Beethoven Sonatas - which one should I play next?

[felipe717]

Hello guys!
I'd like some advices about which movement/sonata I should play now. I can already play these:
* Sonata Op.2 No.1 (1st and 3rd movements)
* Sonata Op.10 No.1 (1st movement)
* Sonata Op.13 Pathetique (all movements (although I still have problems in the 1st))
* Sonata Op.27 No.2 Moonlight (1st and 2nd movements)
* Sonatas Op.49
* Sonata Op. 79 (all movements)

I was thinking on learning one of these:
* Op.2 No.1 (2nd and 4th movements)
* Op.10 No.1 (2nd and 3rd movements)
* Op.14 Nos.1 or 2
* Op.31 No.2 Tempest (2nd movement)

My favorite from these all is the 4th of Op.2 No.1. If it were you, which sonata/movement would you choose? If anyone could tell me any tips, warnings or advices, I'll be grateful!  
After all, sorry about my English, I'm Brazilian...  
At last... Which one should I choose?

Thank you very much!

[teran]

Have you considered Moonlight's 3rd movement?

I mean if you can play all of Pathétique I don't see why you couldn't give it a shot. All the parts that look impressive are not as difficult as they look, if you ask me the most difficult part is from 1:00 to 1:18 in this video.

I mean that may just be my personal strengths and weaknesses coming into play, but yeah I'm just trying to say that especially considering you got a couple sonatas under your belt, which obviously shows you've got considerable keyboard facility, it would be a shame not to finish the piece because you feel it may be out of reach.

Maybe you're selling yourself short!

[felipe717]

Have you considered Moonlight's 3rd movement?

I mean if you can play all of Pathétique I don't see why you couldn't give it a shot. All the parts that look impressive are not as difficult as they look, if you ask me the most difficult part is from 1:00 to 1:18 in this video.

I mean that may just be my personal strengths and weaknesses coming into play, but yeah I'm just trying to say that especially considering you got a couple sonatas under your belt, which obviously shows you've got considerable keyboard facility, it would be a shame not to finish the piece because you feel it may be out of reach.

Maybe you're selling yourself short!

Moonlight 3rd... Oh, God... Well, Pathetique isn't easy. But it isn't hard yet. I mean, I think that Pathetique is way easier than Moonlight. Moonlight's Presto agitato requires both technique and musicality. And it seems to be a great difficulty...
I can play all three movements of Pathetique. Of course, I would be lying if I say that I performed these movements. But I can play 2nd and 3rd with almost no difficulty. But the 1st, for me, is far away of being perfect... I still have many problems in the 1st theme, and mostly in the development.

OK, Moonlight isn't extremely hard. But I think that, for me, it is still a too hard piece. Presto agitato needs a very mature playing, and I play the piano for less than one year - but, of course, I've been playing Beethoven's Sonatas on the keyboard, before. But I'll think about it...
Actually, Moonlight was the first Sonata I knew - I was about 10 years, I think. I studied hard the right hand of the 3rd movement, and I'm pretty sure I can deal with it. The left hand isn't the problem, I can already play a few bars and the Alberti bass is, for me, very easy. But, when I play with both hands, it gets harder, and I have to don't just hit the notes, but make music from them. Actually, I also think that these bars are (among) the most difficult ones. Even playing only with the right hand, I get some problems...
I appreciate your advice, and I'll think about it! I surely would make a video of me playing, but I don't have any decent recorder, so I can't show my performing in some pieces... '-'
But thank you very much! Moonlight Sonata is, after all, a great and really impressive sonata. Perhaps I can play it...?? Maybe.
Thank you very much!! 

[teran]

It's funny, when I told my teacher I wanted to learn Pathétique and a bunch of other sonatas, he told me to do the Moonlight first.

He constantly seems to give the impression that Pathétique is more difficult. Obviously everyone finds different things difficult, but yeah just thought I'd put that out there.

Of course it does require mature playing, but doesn't every sonata? Honestly while I'm not saying the 3rd movement is easy, because it's not, it is definitely technically demanding, it is also quite repetitive, and is very possible to bring up to its ferocious presto tempo by practising very slowly and patiently.

You'll find that a lot of it just fits under the hands very nicely, technique wise it becomes almost automatic, which makes adding all your interpretative thoughts all that much easier.

Also not to mention how impressive it looks to play. Let's not lie and say it isn't immensely satisfying to play virtuosic pieces for the technical aspect. :p

[felipe717]

It's funny, when I told my teacher I wanted to learn Pathétique and a bunch of other sonatas, he told me to do the Moonlight first.

He constantly seems to give the impression that Pathétique is more difficult. Obviously everyone finds different things difficult, but yeah just thought I'd put that out there.

Of course it does require mature playing, but doesn't every sonata? Honestly while I'm not saying the 3rd movement is easy, because it's not, it is definitely technically demanding, it is also quite repetitive, and is very possible to bring up to its ferocious presto tempo by practising very slowly and patiently.

