VOTE : PS Competition, Round 1 - Performances

[ajspiano]

VOTING IS NOW CLOSED, please no more PM's.. you can see the results by clicking the link below.
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=49444.msg541398#msg541398


Hi everyone,

So time has marched on and we have reached the 'judging/disscussion' part of our little experiement.

Contained in this post are the videos or recordings that I have received to date.

The following people have not submitted a performance, nor have they told me they were not going to. *disappointed face.


Chapplin
cpessimist
black_keys

^you guys can still PM me something within the next few days but I'm docking you a vote per day later than the 1st of Jan.

Rachmaninoff_forever. - Your video is set to private. Stop being such a chicken.

WHO WILL WIN -
The champion whom earns the right to display their name as competition winner in their sig will be decided by a combination of VOTING and lostinidlewonder's (and my own) official adjudications.

HOW TO VOTE -
1st and foremost - PM me...  though feel free to discuss performances below.
Vote for the set work and the own choice as two different items..  your PM should look like this
Feel free to copy it as a template.

oh yes, and put "VOTE" in the subject line or something..  my PM inbox is messy enough as it is.

PIANO-STREET COMPETITION VOTE
SET PIECE
[Insert performer name] - 3 votes
[Insert performer name] - 2 votes
[Insert performer name] - 1 votes

OWN CHOICE
[Insert performer name] - 3 votes
[Insert performer name] - 2 votes
[Insert performer name] - 1 votes

^where 3 votes is your favoured performer.

Other voting rule - PLEASE listen/watch ALL entries and think about it sincerely, feel free to use the ATTACHED JUDGING TEMPLATE FORM to help you decide. If you are willing/able to give constructive criticism in a polite manner please feel free to post that below.

COMPLETED PERFORMANCES - if I've some how managed to miss you and you think I should have received a video from you please post "Check your inbox you unobservant fool" below.

m1469

Tchaikovsky Op 39. No. 21
 https://www.box.com/s/wu8f0ofnakbk6t8gwwdb

….....................

Littletune

Tchaikovsky Op. 39 No. 21

&feature=youtu.be

Chopin Waltz - opus posth. (a minor)

….....................

andreslr6

Tchaikovsky Op. 39 No. 21 & Prokofiev – Visions Fugitive Op. 22 No. 2

&feature=youtu.be

….....................

j_menz

Tchaikovsky Op. 39 No. 21

Schumann Op. 68 No 21

….....................

Costicina (Costanza)

Tchaikovsky Op 39. No. 21

Bach, Invention No 8.

….....................

Keypeg

Tchaikovsky Op 39. No. 21
https://www.box.com/shared/static/w2e5cxndfml0xzadazq9.mp3

….....................

fleetfingers

Tchaikovsky Op 39. No. 21

&feature=youtu.be

….....................

johnmar78

Tchaikovsky Op 39. No. 21

Schumann - Traumerei

….....................





THANKYOU and WELL DONE to all participants. Happy piano-ing.

Oh yeh.. and I'm giving a REALLY awesome CD to the the winner of each piece, assuming that you're willing to PM me your postal address. Voting is open for two weeks starting today. GET IN QUICK.

..and if you've got this far and don't know what I'm on about, go here to read the comp entries original post.
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=48660.0

[andreslr6]

Good job everyone!

[m1469]

It's amazing how similar mine and keypeg's are.  Complete with the slightly miss-voiced chords at the end, and all.  It makes me think the whole thing is BS, actually, and I'll just post my own stuff in the Audition Room.

[keypeg]

It's amazing how similar mine and keypeg's are.  Complete with the slightly miss-voiced chords at the end, and all.

Erm ..... I really liked what you did with your chords at the end ... slightly different than mine .... and it seemed perfect.   

[j_menz]

IMO, any similarity is in m1469's imagination.  The pace is about the same, and they have both followed the indicated dynamics, but the two versions are distinctly quite different. And, no, I don't just mean the piano tone.

[ajspiano]

well, keypegs link states that it was uploaded 2 days ago..  

Also, here's my PM folder dates for the last few messages..

