College auditions

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Okay hey what's up! 
I figured out how to edit a thread, that's awesome!

Now I need a Romantic work, a "virtuoso" or Chopin etude, and a 20th century work.

For auditions do you have to play the ENTIRE work, or can you just like play some of it?  Because I was thinking of playing Mendelssohn's variations op. 54 or the Rachmaninoff 6 moment musicals but my teacher said that they wouldn't let you do that because it would take too long.  So would colleges let me play a 30 minute Rachmaninoff moment musical or a 10-13 minute variation?  Because some colleges are like, "oh yeah you have to play an ENTIRE romantic and an ENTIRE 20th century work".  Is that true?  Or can I just play like three out of the 6 moment musicals?  Because my teacher said that even Mendelssohns variations are too long and it's only like 10 minutes. 

And for my 20th century work, I have absolutely no idea what I wanna play.  So please recommend a good 20th century "work".  I wanted to do Debussy images book I but my teacher said that it would be too long?  So would it be okay to play like just one of the movements of Debussy images?  Or if I play one, do I have to play all three?  But then he also said that it's not 20th century enough, and I needed something more 20th centuryish. 

For the "virtuoso" or Chopin etude, I don't think it should be too bad because they're kinda short and I won't spend too much time with it.  But I've heard that Chopin isn't my best composer so I might try transcendental etude 10 for the school that don't require a Chopin etude.

So it would be kinda kool if you guys would please help me out with this. 

[werq34ac]

So ANYWAYS ANYWAYS, I talked to my old piano teacher and he said that playing anything that's uber difficult like Hammerklaiver wouldn't be a good idea cause the judges would think that you're arrogant and that you're telling them that they can't teach you anything, you're gonna teach them etc. 

Hammerklavier isn't the only sonata you should avoid; I would say avoid all of the late Beethoven sonatas. The judges won't exactly think you are arrogant, but their attitude would be sorta like "so you think you can play Op. (90+?). Well then show me." These sonatas in particularly require quite a bit of musical maturity and if you are lacking, it won't look very good the judges at all. The more difficult pieces you are playing, the higher standards at which the judges will judge you.

So ANYWAYS ANYWAYS ANYWAYS, I already started learning the Pathetique sonata for some apparent reason and I have like a page left in the first movement.  But as I practicing, I realized: Pathetique is kinda overplayed and probably isn't the best audition piece.

You probably want to avoid pieces everyone plays, although if you are absolutely confident you can play it well, then I see no reason not to play it.

I remember him mentioning Appasionata when I asked him if I could play a Beethoven Sonata last lesson, but I don't know if it would be a good audition piece.

The Appasionata is a decent audition piece, but it is much more difficult than the Pathetique. If you aren't ready for this piece, it would be quite disastrous.

[symphonicdance]

In terms of difficulties (technical, musical, etc.), the following are usually considered to be at the more advanced level:-
Waldstein, Appassionata, Les Adieux and late piano sonatas (#28-32)
and perhaps, they are more regularly performed than some of the others.  Unless you are absolutely comfortable and confident, otherwise why take the risk?

I tend to view that the highly popular Pathetique (and also Moonlight, Tempest, Pastoral) may be a bit danger, because the examiner can more easily benchmark, and probably he/she will compare yours against the masters.

Perhaps you can consider #3, 4, 7, 11, 16 and 18.  They remain difficult and popular, but lesser than the above mentioned ones.

BTW, do you have time limit for this?

[pytheamateur]

You might consider Op 14 No1 in E Major.  Nice piece, right level of difficulty, and room to display virtuosity.

[49410enrique]

does it have to be a beetoven sonata, there are some very very nice classical , romantic, or grey area classical -romantic ish, works by other composers too, maybe it would be  a good idea to present them with something refreshingly different/less played? not sure though, maybe your requirements are specific to the composer?

i rather like  this one,hummel isn't performed much, and of what is, this one seems neglected
Piano Sonata No. 4 in C Op. 38
1st mvnt

yt should link u to the other mvmnts from there

[werq34ac]

does it have to be a beetoven sonata, there are some very very nice classical , romantic, or grey area classical -romantic ish, works by other composers too, maybe it would be  a good idea to present them with something refreshingly different/less played? not sure though, maybe your requirements are specific to the composer?

i rather like  this one,hummel isn't performed much, and of what is, this one seems neglected
Piano Sonata No. 4 in C Op. 38
1st mvnt

yt should link u to the other mvmnts from there

Many schools limit it to Mozart, Haydn, or Beethoven. I know for sure Jacobs School of Music at Indiana University limits the classical sonata to Beethoven only and excluding Op. 49 and 79. Most people play Beethoven becomes just about all schools allow Beethoven while not all schools allow Haydn or Mozart.