You'll find that a lot of it just fits under the hands very nicely, technique wise it becomes almost automatic, which makes adding all your interpretative thoughts all that much easier.

Also not to mention how impressive it looks to play. Let's not lie and say it isn't immensely satisfying to play virtuosic pieces for the technical aspect. :p

Teran, when I said "mature playing" I was saying that I think that Moonlight requires still more maturity than Pathetique. I mean, Pathetique is hard too, but it's one of the earlier Beethoven's work, and it does require a lot of determination and musical texture. But, on the other side, Moonlight is a later work - and Beethoven's later works are known by being more difficult, because they requires much more feeling, depth and maturity than the earlier ones.
Pathetique, for me, was so hard... I studied for almost 8 hours a day... And the 1st movement isn't good (but I'm glad that I managed to play 2nd and 3rd). I just haven't studied the 1st much more... But I'm sure that with two months, let's say, I could do it.
I know that Moonlight's 3rd isn't neither extremely hard nor easy. And I know what you mean when you say that it's extremely rewarding when you play a virtuosic piece!
I'm jealous that you have a piano teacher...  My teacher is a very good piano player, but I don't have piano classes, but keyboard classes. She is a great player, but she doesn't know much about piano performing... I want to find a piano teacher SOON.
I'm thinking on learning the rest of Op.2 No.1... Moonlight can wait a little longer, until I got that one first. Actually I'm a little confident on learning Moonlight's 3rd.
And the question that remains... Can you play Moonlight??? If you do, you have my eternal admiration! And if you think Pathetique is hard, I'd say to you go on: the 2nd and 3rd movements are easier than they look (at least, for me...)
Oh, God, how music is beautiful... I'm going to improve myself and give my best! Moonlight, I'll try to play you xD
Thank you so much!!!

[j_menz]

Pathetique is ... one of the earlier Beethoven's work.... But, on the other side, Moonlight is a later work

1798 vs 1801.  I wouldn't read too much into that tbh.

[felipe717]

1798 vs 1801.  I wouldn't read too much into that tbh.

When I say "later work" I mean "later than Pathetique" xD
I know, the well-known "Beethoven's later works" are his last Sonatas: from Op.101 on (his last 5 sonatas). When I say that Moonlight is a later work I mean that it's later than Pathetique. Actually, both of them are his earlier works, but Moonlight has much more influences of his later works than Pathetique, because Moonlight requires much more depth and musicality texture.
Of course Pathetique requires that too, but Moonlight has many influences that would be seen on Beethoven's last Sonatas.
Sorry about the misunderstanding.
 

[teran]

I can indeed play the Moonlight.

All the hard work was definitely worth it, and I'm not going to be like one of those people who say it was some 2 week side project. It took a long time, took a lot of patience, and a lot of discipline, but I got there in the end.

Honestly the hardest part of making progress is once you can play the first theme of the exposition, you sort of just feel like a total beast and keep playing that instead of moving on >.>

Good thing I have a teacher who expects at least a little progress every week, and I will say that without his guidance it would have been impossible. So yeah, definitely grateful to him.

Also tbh with regards to depth, I always say if you can recognise the scope, depth, and magnitude of a piece, you're probably fit to have a go at it in that respect.

[felipe717]

I can indeed play the Moonlight.

All the hard work was definitely worth it, and I'm not going to be like one of those people who say it was some 2 week side project. It took a long time, took a lot of patience, and a lot of discipline, but I got there in the end.

Honestly the hardest part of making progress is once you can play the first theme of the exposition, you sort of just feel like a total beast and keep playing that instead of moving on >.>

Good thing I have a teacher who expects at least a little progress every week, and I will say that without his guidance it would have been impossible. So yeah, definitely grateful to him.

Also tbh with regards to depth, I always say if you can recognise the scope, depth, and magnitude of a piece, you're probably fit to have a go at it in that respect.

  Well, you have my respect! Congrats! ^^ I'll try to play Moonlight soon... '-' I hope I will... I can imagine how a teacher can be helpful. All Sonatas that I play, I learned it by myself - in other words, they have lots of mistakes, of course. I try to do my better... u.u
I don't know, but I prefer the 2nd theme of Presto agitato than the 1st... '-' Probably because I can't play any of them, because if I could I'm sure I would think different... xD
I think I can feel the meaning of the piece... the texture and the depth... But it would be think aloud if I said I could really express that. But let's see how I'll do...
Thanks!

[teran]

The more you play a piece the more you learn about it. You learn so much more by playing than you do by just listening alone. You notice so much that you don't necessarily notice by listening.

You also come to greatly admire the incredible expression that some pianists can give to certain passages.

Music is all about constantly learning and evolving, good luck!

[j_menz]

Moonlight has many influences that would be seen on Beethoven's last Sonatas.

None especially so, I think; and no more in any case than the Pathetique.