   January 02, 2013, 01:11:19 AM   Tchaikovsky   m1469   
   January 01, 2013, 02:11:17 AM   (No subject)   rachmaninoff_forever   
   January 01, 2013, 01:58:11 AM   PS competition   littletune   
   January 01, 2013, 12:51:59 AM   very last (sorry)   keypeg

^But I jest, its a scam.. this is how much effort I'm going to for keypeg to ensure he gets to copy mayla's recording.. which wouldnt even guarentee a win since its public vote.. and incidently..m1469is currently ahead of keypeg on the votes..

 

[ajspiano]

Great, well I guess we can either expect (hope for) an apology..   or we can expect keypeg to disclose assembly instructions for the time travel device geeks everywhere are waiting for.

[lostinidlewonder]

Great effort everyone for the 1st competition, nice work!

General comments:

The quality of recordings where all at an acceptable level which was really great to hear. None of them really masked or distorted the sound to a great extent.

Note accuracy from everyone was commendable also.

All of you chose the simplify the pedaling syncopating it every bar. It might be of interest to look into how to phrase the LH rests with the pedal.

When dealing with crescendos start softer at the beginning so that you can become louder, and with decrescendos start louder so you can become softer.

Phrasing in music is often solved by singing the passage with your own voice. Where you can sing a phrase in one breath you should also aim to do the same when you play it on the keyboard and not take unnecessary breaths. Breath with the Legato ties.


Please do not take my comments too seriously. All my comments are my opinion and certainly other people will have different takes on things. I didn't want to highlight every issue I had with the pieces as I would be writing more than a page of writing for each person which is think is unnecessary. I tried to highlight the points which stuck out to me most obviously on first listening. I tend to focus on critique and I am known as a tough marker. I provided an estimated mark out of 100 for interest sake.

My score out of 100 can be deceiving I guess.... to me this is how the marks feel based on technical presentation and musical expression.

0-10 You played most of the notes wrong and stopped many times.
10-30 A number of mistakes but some parts could be heard without note error.
30-40 Most of the notes are correct expression is lacking
40-50 Almost all the notes correct with touches of expression
50-60 No mistakes really interrupt the presentation, moderate amount of expression
60-70 Consistently clean presentation, good expression.
70-80 Commanding presentation with high level of expression
80-90 Effortless execution to produce very desirable sound.
90-100 High class professional presentation with flawless and/or unique expression that changes the way in which I see the piece.




SET PIECE:
m1469:
The melody was mostly loud and thus cres/decres passages where not obvious enough. The accents didn't feel like they where standing above the rest.

The pedaling touches was also simplified (syncopated every bar) which produced a phrasing which neglects the LH rests. The phrasing of the LH was a little erratic when it took over the melody (notably Bar 27/28). I finally got to hear some type of volume shades near the end four bars which was nice it would have been nice to hear it more throughout. I would have liked to hear a little more to the poco rits and then following a tempos might be more effective then.

The 2nd time we come back to the opening theme you are effecting the melodic lines with more broadening touches which made the playing sound more expressive compared to the first one where you played it more strictly and at a slightly faster tempo. The second time round Lh was slightly loose on a couple of chords and they sounded slightly disjoint (Eg last Lh chord in Bar 44).
59/100



Keypeg:
Some volume contrast between p and f where clear however the mf sounded like f. With the opening crescendos start softer than you normally would and get louder, I didn't quite hear the rises at the start because a p touch wasn't immediately established. Some uneven chords like in Bar 32. Bar 21-24 you brought it up to this climax and drew away from it not too badly I thought although the digital made the forte sound a little harsh. Phrasing was consistent although pedaling was simplified.
65/100


Littletune:
Tempo was slow, playing is too even the melodic lines are challenged by the support which is what you want to avoid. It doesn't seem you have worked out yet in this recording the volume touches and expressive tempo controls and it is the notes you are concerned with. Pedaling was also simplified.
35/100


andreslr6:
I got a sense of rushing through this piece. It doesn't seem like volume control has been solved yet it seemed too one dimensional loud. Melodic line stood out above the support, the pedaling was also simplified.  When the Lh plays the Melodic lines in bar 17 and 25  the 2nd crotchet loses its sound abruptly making the phrase have a strange shortened sound on that note and it does it both times. I dunno if that note is actually broken on your piano or what but the dampener seemed to have caught it producing a strange sound every time.
45/100


j_menz
Dragging tempo. I tend to hear the Lh coming in slightly before the RH when they where supposed to be together. It is ok to do this now and then but I felt it was over used. Accents where not worked out. A tempo was not really effective enough. Phrasing needs adjustment like in bar 47-48 in the Rh I heard the phrasing like: (Crotchet quaver quaver)  (Quaver quaver)  (Minum) where it all should be connected together but you chose to segment it. You had a gentle touch throughout and there was no sense of harshness in your playing.
49/100


