I need the fingering for left and right hand. If i coudl pay for it.

[musicioso]

Hallo guys,

Here i am again. I have a beautiful melody. And i want to play the melody line (treble clef) with both hand simultaneously, as a kind of exercise. But to do so i need the fingering, i am very weak when it comes to good fingering.

So is there someone here who could do that for me? Write down the fingering on my sheet? If you think i am asking too much, i am willing to pay for it. Just send me a PM.

Hope someone can help me out with this.  Under this post i uploaded my sheet. 

[timothy42b]

You're pedaling it, right?

[nyiregyhazi]

Hallo guys,

Here i am again. I have a beautiful melody. And i want to play the melody line (treble clef) with both hand simultaneously, as a kind of exercise. But to do so i need the fingering, i am very weak when it comes to good fingering.

So is there someone here who could do that for me? Write down the fingering on my sheet? If you think i am asking too much, i am willing to pay for it. Just send me a PM.

Hope someone can help me out with this.  Under this post i uploaded my sheet.  

It'll take you more effort to read off a notated fingering than to figure one out for yourself. Think groups and practise playing them all together. There's one group of three in each left bar. Cover those with whatever fingers are most comfortable- typically involving 1 and 5 plus a finger of your choice in the middle. The right is the same principle- where groups of three must lie under the hand in one go. Sometime you might combine two groups- by taking 4 at the top of a one and 5 at the top of another, so both groups of three lies fully under the hand.

Use this simple logic and you'll soon have a suitable fingering.

[timothy42b]

Also, as you figure it out, make sure you write them into the music.  Otherwise you'll inevitably practice it several different ways, and not learn it.

Write in pencil.  I usually end up realizing I have to change a few fingerings until I get the right solution and I need to erase.  More skilled players maybe get it the first time, I dunno.

You're doing left and right hands doubling the melody, correct?  It is not necessary to have the hands mirror each other - 5-2-1 on right hand might be 5-3-1 on the left, that's okay.  I think - others may disagree. 

[nyiregyhazi]

Also, as you figure it out, make sure you write them into the music.  Otherwise you'll inevitably practice it several different ways, and not learn it.

Write in pencil.  I usually end up realizing I have to change a few fingerings until I get the right solution and I need to erase.  More skilled players maybe get it the first time, I dunno.

You're doing left and right hands doubling the melody, correct?  It is not necessary to have the hands mirror each other - 5-2-1 on right hand might be 5-3-1 on the left, that's okay.  I think - others may disagree. 

I disagree with writing anything in that would not be unexpected. The shape of the chunks should define the fingering, or its just an overload of information. in this piece the chunks should be visually very obvious, for the most part. I'd recommend practising them as chords and writing as few fingerings in as possible. This style of writing works when you get a feel for the whole chunk into the hand in one- not when you have to read off fingers one by one. only the middle of the each three voices should even be open to question, never mind in need of being written in.

[timothy42b]

I disagree with writing anything in that would not be unexpected.

That's a valid approach, but remember this is a very new beginner.  Most of the time they need to write every fingering in.  Nothing is expected, to them. 

You suggest they should recognize the obvious and only write fingerings where needed - but since there are no obvious places, they'll rely on memory.  And that doesn't work.

Do you ever teach beginners?  A lot of your posts suggest a lack of understanding of the beginner and intermediate struggles.  Perhaps you have had only advanced students for too long.   

[nyiregyhazi]

That's a valid approach, but remember this is a very new beginner.  Most of the time they need to write every fingering in.  Nothing is expected, to them.  

You suggest they should recognize the obvious and only write fingerings where needed - but since there are no obvious places, they'll rely on memory.  And that doesn't work.

Do you ever teach beginners?  A lot of your posts suggest a lack of understanding of the beginner and intermediate struggles.  Perhaps you have had only advanced students for too long.    

yes, I teach beginners. I always encourage them to see the big chunks and not to get bogged down devoting their attention in irrelevant individual finger numbers- given quite how much there is to worry about already. I only write in unexpected fingerings. elsewhere, they are taught to align the hand properly for the chunk and not to think of any individual fingers outside of the context of the chunk. That way, they don't need any fingerings except for changes in position. line the hand up sensibly, and the fingers are already there. the best books for beginners NEVER finger every note. this distracts and confuses.

although positions change, the right hand chunks in 3s are extremely obvious here. the poster will make life easier if he uses the logic that the thumb will take the low note and the 5th the upper note (with the possible option of using some 4s, to link two chunks into one) . then he can feel for himself which middle finger works best and write some in if need be. but to write all the ones and 5s in would be a spectacularly counterproductive exercise. pianists need to learn to see the chunks that fingering is organised to match- not a mass of numbers for every separate note. these should be dealt with chunk by chunk, not note by note.

[ajspiano]

Can't help but agree with the above from N.

You can write in every fingering for every note, and that will do the job initially but it does very little not only for their ability to determine fingerings, but also their ability to move fluently across lines rather than have stop start mental impulse on every single note...   which is significant for their technical development..

Only yesterday I was working with a 5 year old on clusters of notes rather than individual ones, to help better his fluency of sound and comfort with movements between notes.

