Buying Casio PX-780, AP-650 or Kawai CN-34?

[unic]

I'm about to get my first digital piano, and am leaning towards one of these three models, purchased from Thomann - I definitely can't afford any more expensive than the Kawai CN-34.

How do they compare? 

The Casio AP-650 has higher polyphony, better speakers, and string resonance compared with the PX-780, but as far as I can read, they have the same sounds apart from these effects, and the same key action.

The CN-34 does have different key actions and sounds, including full 88-key sampling - how well does it compare with the AP-650?

Is it worth spending an extra €200 to get the AP-650, or an extra €400 to get the CN-34, compared with the €1100 cost of the PX-780?  Unfortunately, as I live very remotely, I've been unable to test any of these in person.  They all seem to have the features I wish, so my question is mainly about the quality of the sounds, and the feel of the key action.

While the acoustic piano is the main sound, I am not only interested in the quality of the piano sound, but also in the sounds of the other included instruments - clarinet, flute, trombone, pipe organ, violin, cello, and so on. 

Can you please give me advice on the sounds and key action feel of these?  Are there reasons to spend extra and get a better model, or should I just stick with my cheapest option?

[liszt1022]

I've never met a Casio I liked.

[unic]

I've never met a Casio I liked.

What is it about them that you haven't liked?

[hfmadopter]

What is it about them that you haven't liked?

It's the same for me, all the Casios I've played did not have keys of which i would want to own . Kawai on the other hand has and that's what I bought ( not the model you want to buy but yours should have even better keys). i think that is where you will find the difference between Casio and Kawai, not to mention over all build quality. Kawai is very good acoustic piano builder, they know what pianos are supposed to play like, how the keys should feel and how they should sound. A lot of people enjoy their Casio pianos though. All I can say is I've played several models of Casio and they did not give me a real piano feel at all. The keys were too light, the throws were not deep enough, the sounds were canned. The fit and finish of the piano didn't spell quality out to me.  Kawai doesn't nail all instrument sounds perfectly, they get the flute, string quartets and ensembles, full orchestra, brass band and pipe organ very well. I'm sure the later ones are even better than mine.

IMO, my honest opinion, you should plan a trip and or buy one with a return policy. You have to play them to experience the difference at any rate. You can't go by internet specs.

[briansaddleback]

Also put me down as one not preferring Casio.

I like everything about their Privia line. It is top notch and well worth your money, but for me the stickler is the black keys side -to -side action. It is too loose. There is too much wiggle.


I have a tendency to come down on lower end and high end octave keys at a slight angle when playing jumps and so forth and the casio black keys are too loose to sustain that over a long period of time.
the yamahas and kawais have firmer or more consistent actions that can take it.


Now, if Casio fixes that for the next generation of Privias, I will be all over the PX150 next model. You cant beat a top notch keyboard for only 500 bucks.

[thorstenmuc]

I'm currently researching for the same decision, and so found this thread.

Casio's latest models greatly improved on key-action and sound (AiR). So I don't want to offend anybody - but I guess people categorical advising against a piano, just cause it's a Casio haven't tested Casio models for some years.

Of course you can't compare the Casios to a Yamaha Clavinova or Kawai Concert Artist - but that's not the competition Casio is aiming anyway. What I found the latest Casio generation is very good value for it's price-point - some nice tests can be found here: https://azpianonews.blogspot.de

E.g. the cheapest Yamaha offering for a cabinet piano with accompanies (YDP-V240) has the very simple GHS key-action, which is way inferior to the Casio keys (they are more closely to Yamaha GH3)..

Kawai's CN-34 seems very attractive... but "only" has a very simple rhythm-section whilst casio has a keyboard-like accompany-function. Of course quality may vary and "drum rhythms" may be all you want...
If you don't need the cabinet-style - maybe Kawai ES-7 may be interesting.

You probably, like myself, already watched lot of the videos regarding these pianos on YouTube... but at the end it comes down to testing yourself - how YOU like the key-action and YOU like the sound.
So when spending ~1.000€ I really would spend the gas-/ public-transport money and take a day-trip to the next city for testing myself.

[unic]

Casio's latest models greatly improved on key-action and sound (AiR).

That's my impression as well - from testing Casio, I found them about on par with Yamaha P-155, whereas I found Roland's key action slightly better than both.

some nice tests can be found here: https://azpianonews.blogspot.de

Given that he sells pianos, I think he might have a bit of a business-related bias in his reviews.  Still, he likes both Casio and Kawai, which are what I am choosing between (Yamaha does not offer a model in my price range with the features I want, and Roland HP504 seems to generally worse specs than the Kawai CN-34).

Kawai's CN-34 seems very attractive... but "only" has a very simple rhythm-section whilst casio has a keyboard-like accompany-function. Of course quality may vary and "drum rhythms" may be all you want...

I think the CN-34's metronome rhytms will be plenty enough for me - I'm not really that interested in full accompaniment features.

If you don't need the cabinet-style - maybe Kawai ES-7 may be interesting.