Costicina (Costanza)
Pleasant sound. Volume was generally at a moderate level, I didn't notice much difference between p and f sections. It didn't seem that you quite solved the ending of the phrases at (bar 24, 32). Your phrasing is good the only parts I have a bit to pick on is the repeated notes in the melody (repeated notes on semiquaver to crotchet or semiquaver to minum). Try to connect them to a single phrase not take a breath in between them. Your recording was the only one to exaggerate the small subtle phrase found in bars 8 and 40 although I found they could be slightly less exaggerated.
56/100

Fleetfingers:
Overall the tempo was too well measured. The opening cresendos where not observable start the piece softer to give you that room to increase although I did like how you held back the entry of the accented notes. When the LH took over melodic lines the support and melody where at the same volume level the RH chords seemed a little heavy. Careful when the Lh playing melody that the repeated notes don't have that break in between them. I felt that the piece overall lacked expression, I did notice very subtle effects but they where too small, exaggerate more.
47/100


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OWN SELECTION:

Costicina (Costanza)
Bach, Invention No 8.
A slightly slower and more careful tempo than what I am used to hearing which shaved off a lot of the excitement that this piece can produce. Overall ok controlled but there where a few minor parts which where not quite clear with missed notes which is extremely obvious in part writing like this. The standard interpretation of legato semiquavers vs staccato quavers was overall well controlled.
58/100

j_menz
Schumann Op. 68 No 21
Tempo is too slow, this makes score indications to slow down further too difficult to notice in this recording it also drags the phrases and rhythm. The melodic line also suffers from over elongation, with the piano the tone starts to vanish as soon as you hit the note. Schumann was a master melody writer and his melody needs to be overdone and brought to the front. At this slow tempo I found that this caused the strong melodic lines to suffer from the natural decay of sound in the piano. If you choose to play this piece at this slow tempo then the fill in notes need to be a lot gentler to give the effect of the melodic lines always being superior.
45/100


Littletune
Chopin Waltz - opus posth. (a minor)
I felt that the tempo chosen was a little slow. Nice to hear some musical playing here compared to your set piece. Try to find a more softer touch to your melodic lines so that when you increase in volume it is easier and doesn't become harsh. Work on your ornamentation make it more lighter.
49/100

andreslr6
Prokofiev – Visions Fugitive Op. 22 No. 2
Brought me to a dark place this piece, mysterious and spooky. Nice to hear your p touches in effect here, although you did ignore some soft touches like in bar 7-10 where you chose a louder sinister sound compared to a softer interpretation also the ending chord. I liked how you layered this piece with the voices clearly phrased.
69/100

[outin]

You people have done very well, it will be hard to decide...

And please everyone, don't let this nonsense affect your voting! Something like this belongs to competitions I guess 

[andreslr6]

andreslr6:
I got a sense of rushing through this piece. It doesn't seem like volume control has been solved yet it seemed too one dimensional loud. Melodic line stood out above the support, the pedaling was also simplified.  Phrasing was disjoint and missed notes in a few places which produced an unorthodox sound.  
45/100

What do you mean with "missed notes in a few places which produced an unorthodox sound." do you mean it as in that they didn't sound or that I played wrong notes? No offense taken nor meaning to take an aggressive stance, just curious on what you meant because I'm willing to defend that I'm like 99.9% sure I didn't play any wrong notes in the Tchaikovsky*, but maybe I read some notes wrong , but if I'm right I just want to make sure I won't loose any votes because of a confusion

Anyways, I appreciate your comments. Thanks!

