'd be hard to really say anything about that.  also supposedly, he may have had neurosyphillis, and tinnitus is a common finding in that disorder, along with a great number of other ear findings and of course, neurosyphillis also makes one insane, as Schumann was in his later years.  then again, some people say that he was driven insane by his tinnitus...
Know anyone in my situation? Had a ringing noise in my head ever since I could remember... what could be the cause of that? Surely I haven't been losing my hearing since I was 8?

And my ringing is so high that I don't think it can be described with a note. I mean even though I don't have perfect pitch if I hear a sound I can compare it on the piano and know what note it is, and I can guess based on the piano sound what a C an octave above the highest note on the piano sound, but this ringing is so high that it just doesn't match a pitch. It's like any pitch you try to call it and it will sound higher.


It's like... pitch infinity

Offline oxy60

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #15 on: March 17, 2011, 03:49:57 PM
Yup. F# an octave and a diminished fifth above middle C. It's not enough to make me do anything differently, but that note does set up a ringing.

That makes two of us. Not quite enough to form an F# club but a start. Anyone else?
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."  John Muir  (We all need to get out more.)

Offline ongaku_oniko

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #16 on: March 17, 2011, 04:02:30 PM
Still looking for an answer to my question.

BTW do you guys who can hear the note of your tinnitus have perfect pitch?

Offline littletune

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #17 on: March 18, 2011, 09:24:49 PM
@Ongaku_oniko
Have you tried these tests?
https://www.freemosquitoringtones.org/
https://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/
I mean they're about how high frequency you can hear but I guess that's how you could figure out what frequency you're really hearing too.  :)

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #18 on: March 18, 2011, 09:38:05 PM
My tinnitus is also very high and not definable in terms of pitch. If it changes to a discernable pitch that means red alert! Then I seriously have to step shorter, take it easier, relax, have a few days off... thanks god this happens rarely.

Offline ongaku_oniko

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #19 on: March 18, 2011, 09:40:44 PM
The thing is, I can't hear high pitches. Only when I hear my ringing in my ears (which is anytime external noise doesn't drown it out, or I'm completely focused on something (not often))

None of the pitches that I can hear is anywhere near it. Like I've listened to those yotube videos and dog whistles and such, can't hear a thing. But the highest pitch I can hear is a lot lower than my ringing.

I don't know if that makes sense.

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #20 on: March 18, 2011, 09:46:52 PM
The thing is, I can't hear high pitches. Only when I hear my ringing in my ears (which is anytime external noise doesn't drown it out, or I'm completely focused on something (not often))

None of the pitches that I can hear is anywhere near it. Like I've listened to those yotube videos and dog whistles and such, can't hear a thing. But the highest pitch I can hear is a lot lower than my ringing.

I don't know if that makes sense.

Yes it makes sense. The human ear can hear up to 20.000 Hz frequencies. This ability decreases proportionally with age. But the brain can create much more than the physically hearable frequencies.

Offline ongaku_oniko

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #21 on: March 18, 2011, 09:48:46 PM
except I haven't been able to hear those sounds that supposedly peole under 25 can hear since.. well I could never hear them.

and I had tinnitus since I can remember.. so about 8 or 9...

even now I'm only 18, I never listen to extremely loud music, don't go to concerts andstuf... why is my hearing so bad?

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #22 on: March 18, 2011, 09:52:37 PM
except I haven't been able to hear those sounds that supposedly peole under 25 can hear since.. well I could never hear them.

and I had tinnitus since I can remember.. so about 8 or 9...

even now I'm only 18, I never listen to extremely loud music, don't go to concerts andstuf... why is my hearing so bad?

Perhaps you should make a hearing test and see a doctor. Or better vice versa. I'd recommend it strongly. But that doesn't mean you should be desperate now!! Okay? :)

Offline scottmcc

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #23 on: March 18, 2011, 10:18:15 PM
get the hearing test, then see an ENT.  be sure you tell the person running the test that you are a musician with tinnitus and that you need a comprehensive hearing test including ultra-high frequencies.  sometimes they will cheat out on the really high frequencies otherwise.  seeing the ENT without the test is a wasted visit, he'll just tell you to get a test and come back.  trust me, I do it all the time.  :)

Offline ongaku_oniko

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #24 on: March 18, 2011, 10:21:44 PM
Well, actually I don't even know if I have tinnitus. I just know I have a ringing noise in my head and it's definitely not external (unless I have something like synethesia or something, and can hear radio frequencies lol)

and it seems to fit the description of tinnitus. Is there any other hearing thing that may cause ringing in the ear since a young age? Since I don't appear to be losing any hearing abilities...


