\"\"
Piano Forum logo

How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude? (Read 6203 times)

Offline alextryan

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 41
How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
« on: November 04, 2004, 02:40:28 AM »
I listen to Pollini blaze along at about 180 beats per minute, and then I start my metronome and tick down further and further till I hit around 108bpm, my current sweet spot.  Granted I just started learning it, but I doubt if I'll ever get it faster than 140bpm. 

So I challenge you, in a friendly way, to get out your metronome and figure out your own speed.  I'd like to know where the bulk of normal human beings land once they have this piece polished up. 

piano sheet music of Etude


Offline thracozaag

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1311
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #1 on: November 04, 2004, 04:00:14 AM »
I listen to Pollini blaze along at about 180 beats per minute, and then I start my metronome and tick down further and further till I hit around 108bpm, my current sweet spot.  Granted I just started learning it, but I doubt if I'll ever get it faster than 140bpm. 

So I challenge you, in a friendly way, to get out your metronome and figure out your own speed.  I'd like to know where the bulk of normal human beings land once they have this piece polished up. 

  Listen to Richter's or Cziffra's, now that's blazing.

koji (STSD)
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline mosis

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #2 on: November 04, 2004, 04:20:58 AM »
Richter's black and white video of doom slays all. If you want to see the sh*t taken out of that etude, watch it.

Offline allchopin

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1171
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #3 on: November 04, 2004, 04:52:44 AM »
Richter has nothing on Cziffra....

And Cziffra has nothing on Sinadinovic (He actually visited the forum in the distant past).  Check this out.

www.fmu.bg.ac.yu/sinadin/sound/mp3/subotica/subotica_chopin.mp3
A modern house without a flush toilet... uncanny.

Spatula

  • Guest
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #4 on: November 04, 2004, 05:33:37 AM »
There's a level of speed in which I find acceptable.  For some reason I find I have a certain limit or thresh-hold if you will.

I've sped up Beethoven's Moonlight Nr 3 twice as fast using Finale Notepad, and it sounds like crap.  I've read up on C Changs book and our ears and brain can only interpret up to a certain tempo, and after that, it sounds like mush no matter how clear the notes are played even without the damper pedal.  And further more, I felt that performance was lacking in musical content simply because I'm more acustomed to a slower 150 MM tempo. 

I still have to praise Sinadinovic virtuoso skills though, lets see Liszt do that, or even Chopin himself. 

Hearing this is about the total opposite how I'd interpret if Idil Biret would play it, although I have yet to hear her recording. 

Offline jlh

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2352
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #5 on: November 04, 2004, 09:38:49 AM »
When I learned this piece, I had it going at about 152-160 bpm.  Of course, I'd only been playing the piano for 4 1/2 years at that point.  I've now been playing for about 12 years, so if I revisited that etude, it would probably be in better (and probably faster) condition.

It's one of my favorite etudes (I even won a competition with it once).
. ROFL : ROFL:LOL:ROFL : ROFL '
                 ___/\___
  L   ______/             \
LOL "”””””””\         [ ] \
  L              \_________)
                 ___I___I___/

Offline thracozaag

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1311
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #6 on: November 04, 2004, 02:06:38 PM »
  I'm more of an articulation than speed-freak:

http://66.49.129.194/chopin-op10no4-attwood.mp3

koji (STSD)
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline mosis

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #7 on: November 04, 2004, 08:58:53 PM »
Koji, were you using a lot of pedal in that recording?

Offline mosis

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #8 on: November 04, 2004, 08:59:43 PM »
Richter has nothing on Cziffra....

And Cziffra has nothing on Sinadinovic (He actually visited the forum in the distant past).  Check this out.

www.fmu.bg.ac.yu/sinadin/sound/mp3/subotica/subotica_chopin.mp3

OMFG

That is *** INSANITY. Wow, that was a great recording.