* Unless you were referring to Prokofiev, oops!... No, You didn't read this, it's just your imagination... Anyways, it's there to hear

[lostinidlewonder]

What do you mean with "missed notes in a few places which produced an unorthodox sound."

Sorry I should have edited that one. When the Lh plays the Melodic lines in bar 17 and 25  the 2nd crotchet loses its sound abruptly making the phrase have a strange shortened sound on that note and it does it both times. I dunno if that note is actually broken on your piano or what but the dampener seemed to have caught it producing a strange sound every time.

[andreslr6]

Sorry I should have edited that one. When the Lh plays the Melodic lines in bar 17 and 25  the 2nd crotchet loses its sound abruptly making the phrase have a strange shortened sound on that note and it does it both times. I dunno if that note is actually broken on your piano or what but the dampener seemed to have caught it producing a strange sound every time.

Oh ok, yeah , it's my piano malfunctioning but I could have managed to do something there. Anyways, that's not a excuse for me now that the competition has started and I posted the video, so to everyone else, ignore this comment and judge based on the video only .

But thanks again, lostinidlewonder.

[littletune]

Good morning! Or not so very good... what has happened here?!   I don't get it!

Littletune:
Tempo was slow, playing is too even the melodic lines are challenged by the support which is what you want to avoid. It doesn't seem you have worked out yet in this recording the volume touches and expressive tempo controls and it is the notes you are concerned with. Pedaling was also simplified.
35/100

I knew I would be in the last place! I'm always right!  
But... no I am not concerned with the notes at all! I know this piece for at least half a year already (i played it for my exam in June) and I don't have a problem remembering the right notes - if that's what you mean... if you think I have problems with notes here you better not even watch the second one!     No I really don't know I guess I'm just too awkward or something... or it's my piano, which I don't really want to say cause it will look like I'm making excuses but it was much much easier playing the right dynamics and everything at my exam on the grand pianos. But I love my piano... and I love this piece and I think I know how it should sound but I guess it just doesn't come out right... out of my hands....... what can you do....

[j_menz]

j_menz
Dragging tempo.

I rather strongly suspected you would choke on that.

[j_menz]

If I'm wrong, then I guess I'm a huge idiot (except for the fact that circumstances and it being the internet makes it fairly understandable) and I do apologize.  

You are. Yep (and they don't). Good.

[lostinidlewonder]

But... no I am not concerned with the notes at all!

Sorry littletune I should have been a little clearer. It seemed to me that in this recording it is just the notes though. You have that fine, I didn't mean to say you played wrong notes or have trouble with the notes, not at all. But the expression, the feeling needs to be put into it now, I couldn't really detect a voice and rather was caught up listening to just the notes.

...it was much much easier playing the right dynamics and everything at my exam on the grand pianos. But I love my piano... and I love this piece and I think I know how it should sound but I guess it just doesn't come out right... out of my hands....... what can you do....

I am sure this recording is not your best attempt we can't expect to always capture our best attempt on record. You have at least the basis for playing the piece, now comes the fun part of adding the expression and forgetting about the notes.

[lostinidlewonder]

Oh ok, yeah , it's my piano malfunctioning but I could have managed to do something there. Anyways, that's not a excuse for me now that the competition has started and I posted the video, so to everyone else, ignore this comment and judge based on the video only .

But thanks again, lostinidlewonder.

Your welcome thanks to you and everyone else for sharing the music!

Yeah I couldn't quite express in words the sound effect that your piano was producing it while listening and forgot to go back and edit what it was. It was only a minor detail anyway, I enjoyed listening to your rendition and probably was a little harsh on you compared to the rest. Probably my bias towards a softer touch with sensitivity.

[lostinidlewonder]

I rather strongly suspected you would choke on that.

Swallow my tongue in a coma or something

[j_menz]

Swallow my tongue in a coma or something

Haha, I suppose that's a fairly extreme way of judge tampering. 

[littletune]

Sorry littletune I should have been a little clearer. It seemed to me that in this recording it is just the notes though. You have that fine, I didn't mean to say you played wrong notes or have trouble with the notes, not at all. But the expression, the feeling needs to be put into it now, I couldn't really detect a voice and rather was caught up listening to just the notes.