Thanks for the advice, though guys.

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #25 on: March 18, 2011, 10:24:15 PM
get the hearing test, then see an ENT.  be sure you tell the person running the test that you are a musician with tinnitus and that you need a comprehensive hearing test including ultra-high frequencies.  sometimes they will cheat out on the really high frequencies otherwise.  seeing the ENT without the test is a wasted visit, he'll just tell you to get a test and come back.  trust me, I do it all the time.  :)

Very good!

Offline oxy60

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #26 on: March 19, 2011, 03:30:14 PM
My tinnitus is also very high and not definable in terms of pitch. If it changes to a discernable pitch that means red alert! Then I seriously have to step shorter, take it easier, relax, have a few days off... thanks god this happens rarely.

This sounds familiar. Is the sound you hear all the time like white noise? Then we both might be in the same boat. When I get the tone, I just pop my ears by holding my nose and it goes away. Also the white noise sometimes clears at higher altitudes like 4000' but not always.
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."  John Muir  (We all need to get out more.)

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #27 on: March 19, 2011, 07:21:07 PM
This sounds familiar. Is the sound you hear all the time like white noise? Then we both might be in the same boat. When I get the tone, I just pop my ears by holding my nose and it goes away. Also the white noise sometimes clears at higher altitudes like 4000' but not always.

No it's not like white noise, it's very similar to that high tone which comes from the TV (I mean the old tube TV) that most people don't seem to hear but I did hear it until I was 42 or so. After that I didn't hear it anymore (Well, after that I didn't watch a lot of TV anymore, perhaps I could still hear it, I don't really know). But I still hear my tinnitus, given there's to some extent silence around me.

Offline ongaku_oniko

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #28 on: March 19, 2011, 07:25:36 PM
I don't know what tube TV you're talking bout, but mine sounds like when the TV doesn't have anything on, and it just has a few colored strips on the screen with a noise...

sort of like that

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #29 on: March 19, 2011, 08:07:34 PM
I don't know what tube TV you're talking bout,

The old TV devices used to work with a cathode ray tube (CRT)

Offline ongaku_oniko

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #30 on: March 19, 2011, 08:14:35 PM
How old?

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #31 on: March 19, 2011, 08:16:54 PM
How old?

Well many of them are still in use I think. Just the regular normal TV device before all these flatscreens came up.

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #32 on: March 19, 2011, 08:29:22 PM
Here's the actual frequency: (Quoted from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode_ray_tube )

Quote
High-frequency noise

CRTs used for television operate with horizontal scanning frequencies of 15,734 Hz (for NTSC systems) or 15,625 Hz (for PAL systems).[50] These frequencies are at the upper range of human hearing and are inaudible to many people; some people will perceive a high-pitched tone near an operating television CRT.[51] The sound is due to magnetostriction in the magnetic core of the flyback transformer.

We have PAL system in Europe, so the frequency I heard from the TV is 15,625 Hz and the tinnitus is very similar to this.

As said before, ageing goes along with a successive hearing loss. That's just as it is, unfortunately.
But for comparison: the highest C on the piano is 4186.01 Hz (relating to an A= 440 Hz tuning)


Offline littletune

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #33 on: March 19, 2011, 08:47:28 PM
I know the old TVs we had them till not long ago  :)

Oh and I sometimes hear a high tone in my ears too, but just for a few seconds... like something changes in my ears and then I can hear it for a few seconds and then it goes away... and it doesn't happen very often either.

(Oh did anyone try listening to those high frequencies? (I posted a link yesterday) Do you know what frequencies you can hear?)

But I had a hearing loss when I was little like till I was 5 and a half (and had a surgery) and then my hearing got ok. But I don't remember hearing any high tones then...  :-\ well I did hear something, but it wasn't high at all... When I was like 3 and 4 and 5 when I went to bed I was always listening to soldiers marching by  :) that's what it sounded like to me :) and I always ran and jumped into the bed and put my head into the pillow and held my breath and I heard a sound just like soldiers marching by... and first it was really loud like they were really close (I even saw them  :P ) and then it started to get quieter and quieter like they were going farther and farther away... I really liked that! :)

Offline countrymath

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #34 on: March 20, 2011, 03:17:29 AM
Yes =)
  • Mozart-Sonata KV310 - A minor

Offline fbusoni

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #35 on: April 13, 2011, 02:01:03 PM
Like someone mentioned above, I hear definite pitches now and then for apparently no reason at all. I also have a constant sound I hear in silence, sometimes quite loud. It's not exactly a pitch--it's more like high-pitched white noise, with some very high pitch underlying it (too high more me to pick out what note it is). It doesn't bother me unless there is silence; consequently, I always have some "noise" going, usually a fan, if I am not playing.

