Bach P&F A flat major WTC I

[rachmaninoff_forever]

DON'T READ THIS UNTIL YOU'VE LISTENED TO IT FIRST FIRST


Okay SO...  This is how it is.

I know this fugue is probably a dance.  So the first beat of every measure is like a guy/girl teaching a girl/guy the moves of a new dance.  So it goes like,  

'This, and then you do... THIS, and then you do...  THIS!

But being a dance alone would be kinda boring and stupid.  So I thought the melodies with the right and left hand would be like two people talking.  So the starts off with the right hand first measure, and then it gets a little more playful the second measure because the melody is shifted up a half step.  So I do a little crescendo.  But then the left hand takes the melody on the third fourth measure and mimics what the right hand did on measure 1 and 2.  Like two people are in sync with each other.  Because in baroque dances, the partners had to do like the same movements right?  And then after the intro, it gets a little more complicated but I don't feel like talking about.

Since I played this on a piano and not a Harpsichord, I decided to roll the chords to give it more of a Harpsichordish feeling.  And I think it sounds a bit more elegant that way.

And the little run where the both hands are doing the little run thing right before the end of the prelude wasn't completely together.  That was...  Just forget about it dude...  I have it under control.  Don't worry about it.



As for the fugue...  I know I added a tad bit too much pedal here and there.  Especially on bars 7, 18, 28, and somewhere else near the end.  Or maybe am I over analyzing it?  

But ANYWAYS, this camera picks up dynamic changes kinda weird.  I think it's more on the forte side.  So when I get to like bars 10, 13, 17, and 18, it's not as loud as it really is.  And on top of that, I think the camera doesn't hold voices very well.  So that may effect how it sounds for you guys.  

Alright, straight to business...  So Bach was pretty religious right?  He was like a Lutheran or something.  And apparently he wrote everything in the name of god.  So my first image of this fugue is about this guy who's thankful for everything.  He's like, 'yeah man, I got a sexy wife, good job, I live in a nice neighborhood, I'm rich, I have my own 30 foot steinway concert grand,  I don't have any kids, free tickets to every Valentina Lisitsa concert, and I'm only like 21.  What else could I ask for!'.

But wait a second...  This is a fugue!  This is too complicated for an image like that!  So this is kinda hard to explain, but I thought of this fugue as kinda like the second movement of the Rach 3 except more Baroque like.  Like the first Meno Mosso part that starts at C# major where the orchestra comes in after the first little piano solo.  It sounds like a little flower sprouting, or butterfly coming out of it's cocoon.  It's really cool because it's like a bunch of stuff intertwining and coming together, and at the end of the passage, it finishes off with a little trill or something as a sign that the creation or whatever is complete... aaaaagh it's so freaking hard to explain!  But yeah, ANYWAYS, I thought the fugue was like that.  Because there's like four voices and there's like crossing with each other, and doing all of this intertwining and stuff like the workings of a Rubik's cube or a watch!  So the only appropriate image I could think for this would be sex.

I remember watching a video about mental development in Psych class, and during the last stage, it showed this artsy video of people having sex.  NOT PORN.  It was like the guy took off his leg and traded it for his girlfriends arm, and the girl took off her foot and traded it for the guys torso, it was kinda cool.  But yeah, at the end they both eventually became one person.  Which is kinda cool because the last three measures of the piece would like depict two people becoming one body perfectly!  

So THAT'S my image of the fugue.  It's like that video that I saw in psych class, except a little more mature.  It looks like a little kid did the art.  




But ANYWAYS, I need your criticism because this is still unfinished business.  Especially for the fugue.  Did I hold my voices well enough?

Bach...  If you're reading this, this doesn't mean that I like you, got it?!  So don't get too friendly with me kid!!!  You may have won the battle...  But you have not won the war!!!  

[49410enrique]

first listen.


reserve further comment for when i'm able to 'actively listen' to see what constructive critiques i can give. but first impression is soooo good. right on man, if i didn't know your preferrences you could fool me into thinking you like Bach with this!

[davidjosepha]

I really liked the fugue, although I noticed there seemed to be a lot of pedal, something I don't particularly like, but it's up to you, of course.

The prelude was fine and well executed, but it felt a little dry in some spots. Maybe try working more with bringing out the parts that are "8-16-16-8-8-8-8" (I hope you understand what I'm talking about) and keep the solid 16th note parts quieter, except maybe the notes that are changing in those 16th note sections, particularly the bottom ones.

Good work though!

EDIT: After listening again on a better sound system, I realized you actually brought out that pattern very well. Ignore what I said!

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I really liked the fugue, although I noticed there seemed to be a lot of pedal, something I don't particularly like, but it's up to you, of course.

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!   