I am sure this recording is not your best attempt we can't expect to always capture our best attempt on record. You have at least the basis for playing the piece, now comes the fun part of adding the expression and forgetting about the notes.

Thanks! I guess you're right. The sad part is that I did have fun, I did enjoy it and I thought I could show at least a little what I wanted and how I saw and felt the piece... but I guess not... Maybe I just wasn't in the right mood or I should really start practicing more on the piano without the quiet pedal I don't know. I kinda want to apologize to everyone for posting something that is just notes and nothing else. I mean that's kinda disrespectful to everyone else who posted well prepared pieces. If that's possible could you please remove my links because they're just taking up people's time. But if it has to stay than that's ok too, I don't want to seem like I'm just changing my mind cause things are not the way I want them to be. But whatever you do I am sorry. Good luck everyone and thanks!  

[keypeg]

Listinidlewonder there is a question here:

Some volume contrast between p and f where clear however the mf sounded like f

in regards to their being an "mf".  What I mean is that at the start we were encouraged to look at a version of the score with no dynamic markings and to consider what we would do.  It involved interpretation.  This is also how I understand this music.  I did not follow the dynamic markings, but to a large extent how I saw the piece was similar.  If you think that a certain passage should be played mf because the music calls for it, then that makes sense.  But if it is to be mf because that's what the score says, then this is not what I understood when this was first set up.

For the rest - noted, and thank you.

[lostinidlewonder]

Costicina (Costanza)
Bach, Invention No 8.
A slightly slower and more careful tempo than what I am used to hearing which shaved off a lot of the excitement that this piece can produce. Overall ok controlled but there where a few minor parts which where not quite clear with missed notes which is extremely obvious in part writing like this. The standard interpretation of legato semiquavers vs staccato quavers was overall well controlled.
58/100

j_menz
Schumann Op. 68 No 21
Tempo is too slow, this makes score indications to slow down further too difficult to notice in this recording it also drags the phrases and rhythm. The melodic line also suffers from over elongation of the melody because in the piano the tone starts to vanish as soon as you hit the note. Schumann was a master melody writer and his melody needs to be overdone and brought to the front. At this slow tempo I found that this caused the strong melodic lines to suffer from the natural decay of sound in the piano. If you choose to play this piece at this slow tempo then the fill in notes need to be a lot gentler to give the effect of the melodic lines always being superior.
45/100


Littletune
Chopin Waltz - opus posth. (a minor)
I felt that the tempo chosen was a little slow. Nice to hear some musical playing here compared to your set piece. Try to find a more softer touch to your melodic lines so that when you increase in volume it is easier and doesn't become harsh. Work on your ornamentation make it more lighter.
49/100

andreslr6
Prokofiev – Visions Fugitive Op. 22 No. 2
Brought me to a dark place this piece, mysterious and spooky. Nice to hear your p touches in effect here, although you did ignore some soft touches like in bar 7-10 where you chose a louder sinister sound compared to a softer interpretation also the ending chord. I liked how you layered this piece with the voices clearly phrased.
69/100

[lostinidlewonder]

Listinidlewonder there is a question here:in regards to their being an "mf". ..... I did not follow the dynamic markings, but to a large extent how I saw the piece was similar.  If you think that a certain passage should be played mf because the music calls for it, then that makes sense.  But if it is to be mf because that's what the score says, then this is not what I understood when this was first set up.

For the rest - noted, and thank you.

mf in this piece to me means it's not as loud as the f and not as soft as the p. We have the f and p passages to compare the mf touch to. That is how I see it anyway. It also sounds appropriate to me for the volume to be mf when marked and a pattern I have seen in other pieces too. Of course if we are working from no dynamics I would still suggest that it is a mid volume passage, not as loud as f but not as soft as the p passages. But we don't have to go through that work if it is already marked, we can investigate it and come to an agreement over it faster, rather than discovering it through trial and error or solely on our own musical instinct.

[p2u_]

@ ajspiano & lostinidlewonder

As far as a competition can really be fair, I think it would be a good idea to divide the contestants into 2 level categories and judge them with different criteria. This is not unusual for amateur competitions based on pre-screening.