Offline goansongo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #9 on: November 04, 2004, 10:22:52 PM »
  I'm more of an articulation than speed-freak:

http://66.49.129.194/chopin-op10no4-attwood.mp3

koji (STSD)

That's a pretty damn good recording...

Offline thracozaag

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1311
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #10 on: November 04, 2004, 10:28:15 PM »
Koji, were you using a lot of pedal in that recording?

  Actually, hardly any (it was recorded in a rather live hall, though).

koji (STSD)
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline Antnee

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 535
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #11 on: November 05, 2004, 01:55:26 AM »
Even tough Sinadinovic plays it blazingly fast, I so much prefer Koji's recording. Articultaion is so much more critical than speed.  Sinadinovic's speed is good to  to exercise with and really get the etude aspect out of it, but for performance it is just much too fast.  A first time listener wouldn't be able to comprehend the piece well at that speed, and frankly, although it is amazing, I don't like all that much. Nice recording Koji...
"The trouble with music appreciation in general is that people are taught to have too much respect for music they should be taught to love it instead." -  Stravinsky

Offline mh88

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #12 on: November 05, 2004, 05:18:56 AM »
I am in the same boat...I was playing about 150 bpm when I first learned this etude 2 years ago.  With work I could now play it a little faster, no where near Cziffra though...wow.

On a side note, Boris Berezovsky has his recording of the etudes out there and most of them are played with great reluctance, 10/4 is no excection.  However, the recordings are quite interesting to listen to as no other artist has released the etudes at less than acceptable speeds (to my knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong I'd like to listen to it).  His recording allows you to hear every single note and pattern, every little delicate feature of the songs, but this can be a little irritating at times becaues there are moments when you want to scream "speed up and play it right PLEAAAAAASE.  Off topic...his recording of 25/12 is unmatched.

Offline chromatickler

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 560
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #13 on: November 06, 2004, 03:17:38 AM »
Da SDC's official reply to dis topic:

Pollini 1'55
Gavrilov 1'43
Cziffra 1' 41
Sinadin live 1'40
Barere live -sounds like 1'38-1'42 judging from da 1minute sample
Richter live (from Enigma video) 1'31

So da fact is: Da Rectum OWNZ ALL. But da Ziff deserves special mention fo his random deceleration/accelerations. If he chose to play the piece at a strict tempo like everyone else he would probably match da Rectum. In certain parts (ie. the rh arpeggio + lh octave bit, the lh descending scale at the climax) where he chose to accelerate, Da Ziff is by far the fastest.

 8)

Spatula

  • Guest
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #14 on: November 06, 2004, 04:17:26 AM »
  I'm more of an articulation than speed-freak:

http://66.49.129.194/chopin-op10no4-attwood.mp3

koji (STSD)

Link doesn't work

Offline thracozaag

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1311
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #15 on: November 06, 2004, 04:34:22 AM »
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline alextryan

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 41
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #16 on: November 06, 2004, 05:41:30 AM »
Does anyone have the richter mp3 who'd be willing to (unofficially) post it on a web site or email it?  I keep hearing about this recording but can't find it any local libraries.   

Offline brewtality

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 924

Offline alextryan

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 41
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #18 on: November 08, 2004, 12:26:57 AM »
That video is unbelievable.  He makes it look so easy.  Thanks!

Offline legend

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 23
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #19 on: November 11, 2004, 01:33:17 PM »
that site is a superb resource for all things concerning remarkable feats of pianism

Offline allchopin

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1171
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #20 on: November 11, 2004, 05:29:11 PM »
That video appears to be sped up.. his actions don't look natural upon closer examination.  Maybe the conversion from reel to digital created a speed error (and it's always possible to change the pitch of the sound afterwards).  Also, I have an audio recording of Richter's 10/4 and it is slower than Cziffra's.
A modern house without a flush toilet... uncanny.