It's so freaking hard not to use pedal!  I agree with you, I thought that I used too much pedal.  I think that with Bach, you're supposed to use pedal as seldom as possible.  But yeah, the notes were drenched especially on bars 7, 18, 28, and somewhere near the end.  It's so freaking hard to maintain all the voices without using pedal!   

[davidjosepha]

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!   

It's so freaking hard not to use pedal!  I agree with you, I thought that I used too much pedal.  I think that with Bach, you're supposed to use pedal as seldom as possible.  But yeah, the notes were drenched especially on bars 7, 18, 28, and somewhere near the end.  It's so freaking hard to maintain all the voices without using pedal!   

Haha trust me, I know! I've been messing around with this fugue for a while, but I haven't worked too hard on it, and there are some measures that are very difficult to play without using pedal. Personally, I think it sounds better without pedal, but it's also very hard to execute correctly without the pedal, so it's a trade-off. While I think less pedal would have been better, I don't think it detracted too much from the overall performance.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I think it sounds better without pedal, but it's also very hard to execute correctly without the pedal, so it's a trade-off.

Having big hands definitely helps out with the pedal issue.  I'm about to go listen to yours in a sec.  I can't hear it on my computer so I'll have to listen to it on my iPad.  After I eat a hotdog and take a bath.

[davidjosepha]

Having big hands definitely helps out with the pedal issue.  I'm about to go listen to yours in a sec.  I can't hear it on my computer so I'll have to listen to it on my iPad.  After I eat a hodog and take a bath.

I didn't record the fugue, so you won't get to compare that one (you wouldn't want to anyway, I can't play it well yet). The prelude I recorded at the end of my practice session when my hands were tired so it's not my best work, but it's pretty representative of how I usually play it. Your version of the prelude is better, but I'd like to get some feedback on what I should do to improve mine.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

reserve further comment for when i'm able to 'actively listen' to see what constructive critiques i can give. but first impression is soooo good. right on man, if i didn't know your preferrences you could fool me into thinking you like Bach with this!

Please dude.

If it sucks so bad that I should quit piano, then say it.  If it's so good that it can create world peace, then say it.  

No but yeah, I need some work to do, especially on the fugue.  My teacher is in California right now so I can't really do anything.  And I don't want him to rage at me again.   

[emill]

I LIKED IT ... both the prelude and fugue .... thanks!

I just don't know, but I feel pianists demand too much from themselves and remove the "fun" from learning and playing the piece. Too many these and thats and a perfectionist attitude probably hinder pure enjoyment as I am sure no one can come to the perfection level he strives for.  Believe me 99% of the audience would not have cared nor noticed whether you reduced or increased your pedal use.  Indeed pianists are are different kind of "animal" .... I should know....

[andhow04]

this prelude and fugue seems to be popular, there is another recording thats current that i commented on, and there was another one bya  young person maybe a month or so ago that unfortunately didn't get too many comments.

first of all i didn't read your whole description because it is very personal, i did however see the word sex, but i commend you because an analysis of a piece should alwyas include a poetic interpretation. also, because i have always sensed a depiction in bach's music of the -visual- aspect of dancing, and you clearly sensed that too. in other words there is something about some of bach's music that strikes me as impressionistic. it has a visual element, and rarely have i found anyone that has been able to commune with me on this. i congratulate you for articulating it!

the prelude is a little rough for my taste, if you do imagine the dance, why can't it be more elegant?  i also found your voicing extreme.  for instance in the first page, when the right breaks into sixteenth notes but the left hand continues the main idea, you blot out the right hand entirely to make the main idea obvious.  but the right hand adds not just one voice, but two voices to the mix, no matter how it is notated. and to lose both is really to lose interest, honestly. this prelude is interesting not only for the visual dance elemtn, but the rhythmic polyphony which makes it a challenge. i characterize your voicing as "extreme" because i think there can be room to be "creative," and i found your approach opposite to that. its more hindering than creative.

fugue: is also a bit rough around the edges, i think epsecially the ending of phrases, which happen at different times int he voices, need to be rounded off, as to not distract from new entries.  i personally approach this fugue in an organistic way, int eh sense that i imagine there are more tiered dynamics (switching keyboards) and a pedal board (when the subject comes in in the bass after several bars of silence).  i think your dynamic is a bit monotonous. varying it shows the audience the dramatic structyure behind the fugue - which bach always considered. while there are some very academic fugues, i am thinking of d minor from book I especially and some others, most of them, even 95% of them, are dramatic structures.  we have to acknowledge that, and not be too straight-forward, not be too plain.

here is my version of this piece, as i am currently learning the entire 48:
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=44122.0

[starstruck5]

I liked the Prelude -it had individuality -and isn't that what piano playing is supposed to be about?  It sounded as if you really don't like the piece and have to play it because some evil person has blackmailed you into it -tempo-wise it is a bit fast I think and sounds like you want to get it over asap -but I stll liked it -

Will listen to fugue later!

