\"\"
Piano Forum logo

Ignorance (Read 1529 times)

Offline perprocrastinate

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 612
Ignorance
« on: November 24, 2012, 10:21:23 PM »
No, this isn't a thread for complaining about people.

Did you ever, at one time, make the generalization that all slow pieces were easy? That if it didn't have five-octave spiraling arpeggios, scales at 200 BPM sprawling all over the piano, or dense chords creating a massive reverberation in the bass, it was easy?

Although I've gotten over my obsession with technical antics a while ago, I can't believe that I haven't discovered how brilliant Chopin's fourth Ballade in F minor is until last week.

Offline j_menz

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10150
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #1 on: November 24, 2012, 10:32:57 PM »
Did you ever, at one time, make the generalization that all slow pieces were easy?

Common beginner mistake No 2. Some people hold it well into their advanced years, though.

Slow pieces are as hard, and frequently harder than fast ones, and there are often fewer places to hide.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4903
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #2 on: November 24, 2012, 10:37:27 PM »
I feel like slower pieces I get more memory slips because you can't really go with the flow and you're more susceptible to over thinking and second guessing yourself.

Unless if it's a Bach fugue.
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline perprocrastinate

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 612
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #3 on: November 24, 2012, 10:47:32 PM »
Common beginner mistake No 2. Some people hold it well into their advanced years, though.

Slow pieces are as hard, and frequently harder than fast ones, and there are often fewer places to hide.

Damn, you quoted my embarrassing grammar mistake.

What's the common beginner mistake No. 1? Overestimating oneself?  ;D

Offline j_menz

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10150
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #4 on: November 24, 2012, 11:04:19 PM »
Damn, you quoted my embarrassing grammar mistake.

Fixed. Including the one you left.  :P


What's the common beginner mistake No. 1? Overestimating oneself?  ;D

Thinking that somewhere around grade 8 they'll have mastered it and be able to play everything.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4903
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #5 on: November 24, 2012, 11:23:10 PM »

Thinking that somewhere around grade 8 they'll have mastered it and be able to play everything.

Hey remember that thread I made where this guy caught every STD because he passed grade 8 and thought he was on so he tried Prokofiev's second piano concerto?

Ah, the good times... ::)
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline perprocrastinate

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 612
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #6 on: November 24, 2012, 11:24:32 PM »
Hey remember that thread I made where this guy caught every STD because he passed grade 8 and thought he was on so he tried Prokofiev's second piano concerto?

Ah, the good times... ::)

LOL, that was memorable. Your post was probably one of the funniest things I've read on this forum.

Offline j_menz

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10150
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #7 on: November 25, 2012, 12:09:34 AM »
Hey remember that thread I made where this guy caught every STD because he passed grade 8 and thought he was on so he tried Prokofiev's second piano concerto?

Fondly.

When I started I was actually worse. I had the first three John Thompson books, and since the last was clearly impossible I figured that was it. Three books and Carnegie Hall would be calling me.  ;D
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline chopin2015

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2134
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #8 on: November 25, 2012, 02:55:01 AM »
Rach_forevs, could you elaborate? It sounds like a very amusing story, and full of lessons.
"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline thesuineg

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 92
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #9 on: November 25, 2012, 11:21:28 AM »
Really? stuff like that's been so hammered into me that i thought that all hard-sounding pieces were easier than slow peaceful ones.lol...

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4903
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #10 on: November 25, 2012, 01:42:56 PM »
Rach_forevs, could you elaborate? It sounds like a very amusing story, and full of lessons.

Let me see if I can find it.
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4903
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #11 on: November 25, 2012, 01:46:05 PM »
Rach_forevs, could you elaborate? It sounds like a very amusing story, and full of lessons.



Student:  omg omg omg omg omg omg guess what happened!!!

Teacher:  *sigh* what now...

Student:  okay, so I just passed my grade 8 exam!!!  So that means that I can play anything in grade 8!!!  Which means that if it's in grade 8, then I can play it!  So in conclusion, I don't have to worry about whether or not something is playable for me.  Which leads to my other statement that if I'm playing something and I don't know what grade it's in, then it doesn't matter.  Which brings me to my next point that if I'm playing something in grade 8, then I don't have anything to worry about!  All of this is because I just passed my grade 8 exam!  If I failed, then I wouldn't be able to play anything in grade 8 because I wouldn't be good enough!  So in essence, due to the fact that I pas-

Teacher:  okay okay shut up!!!  