I note that you've played the Moonlight. Have you played the Pathetique? Or any of the late Sonatas?

[felipe717]

None especially so, I think; and no more in any case than the Pathetique.

I note that you've played the Moonlight. Have you played the Pathetique? Or any of the late Sonatas?

Do you think so??? :x Yes, actually I think that Moonlight has more influence related to the last Sonatas than Pathetique. I've said, both of them, Pathetique and Moonlight, are very vigorous and expressive. But I think that when Beethoven composed Moonlight, he was more "deep", let's say like this, into the music, I think... For me, Moonlight is much more impressive than Pathetique - not saying that Pathetique isn't impressive. And when I listen to the last Sonatas, I think that Moonlight approaches a little more when we talk about expreesion, than Pathetique.
That's just my opinion - IMO, Moonlight is more expressive than Pathetique, and so I said it was "later". But Pathetique was considered a real "big step" when Beethoven composed it (for what I remember...) and it has lots of influences and musicality textures, too.
Yes, I think that Moonlight has some influences when we're talking about expression and musicality. I may be wrong, because I don't play the 3rd movement, but I've heard that Presto agitato is difficult because you must achieve the balance between technique and musicality - and for that I think it has more "influences". Although Pathetique needs a lot of technique and musicality, for me, Moonlight requires still more
But it's just my opinion, and I know that I may be wrong, because, as you asked, I don't play the late sonatas. I play Pathetique, and as the rest of the forum says, I'm starting to think on playing the Moonlight's 3rd (I already play the 1st and 2nd). In my opinion, Moonlight has more vigour and influence that can be related to the late sonatas. But Pathetique is a great and very impressive Sonata, too. So, as I don't play neither all the Moonlight nor the late sonatas, I can't say that I'm right - that's just my opnion.
I'm sorry if I'm being wrong... I've just given my opinions for my listening of the sonatas. But if you can play them, I'm sure that you know way better about this subject!
Thank you!! ^^

[elenka]

I played "Les Adieux" n.26 op. 81 It's challenging and various is one of the 10 most difficult Beethoven's Sonatas

[felipe717]

I played "Les Adieux" n.26 op. 81 It's challenging and various is one of the 10 most difficult Beethoven's Sonatas

  You have my admiration!!! Congratulations, really! If I could, I'd choose Les Adieux, Waldstein or Appassionata but I think they're in a too advanced level for me... :x May I ask, how long did you take to do it? Nevertheless, even if you've taken a month or a year, you have my respect!

[elenka]

  but it doesn't seem to me to have done anything special
Anyway telling the truth I still have to finish the 3 mvt that is the most difficult piece in the Sonata. I started the 1 mvt at the end of october and I've completed it in mid december. Now It's going to get shape by polishing it. The II mvt it's not difficult at all just you have to pay attention at the hidden melodies and the voices you have in the chpords with right hand, it's important to bring up the last note you play with 4 and 5 finger. I think that if you want to study it and prepare a recital or audition you have to work on it for a year, I'd like to play it whenever I will able to try an admission in a music academy

[felipe717]

but it doesn't seem to me to have done anything special
Anyway telling the truth I still have to finish the 3 mvt that is the most difficult piece in the Sonata. I started the 1 mvt at the end of october and I've completed it in mid december. Now It's going to get shape by polishing it. The II mvt it's not difficult at all just you have to pay attention at the hidden melodies and the voices you have in the chpords with right hand, it's important to bring up the last note you play with 4 and 5 finger. I think that if you want to study it and prepare a recital or audition you have to work on it for a year, I'd like to play it whenever I will able to try an admission in a music academy

Don't uderestimate yourself. Just playing Les Adieux is a great - very great - step! Yes, it's one of the 10 hardest Sonatas in my opinion, even though I don't agree with rankings/lists. It must be a rewarding work! I'm jealous
I don't play Les Adieux to say, but I also thought 3rd movement, which is my favorite, was the hardest. Less than 2 months for playing the 1st movement? My sincere congratulations!
The 2nd movement is very good too, and I'll like to play it someday.
If you're trying an admission in a music academy, good luck! But if you can already play part of Les Adieux, I think you have great chances!!! ^^
Thank you

[felipe717]

Teran, I decided to follow your advice...
Today I studied 4th movement of Sonata Op.2/1, and I found that it's not that hard I thought it would be Of course I can't play all the movement yet, but I'm progressing.
I was thinking on study Prestissimo from Op.2/1 before Presto agitato from Op.27/2.
I also tried to play Moonlight's 3rd today, and I really didn't find it extremely difficult. I already could play the right hand, and the left hand isn't too difficult. And I agree with you that the most difficult part is from 1:00 to 1:18 in that video!
I think that my main problems in playing Moonlight's 3rd will be that bars with lots of staccatos (the "most difficult part") and the development... Yes, I found very difficult to play the melody with the left hand and the Alberti bass with the right hand - when I play hands separetely, both are OK, but when I play hands together, it gets very more difficult.
I think that I'll play Presto agitato, so... Hopefully I can play.