[rachmaninoff_forever]

It sounded as if you really don't like the piece and have to play it because some evil person has blackmailed you into it

sounds like you want to get it over asap

Well...  You know...  If you haven't read any of my other comments about Bach, you should read them now.   

[davidjosepha]

Well...  You know...  If you haven't read any of my other comments about Bach, you should read them now.   

What other comments? Have you expressed any strong feelings either way on the subject of Bach and his music?

[ajspiano]

Have you expressed any strong feelings either way on the subject of Bach and his music?

lol

Just curious about what's everyone's belief system here. 
I'm a worshipper of Bach...  but only out of fear.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

lol

Hey those aren't strong feelings!  I have no feelings for him at all!  I only worship him to get him to bestow upon me the ability properly play his music.  Which he obviously failed at!  How incompetent of him... 

No but yeah, I don't worship Bach out of love!  Are you kidding me?! I do it out of personal gain and fear!

As a matter of fact,  I...  I...  I...
...
As a matter of fact, I...  What the heck is going on?  I say this all the time!  Why can't I say it now?!  What in the world is going on here?!!?!!

[j_menz]

I have no idea how I missed noticing you had posted this. 

For someone who doesn't "get" Bach, it's actually pretty good. 

That said, I get the impression that you have worked very hard on this and on the voicings and balance between them, but you still don't have the flow of each voice. It still sounds like a series of snapshots, rather than intertwining flows. But I actually think you're pretty damn close to making that breakthrough; just within your sights, so to speak. You can almost see it, almost taste it.

And when you do, this is going to be pretty awesome.

My only advice at present is to slow it down a bit. Especially the prelude. That will help with the above. Once you cross that threshhold, you can make up your own mind re tempo.

[j_menz]

As a matter of fact, I...  What the heck is going on?  I say this all the time!  Why can't I say it now?!  What in the world is going on here?!!?!!

Saint Paul, Damascus, Road .... 

[starstruck5]

Having big hands definitely helps out with the pedal issue.  I'm about to go listen to yours in a sec.  I can't hear it on my computer so I'll have to listen to it on my iPad.  After I eat a hodog and take a bath.

What is a hodog -is this some poodle which happens to be a hooker -??? I think you should give up playing Bach if it brings out these perversions.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

What is a hodog -is this some poodle which happens to be a hooker -??? I think you should give up playing Bach if it brings out these perversions.

What the heck are you talking about?!

Like Dude...  What?!  I'm like...  Dude what the heck is going on here?!  Who are you?!  What the heck?!  A hotdog is...  Dude what the heck?!  What the freaking heck is going on here?!  Where the heck did you get that from?!  You don't know what a hotdog is?!

I said my image of the fugue sex and being thankful, but I DID NOT mean porn!  Just read the description I posted.

[starstruck5]

What the heck are you talking about?!

Like Dude...  What?!  I'm like...  Dude what the heck is going on here?!  Who are you?!  What the heck?!  A hotdog is...  Dude what the heck?!  What the freaking heck is going on here?!  Where the heck did you get that from?!  You don't know what a hotdog is?!

I said my image of the fugue sex and being thankful, but I DID NOT mean porn!  Just read the description I posted.

I know what a hotdog is -as disgusting as they are -but you said a hodog -that t makes a lot of difference ya know.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I know what a hotdog is -as disgusting as they are

You don't eat them? 

Looks like I'm more suited for survival than you... 

[49410enrique]

Please dude.

If it sucks so bad that I should quit piano, then say it.  If it's so good that it can create world peace, then say it.  

No but yeah, I need some work to do, especially on the fugue.  My teacher is in California right now so I can't really do anything.  And I don't want him to rage at me again.   

dude i'm way sorry you misunderstood my comment. that's waht i did. i said i liked it and it was good. i just further stated that i couldn't give any super specific critique as i didnt have score in hand and was otherwise a bit tied up (finishing two 20 plus page research papers that were due asap).

so totally my bad on that, i thought the fun pic would show my goodwill and otherwise kind hearted comment.
 

i'm just not super familiar with the work so as soon as i can finish my practicing for this end of semester lessons performance i want to sit down and take a gander and listen to it again.


oh, and i got what starsruck5 was getting at. you did type hodog, not hotdog, i'm glad you cleared it up to, i wasn't sure if it was a typo or of this was some new slang way of saying 'hobag' which i'd heard before but never hodog. but maybe you're on to something and have coined the next entry in the 'urban dictionary' (https://www.urbandictionary.com/ )