In terms of difficulties (technical, musical, etc.), the following are usually considered to be at the more advanced level:-
Waldstein, Appassionata, Les Adieux and late piano sonatas (#28-32)
and perhaps, they are more regularly performed than some of the others.  Unless you are absolutely comfortable and confident, otherwise why take the risk?

I tend to view that the highly popular Pathetique (and also Moonlight, Tempest, Pastoral) may be a bit danger, because the examiner can more easily benchmark, and probably he/she will compare yours against the masters.

Perhaps you can consider #3, 4, 7, 11, 16 and 18.  They remain difficult and popular, but lesser than the above mentioned ones.

BTW, do you have time limit for this?

My teacher didn't let me play no. 4... while he didn't mind me playing Appasionata. So I would probably rate no.4 as fairly difficult. I would say that the only pieces you want to avoid based on popularity would be the Moonlight and Pathetique. Tempest, while being played often, isn't a bad choice for the audition. Same with Pastorale, which is the piece I will be auditioning with next year. Though I'm sure the judges will really like it if someone plays a lesser known sonata.

As for the time limit, each person gets 15 minutes to play about an hour of repertoire. The judges will ask for excerpts from your pieces, but I think you get to choose the first piece. Some movements may be skipped due to time constraints. Though you can definitely count on them listening to your Bach fugue wherever you go.

You might consider Op 14 No1 in E Major.  Nice piece, right level of difficulty, and room to display virtuosity.

You don't want to go for easy with these auditions. If you play a significantly easier Beethoven Sonata, you really have to shine musically. And showing virtuosity is for the etude/romantic piece, not the Beethoven, although Beethoven can be technically difficult.



Someone mentioned Op. 2 no. 3 which is good to audition with, however, you really need to have those thirds down perfectly. Smudging the first measure of the piece will not bode well with the judges.

[lisztarian]

I would absolutely recommend Op.2, No.3. It is a very beautiful work and indeed difficult. However, it should not be terribly difficult. I think it should probably take you about 3 months to prepare this sonata in a good shape, yet 6 months would be show a fantastical result. I remember going to a piano competition last year where competitors had to play a classical sonata. Most the competitors played very famous sonatas by Beethoven (Appassionata, Waldestein, HammerKlavier). Due to my luck, I played Op.2, No.3 and -Thank God- I won second prize. This sonata will be a beautiful piece to add to your repertoire, also taking into consideration that it is about 27 minutes-long without repetitions ! Good Luck with your choice! All Beethoven sonatas are wonderful!

[symphonicdance]

To Lisztarian
Congratulations!  Op 2 No 3 isn't an easy piece.
For curiosity, would you mind telling what did the winner and the 2nd runner up played?

To werq34ac
Interesting comments on No 4 vs No 23.  Personally I find No 4 is relatively less challenging than No 3 and No 23.  I would consider No 23 to be highly challenging: it doesn't only require the pianist to have decent techniques but also the ability to display a great depth of musical emotions to move the audience/examiner (especially when the audience/examiner must have heard so many times).

[werq34ac]

To Lisztarian
Congratulations!  Op 2 No 3 isn't an easy piece.
For curiosity, would you mind telling what did the winner and the 2nd runner up played?

To werq34ac
Interesting comments on No 4 vs No 23.  Personally I find No 4 is relatively less challenging than No 3 and No 23.  I would consider No 23 to be highly challenging: it doesn't only require the pianist to have decent techniques but also the ability to display a great depth of musical emotions to move the audience/examiner (especially when the audience/examiner must have heard so many times).

Well actually, I was going to play Appasionata, but I actually have a few issues with the emotional side. It's not that I'm incapable of expressing it, but I just forget in the heat of performance. He remarked that if it wasn't for an audition, it would have been a good piece to work on for that aspect. I think part of the reason 4 was "out of the question" was due to his length. That and Waldstein are just really big pieces.

And I agree with Op. 2 no. 3, it's a great piece to audition with, and my teacher tried to get me to play this that one instead, since I already learned the 1st movement, but I didn't really feel an affinity with the piece so I decided no.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Alright thanks to all of you guys for your feedback! 
I know everyone says that just to say it, but I mean it.

HOWEVER, my teacher said that the Pathetique sonata was be a good choice for ME.

BUT I still need some other pieces.

I'm also having trouble deciding a "virtuoso" etude, a romantic work, and a 20th century piece.

