Anyone like opera? [Bob asks]

[Bob]

just curious

Did you always like it?  Or do you think it's "acquired?"  I was just listening to a piece that sounded really good.

What do you like about it?  What's your favorite _____ and all that?

[m1469]

Did you always like it?  Or do you think it's "acquired?"  I was just listening to a piece that sounded really good.

You know, I am not certain as to whether or not I have always liked it (nor do I know for sure if I currently like it  :-).   I do know, however, that it's pretty da*n fun to sing it!  I have not been singing for a little while now, and I am actually missing it quite a bit lately.  But, I think to a degree it is an acquired taste, probably just as much as anything else anyway.

I will admit though, I am not sure if I would appreciate it as much should I not sing it.  But that's just me.

What were you listening to?

My favorite aria for several months now, or perhaps even a year or so, is "Lo sguardo avea de Angeli" (lit. trans:  the face he had of the angels) from Masnadieri by Verdi.  It tickles me.  I have yet to find a recording that really strikes me though.

The opera itself is fairly complicated if I am remembering correctly and it never became too popular.  I find this particular aria to be a jewel.  As a matter of fact, I havn't been able to get it out of my head for several weeks now and I have been singing it all over the house, but I can't seem to find where I put the music, and it's very obscure.... uh, sorry.

Anyway, just thought I would chime on in.   Happy listening!

m1469

[rachlisztchopin]

wagner is my favorite opera composer...he wrote one hell of a long opera called der ringe but i haven't heard it yet...im sure its great like the other operas he wrote...thank goodness liszt transcribed wagner operas to piano music

[Tash]

i think it is 'aquired' i'm just starting to get into opera now. like before this year i didn't listen to it, but after being forced to for music literature tests at uni i'm starting to develop a better appreciation for it- in fact i'm about to go listen to mozart's magic flute to see what i think of it. but i thought maybe i'd start off listening to choarl music, just to sort of get used to listening to voices in classical music and then move onto opera after that. and now after being in the choir this semester and actually seriously singing handel and haydn choral works i love the stuff! i think it's better if you can somehow relate to it- like being in the choir made me more aware of the different parts in choral music and how it all works together etc. so i think it's time to start working on opera. and i am taking an interest in it, but i can say i don't really like alban berg's wozzeck, or baroque opera- all the ornamentation and harpsichord annoys the hell out of me. but we'll see what i think in about 6 months time!
i do like wagner's tristan und isolde though, it's nice

[galonia]

I love opera, but I think it is definitely an acquired taste!

tash, Mozart's Magic Flute is a good place to start with opera; it's funny and the music is very easy on the ear.

[Bob]

I was listening to Puccini, La boheme, "Che Gelida Manina"

That's all the info I've got.  I didn't know what it was until I checked now.  Go figure that I liked it since it's Puccini... :_

[JK]

Yes!! I LOVE opera. But as said it is difinately an aquired taste. When I was younger I used to assume that i didn't like opera because everyone else was like "oh have you heard those whinny women on the radio....". Then my music teacher at school lent me Mozarts' Don Giovanni with a score as well, as soon as I got to know it my whole opinion changed. Luckilly this was when I was in my early teens. Now my favourite opera composer is definately WAGNER! My favourite opera is Tristan und Isolde, although at first I didn't like this opera either, but I went and bought the cds and listened to it properly and the rest as they say is history! I wish people wouldn't assume, like I did that they don't like opera, if you have never, listened to it properly then you cannot jump to this conclusion, of course if you have tried to listen to it and still don't like it then thats a bit different.

[rachlisztchopin]

i know this isn't relavent but im curious who you are....for some reason the guy who posted above me appears as and is a senior member...i havent seen you much

[Bob]

Yes, that is interesting.  I see that name as three question marks       I haven't seen the name until today, but it's a senior member.... hmm......   Maybe someone changed their name?   To a swear word perhaps?  Me's confus-ed.

[Stolzing]

I got into opera after liking the singing in Beethoven's 9th symphony.  My username on here is from one of the main character's from Wagner's Meistersinger von Nürenberg: Walter von Stolzing.  If you want to get into opera, a really accessible one for newbies would probably be Mascagni's Cavalleria Rusticana.  Remember if you're getting into opera, not all operas are the same.  If you listen to a Mozart opera and dont like it, you might like a more modern composer like Puccini.

[DarkWind]

After last week borrowing a video from library, Das Rheingold, I'm hooked. I can see why this was considered some of the best entertainment a 100 years ago. If you think just the music is good, get a video. It will blow your mind away!