[teran]

The melodic shift to the left hand is a common difficulty since we're used to playing melodies in the right hand.

It's why everyone should play Bach and lots of it. XD

[felipe717]

The melodic shift to the left hand is a common difficulty since we're used to playing melodies in the right hand.

It's why everyone should play Bach and lots of it. XD

:x Have you any tip about it? I even thought about crossing the hands and play the staffs exchanged - playing the bass cleff with right hand and the treble cleff with left hand - but completely dispensed the idea, because it just doesn't work.
Well, I think I'll have to star VERY slowly, especially in this part... '-' Have you had too much difficulty in the development?
Thx

[elenka]

thanks for your comment I really appreciate it. Just it would be more believable when I will decide to post a recording of this Sonata when I'll feel ready and when I'm sure that my piano is well tuned

[teran]

:x Have you any tip about it? I even thought about crossing the hands and play the staffs exchanged - playing the bass cleff with right hand and the treble cleff with left hand - but completely dispensed the idea, because it just doesn't work.
Well, I think I'll have to star VERY slowly, especially in this part... '-' Have you had too much difficulty in the development?
Thx

How did you learn how to play a melody in the right hand and accompany in the left?

It's exactly the same principle just the opposite way round, it just takes some getting used to if you haven't done it before. Take it really slowly and when you start to speed up a bit, never lose track of the pulse, in fact keeping track of the pulse. If you try to fit the left hand in to the pulse rather than simply trying to coordinate note for note, you'll find it a lot easier.

[felipe717]

How did you learn how to play a melody in the right hand and accompany in the left?

It's exactly the same principle just the opposite way round, it just takes some getting used to if you haven't done it before. Take it really slowly and when you start to speed up a bit, never lose track of the pulse, in fact keeping track of the pulse. If you try to fit the left hand in to the pulse rather than simply trying to coordinate note for note, you'll find it a lot easier.

I had the same difficulty in the development from Op.2/1, 1st movement... But surely it was "easier" than Moonlight's.
But I'm sure that with much training I'll be able to play it... I'm almost finishing 4th movement of Op.2/1, just after I'll start Moonlight... But I pretend to play very slowly and each section at a time, of course... Gradually I think I'll progress.
Thank you very much!! xD

[felipe717]

Actually I'm a little undecided about the metronome marking in Presto agitato... Teran, may I ask what is the MM you play? Presto should be about 180-200, and the Moonlight's 3rd should be in this tempo? 180 seems to be hard, but I think that with much practice I'll be able to do it. I listened to some interpretations and there's a few that the music is about 160...
I was wondering what should be the correct tempo... '-' I know that this is very relative, but, approximately, what should be the MM for Presto agitato?
Can anyone tell me about it?

[felipe717]

If anyone plays the Prestissimo from Op.2/1, I'm have a main problem now...
In bars 2 and 4, when the left hand goes down, the indicated fingers are (5-1-2)-(1-2-4)-(5-3-1)-(5-3-1) - each group in brackets are each triplet. But I found this fingering a little difficult, and I play like this: (5-1-3)-(5-"jump"-1-3)
Is it wrong? I'm more comfortable with the "jumping" when the left hand goes down. If I try to pass "thumb down" I always lose control and hit the wrong notes.
If anyone who plays this movement could tell me, I'll be grateful, but, anyway, I'm going to study hard this section tomorrow... The rest of the movement is going well, but with two days of studying I still can't play instinctively... Anyway...
Because, of course, I want to start soon Moonlight's 3rd ^^
The problem is that I can only study 5 hours a day, because when my parents arrive home... "Goodbye, piano! They don't wanna hear you!" u.u But I'm trying, at least...
If anyone has some tip, I'll be grateful.
Thanks!

[j_menz]

If anyone plays the Prestissimo from Op.2/1, I'm have a main problem now...
In bars 2 and 4, when the left hand goes down, the indicated fingers are (5-1-2)-(1-2-4)-(5-3-1)-(5-3-1) - each group in brackets are each triplet. But I found this fingering a little difficult, and I play like this: (5-1-3)-(5-"jump"-1-3)
Is it wrong? I'm more comfortable with the "jumping" when the left hand goes down. If I try to pass "thumb down" I always lose control and hit the wrong notes.

Fingering is always a bit idiosyncratic, but I don't think the "jump" sounds like it will work at speed.

Try 513-123.  Also, try and make sure your hand is in smooth constant motion to support the finger movements, not a jerk at the thumb under.

The jump may work now, but I suspect it will either fail to be accurate at speed, or create an unintended accent on the wrong note.

[felipe717]

Fingering is always a bit idiosyncratic, but I don't think the "jump" sounds like it will work at speed.

Try 513-123.  Also, try and make sure your hand is in smooth constant motion to support the finger movements, not a jerk at the thumb under.