I don't think that deciding the "virtuoso etude should be too difficult because they're relatively short and I don't have to spend a load of time learning it.  I'll just do like a Chopin etude or something.  Maybe revolutionary etude (op 10. no. 12) or like Chopin etude op. 10 no. 4.  But I've heard that Chopin isn't my best composer so for other schools that don't require a Chopin etude, I might to Transcendental etude 10

For my romantic work, the auditions are like, "oh yeah you have to play the ENTIRE work and it has to be at least 10 minutes long".  So I was thinking of playing Mendelssohn's variations or Rachmaninoff moment musicals but then my teacher was like, "oh yeah school auditing don't require you to have like a 45 minute audition for undergraduate".  So What do you guys think I should do?  Only play like three of the moment musicals?  Because some schools say that you have to play the ENTIRE work, and I don't many ENTIRE works that are relatively short.

For 20th century works, what would you guys suggest?  I have absolutely no idea what I wanna play.



I'm relatively new to piano street so apparently I don't know how to respond to you individually, sorry.

[lisztarian]

Well, if you think the etude will take the least time to get it done, then I am afraid that you are wrong, especially taking into consideration the Chopin etudes like the ones you mentioned. In general, college auditions take about 40 to 60 minutes. They ask you to propose the program. IF you are lucky, you will be asked to play only several works, but you might as well be asked to play the entire repertoire you have written down for the audition. I know one friend who applied for the Chopin Academy in Warsaw. Their entrance exam is soooo terribly difficult. Students had to really compete to prove who deserves to study there. I remember he played a very long program which took about 65 minutes! I remember he played:

1- Bach- Prelude & Fugue WTCI #22 (5 voices)
2- Beethoven- Appassionata
3- Chopin- Etude Op.25, No.1
4- Liszt- Transcendental Etude#4 (Mazeppa)
5- Chopin- Ballade #2
6- Ravel- Gaspard de la Nuit (Scarbo)

I might have gone way far from the subject, but he was asked to play the entire program he proposed for the auditions. Some other friends I know were asked to play the entire program with only one movement from the sonata they chose. But this does not mean you should prepare your program without caring about each & every note in it.

Going back to the Romantic piece, since you have about 10 minutes or more. Perhaps you should chose a REAL romantic work with great imagination and individuality. I would suggest something more musical than technical, because you will show them your technical abilities in the etudes. I believe Liszt would be a great idea, since you said Chopin is probably not your thing. In my opinion, Vallee D'Obermann would be a fantastic piece to add, but I must say its musically VERY difficult, yet technically not the very typical Liszt everyone thinks about. If not this piece, then Perhaps a set of Mazurkas would be REALLY interesting, as Op.24 of Chopin, a cycle of four mazurkas which takes about 13 minutes to perform in total.

As to the Etude, try Liszt Transcendental Etude #7 (Eroica). Trust me, it is not as difficult as it seems, but a great technical showoff work! If you are looking for easier etudes, perhaps Chopin's etude Op.10, No.9 or Op.25, No.1 and/OR No.2. The etudes YOU mentioned are more difficult than the ones I mentioned technically. If neither Liszt nor Chopin does the job for you, then MAYBE Ligeti could be the very good choice indeed. However, the rhythm will cause some MINOR difficulties in most of his etudes.


 I might have written a long response, but I hope there could be some light in my ideas. and If you need anything else, the guys in here will be stunning with great ideas that will surely be of great value! GOOD LUCK! Greetings from Kuwait!

[symphonicdance]

"deciding a "virtuoso" etude, a romantic work, and a 20th century piece"

Romantic:
Too many to choose from... very much depended on your preference....

Etudes:
Perhaps one or two of Szymanowski's Four Etudes Op 4
Liszt's concert etudes and Paganini etudes in addition to 12 Transcendental Etudes could be something you can consider.

Modern:
Perhaps Copland's The Cat and The Mouse
or a piece or two from Barber's Excursions or Souvenirs Op 28
or a piece or two from Ginastra's 12 American Preludes
or Say's Paganini Jazz

[werq34ac]

Okay hey what's up! 
I figured out how to edit a thread, that's awesome!

Now I need a Romantic work, a "virtuoso" or Chopin etude, and a 20th century work.

For auditions do you have to play the ENTIRE work, or can you just like play some of it?  Because I was thinking of playing Mendelssohn's variations op. 54 or the Rachmaninoff 6 moment musicals but my teacher said that they wouldn't let you do that because it would take too long.  So would colleges let me play a 30 minute Rachmaninoff moment musical or a 10-13 minute variation?  Because some colleges are like, "oh yeah you have to play an ENTIRE romantic and an ENTIRE 20th century work".  Is that true?  Or can I just play like three out of the 6 moment musicals?  Because my teacher said that even Mendelssohns variations are too long and it's only like 10 minutes. 