[tomclear]

  My opera experience was a lot like my jazz experience: I heard so many
 atrocious performances I swore off it for years.  Seattle's RIGOLETTO a few
months ago was great! Big, big voices.
  Opera story:
 I once witnessed the final dress rehearsal of The Marriage of Figaro @ the
St. Louis Opera Theater. The conductor was a well-known radio "personality"
who has had a classical show on for 25 years; apparently he conducts a lot
of chamber music and thought he was ready for opera.
 After a very painful 2 hours, with lots of stops and starts and obvious bewilderment
on the part of the orchestra and singers, Figaro stepped downstage, pointed
into the pit, and bellowed, "We have to talk!"
The guy was on a plane back to Minneapolis that afternoon; they had to fly in
some savior and it cost a fortune.

[Daniel_piano]

I don't Opera is aquired, is just another way of espressing music similar to a modern musical
I think the problem with Opera is the language of libretti so that the audience don't understand anything at least they read the libretto in the meanwhile (that is: if you can find it)

My favorite Opera are those of Mozart: like Abudction of Serraglio and Magic Flute, Tchaikovsky's Eugene Onegin (another opera with great music and wonderful plot) Debussy's Pelleas and Melisande, Puccini's Madame Butterfly and La Boheme, Verdi's Aida and Rigoletto, Strauss' the Bat and Leoncavallo's the Clowns
I'm also particularly fond of Operas by Rossini that I find always brilliant and interesting with really beautiful music: The Thief Magpie, William Tell, The Barber of Siville, An Italian in Algeri, Cinderella, Semiramide

I'm not particularly fond of Wagner whose Operas I find sometimes too long and prolix, but it's just my taste

Daniel

[Daniel_piano]

wagner is my favorite opera composer...he wrote one *** of a long opera called der ringe but i haven't heard it yet...im sure its great like the other operas he wrote...thank goodness liszt transcribed wagner operas to piano music

Actually der ring is a series of operas all about the same myths, so it's more a saga where Wagner collected his better operas
Der Ring includes the famous operas:

Gold of the Reihn River
The Walkirie
Siegfried
Twilight of the Gods

sometimes these Operas that form Der Ring are performed separated sometimes they're performed in a row

Daniel
 

[rachlisztchopin]

oh ok i didn't know that....even though i like wagner a lot i really don't know much about his works

[Tash]

ok well i've listened to the magic flute now and i quite liked it, so i think i'll go find myself a nice stash of opera to listen to. better yet i'll get a video cos that'd be even more exciting! actually the australian opera is putting on prokofiev's love of three oranges on at the beginning of next year, maybe i'll go persuade my mum to get me a ticket hehehe...

[ChristmasCarol]

I used to say a bit too hastily that I didn't like opera.  As I've gotten older I realize that a lot of opera singers just overdo the vibrato and the stiff body posture for my taste.  Do they have to sing with one hand in the other, their chin doubled up, eyes wide open?   I also am not crazy about singers for whom the notes are all that matters - the words are secondary.  I worked as a rehearsal pianist for a time for a classically trained singer who had a voice to die for.  We worked on Faure and Schubert and I fell in love with the short pieces.   I'm a singer also, and can count on one hand the number of singers that I adore.  So, here's my long way of saying, I like opera if the singers are truly good and have lovely tones and graceful delivery both physically and vocally.

[tosca1]

I adore opera, but I agree with Christmas Carol that the magic of opera will not work unless the singers can deliver the goods. Often the plots are preposterous and the conventions of opera may put off some people, yet it is the incomparable communicative power of beautiful, dramatic or lyrical singing that touches our soul.
I prefer to listen to opera on CD rather than have the visual distraction of video or DVD and then I can use my own imagination.  In a beautiful opera house, opera is a highly theatrical experience as well a movingly musical one.  All the elements of opera, the visual, the musical, the vocal and the collective response of the audience can combine to create an enthralling experience.

Robert.

[ted]

The only opera I have heard that I like is Joplin's Treemonisha, but most people on forums say this work is not opera. Assuming this assertion is true I therefore do not like opera at all. I don't find it unpleasant, but like the music of Beethoven, Mozart and those other true classical composers, it's just a vaguely old-fashioned sound which seems to go on for too long.

[hodi]

i hate operas.. although i really like classical music.. i just can't like those annoying voices.

[JK]

I don't find it unpleasant, but like the music of Beethoven, Mozart and those other true classical composers, it's just a vaguely old-fashioned sound which seems to go on for too long.