Student:  isn't that awesome?

Teacher:  cool story bro, say it again...

Student:  okay, so I just passed my grade 8 exam!!!  So that means that I can play anyth-

Teacher:  shut up!!!  If you say another thing about this grade 8 exam again, I'm gonna wring your neck!  Now hurry up and play this Rachmaninoff for me.     

*playing some Rachmaninoff prelude*

Teacher:  wow, you play this pretty well

Student:  that's because I passed my grade 8 exam!  If I didn't then I wouldn-

Teacher:  GET OUT OF MY HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!     

*later on that week, while looking for some new grade 8 pieces to play*

Student:  wow I can't believe I passed grade 8!  Hmmm I wonder what to play though, Prokofiev's second piano concerto, or Chopin's revolutionary etude?  They're both grade 8, so neither of them should be a problem for me!  I'll try Prokofiev's second piano concerto!  

*next piano lesson*

Student:  I'm going to learn this

*shows teacher the score for Prokofiev's second*

Teacher:  you're joking... Right?

student:  no, I'm serious!  I COULDN'T TELL WHICH ONE WAS HARDER BETWEEN REVOLUTIONRY ETUDE OR PROKOFIEV'S SECOND PIANO CONCERTO BECAUSE THEY'RE BOTH GRADE 8, SO I'LL JUST DIVE IN TO PROKOFIEV'S SECOND.

Teacher: *there's no way he's gonna try this.  Does he think he's cool or something?*:  knock yourself out kid...  Idiot...

Student: what?

Teacher:  Oh, it's nothing...  Just nothing...

*some considerable amount of time later in the hospital*

Doctor:  well, it seems like you've shattered all of your fingers in 36 or more different places, fractured your skull, ripped out your tongue, broke all of your teeth, broke your nose, broke your face, broke both of your forearms in 29 places, dislocated your left wrist, Burnt your right wrist to the third degree, dislocated your hip into your spinal chord, blew up your right foot, broke three ribs so that they're now puncturing your heart, *deeeeeeep breath* AND you've somehow managed to contract every sexually transmitted disease known to man, the Ebola virus, bird flu, swine flu, osteomyelitis, osteoporosis, carpal tunnel, arthritis, elephantiasis in the hands, AND, aaaah forget it, I'm done.  What were you doing anyway?

Student:  I was practicing Prokofiev's piano concerto after I finished my grade 8 exam because I thought that it wouldn't be too hard because it's ranked as grade 8.

Doctor:  WHAT?!??  Are you freaking crazy?!  Of course this would happen to you!   . Well, I have good news and bad news: we can fix all of your illnesses...  But I can't fix your fingers that are broken in 36 different places, or any piano playing related injury or disease so you can't play the piano anymore.

Student: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!  I feel soo salty!!!!!     Is this what Scriabin felt like after he damaged his hand?  Or is this what Rachmaninoff felt when Tchaikovsky died?  Why me?!?!?!?!?     

Teacher:  yes!!!  I don't have to teach this idiot anymore!!!  Whoho!!!       

Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline perprocrastinate

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 612
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #12 on: November 25, 2012, 03:13:47 PM »

Offline starlady

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #13 on: November 25, 2012, 03:57:02 PM »

 
"Yep, I got this nasty STD from playing the piano. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!" ;D  ;D

Offline chopin2015

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2134
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #14 on: November 25, 2012, 05:29:28 PM »
hahaahha! wow rach! That was a great story, I love how carpal tunnel was one of the last symptoms to be listed, "if you try this concerto, carpal tunnel will be the least of your problems with what you're gonna get!"

I totally agree with you guys though about the difficulty of works(at grade 8, I usually go by length then, longer is usually harder and takes longer to learn for me.)
 But didn't you try the Rach concerto, rach? Sometimes if you love something, you just gotta go for it, and you learn stuff either way. But some pieces like romantic sonatas and most concertos are freaking ridiculous. I do not plan on starting a romantic sonata till summer, and a concerto until after that. (Chopin ones, of course.) And I am only this excited because I am on the last page of mephisto valse no 1(3 weeks) and ballade no 2(1 week) I go for memorize first and work on refining technique and notes next. I do not know what I am going to do until the summer.