The jump may work now, but I suspect it will either fail to be accurate at speed, or create an unintended accent on the wrong note.

I'll follow your advice, j_menz! '-' Hopefully I'll manage to play the broken chords well... Yes, you're right, it works sometimes, but very often there's a little "break" on the speed, and the tempo is kind of discontinued... Fortunately when the left hand goes up, I found a little easier and I'm able to play without "jumping". About the descending, I was trying the correct fingering right now and it's really not too difficult! I'll try to improve it.
Thank you very much!

[chopin2015]

Maybe the question should be...which one should you not play next?

[felipe717]

Maybe the question should be...which one should you not play next?

xD Several, I would say!

[chopin2015]

 

Have fun!

[felipe717]

Have fun!

I hope I will; actually I'm already having fun xD Thank you!

[chopin2015]

Cool!
Im working on op 10 no 3 sonata, and my teacher decided she wants to learn it as well! How fun! Still a long ways to finish, for me, though.

[felipe717]

Cool!
Im working on op 10 no 3 sonata, and my teacher decided she wants to learn it as well! How fun! Still a long ways to finish, for me, though.

I really want to learn this one, but I think I'll learn Op.10 No.2 before... Actually, I've always in doubt, which one is "easier", Op.10/2 or Op.10/3?
Well, I wish you good luck! This is a very impressive Sonata and I do like it! ^^ So nice, you and your teacher learning the same sonata! Good luck!

[chopin2015]

Op 10 no 3 not easier but they are both difficult...4 movements and first one is presto. But musically, i have an easy time memorizing this one. That second movement is a beast...you should do op 10 no2 and then we can compare difficulties!

[felipe717]

Yes, Op.10/3 seems to be harder. I don't know why, but I don't like the Presto very much... :x I don't know, I prefer very much the 2nd movement, that is my favorite! ^^ Do you mean that 2nd movement may be harder than 1st? I can't say, 'cause I don't play this sonata, but anyway... But surely the Largo e mesto is very challenging, even being a slow movement, I think it requires a lot of technique and expression, don't it?
If I would play this sonata, I think I'll have many problems in all movements... The 1st is fast and I think it may be hard to play the notes correcly... The 2nd needs a lot of maturity and musicality. I've always been in trouble with Menuettos and Scherzos, like the 3rd... And I have the impression that the 4th is harder than the 1st, maybe...
Yes, if I could, I'd choose Op.10/2, it seems "less hard" and I love this one too!
But, for now, I've gotta play the damned triplets from the 4th of Op.2/1...
We can compare both sonatas, but I'm sure Op.10/3 is harder, actually!

[chopin2015]

Yes, Op.10/3 seems to be harder. I don't know why, but I don't like the Presto very much... :x I don't know, I prefer very much the 2nd movement, that is my favorite! ^^ Do you mean that 2nd movement may be harder than 1st? I can't say, 'cause I don't play this sonata, but anyway... But surely the Largo e mesto is very challenging, even being a slow movement, I think it requires a lot of technique and expression, don't it?
If I would play this sonata, I think I'll have many problems in all movements... The 1st is fast and I think it may be hard to play the notes correcly... The 2nd needs a lot of maturity and musicality. I've always been in trouble with Menuettos and Scherzos, like the 3rd... And I have the impression that the 4th is harder than the 1st, maybe...
Yes, if I could, I'd choose Op.10/2, it seems "less hard" and I love this one too!
But, for now, I've gotta play the damned triplets from the 4th of Op.2/1...
We can compare both sonatas, but I'm sure Op.10/3 is harder, actually!

Well, the reason i am learning this sonata is because i LOVE the first movement. It is very playful! The largo....oooooh so musically challenging. Idk how bee came up with the melody at the end, its haunting! The minuetto is so fun and vocal....the last movement i have no comment on. I like richters op 10 no 3

There are a couple of pages in the op 10 no2 that look intense. I havent listened to it as much as the following sonata, but i think you will get alot from learning this one. I highly recommend it, for the fun it represents. If you have questions, shoot! Ill probably learn that one next...

[felipe717]

Well, the reason i am learning this sonata is because i LOVE the first movement. It is very playful! The largo....oooooh so musically challenging. Idk how bee came up with the melody at the end, its haunting! The minuetto is so fun and vocal....the last movement i have no comment on. I like richters op 10 no 3

There are a couple of pages in the op 10 no2 that look intense. I havent listened to it as much as the following sonata, but i think you will get alot from learning this one. I highly recommend it, for the fun it represents. If you have questions, shoot! Ill probably learn that one next...