Umm I don't understand, are you saying that the music of beethoen and Mozart sounds old fashioned and goes on for too long, or just their operas? I can't understand how any classical music can sound old fashioned.

hate operas.. although i really like classical music.. i just can't like those annoying voices.

Can I ask, how many operas have you listened to, have you ever sat down with a score and libretto and tried to get to know the opera? If you had asked me the same question about 5 years ago I would have said the same thing, but when I actually gave it a chance and sat down with a score and libretto and actually tried to get to know Mozarts' Don Giovanni I suddenly realised what I had been missing. I would also disagree that the voices are annoying, of course you can hold this opinion, but in my opinion GOOD singing is one of the most beautiful sounds there is, and one of the most expressive. Opera is rarely something that you like straight away, when I first heard Wagners' Tristan Und Isolde I cringed and couldn't undestand what it was about, but I went out and bought the cds of it and followed the libretto and took time to get to know it, now I realise that it's is one of the most incredibly powerful and moving pieces of music ever written. I would seriously urge you to give opera another chance as if you don't then you will be missing out on what is in my opinion an incredible genre of music. 

[ted]

JK:

In that post I was being a trifle more cavalier than people here are used to. "Old-fashioned" has a pejorative connotation but I cannot think of an appropriate word. My mental progression seems to be going in the opposite direction to normal, and as I approach late middle age the music of the immortals interests me less and less. Most people go the other way, so I am at a loss to explain this phenomenon of retarded adolescence. I also seem to be going very slightly short-sighted instead of the more usual long-sighted; perhaps there is a connection, both actual and metaphorical.

I do, in fact, like very many musical sounds of the past; it's just that classical music is not one of them. I have, of course, tried assiduously to understand Beethoven, Mozart and the rest; mine is not a position of ignorance, and I am not without hope that one day I shall experience a blinding flash of enlightenment.

As for opera, I think with me that is a social thing; you probably have to actually attend opera to appreciate it. The last formal musical event of any sort I attended was around thirty years ago. In these days of DVD perhaps I ought to watch a few of opera and see how I react. I do like Treemonisha though - for some reason that moves me very profoundly, but again, I don't really know why.

[JK]

JK:

In that post I was being a trifle more cavalier than people here are used to. "Old-fashioned" has a pejorative connotation but I cannot think of an appropriate word. My mental progression seems to be going in the opposite direction to normal, and as I approach late middle age the music of the immortals interests me less and less. Most people go the other way, so I am at a loss to explain this phenomenon of retarded adolescence. I also seem to be going very slightly short-sighted instead of the more usual long-sighted; perhaps there is a connection, both actual and metaphorical.

I do, in fact, like very many musical sounds of the past; it's just that classical music is not one of them. I have, of course, tried assiduously to understand Beethoven, Mozart and the rest; mine is not a position of ignorance, and I am not without hope that one day I shall experience a blinding flash of enlightenment.

As for opera, I think with me that is a social thing; you probably have to actually attend opera to appreciate it. The last formal musical event of any sort I attended was around thirty years ago. In these days of DVD perhaps I ought to watch a few of opera and see how I react. I do like Treemonisha though - for some reason that moves me very profoundly, but again, I don't really know why.

That's interesting, yes its true that a lot of people as they get older turn to bach and beethoven more, it seems sometimes you can't be taken seriously playing the late beethoven sonatas without being like 70+!! Its interesting that you feel as if you are moving away from those composers. I agree that opera is better when you see it live, the music can be made so much more effective if accompanied by the correct lighting and set etc. Of course a bad or distasteful production can be not so good, recently in London they did Mozarts' Don giovanni in the style of Resevoir dogs, with Giovanni as a drugged up alchoholic who deals in drugs and guns...

[hodi]

u know.. maybe i should listen to an opera in depth.. but i'm too lazy to do that 

[chozart]

Of course I'm a fan of opera
one of the reasons why I love Mozart so much 
generally his music, but his choral works I really enjoy...
My favorites are probably Le Nozze de Figaro and Don Giovanni

btw.. anyone have any recordings of Così fan tutte?

[m1469]

Wow! I am so happy to have read so many interesting posts and viewpoints from people on this topic.  I feel inspired to sit down and truly study an opera in depth, I will start with Don Giovanni and have already made arrangements for recordings and scores.   I don't know what I have been waiting for!

Thanks,

m1469 Fox

[galonia]

Of course I'm a fan of opera
one of the reasons why I love Mozart so much
generally his music, but his choral works I really enjoy...
My favorites are probably Le Nozze de Figaro and Don Giovanni

btw.. anyone have any recordings of Così fan tutte?