Up to now, I've listened to all the Tchaikovsky recordings. I'm not going to vote because I don't like deciding other people's fates, but I would like to let everybody know that I have a special weak spot for littletune. The instrument that is out of tune and the recording quality are bad factors, of course, but she's not just playing the notes.

P.S.: I have a winner in mind already, but my judgement of the performances is NOT based upon correct execution of the dynamics.

Paul

[lostinidlewonder]

I hope littletune doesn't take my comments too seriously, I am only one person and I am a pretty tough marker. I did notice in the set piece that there where some soft touches but there needed to be more. Of course its not just notes but that's a quick and bland way of saying, I wanted to hear more variation in the expression.

[p2u_]

I hope littletune doesn't take my comments too seriously, I am only one person and I am a pretty tough marker. I did notice in the set piece that there where some soft touches but there needed to be more. Of course its not just notes but that's a quick and bland way of saying, I wanted to hear more variation in the expression.

I added your work to the adjudication unholeee.

I'm not criticizing you or your judgement, lostinidlewonder.
P.S.: I also think that the specifics should be somehow hidden from public because they are just too personal. I think it is enough to give the end-result to the public and PM the contestants about the specific reasons for their ranking. Should there be any doubt as to fair judging, then another option would be to create a "hidden" forum section where only the contestants and the jury have access to discuss everything openly. I don't know how easily this can be done technically by the admin.

Paul

[keypeg]

Thank you for the feedback, LiW.

[costicina]

Apart from the amazing 'm1469's affaire' (at first I thought it was a joke), I find the mini-competition has reached the goal meant by AJ. At least for me and for Costanza has been a helpful experience.
Thank you so much, LiW, you have been a very fair and conscientious judge. I agree with your remarks and your evaluations. Good job!

[costicina]

But where is Unholeee's performance?

[49410enrique]

dear all contestants,

job well done. be proud of the accomplishment, you are all better musicians and performers becuase of it. with regard to competing, it's a big deal to even enter and follow through, most avoid this and do not.  you showed up. that's rad. i enjoyed listening/watching everyone's music.

amor amor,
49410

[keypeg]

My take on the competition as a whole, which was my first such experience:
It gave a feeling of companionship because we were all struggling with the same thing.  The one BIG learning experience had to do with recording issues.  I learned about compression, distortion, noise reduction, distortion through noise reduction, microphones, microphone placement, that digital pianos can have cables running through the ear phone jack to cut out that distortion.

I will never take the sound quality aspect of a performance for granted again.  And have a new respect for the "techies" who make it happen.

Thank you AJS for thinking this up, and all the work you put into it.  And thank you for all those who gave advice, and of course Lostinidlewonder for your feedback and suggestions throughout.

[littletune]

Up to now, I've listened to all the Tchaikovsky recordings. I'm not going to vote because I don't like deciding other people's fates, but I would like to let everybody know that I have a special weak spot for littletune. The instrument that is out of tune and the recording quality are bad factors, of course, but she's not just playing the notes.

Paul

Thank you Paul for saying that! You are so nice. It means a lot!

xxxx nvm not such a funny joke.

Probably not, but it said a lot... 

[keypeg]

I don't like the idea of competitions and stated that from the very onset.  I participated despite the fact that it became a competition.  A performance for me is when you want to convey something to an audience, it's a kind of sharing - not a thing to be judged.  At the same time, when you get feedback and hear other people's versions, it's a chance to learn new things and try new ideas.  It has nothing to do with "better" and "worse" - find such things destructive which again is why I do't like competitions.

Littletunes, you apologized for submitting your performance --- please don't do that.  Your performance belongs with all of them.  Except for the professionals, we are all students who are growing and learning, and maybe the professionals are also still doing so.  Anyone who worked on it and had the courage to post has a right to be here, and should feel proud of what they have done.

[littletune]

Thank you Keypeg! I think you're right about the competitions! It was very interesting and exciting and encouraging at first but then it turned in the complete opposite for me. But maybe that's how it's gotta be. (at least i'll concentrate more on school now instead of the music things!)

[ajspiano]

I dont think anyone should feel at all discouraged by any marks/comments, the objective here was only to learn..  at least that's what it was for me - maybe you lot are all out to win like cut-throat maniacs.