[timothy42b]

You can write in every fingering for every note, and that will do the job initially but it does very little not only for their ability to determine fingerings, but also their ability to move fluently across lines rather than have stop start mental impulse on every single note...   which is significant for their technical development..

That makes sense, I'm not disagreeing.  I just wanted to point out how deep the mystery of fingering is for the beginner, and by asking the question for a fairly simple pattern the OP did demonstrate needing some very basic advice. 

I just looked at the piece up on my piano at the moment, an SATB hymn many of you could sightread.  (then again, maybe not;  it's fairly common at our church to have a guest organist rip through a blazing prelude then stumble badly when he got to the hymns). 

I see that I have marked only where I need to cover bass clef notes with the right hand, where I have to change fingers on the same note on the left hand, and where the left hand moves out of the obvious position for the key signature.  Those are all places where decisions had to be made the first time through.  Decisions slow everything - best to avoid them.  Hee, hee. 

Remember too the OP intends to double the melody with the left hand and this hasn't been addressed.  I tend to think the mirror image approach doesn't work, but that may just be true for me. 

[ajspiano]

Remember too the OP intends to double the melody with the left hand and this hasn't been addressed. 

I don't think my comment was all that relevant to the OP, more just a weigh in on approach to teaching fingering (or starting to) with beginner students.

Though to address the OP's question, i get the impression that he's saying that he's going to omit the LH part and just play the RH part with both hands.. and I'm not altogether sure why that presents any confusion.. as N. said, its just blocks of 1 (2,3 or 4) 5 always.

If he's trying to play the LH and RH simultaneously in the LH then its likely still the same, only with 1/5 (2,3 or 4) 5.. and some precise pedal.

I'm not sure why the fingering was in question because to me, the post implied that the RH fingering was ok, and it strikes be as very odd that if thats ok the LH wouldnt be.. but maybe i'm wrong (OP has very weak LH), and/or totally misread the post.

[timothy42b]

My interpretation was that the OP wanted to play the melody with the right hand, and simultaneously play the melody with the left hand one octave below. 

Some teachers do require pieces to be learned switching hands (left hand on top stave, right hand on bottom) and he may have picked that up from reading the web. 

Like playing scales in contrary motion, you can get confused with where the mirror works and where it doesn't. 

[nyiregyhazi]

My interpretation was that the OP wanted to play the melody with the right hand, and simultaneously play the melody with the left hand one octave below.  

Some teachers do require pieces to be learned switching hands (left hand on top stave, right hand on bottom) and he may have picked that up from reading the web.  

Like playing scales in contrary motion, you can get confused with where the mirror works and where it doesn't.  

? contrary motion involves mirroring. unison doesn't. whoever said that people should "mirror" fingerings for things in unison? I have no idea what you're arguing against. in unisons each hand must find its own logic. likewise in contrary motion - where sometimes the logic of each hand produces a perfectly mirrored fingering but sometimes it doesn't. I'm not sure whether you've misunderstood something altogether different elsewhere, but nobody worth their salt would ever argue that unison chords should have the same middle fingers in each hand.. I've never even encountered such nonsense, never mind had reason to believe that it's a common approach.

[timothy42b]

 I have no idea what you're arguing against.

I'm not arguing against anything.  I'm trying to help the OP, something you have so far not attempted. 

in unisons each hand must find its own logic.

To a beginner, this is about as helpful as your earlier advice,

use a finger of your choice

  If he could do that he wouldn't have asked.  Are you sure you teach beginners?

I mentioned mirror and contrary because in the absence of any information, the beginner's first impulse is to copy the other hand.  Knowing where a beginner is at is part of working with them - you seem a bit out of touch, sorry.  It's that 1% thing again. 

I have no idea how to post finger numbers in a graphic but when I get a moment later I'll write out a suggested fingering. 

I know they will be considered wrong!  and you will point out in excruciating detail why.  But even wrong ones will be a starting point for the OP. 

[nyiregyhazi]

I'm not arguing against anything.  I'm trying to help the OP, something you have so far not attempted

.  

This was clearly arguing against something:

It is not necessary to have the hands mirror each other - 5-2-1 on right hand might be 5-3-1 on the left, that's okay.

I'm just trying to figure out what- given that the concept of mirroring is only ever applied to mirrored passages- not unison ones.

I mentioned mirror and contrary because in the absence of any information, the beginner's first impulse is to copy the other hand.  Knowing where a beginner is at is part of working with them - you seem a bit out of touch, sorry.  It's that 1% thing again.  

Okay- but it would be clearer if you specified that this is a problem to be avoided. Your wording implied there's an accepted school of thought that actively encourages this as good practise. There isn't. It's a lot clearer if you paint it as a potential error among the inexperienced, that he might watch out for- rather than imply that some schools of thinking might encourage it as a positive.
 

I know they will be considered wrong!  and you will point out in excruciating detail why.  But even wrong ones will be a starting point for the OP.  

It would be hard to go significantly wrong. All it really needs is 1s and 5s and some consideration of whether the finger you apply to the middle involves awkward stretching or not. Essentially, the only way you could go badly wrong is to have a big stretch between 4 and 5. The poster will learn far more from focussed experimentation than being spoonfed someone else's fingering. There are very few possible wrong turns here, as long as you appreciate the concept of fingering in chunks- as the chunks are extremely transparent.