Oh yeah!  In those days, opera was THE art form.  Mozart would prefer to be remembered for writing great opera than for his keyboard sonatas.  My teacher always reminds me to play the slow movements as beautfiul operatic arias.

[kaff]

Yes! I've done more singing than piano playing in my adult life, and some of the best bits have been opera.  I like Puccini, and Mozart (especially his ensembles), and Wagner's great fun (but long to watch).  I'm less keen on Verdi - I find the music a bit too "bashy".  I really like Monteverdi's Orfeo, which is I believe considered to be the first proper opera.  You can really hear how it's grown out of both sacred choral music, and folky dancey music.  And for absolutely the creepiest, most harrowing aria, have a listen to Ottavia's Act 1 aria in Monteverdi's "L'incoronazione di Poppea".  It's a rant against her unfaithful husband (Roman emperor Nero), and goes on about how wretched women's lives are - how nature and heaven have made us free, but marriage binds us in chains.  If we conceive man in our wombs, we form the limbs of our evil tyrant who butchers us and bleeds us to death...Charming stuff!  While I was learning this aria, I discovered I was pregnant, which was a bit scary!  So I called my daughter Poppy, after the opera.  Hopefully it won't turn out to be prophetic - although the Poppea in the opera ended up getting the bloke (Nero), what the opera doesn't go on to tell is how Nero kicked the real Poppea to death while she was pregnant.  I guess Monteverdi thought that would be just too scary.

Kathryn

[Nina_too]

I was lukewarm about opera until I saw an actual top-flight performance (Sydney Opera doing "Rigoletto").  After that, I was hooked!

There is nothing to compare to a full-out operatic production:  the music, the voices, the costumes, the sets, the oftentimes outrageous story lines.  It's such grand and dramatic theater that it really pays to see the performance, not just listen to the CDs.

Opera moves me in some fundamental way.  I think it's all that effort, creativity and passion going into a performance that is, ultimately, so humanly inspired.  I love it!

[chozart]

Oh yeah!  In those days, opera was THE art form.  Mozart would prefer to be remembered for writing great opera than for his keyboard sonatas.

indeed

his keyboard works are nice, but really.. his greatest achievements are his operas and orchestral works.

My teacher always reminds me to play the slow movements as beautfiul operatic arias.

She's right.. it's important to keep that in mind.
People often forget that.. many assume he's just an old traditional composer with "fluffy and cheerful" music, few of them even knowing that it was he who composed so many greatly moving works like masses, operas, etc.. often forgetting there was so much more

Opera was where his heart lied; he would write on and on, his heart and mind almost bursting in trying to write it all down - a masterpiece waiting to be born.. and by the addition of powerful and supportive string sections, he felt no limits as to what the voice could do to telling the story

[athykay]

I love opera, although, I'm no buff.  Doesn't help that my husband perfers 60s R&R.   I just met a nice lesbian couple who have invited me to accompany them to their jaunts to the Portland, Maine opera offerings (they have season tickets) and I think I may just take them up on it. 

I do believe it is an acquired taste.  I acquired my taste at music school, too during the the Music History section on opera,  so, Tash take it in and you'll probably end up loving it for life.

My personal favorites are of the lighter variety, La Boheme, and all of Mozart's and Rossini's.  I came to really love Don Giovanni after seeing the film, "Amadeus."  They ingeniously tied in the death of Mozart's father with the music of that opera .  I swear, that movie was a boon to the classical music industry in terms of getting all manner of people interested in Mozart.

I was fortunate enough to have seen a performance of Rigoletto at the ruins of the Colliseum in Rome many years ago - a life altering experience.

One of my favorite CDs is "Opera Goes to the Movies," which is a compilation of famous (and not so famous . at least prior to the piece's use in the movie) opera pieces used in well known movies.   I first heard the aria (can't remember the name) from La Wally there, which is one of my all-time favorite arias.

[realitytest]

I confess, I do NOT like Opera.

However, I think this is partly a genetic trait.

Intent on giving my children every opportunity to form their own tastes, I took both boys (especially the older one) to many operas  starting from when he was small. As he has marked ADD, by heart was in my throat the first time.

Of course, I carefully camouflaged my disinterest, nay pained boredom,  for fear of influencing him.  Note that these were excellent  traveling opera companies - not local amateurs. 