Does anyone know any good sets of etudes where there are only a few?(less than 12)

"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4903
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #15 on: November 25, 2012, 09:14:20 PM »

 But didn't you try the Rach concerto, rach? Sometimes if you love something, you just gotta go for it, and you learn stuff either way.


I do a little bit every day. ::)

It's like taking vitimans.
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline chopin2015

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2134
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #16 on: November 25, 2012, 10:18:01 PM »
I do a little bit every day. ::)

It's like taking vitimans.

you know any of it yet? :D
"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4903
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #17 on: November 25, 2012, 10:34:02 PM »
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline ajspiano

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3392
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #18 on: November 25, 2012, 10:46:56 PM »
A few pages.
Have you got one of these?
http://musicminusone.com/rachmaninov-concerto-no-3-in-d-minor-op-30-3-cd-set-mmocd3074.html

Includes three digital stereo compact discs, voluminously indexed for your convenience, containing a complete version with soloist; then a second performance of the orchestral accompaniment, minus the soloist; and a -25% reduced-tempo version of the accompaniment for practice purposes.

Offline j_menz

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10150
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #19 on: November 25, 2012, 11:14:53 PM »
Does anyone know any good sets of etudes where there are only a few?(less than 12)

Chopin's Trois Nouvelle Etudes should appeal.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline j_menz

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10150
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #20 on: November 25, 2012, 11:17:51 PM »
Have you got one of these?

I've never actually tried any of those, though the idea appeals in many ways. The issue I have is that you are locked in to an orchestral interpretation that you pretty much have to live with. Even if you have different ideas.  I know some conductors can be dictatorial,  but even the worst have to allow a little flexibility.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline ajspiano

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3392
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #21 on: November 25, 2012, 11:26:54 PM »
I've never actually tried any of those, though the idea appeals in many ways. The issue I have is that you are locked in to an orchestral interpretation that you pretty much have to live with. Even if you have different ideas.  I know some conductors can be dictatorial,  but even the worst have to allow a little flexibility.

I would probably like to have a few different ones..

also, don't know what rach's experience is as far as playing with other musicians..  or if he's ever played with an orchestra..  and the piece kind of lacks something without one..    I've come across a few pianists that could play solo just fine, even in time with a metronome.. but absolutely failed to keep in time with other musicians and the tempo fluctuations by listening to the music.

Offline j_menz

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10150
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #22 on: November 25, 2012, 11:34:17 PM »
I've come across a few pianists that could play solo just fine, even in time with a metronome.. but absolutely failed to keep in time with other musicians and the tempo fluctuations by listening to the music.

If you're famous enough, the orchestra has to keep in time with you, and the public blame them if they don't.

EDIT: How famous that is depends on the orchestra in question.  No-one is famous enough for the BPO.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4903
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #23 on: November 25, 2012, 11:36:29 PM »
I would probably like to have a few different ones..

also, don't know what rach's experience is as far as playing with other musicians..  or if he's ever played with an orchestra..  and the piece kind of lacks something without one..    I've come across a few pianists that could play solo just fine, even in time with a metronome.. but absolutely failed to keep in time with other musicians and the tempo fluctuations by listening to the music.

I used to play trumpet a couple years ago in band, and like last week I had to accompany a singer for something in school. 
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline ajspiano

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3392
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #24 on: November 25, 2012, 11:39:58 PM »
If you're famous enough, the orchestra has to keep in time with you, and the public blame them if they don't.

EDIT: How famous that is depends on the orchestra in question.  No-one is famous enough for the BPO.

LOL - I'm not sure you get that famous by playing out of time at recitals..   and based on my experience with lesser orchestras you may have to listen very intently since they may go off on their own tangent regardless of the conductor.

Offline chopin2015

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2134
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #25 on: November 25, 2012, 11:43:57 PM »
Although Lisitsa's 3rd Rach was a disaster-imo...When she practiced solo she used ques like tam tam and dam dam when the orchestra hits were important. It was very helpful.
"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4903
Re: Ignorance
«Reply #26 on: November 25, 2012, 11:47:20 PM »
Although Lisitsa's 3rd Rach was a disaster-imo...When she practiced solo she used ques like tam tam and dam dam when the orchestra hits were important. It was very helpful.

Yes, that and her Royal Albert hall debut was a disaster.

The audio quality was horrendous for the Rach 3, and the audience picked the worst pieces for her Royal Albert hall debut.
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.