Grigory Sokolov Prokofiev and Stravinsky

[jaggens]

Hi,

have you ever heard this pianist in live concert?
Recently discovered and I really like his playing and would like to share.

He visited my home city Tartu in the middle of 90-s but I did not go to the concert.
I was young too.. But I remember people talking with sparkle and enthusiasm both after and before the concert.

Prokofievs 7-th sonata

Stravinsky - Petrouchka

GL
Jaak

[perfect_pitch]

Well I've heard him completely butcher Rachmaninoff's 3rd Piano Concerto, so that was disappointing.

His Stravinsky isn't bad... He just seems too theatrical as if somehow all that fools us into thinking he's more emotional than he really is.

[jaggens]

Hi perfect_pitch,

You do not seem to be a huge fan of him
But have not heard the Rach 3 with him.

Jaak

[haydnseeker]

Sadly, we're unlikely to be hearing him in the UK any time soon.  His last two planned appearances were cancelled for visa reasons:


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturecritics/ismenebrown/4939085/Grigory-Sokolovs-visa-woes.html

[krystellle]

His seventh prokofiev is superlative.  The ostinato in the last movement is insuperable.

[franz_]

Shortly said, in my opinion he's the best pianist alive. And many friend of me share that opinion. You have Sokolov and the other pianists.
I've heard him live several times and it had an enormous effect on me.

[pianoplayjl]

He has one of the best renditions of petrushka though!

[mike_lang]

His Stravinsky isn't bad... He just seems too theatrical as if somehow all that fools us into thinking he's more emotional than he really is.

I'm not sure I follow you . . . I thought his Stravinsky was quite good. Did you find the Stravinsky to have emotional content that he did not bring out or was incapable of highlighting?  What was theatrical about his performance?  Why did you think that he was trying to fool someone?

You might consider being a little more specific in your "review," instead of making these absurd generic statement/speculations about one of the great artists of the last 50 years.

[pianoplayjl]

Well I've heard him completely butcher Rachmaninoff's 3rd Piano Concerto, so that was disappointing.

His Stravinsky isn't bad... He just seems too theatrical as if somehow all that fools us into thinking he's more emotional than he really is.

That concerto is really hard so I think it is unsurprising he butchered it.

[perfect_pitch]

You might consider being a little more specific in your "review," instead of making these absurd generic statement/speculations about one of the great artists of the last 50 years.

Okay - his mannerisms are awful... he pounds the crap out of any piano instead of trying to get a full meaty sound - he gets a big bang instead, he lacks finesse in a number of his performances - the 3rd Rachmaninoff concerto is a fine example of that, and at times I think he loses the musicality in the pieces he is playing.

I've been specific many a time, and this one time I didn't feel like being specific... but that doesn't mean that I deserve your cynical attitude or your condescension... so how about you cram it.

It's not absurd at all... I have my opinions, and I have reasons behind those reasons... and I somehow doubt he's one of the best pianists of the last 50 years.

[mike_lang]

I've been specific many a time, and this one time I didn't feel like being specific... but that doesn't mean that I deserve your cynical attitude or your condescension... so how about you cram it.

I don't mean to be cynical and certainly not to condescend, but I must say that it is responses like this (and your original reply, to which I responded) that undermine the possibilities for decent discussion in this forum.  Of course you are entitled to your opinions, I mine, and everyone else his or hers, but if you are going to make a statement (i.e., post), it should be something that invites intelligent discussion, and not simply bashing.  In any event, I think you would be well advised to lose the attitude.

That having been said, I understand your main criticism of G. Sokolov to be an overly aggressive sound at times, which is a commonly lodged complaint.  Lack of finesse?  Loss of musicality?  These I don't quite understand . . . every sound that comes out of the piano is exactly what he wants.  Was there something that bothered you about the shaping, the phrasing, the architecture, the pacing, the voicing, the rhythm . . . something contrary to the musical meaning in the Rachmaninoff?  Again, you are using very vague words.  When you use such language, you deprive us of the opportunity to have a discussion about the performances (I assume you are referring to the two videos on YouTube).

Best,
Mike

[mike_lang]

That concerto is really hard so I think it is unsurprising he butchered it.

Butchered how?

[pianoplayjl]

what I'm trying say is that it is inevitable that some pianist will make a mistake while playing Rachmaninoff PC 3. I'm trying to defend his playing. By the way, the section in the 1st movement where the heavy chords come in while accompanied by orchestra-that was the second best rendition I've heard it that section since Byron Janis. The cadenza was awesome too! I've never heard of this version's cadenza before but I prefer this one to the one Janis played.

[perfect_pitch]

I don't mean to be cynical and certainly not to condescend, but I must say that it is responses like this (and your original reply, to which I responded) that undermine the possibilities for decent discussion in this forum.  

You know... what fascinates me, is that you find it so odd that someone doesn't like Sokolov. I really don't understand it. I'm entitled to my opinions and believe me - so for now - you're just going to have to accept that I'm not keen on a lot of his interpretations, but I sure as hell don't need to explain them to you - I have my reasons.

Butchered how?

How??? Have you HEARD the performance??? Maybe you should listen to it first...

In any event, I think you would be well advised to lose the attitude.

Nah... It's served me well right up till today...

When you use such language, you deprive us of the opportunity to have a discussion about the performances (I assume you are referring to the two videos on YouTube).

Oh for goodness sake - I've seen a lot more than just two videos to base my opinions on... I've also heard a few of his audio recordings.

Considering how many pianists, recordings, performances etc... I really don't have time to defend and criticise EVERY SINGLE pianist and performer I've heard. I'm sure another time, we can discuss something else - but considering I've made it clear why I'm not happy with a lot of Sokolov's performances, I don't think I really need to explain it as this time.

[pianoplayjl]

In some places of Rachmaninoff's 3rd PC he did butcher up a little...his timing was noticable I think.

[mike_lang]

You know... what fascinates me, is that you find it so odd that someone doesn't like Sokolov.

I don't find it hard to believe at all, but usually there are a few things in a performance with which one has a bone to pick, conceptually or specifically.  I happen to like Sokolov, but I am interested in your evaluation.

How??? Have you HEARD the performance??? Maybe you should listen to it first...

Yes, I know the one on Youtube, and I have a second live one that someone gave to me (perhaps we're not listening to the same performance -- or maybe we are); he's been known to have spectacularly good days and on the other hand, disastrously off days.

Considering how many pianists, recordings, performances etc... I really don't have time to defend and criticise EVERY SINGLE pianist and performer I've heard.

Perhaps you shouldn't, then?

[mike_lang]

In some places of Rachmaninoff's 3rd PC he did butcher up a little...his timing was noticable I think.

This may be a question of semantics, but I would be loathe to use as extreme a word as "butcher" . . . maybe "flub" or "gloss over" is closer to what you mean?

[pianoplayjl]

yes that's what I meant.