To my astonishment, he was entranced!  I assume he inherited this love from his great grandparents (this had been my hope) .  My grandfather (whom I never knew), was an Opera impresario.   He was  under consideration as general manager of the Met!  An Opera major told me he had even heard of him in studying the field (though Grandpa was a relatively small potato).  He was good friends with  THE prima donnas of the day.  In fact, he ran off with one of them, thus ending my grandparents'  marriage.   

I consider Opera rather like Kabuki  - all pageantry and tradition. The show is all.  However,  I cannot “willingly suspend disbelief” enough to get involved.  Oddly, I DO like some shows considered (so I hear) American opera, such as “Porgy and Bess”.  I don’t know if this is because I understand the language or not as I am a language buff and speak Russian, German and French (well,  the Russian is a “used to speak”).

rt . 
 

[alice oliver]

reality test, have you ever listened to any mozart opera?  lots of people who don't care for opera in general really love mozart opera.  a good introduction would be The Marriage of Figaro.  rent a DVD with subtitles.  it's really a musical comedy and the tunes are sublime!

i hated opera as a kid, i thought it was pretentious.  but then i fell in love with the music of opera, with its lyricism, and with the sound of the human voice, especially a good mezzo or tenor.

my first introduction to it was when i was in music school, i heard someone singing an aria "Manon Lescaut" and i was thoroughly entranced.  i was sure it could not be opera, i knew i hated opera.  i thought it must be leider or something instead.

i could not get that melody out of my head, so finally i played it on the piano for a composer friend who identified it for me.  i was shocked.  i started tagging along to the opera with friends, especially the free summer opera series in central park, the fully staged New York Grand Opera, and the two metropolitan opera concert presentations on the great lawn each summer.  i discovered that i loved it after all.

then the movie of "carmen" came out with placido domingo in the leading role and i was thoroughly smitten by his voice and his musicianship.  i started to get standing room tickets at the met, and buy videos and recordings.

what i find so electrifying about opera is how the music is intertwined with the theater of it.  how a musical theme can be used to foreshadow events, or herald a character's imminent appearance.  it is very rich, much more than the sum of its parts.

and how i wish i could sing like that!

[realitytest]

Alice, what are you doing on-line instead of working?  (And what am I doing on line instead of working too?... )  I KNEW you would scold me if you saw my post.

Well,  all I  can say is I love singing - listening and doing it - but I must be  a peasant at heart, because I seem to just prefer folk.  (I hasten to  add *cough. cough* Air!  Air!!  That I DON'T like Country-Western.  In case anyone considers that "folk").

And I HAVE been to several Mozart Operas,  including "the Magic Flute".  In fact,  my oh-so-accomplished roommate at my first college had the lead in it, which is why I attended  and it still didn't take.

 She had a beautiful soprano - so beautiful the head of the Music Department cried when she decided not to pursue a professional career in Opera.  She ended up choosing (with difficulty) to become a Medieval historian. She said she had known that's what she wanted since she was an eleven year old freshman at the Bronx High School of Science  -  which predictably, she had loathed.

And I  didn't like Opera even with my best friend starring in "the Magic Flute"...And I never did,  numerous  Mozart (and other) Operas later.  Sorry!  Blame it on my genes.  That one must have been recessive in my family. 

( Say, haven't we had this talk before?  *scratches the ground with one foot in embarrasment, looking abashed.*  I guess, I will just have to be regarded with contempt by all you high-brows forever).

realitytest

[Floristan]

What clenched it for me was the first time I saw a major production at the Met.  It was "Salome," I think.  Blew me away!  Sure, I'd heard recordings, but to actually have the whole multi-media experience, only then do you realize why opera is so powerful.  It's drama (well, often melodrama, but that's OK), and it's meant to be seen and experienced.  If you think you don't like opera, go to a big production and then see how you feel.

I prefer German opera, from Der Zauberflote, Die Freischutz and Fidelio to Wozzek and Lulu.  Love Wagner and Strauss.  Not so fond of Verdi as a whole (too melodramatic), though love individual arias.  Adore Puccini, also melodramatic, but somehow it's OK because the melodies are so heavenly and treat the voices so well, and the emphasis is on the romance more than the melodrama.  I also enjoy seeing (though not listening to on CD) Bellini and Donezetti.  It's wonderful to see a soprano do those bel canto gymnastics, just astounding.  Saw both Beverly Sills and Joan Sutherland.  Ennoy Bizet.  Not fond of French opera, especially Offenbach (is it really opera or operetta?).  Give me a night of "Zauberflote" or "Don Giovanni" or "Der Rosenkavelier" or "Salome" or "Electra" and I'm in heaven!