I do prefer the 2nd moviment. I love the melody in bars 36-40 (in these bars, and in all places it reappears!)
I don't know why, there are many people who say Barenboim is not that good, but I personally like his interpretations very much, so that I first listened to all Beethoven Sonatas by his performances. But I do like Richter too! I mean, if I could play like these masters, I would be almost freaking out!
Well, I think that the hardest from Op.10/2 is the 3rd movement "Presto". The two others seem to be much easier. But Op.10/3 has, imo, many more difficult passages... :x
I don't know if I'm prepared to Op.10/3... I mean, I will TRY to play Moonlight's 3rd, by suggestion. The hardest Sonata I play is Pathetique, and I don't play it perfectly... But let's see...
May I ask you something? I know it's an old thread, but, anyway... Your scores of Beethoven's Sonatas are which edition? :x I've been undecided about which edition use... I find all 32 sonatas in an edition that I liked very much, but I don't know if it's good. I don't know if it's a good edition, but I do like very much... I think it's Ruthardt's... I use this one:
https://javanese.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/5/55/IMSLP05533-Btsn10_3.pdf
May I ask which edition are you using? Just to compare.
Well, I can't decide which one I do prefer, Op.10/2 or Op.10/3... Both are amazing! But, if I would choose one, I'd choose Op.10/2 for being, imo, "easier".
If you're thinking about playing Op.10/2 after the current one, I'd say to you to go ahead! If you're studying Op.10/3, it's sure, imo, you'll have ease on playing the No.2.
Anyway... Thank you very much, and have good studies!

[chopin2015]

I have the dover set, also ricordi. I got the dover set on amazon for like 20 dollars. It is worth having the book so you can look at all the beethoven sonatas and notes. The dover has editor notes on modifications to original score and all that jazz. Im not a pro or anything, i am still a student but i do prefer a book with clean print, references to original manuscripts and notes, and a good recording to listen to...in op 10/3 the first movement the ties and bass notes you hold are rediculous! Id do op 10 2 just because its shorter and you could prob perform it sooner! The pathetique is an amazing sonata, its very popular so alot of people play it very well! Dont worry about not having it perfect, work on it as long as it takes! I am going to work on the largo today.
 The presto is a difficult section, but if you get it right at any tempo, youll get presto eventually too! Just go for it, start with the presto section!

[felipe717]

I have the dover set, also ricordi. I got the dover set on amazon for like 20 dollars. It is worth having the book so you can look at all the beethoven sonatas and notes. The dover has editor notes on modifications to original score and all that jazz. Im not a pro or anything, i am still a student but i do prefer a book with clean print, references to original manuscripts and notes, and a good recording to listen to...in op 10/3 the first movement the ties and bass notes you hold are rediculous! Id do op 10 2 just because its shorter and you could prob perform it sooner! The pathetique is an amazing sonata, its very popular so alot of people play it very well! Dont worry about not having it perfect, work on it as long as it takes! I am going to work on the largo today.
 The presto is a difficult section, but if you get it right at any tempo, youll get presto eventually too! Just go for it, start with the presto section!

I'm thinking about buying it... I found a site which has the Dover Edition, maybe I'll buy it. But, anyway... I think that the editions are very important, because who wants to study with a horrible score? Well, all the sonatas ('-' "all the sonatas", who reads, thinks that I've already performed half of them ) I learned I used the edition I put there. I found it very good, but when I looked to Dover edition and I found it very good too! The only thing I found strange was that the staccatos are marked with staccatissimos. o-O Or maybe it was just the one I looked, anyway...
Did you find bad the edition I used? I can't complain, I've always used that one, so...
Yes, Pathetique is amazing! It's one of my favorite sonatas! The 1st movement is very difficult, but it's not like "wow, it's impossible!". I'm playing it a little better now, but it still has several mistakes... I'm finishing the 4th from Op.2/1, then I'll try to play 3rd from Moonlight's. .-. I hope I'll get it... xD
If I can't, or maybe after Moonlight, I'll probably start Op.10/2 or Op.10/1... Anyway, I hope I can play more sonatas
The "Presto" you say is from Op.10 No.2 or No.3?? Well, both are impressively difficult, imo...
You're starting the Largo? ^^ My favorite, have good studies!!
Thank you very much!

[chopin2015]

I'm thinking about buying it... I found a site which has the Dover Edition, maybe I'll buy it. But, anyway... I think that the editions are very important, because who wants to study with a horrible score? Well, all the sonatas ('-' "all the sonatas", who reads, thinks that I've already performed half of them ) I learned I used the edition I put there. I found it very good, but when I looked to Dover edition and I found it very good too! The only thing I found strange was that the staccatos are marked with staccatissimos. o-O Or maybe it was just the one I looked, anyway...
Did you find bad the edition I used? I can't complain, I've always used that one, so...
Yes, Pathetique is amazing! It's one of my favorite sonatas! The 1st movement is very difficult, but it's not like "wow, it's impossible!". I'm playing it a little better now, but it still has several mistakes... I'm finishing the 4th from Op.2/1, then I'll try to play 3rd from Moonlight's. .-. I hope I'll get it... xD
If I can't, or maybe after Moonlight, I'll probably start Op.10/2 or Op.10/1... Anyway, I hope I can play more sonatas
The "Presto" you say is from Op.10 No.2 or No.3?? Well, both are impressively difficult, imo...
You're starting the Largo? ^^ My favorite, have good studies!!
Thank you very much!