I do prefer a cabinet-style one, and I also like the considerably larger range of voices that the CN-34 offers.

You probably, like myself, already watched lot of the videos regarding these pianos on YouTube... but at the end it comes down to testing yourself - how YOU like the key-action and YOU like the sound.
So when spending ~1.000€ I really would spend the gas-/ public-transport money and take a day-trip to the next city for testing myself.

Problem is, it's not the next city - I've been to nearby cities to test Casio, Yamaha and Roland, but the only Kawai retailer in the country would be a full-day excursion costing close to €200.  I'm better off ordering the piano, and if I really don't get along with it, use Thomann's money-back guarantee.

Everything I've read, here and elsewhere, points towards the Kawai CN-34 being the best choice for my budget and my particular wishes for what I want from my digital piano... I do wish that I could test it, but I think I'll just have to take the plunge regardless.  It's a shame Kawai aren't more widely distributed around here.

[pogmoger]

I'm reading all of this with interest, as I recently tried a Kawai CN34 and a Casio AP450. They were both at the same store.

Honestly, I hadn't played on a Casio keyboard/digital piano since the 1990s, and I was expecting it to be awful. But although it was quite a bit cheaper than the Kawai, I preferred the Casio based on both touch and tone. The manager of the store said he agreed with me - didn't try to convince me that the more expensive one was best. Make of that what you will...

As for my decision, I'm definitely going to go for the Casio. I'm not looking for anything too fancy, just something not too expensive to practice on when I don't want to bother my neighbours. But I'd sooner not bother to get either of them if I didn't think the touch was close to that of a real piano. The responsiveness of the Casio really was a pleasant surprise.

[liszt1022]

Everyone praising Casio in this thread works for Casio.

[pogmoger]

Everyone praising Casio in this thread works for Casio.

Well that's just an idiotic thing to say. I don't work in the piano industry and I never have. I was genuinely disappointed when I recently played a Kawai digital, and impressed when I played a Casio. I have no bias, and I have nothing against Kawai as a company. It's very possible that I will be buying a Shigeru Kawai grand soon. Because in my opinion Shigeru grands are the best available in their price range. And the same goes for Casio digitals.

[pogmoger]

To the OP: I would order the Kawai if this is the only way you can get to try it out. As long as you have the money back guarantee/exchange if you don't like it, you have nothing to lose. Really, just because I prefer Casio doesn't mean that you will. And just because there are some aggressive pro-Kawai opinionated people here doesn't mean that I am wrong and the Kawai is objectively better either. The two products are both good quality and preference is entirely subjective.  

Although shipping a digital piano could be expensive (big, heavy, and high insurance value.) Even if you can get a refund if you don't like it, it might be the case that if there is no fault with the instrument, you are liable for return shipping costs. I would double check this before placing the order, as it may end up cheaper to travel to where you can try out the instrument in a store than returning the Kawai if you don't like it.

[pogmoger]

If you were going to order from Thomann:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/helpdesk_moneyback.html

'If you're not completely satisfied, please contact us, and we'll arrange for you a free return service (within Germany only).'

Looks like if you are not in Germany, a return might not be entirely free. Perhaps you should e-mail them and ask.

[thorstenmuc]

Everyone praising Casio in this thread works for Casio.

Ran out of arguments? 

I for my point work in the IT-Business, have no relation to Casio except an 20 year old calculator and currently own a Yamaha digital piano.

[toolsche]

Hi, did you already order something?

I have been looking for a decent digital piano in the last four months and played a lot instruments.

Initially my preferred choices were:
- Kawai ES-7: 1390€ (as initially I wanted something portable)
- Casio PX-A800: 1029€ (nice wooden look, anniversary model)
- Kawai CN24/34: 1299€/1499€
- Yamaha CLP 430: 1498€
- Yamaha CLP 525: 1299€ (new since 04/2014 => with GH3 keyboard)

I really liked the look of the Casio and hoped I would enjoy to play it. So I went to Thomann and played the similar AP-450.
Unfortunately I was very disappointed of the keys although many people in forums said they liked it. In my opinion it was
too bouncy. I played a key and when I let off it kind of bounced a little too much, which felt cheap too me. Another time I
tried again and played the Casio PX-150/350 and it was the same experience. I think in the range from 500-800€ Casio is
really a good choice, but if you can afford more, my advice is to stick with Yamaha or Kawai.
I also played some Rolands and the keys were too soft for me.

What I really liked was the feeling and sound of Yamaha and Kawai.
If you don't need a piano like look, I suggest the Kawai ES-7 which has really good speakers and awesome keys.
I would have bought it if my wife didn't insist on a more piano like look .

So I played the Kawai CN24/34, Yamaha CLP 430 and 525. They are all really nice and you have to play it and decide on your
personal feeling. Finally I decided to take the CN34 in favor of the CN24 and the Yamahas because I liked the sound of Kawai
and as a plus it has a small display, line in/out, USB-Midi, MP3 recording and drum rhythms to play along.