Offline legend

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 23
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #21 on: November 11, 2004, 05:31:14 PM »
you question richter's abilities?

i dont

Spatula

  • Guest
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #22 on: November 12, 2004, 12:15:22 AM »
http://www.chopinmusic.net/sdc/viewtopic.php?t=8

 8)

After that I click on the http://glumolwiki.free.fr/richy/richter10.4-highres.avi link but it gives me a blank white page...I'm sad.  :(

wait never mind...it works!

Offline rohansahai

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #23 on: November 12, 2004, 01:17:30 AM »
That video appears to be sped up.. his actions don't look natural upon closer examination. Maybe the conversion from reel to digital created a speed error (and it's always possible to change the pitch of the sound afterwards). Also, I have an audio recording of Richter's 10/4 and it is slower than Cziffra's.
You took the words right out of my mouth! It does appear to be sped up, just the way he THROWS the hankerchief and at the end, removes his hand from the keyboard, it did appear quite mmmmmmmmm, unnatural so as to say.
Waste of time -- do not read signatures.

Spatula

  • Guest
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #24 on: November 12, 2004, 02:11:47 AM »
He looked kinda pisssssed when he threw he glove like that and wanted to send the piano to hell or something.

f0bul0us

  • Guest
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #25 on: November 14, 2004, 11:08:51 PM »
He looked kinda pisssssed when he threw he glove like that and wanted to send the piano to hell or something.
Lol, good one =D

Offline kempff

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 97
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #26 on: November 15, 2004, 05:10:29 AM »
That video appears to be sped up.. his actions don't look natural upon closer examination.  Maybe the conversion from reel to digital created a speed error (and it's always possible to change the pitch of the sound afterwards).  Also, I have an audio recording of Richter's 10/4 and it is slower than Cziffra's.

OMG!!! You are questioning Richter's abilities? I would certainly rethink that. :P
Kempff+Brendel= GOD

Offline m

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1107
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #27 on: November 15, 2004, 09:19:12 AM »
Koji,

Does it ring a bell for you?

Offline thracozaag

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1311
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #28 on: November 15, 2004, 12:39:48 PM »
  Absolutely.  How's he doing?

koji (STSD)
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline m

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1107
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #29 on: November 15, 2004, 07:41:39 PM »
  Absolutely.  How's he doing?

koji (STSD)

He is fine.
Check your PM.

Offline opus10no2

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2157
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #30 on: June 07, 2007, 02:27:02 AM »
that site is a superb resource for all things concerning remarkable feats of pianism

I must concur.

I'd add Wunder to this topic.

Can anyone actually BEAT Richter's time  with his degree of accuracy?
Da SDC Piano Forum :
http://www.dasdc.net/

Offline jlh

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2352
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #31 on: June 07, 2007, 03:01:39 AM »
wow you just lazarus-ified this thread... 
. ROFL : ROFL:LOL:ROFL : ROFL '
                 ___/\___
  L   ______/             \
LOL "”””””””\         [ ] \
  L              \_________)
                 ___I___I___/

Offline soliloquy

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1464
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #32 on: June 07, 2007, 11:19:33 PM »
MT's is randomly my fav for the eerie ending :-[

As far as I know Richter's is the fastest though.

Offline franzliszt2

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1003
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #33 on: June 08, 2007, 04:44:30 PM »
Slow and steady wins the race

Offline opus10no2

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2157
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #34 on: June 08, 2007, 06:46:18 PM »
Slow and steady wins the race

haha Good one. ;D
Da SDC Piano Forum :
http://www.dasdc.net/

Offline elevateme_returns

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 757
Re: How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?
«Reply #35 on: June 08, 2007, 10:04:06 PM »
Richter has nothing on Cziffra....

And Cziffra has nothing on Sinadinovic (He actually visited the forum in the distant past).  Check this out.

www.fmu.bg.ac.yu/sinadin/sound/mp3/subotica/subotica_chopin.mp3

thats very lovely, and lightning fast!

but - its not crisp, and its not musical . i hear a blur, of wrong and right notes. i dont hear the music!
elevateme's joke of the week:
If John Terry was a Spartan, the movie 300 would have been called "1."