yeh, I mean the dover is good! I am not a pro so as long as I can understand the score and it is representative of the music, then it's good to go. I can work through the dover. I worked on the largo today, it really made me feel good. I know what you mean about the staccatissimos, i think that is right, and he uses stacccatos too, the dots. Not as often though, because B did not like very detached staccato. Let me know what edition you use, I think dover is least expensive.
 Congrats on the Pathetique, i remember I cried to the first movement when I listened to it in the dark, cold apartment, I couldnt afford electricity and my job was ruining my connection with the piano. It was a really dark time in my life...
 So yeah, keep updated on the edition and which sonata, the staccatissimo is just to say that the note should be played short, but not staccato.

[felipe717]

yeh, I mean the dover is good! I am not a pro so as long as I can understand the score and it is representative of the music, then it's good to go. I can work through the dover. I worked on the largo today, it really made me feel good. I know what you mean about the staccatissimos, i think that is right, and he uses stacccatos too, the dots. Not as often though, because B did not like very detached staccato. Let me know what edition you use, I think dover is least expensive.
 Congrats on the Pathetique, i remember I cried to the first movement when I listened to it in the dark, cold apartment, I couldnt afford electricity and my job was ruining my connection with the piano. It was a really dark time in my life...
 So yeah, keep updated on the edition and which sonata, the staccatissimo is just to say that the note should be played short, but not staccato.

Thank you very much!! I don't know if I'm going to buy, but probably yes. Until now, I've always printed the scores, which is a more expensive and boring choice xD
Well, until now, I used the Ruthardt Edition (the one I put above). I think the Dover Edition is this one?
https://static.musicroom.com/img/c/lb/DP15743/dp15743_lb01.jpg
Sorry for questioning, that's why I'm a real layman in this subject... :x I noticed that Dover Edition is the same as Shenker Edition? Well, anyway...
If this is the Dover Ed., I probably will use this one, because I loved it! ^^ About the staccatos and staccatissimos; yes, I noticed that there are many more staccatissimos than staccatos, but, anyway, it shouldn't be much different when we're learning, I think. Actually I've never seen any staccatissimo in any Beethoven Sonata, so I think all the staccatissimos should be like normal staccatos Yes, I'm thinking about using this Edition.
Hey, you don't need to talk about your life if this brings back bad remembrances to you... I can't say I understand, because I've never been in a similiar situation, but I can wonder what you must have felt! It's so bad, really! Now I was thinking, Pathetique really express a kind of sadness... I've always listened to it and I felt angry and desperation (I mean, the 1st), even in the slow section. But yes, it must have very linked to what you were living...
Anyway, I'm intruding too much!! :x
Congratulations about the Largo!!! Keep on the great work! I'm sure you'll do it! Yes, the Largo is sad and deep, but, at least for me, it conveys a certain happiness! ^^ I'm sure you'll have a good time learning this one! I mean, I'm not sure, actually, because I don't play it xD But I hope you enjoy learning this one! Have you already finished the Presto? o-O If so, congratulations!
Thank you very much!

[chopin2015]

I actually do not know, if the editions are similar. They could be, that they use edits publushed by friends and people close to B. Beethoven had strange fingering marks. Yes but dont play staccatissimo as staccato. Theyre both used accordingly and separately in his works. But yesh, i did finish the presto, working on those crazy left hand tricks, 5 to 1 is an octave but u go back to 5 on your 1, hold 5 and play melody in same hand...lol
 Id like to learn many beethoven sonatas!
 

[felipe717]

Anyway, I'll probably use that one, it seems to be very good! ;P Fingering is always very subjective... I almost always create a new fingering, so that I can play with less difficulties, but of course I take references to the marked ones on the score.

Yes but dont play staccatissimo as staccato. Theyre both used accordingly and separately in his works.

So the staccatissimos should be played as a short note, only? I don't know, but in all other editions there are staccatos in the place of these staccatissimos. But, anyway, both of them means the notes should be played short, don't they? .-.
Wow, congrats about the Presto! It's surely a great progress! It must be rewarding, of course. :3 I hope you'll have great progress for the Largo too! xD
Thx!!

