Yamaha GC2 too bright?

[derschoenebahnhof]

Hi,

I am on the lookout for a grand, 5'8", 5'10" or 6'3". I went to a (disclaimer: Yamaha) dealer and tried both a Yamaha GC2 and a C2X (both are 5'8").

I liked the C2X more, the sound felt warmer and more balanced than the GC2. After going back to the GC2 it sounded as though the treble was a bit over the top, just too bright and a bit too loud. The C2X would be a nice instrument if I was willing to plunk down > $30K with tax and everything but for now it is just too expensive.

I liked the action on both though. The salesman said excessive brightness could likely be toned down by a technician (but at my own expense).

So I have a couple of questions:

- Should I stay away from new pianos altogether and look at used ones instead? My budget is around $15-$20K.

- Some posters on the net recommend to stay away from the GC2, calling it a "cheap" piano. Does anyone have some more info to elaborate on that?

On the used market it looks like a C2 or C3 might be a nice choice, or a similar Kawai. I tested a Mason Hamelin at another shop and really liked the sound, but I don't know this brand much.

I would prefer a grand both for the look and the actions which I read are superior to the uprights (i.d. faster and better dynamic range, correct me if I am wrong on that). At this point I am just looking and I want to take the time to get the right piano even if it takes several months.

Thanks,
CG

[awesom_o]

If you buy from a dealer, you should be able to negotiate a price which includes tax, bench, delivery, and a visit to your home from an experienced technician to tune and voice the piano to your satisfaction.

$15-20k should buy you a really nice piano, whether you decide to buy new or used!

I would stay away from the cheaper Yamaha grands. Yamaha is not an inexpensive brand. If you are looking to buy an inexpensive grand, there are many good manufactures which specialize in this segment of the market, and you would do well to consider them.

For 20k  on the private market, you should be able to get one of the 6-foot Japanese instruments, either an RX3 or a C3, 10-15 years old with fairly low-mileage, from the original owner.

If you go to a used piano dealer, the same money will get you an RX3 or a C3 that is more like 25-30 years old, but the price will include delivery and a warranty.

Mason and Hamlin is a well-respected American firm that has been building high-quality instruments for a very long time. They never developed the market visibility of Steinway and Sons, but many pianists and piano technicians consider their quality level to be similar. 

[derschoenebahnhof]

If you buy from a dealer, you should be able to negotiate a price which includes tax, bench, delivery, and a visit to your home from an experienced technician to tune and voice the piano to your satisfaction.

Hmm, the dealer wouldn't budge on price. Said was factory sale, maybe he could have complimentary delivery but would have to talk to his boss...

$15-20k should buy you a really nice piano, whether you decide to buy new or used!

I would stay away from the cheaper Yamaha grands. Yamaha is not an inexpensive brand. If you are looking to buy an inexpensive grand, there are many good manufactures which specialize in this segment of the market, and you would do well to consider them.

For 20k  on the private market, you should be able to get one of the 6-foot Japanese instruments, either an RX3 or a C3, 10-15 years old with fairly low-mileage, from the original owner.

If you go to a used piano dealer, the same money will get you an RX3 or a C3 that is more like 25-30 years old, but the price will include delivery and a warranty.

Mason and Hamlin is a well-respected American firm that has been building high-quality instruments for a very long time. They never developed the market visibility of Steinway and Sons, but many pianists and piano technicians consider their quality level to be similar. 

Thanks for the advice! It looks like the best bang for the buck is in used piano with individual owner.

What are the other manufacturers in the inexpensive market that you mention? I can only think of a few so far, like Young Chang and Cable Nelson, and I don't think I would go with either one.

Thanks,
CG

[hfmadopter]

I think I would start by going back and checking out that Mason and Hamlin a little closer since you had a good feeling with it. It's a very good brand.

[kalirren]

My favorite piano in college was a Mason and Hamlin.  I have a wonderful piano that my neighborhood dealer helped me find, but if I were to be back in the market, they're the first brand I'd look for.

If you're looking the C2-C3, have you considered the Avant-grand digital?  An Avantgrand costs about half as much as a comparable grand, fits in the space of an upright, has a real grand piano action, and you can practice with headphones...

[derschoenebahnhof]

I think I would start by going back and checking out that Mason and Hamlin a little closer since you had a good feeling with it. It's a very good brand.

Great suggestion. Already forgot age and price of that one but I found the sound just gorgeous. Will have to go back on day off without wife and kid :-p

[derschoenebahnhof]

My favorite piano in college was a Mason and Hamlin.  I have a wonderful piano that my neighborhood dealer helped me find, but if I were to be back in the market, they're the first brand I'd look for.

If you're looking the C2-C3, have you considered the Avant-grand digital?  An Avantgrand costs about half as much as a comparable grand, fits in the space of an upright, has a real grand piano action, and you can practice with headphones...

I hadn't thought about that one. I currently have a Yamaha YDP-181. With headphones (nice ones BTW), the sound comes pretty good, but they don't get the "damper resonance" feeling quite right. The speakers produce average sound, a bit metallic though.

Did the Avant Grand figure out all the subtleties of damper resonance, pedal noise, key bed noise, etc. to produce a convincing piano sound and how does the sound project in the room? That would be my worry. Maybe they did, would have to try it out at dealer.

And also, I would miss the real look of a piano with the frame, strings, hammers, etc. Call me nostalgic maybe. On the other hand, if they got much better speakers than the 181 and a realistic damper resonance, it would nicely replace my YDP-181.

Best,
CG

[hfmadopter]

Great suggestion. Already forgot age and price of that one but I found the sound just gorgeous. Will have to go back on day off without wife and kid :-p

Maybe it's just the one for you, good luck and hope it goes well !

There is one in a local shop down the street from my house, basically original except it's had some finish work done to it ( satin ebony, aka: black) . He wants $11000 US for it. He is having a hard time selling it because everyone wants the glossy black, bright and shiny new Hardman Pianos he sells for less than that brand new. I can tell you that the Hardman's are made in China, the action is nothing like the Mason and Hamlin, the keys move side to side I think worse than my late 1800's Henry F Miller and the sound is not as good as either the Miller or the Mason and Hamlin.  So if you are looking for an inexpensive Chinese piano brand new, I can't suggest that brand.