And for my 20th century work, I have absolutely no idea what I wanna play.  So please recommend a good 20th century "work".  I wanted to do Debussy images book I but my teacher said that it would be too long?  So would it be okay to play like just one of the movements of Debussy images?  Or if I play one, do I have to play all three?  But then he also said that it's not 20th century enough, and I needed something more 20th centuryish. 

For the "virtuoso" or Chopin etude, I don't think it should be too bad because they're kinda short and I won't spend too much time with it.  But I've heard that Chopin isn't my best composer so I might try transcendental etude 10 for the school that don't require a Chopin etude.

So it would be kinda kool if you guys would please help me out with this. 

AH please don't COMPLETELY edit your posts, they make everyone else's make no sense..

Anyway, As for auditions, I was aware that you are given 15 minutes to play about an hour of music. Which means they most certainly cannot listen to ENTIRE pieces. They will most likely listen to a little bit of this and a little bit of that. They might not even listen to some movements of pieces, although you never know so you should be well prepared. As for playing the ENTIRE moment musicaux, You already have a 20-30 minute Beethoven Sonata to play as well as A romantic piece or two depending on the college. I would not recommend playing ANOTHER very long piece since that just means you have to prepare more material most of which you won't even get to play for the judges.

As for playing works in their entirety, I thought that only applied to sonatas, but that was just the colleges I've looked at.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Well, if you think the etude will take the least time to get it done, then I am afraid that you are wrong, especially taking into consideration the Chopin etudes like the ones you mentioned. In general, college auditions take about 40 to 60 minutes. They ask you to propose the program. IF you are lucky, you will be asked to play only several works, but you might as well be asked to play the entire repertoire you have written down for the audition. I know one friend who applied for the Chopin Academy in Warsaw. Their entrance exam is soooo terribly difficult. Students had to really compete to prove who deserves to study there. I remember he played a very long program which took about 65 minutes! I remember he played:

1- Bach- Prelude & Fugue WTCI #22 (5 voices)
2- Beethoven- Appassionata
3- Chopin- Etude Op.25, No.1
4- Liszt- Transcendental Etude#4 (Mazeppa)
5- Chopin- Ballade #2
6- Ravel- Gaspard de la Nuit (Scarbo)

I might have gone way far from the subject, but he was asked to play the entire program he proposed for the auditions. Some other friends I know were asked to play the entire program with only one movement from the sonata they chose. But this does not mean you should prepare your program without caring about each & every note in it.

Going back to the Romantic piece, since you have about 10 minutes or more. Perhaps you should chose a REAL romantic work with great imagination and individuality. I would suggest something more musical than technical, because you will show them your technical abilities in the etudes. I believe Liszt would be a great idea, since you said Chopin is probably not your thing. In my opinion, Vallee D'Obermann would be a fantastic piece to add, but I must say its musically VERY difficult, yet technically not the very typical Liszt everyone thinks about. If not this piece, then Perhaps a set of Mazurkas would be REALLY interesting, as Op.24 of Chopin, a cycle of four mazurkas which takes about 13 minutes to perform in total.

As to the Etude, try Liszt Transcendental Etude #7 (Eroica). Trust me, it is not as difficult as it seems, but a great technical showoff work! If you are looking for easier etudes, perhaps Chopin's etude Op.10, No.9 or Op.25, No.1 and/OR No.2. The etudes YOU mentioned are more difficult than the ones I mentioned technically. If neither Liszt nor Chopin does the job for you, then MAYBE Ligeti could be the very good choice indeed. However, the rhythm will cause some MINOR difficulties in most of his etudes.


 I might have written a long response, but I hope there could be some light in my ideas. and If you need anything else, the guys in here will be stunning with great ideas that will surely be of great value! GOOD LUCK! Greetings from Kuwait!


Is this how you respond to someone?  Forgive me, I'm rather new, so I don't kno if this is how you individually respond.

But thanks for your feedback!  For the 20th century piece, I was thinking of trying ligeti etude 13 "the devil's staircase".  Your friends repertoire was kinda tough lol. Gaspard de la Nuit for an audition?! That's risky!

[werq34ac]

Well that's sorta how your reply to someone, but you don't leave your reply WITHIN the

thingy. Lisztartian's friend played really difficult repertoire. I don't know how it is Europe, but here in America, there is almost no need to play such difficult repertoire. You really aren't there to show off what pieces you can play, but your potential for the piano. I mean if you are absolutely confident you can play those pieces, I would still avoid them unless you've been playing them for at least 3 years (Which means you've been playing those since the age of 15).

Ligeti is excellent for the 20th century piece.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Dang, I have everything picked out except a contemporary/20th century piece.  Ay suggestions?