I rather liked costanza's tchaikovsky, but I'm still yet to really listen to the pack. I'm looking forward to doing that since for me thats where the learning will be - trying to objectively differentiate between performances.

everyone - fleetfingers has PM'd me a performance of the tchaikovsky, i'll link here and add to the OP aswell.

&feature=youtu.be

..also I still haven't heard from rachmaninoff_forever, and am still unable to access his video, - not sure whats up with that.

....................................

In regard to any debate regarding whether things should be posted publicly or sent to me privately and verifying the authenticity. I sincerely hope that we resolved the issue with mayla/keypeg. I have no doubts that keypeg's performance is genuine and I think enough evidence is surely provided publicly to back that position. If there is any dispute later about whether or not I count votes accurately/fairly you're just going to have to live with it because its my thread and I have ZERO interest in declaring a definitive loser/last place performer.

..we're probably all a bunch of losers anyway since we apparently have no life other than pianostreet.  (maybe that's just me? ..not that I care.. you lot are more interesting than most real life people)

[littletune]

Oh no no Aj!!! I never expected to have any chance of winning!!! It wasn't about that at all! I knew all these people were a lot more advanced than me (and had better pianos and recording equipment). The only thing that made me sad and discouraged was that looks like there was NOTHING in my playing at all except the notes! that's what hurt me, it wasn't about being last! But it's ok.

I think it would be better not to ask about the Unholeee's performance... it could get embarrassing!

[ajspiano]

The only thing that made me sad and discouraged was that looks like there was NOTHING in my playing at all except the notes!

I've seen enough from you here and in many other posts to know that you have a MOUNTAIN of music in you and your playing. Bringing it all out is a big lifetime journey that everyone here is still working on.

[littletune]

I've seen enough from you here and in many other posts to know that you have a MOUNTAIN of music in you and your playing. Bringing it all out is a big lifetime journey that everyone here is still working on.

Thank you AJ! I'm glad you think that!!!

[lostinidlewonder]

Thanks keypeg and costicina for your appreciation.

I clearly understand that submissions for competitions are one snippet of someones playing, it does not represent you entirely and completely. I do not step on eggshells when judging and try to have no emotional connection with the competitors, I try to not even think about who is playing, it's just the music.

Please do not get upset over how I phrase my words, I am little offended myself if a competitor is offended by my remarks and carries on, I provided my professional opinion free of charge, if you can't deal with critique then certainly think about in the future about putting yourself into competitions.

Maybe next time submissions can be anon and the winner can just be revealed so people don't have to be upset?

[p2u_]

Please do not get upset over how I phrase my words, I am little offended myself if a competitor is offended by my remarks and carries on, I provided my professional opinion free of charge, if you can't deal with critique then certainly think about in the future about putting yourself into competitions.

Maybe next time submissions can be anon and the winner can just be revealed so people don't have to be upset?

No, no, they don't have to be anonymous. It's the judging proces and all the report details that should be PRIVATE, because those are what can make (especially very young) people upset if you do it in public, not the final ranking. You did a fine job. Congratulations, really!

P.S.: If you allow me, I'll give you my take on littletune's performance.
She didn't actually play "Sweet Dreams" by Tchaikovsky, but rather "Sweet Dreams, My Little Birdie" by littletune with millions of hardly perceicable subtleties. Under the circumstances (with the untuned piano and all), I would have excluded her from participation, but with honorable mention because of what she was able to do with that piece; make it her own.

Paul

[lostinidlewonder]

I find if adjudication was private then this limits the amount of learning gained from this competition. Of course my opinion is only one take on things, but people can read it and make their own ideas over that agreeing or disagreeing either way you learn something. I really don't see why people want to get upset, I think it is much more damaging to say "good job" and mask critique.

[andreslr6]

I find if adjudication was private then this limits the amount of learning gained from this competition. Of course my opinion is only one take on things, but people can read it and make their own ideas over that agreeing or disagreeing either way you learn something. I really don't see why people want to get upset, I think it is much more damaging to say "good job" and mask critique.

I went to a competition last November, and one of the juries was giving his comments on all of the participants publicly with all details, except to the winners, but not because they might get mad but rather because it would have been embarrassing for the winners to be told their weaknesses or details that were missing after they've won, the winners would be commented on private.