[felipe717]

I have been searching about the editions, and discovered that Dover isn't an Urtext Edition. :x What do you think about Henle? I found it's Urtext and I liked very much the scores too, and I found where buy it. Do you think Dover is better than Henle? Actually I liked both of them, but as Henle is Urtext, I thought about using this one...
I don't know... Maybe Henle, I think xD

[chopin2015]

I have been searching about the editions, and discovered that Dover isn't an Urtext Edition. :x What do you think about Henle? I found it's Urtext and I liked very much the scores too, and I found where buy it. Do you think Dover is better than Henle? Actually I liked both of them, but as Henle is Urtext, I thought about using this one...
I don't know... Maybe Henle, I think xD

Does urtext have fingerings? My urtext Bach wtc didnt. Yes staccatissimos just play fast, short, but not staccato. Staccato is detached, possibly because they are not as fast. Also, Urtext is expensive. :p. If you can look at both, just pick one! Dover is ok though. I dont mind it. Yes the largo ill try and finish today! Its so beautiful! Hehe

[teran]

Actually I'm a little undecided about the metronome marking in Presto agitato... Teran, may I ask what is the MM you play? Presto should be about 180-200, and the Moonlight's 3rd should be in this tempo? 180 seems to be hard, but I think that with much practice I'll be able to do it. I listened to some interpretations and there's a few that the music is about 160...
I was wondering what should be the correct tempo... '-' I know that this is very relative, but, approximately, what should be the MM for Presto agitato?
Can anyone tell me about it?

180 - 200 is Prestissimo territory lol.

I play anywhere between around 152 and 168 depending on how I feel, I don't really see any particular reason to go much faster. Not really a fan of extreme tempo, especially in this case where I feel it would detract from the more melodic sections.

[felipe717]

Does urtext have fingerings? My urtext Bach wtc didnt. Yes staccatissimos just play fast, short, but not staccato. Staccato is detached, possibly because they are not as fast. Also, Urtext is expensive. :p. If you can look at both, just pick one! Dover is ok though. I dont mind it. Yes the largo ill try and finish today! Its so beautiful! Hehe

Yes, for all I know, Henle edition has fingerings! ^^ And I also noticed the Henle edition is more expensive... '-' But I think it will worth, anyway, and I found it isn't TOO more expensive.
But staccatissimo should be even more detached than staccatos, shouldn't it? anyway...
Today I couldn't study... ¬¬ My parents were home, they hate any kind of sound... ''-.- But I'm improving oin the Prestissimo from Op.2/1, almost finishing. Keep on the great work in Op.10/3! If you post a video or recording, I'd be glad to listen!
Good studies, and sorry about my English... ¬¬ A few people have already complained about it... -_-'' I even changed my "signature" .-. hehe
xD Anyway, good luck and thank you very much!

[felipe717]

180 - 200 is Prestissimo territory lol.

I play anywhere between around 152 and 168 depending on how I feel, I don't really see any particular reason to go much faster. Not really a fan of extreme tempo, especially in this case where I feel it would detract from the more melodic sections.

Yes, I agree with you; I think that the 3rd should't be too much fast, for the same reason! After all, it's not Prestissimo, and many people play as if it was Prestissimo, but anyway...
Thank you for the reply! But even so I found 152 very hard! xD
I'm almost finishing Op.2/1 4th movement, so I'll start Moonlight's 3rd... '-' Hopefully I'll improve on this too! ^^
Thank you!

[chopin2015]

Yes, for all I know, Henle edition has fingerings! ^^ And I also noticed the Henle edition is more expensive... '-' But I think it will worth, anyway, and I found it isn't TOO more expensive.
But staccatissimo should be even more detached than staccatos, shouldn't it? anyway...
Today I couldn't study... ¬¬ My parents were home, they hate any kind of sound... ''-.- But I'm improving oin the Prestissimo from Op.2/1, almost finishing. Keep on the great work in Op.10/3! If you post a video or recording, I'd be glad to listen!
Good studies, and sorry about my English... ¬¬ A few people have already complained about it... -_-'' I even changed my "signature" .-. hehe
xD Anyway, good luck and thank you very much!

Im not too far from playing it clean, will post a recording next week of some chopin,probably. Good luck with your studies as well!

[teran]

Yes, I agree with you; I think that the 3rd should't be too much fast, for the same reason! After all, it's not Prestissimo, and many people play as if it was Prestissimo, but anyway...
Thank you for the reply! But even so I found 152 very hard! xD
I'm almost finishing Op.2/1 4th movement, so I'll start Moonlight's 3rd... '-' Hopefully I'll improve on this too! ^^
Thank you!

Practise at like 120 - 138, the main goal is to get your hand to remember the positions and achieve all the motions comfortably.

Once you've been patient in playing it slowly for a while and cementing it in your mind, you can play it at speed just fine. Playing fast straight away just causes strain and mistakes.

I know how tempting it is to play it at tempo as soon as possible, but you'll get there eventually, and it's worth being patient with.

[felipe717]

chopin2015 - Good luck on Chopin! I don't have much ability on Chopin and Liszt... ¬¬ Of course, I do not have ability on other composers as well, but anyway... -_-'' ~~feeling worthless~~ Well, I'll like to listen to your recording/video. Good luck!

teran - Yes, it's very tempting to play at tempo, but I couldn't even play the first bars... xD 120 is a nice tempo to study too. '-' I think I'll take a long time to get the right tempo, but I hope I will do it! Thank you!