My girlfriend has more classic tinnitus, onset sometime in high school. Mine I have had as long as I can remember; I thought everyone heard silence the same way until quite recently.

Offline ahinton

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #36 on: April 13, 2011, 09:54:08 PM
Yes, occasionally.

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #37 on: April 13, 2011, 10:35:31 PM
Oh and I sometimes hear a high tone in my ears too, but just for a few seconds... like something changes in my ears and then I can hear it for a few seconds and then it goes away... and it doesn't happen very often either.

Yeah - I get that as well... would like to know if I should be worried.

Offline oxy60

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #38 on: April 14, 2011, 03:50:26 PM
Check out the site at www.ata.org
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."  John Muir  (We all need to get out more.)

Offline ted

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #39 on: April 16, 2011, 11:09:10 AM
Yeah - I get that as well... would like to know if I should be worried.

Most people I know get that occasional, sudden tinnitus which fades. I don't think the cause is known. I find that yawning, or simulating a few yawns, gets rid of it almost immediately, so I have therefore assumed it must be some sort of pressure effect. I am subject to nasal blockage, for which I use Alanase spray on and off, so that could have something to do with it. 
"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce

Offline sharonlovespiano

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #40 on: May 27, 2011, 11:53:00 AM
Thank you all guys for your messages..
Does anyone of you know Dr. Hans Greuel in Düsseldorf? You can find him on the internet.
He says he has helped a lot of pianists from London.

So... I was wondering, any pianists here from London who did his therapy?
Thanks,

Sharon
pianopianopianopiano

Offline keschkemet

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #41 on: June 09, 2011, 09:40:28 PM
Hi collegue pianists,

Do you have tinnitus and does it bother you?
I suffered from tinnitus 4 years ago and I had to stop my piano study at the Conservatory because the tinnitus gets louder when I play. I've tried to play with -15 dec ear plugs but it didn't help. Also with -25dec ear plugs but then I feel too insolated...
Do you recognize something in this and do you like to tell something?
I'd like to talk to you!

hello Sharon- I am so sorry to hear how you have suffered.That's terrible.You are not alone.  I too am a pianist.Last year I was hit on the head and I have suffered with tinnitus eversince.It too gets louder when I play.I have tried ear plugs, but like, you they don't work.It is the most terrible thing that can happen  because it stops us from being ourselves.I  am taking ginko biloba,zinc,magnesium and vitamin A suplements.Do not drink caffeine or wine or eat chocolate.Avoid stress.Get some therapy to help you mentally block out the tinntius.Maybe after more time and rest it will improve and you will be able to play for short periods.I am steadily improving but I can only play for a ten minutes at a time.Try to enjoy the other things in life and find a quiet fullfilling hobby like pottery or yoga.Stay on the quiet side and thank God you can walk pain free in the countryside and enjoy the sounds of nature.Look on the bright side.You did the right thing.Good luck x Louise

Sharon

Offline oxy60

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #42 on: June 10, 2011, 08:39:15 PM
There is nothing better to silence the noise in your ears then a 130db rock concert. I left in glorious silence while my friends ears are still ringing 24 hours later.
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."  John Muir  (We all need to get out more.)

Offline sordel

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #43 on: June 22, 2011, 09:18:18 AM
I don't know whether anyone here has looked at the fascinating/frustrating series of symposia edited by John Zorn called Arcana: Musicians on Music, but there's an interesting article in the second about tinnitus, written by J. G. Thirlwell, better known by his recording name, Foetus.

The article is called "Tinnitus: An Occupational Hazard: A casualty on the battlefield of noise" and worth reading, though don't buy the book for it as it's only five pages long.

I don't suffer from tinnitus, I'm happy to say, but a tip out there for anyone who wants to avoid it is to use in-ear monitors for protracted listening sessions: since they almost silence outside noise, they mean that you can listen to recorded music at significantly lower sound pressures than most listeners.
In the interests of full disclosure: I do not play the piano (at all).

Offline sharonlovespiano

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Re: Do you have tinnitus?
Reply #44 on: June 29, 2011, 12:13:59 PM

@ Louise: thank you for your message! I have such a therapy at the moment, but I really can't block out the tinnitus out of my mind.. It's really difficult!

For the rest... No experiences with Dr. Hans Greuel in Düsseldorf?
pianopianopianopiano
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