[p2u_]

I find if adjudication was private then this limits the amount of learning gained from this competition. Of course my opinion is only one take on things, but people can read it and make their own ideas over that agreeing or disagreeing either way you learn something.

In that case, as a juror, you *have to* phrase your sentences VERY carefully to say what you really mean to avoid ambiguity. Being criticized in public is not easy to handle as it is.

I really don't see why people want to get upset, I think it is much more damaging to say "good job" and mask critique.

Oh, but I certainly wouldn't mask anything. I would not fail to mention, for example, that while she has the temperament of a volcano, she should learn to channel that energy better through her fingers, and not move her whole body on virtually every note, which affects the phrasing, etc. Working with a mirror while maintaining the expression could easily solve this problem, etc.

Paul

[outin]

When comparing the playing of someone not very advanced to people with a lot of experience it's not possible to tell really about what this person could do musically if he/she had the technical/physical skills. One can have a lot of musical ideas and try to bring them out, but because of the limitations of skills they won't come out to the listener.

So if this was a "serious" competition, we would need to have some kind of division according to the "level" of the participants (however that could be defined). But I think this time it was about the experience and sort of a trial run and was very successful as such. I was pleased to see so many participants and all of the performances are finished enough to listen to without having to feel uncomfortable.

Oh, and I still hate the piece and now it's stuck in my head, thanks to listening to the competition performances 

[andreslr6]

Oh, and I still hate the piece and it's still stuck in my head...

I thought I was the only one!

[lostinidlewonder]

In that case, as a juror, you *have to* phrase your sentences VERY carefully to say what you really mean to avoid ambiguity. Being criticized in public is not easy to handle as it is.

I agree that it needs to be done carefully. Everyone who is a part of this I have known through reading their comments in threads here in pianostreet. Usually with competition I have no idea who it is that is playing in front of me but here we all have interacted with each other here in pianostreet over the weeks, months and years. There is a different feel to this because you all are acquaintances. I really don't feel happy if anyone is upset in this competition for any reason because we all are here for fun and learning and we are all are online friends no? My comments are not to be taken as a universal fact, they are just my opinion as a music teacher judging the subjective issue of piano playing. I might add again that I enjoyed listening to EVERYONE.

 *Hugs everyone*

[j_menz]

I thought I was the only one!

Haha, I still hate it, but it never managed to get itself stuck.  That was no doubt part of the problem, but one for which I can now be most grateful. 

[p2u_]

I really don't feel happy if anyone is upset in this competition for any reason because we all are here for fun and learning and we are all are online friends no?

I'll drink to that. Na zdorov'ya! (Russian for "to your health!")

Paul

[costicina]

Na zdorov'ya!

[keypeg]

I believe that feedback was planned to come from three sources: the two judges (AJSpiano and Lostinidlewonder), and members.  For learning and insights in particular, that is an excellent combination.  It's just like if you view a single 2D picture of something you'll get a distortion.  Think of a glass which looks like a circle from the top, but a rectangle from the side.  It is neither, but the two views give you something closer to the real thing.

The two people, LiW and AJS have come from different angles from the very start.  While LiW told us before the submissions about what's written in the score and gave definite ideas of how it might/should/might be played, AJS encouraged us to spend some time ignoring what is in the score, exploring and creating from that exploration.  The COMBINATION of these two angles gives us a view of a glass that is almost 3 dimensional, to use that metaphor.  Once we get AJS' feedback, we will have something much more rounded.  And even that will only be two angles out of many possible angles.

The original idea of everyone being involved gives us something else.  If we think about what we have heard and see what we can see in it, rather than only seeing it through the eyes of the judges, then we will be able to see more.  (Um, that's stating the obvious - but I think there is still something important here.)  People are coming from all kinds of backgrounds, and there might be quite a few perceptions out there that might give us who knows what?  

What I have liked from the beginning, which I think AJS helped set up, was this feeling of collaboration rather than competition.  All of us who are students are on the same journey of learning and gaining skills.  So when one person said "I'm having problems with this thing." others thought "me too", and then ideas were flowing.  This was a positive thing, and it had a warm feeling to it.