Original Performance Practice

[louispodesta]

Okay, my Gofundme crowd funding page promoting my Historical Piano News Story video has been up for 14 days, with a grand total contribution of five dollars (my money).

I will not list the link because you know how to look it up on your own, and then type my first and last name in their search engine.

Please read the descriptive, which as I have stated before, has been endorsed by the renowned applied musicologists  Dr.'s Clive Brown (University of Leeds) and Neal Peres Da Costa (Sydney Conservatorium)

Most importantly, please read my comments regarding the criteria for contributions.  I will accept no contribution over five dollars.  Originally, I was going to limit it to one dollar, which is not allowed.

Accordingly, there are millions of pianists in the U.S. and the world who have no knowledge of original keyboard performance practice.  And, I think that five US dollars is more than reasonable price to pay for this basic level of keyboard pedagogical knowledge.

Finally, a very heartfelt thanks for your past criticism and support in the past on this matter.

[toughbo]

Is this in the vein of the interviews with Sergio Fiorentino on youtube? He shows several examples of how, for instance, Rachmaninoff played chords etc. compared to how we do it now.

[louispodesta]

Is this in the vein of the interviews with Sergio Fiorentino on youtube? He shows several examples of how, for instance, Rachmaninoff played chords etc. compared to how we do it now.

I am unfamiliar with your reference.  However, by typing Historic Piano News Story into Gofundme's search engine a full explanation should come up.  Additionally, my comment to the last posted on my video gives a more detailed answer to your question.

Thanks for your input, and you may know that in early piano roll recordings Rachmaninoff regularly rolled his chords, frequently played broken octaves, and played the major bass notes slightly ahead of the top in order to accentuate the melody.

Also, in that they were close friends, a listen to any of Earl Wild's extensive Rachmaninoff recordings will show exactly this type of approach.

[louispodesta]

For those who have had trouble finding me on Gofundme, here are new instructions:

1)  Go to their website, and then scroll down to the buttons which list the various categories of projects.

2)  Then, off to the right, click until you see the one for "Creative."

3)  Click on creative, and then under refined search, type my name in normal fashion.

That will bring it up.  Sorry, for the confusion, I don't make their rules

[louispodesta]

And, most importantly, no one who chooses to donate is allowed to pay more than 5 US dollars.  Do I have direct control over this method of payment (and subsequent rebate)?  Yes, I do!

Why?

There are millions of pianists around the world, who have spent thousands of practice hours perfecting note perfect performance, which never existed in the era of the composer/pianists who originally composed, performed and taught this great music.

The purposive nature of my current Gofundme campaign is to fulfill my wish that "original performance" be known to all musicians (and the general public).

[tenk]

So you've graduated from hawking nonsense on these boards to just straight begging for money. Wonderful...

There are millions of pianists around the world, who have spent thousands of practice hours perfecting note perfect performance, which never existed in the era of the composer/pianists who originally composed, performed and taught this great music.

Who cares? This is art. The people generally held in the highest regards in artistic fields are the ones who forge new ground, discover unique methods or interpretations, and most importantly connect with their audience. Not sure how what you're peddling accomplishes any of these goals.

[louispodesta]

"Who cares? This is art. The people generally held in the highest regards in artistic fields are the ones who forge new ground, discover unique methods or interpretations, and most importantly connect with their audience. Not sure how what you're peddling accomplishes any of these goals."

Thank you for broaching the subject of the philosophy of Modernity/Modernism as it relates to the Fine Arts.  Most of us, have no knowledge of this subject.

To weigh in on your argument (in my opinion, and that of many musicologists) Modernity was never meant to be applied to pre-existing works.  For example, would you walk into any Art Museum and then give everything a fresh coat of paint?

Accordingly, (Dr. Neal Peres Da Costa), the music conservatories of this world have bastardized the great compositions of the composer/pianists of the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries.

That is the predicate associated with "Original Performance Practice," which is the purpose of my news story video.

[louispodesta]

For everyone, who has not made a 5 dollar contribution, I suggest the following:

Please post a comment regarding the specific predicate associated with this news stpory video.
Then, state your like/dislike of the matter. That effort costs you nothing.

Once again:

1) Type in Godfundme and then scroll down to the button categories listing the various categories.

2)  Then, (off to the very far right) scroll to the "Creative" button, and then time my name.

Very much thanks for your consideration.

[dcstudio]

How do you know there are millions of pianists out there waiting for this news?  I don't understand what is newsworthy in your video.  It's OK to adjust things, roll chords, and play slightly ahead or behind the beat because Clara Schumann's students recorded it that way nearly 100 years ago?  Universities teach what they teach and it's up to us to then do with that what we will afterwards. There are no "laws" once you sell tickets and records...only the laws of economics apply. I do believe this is all about you, Louis, and why you are not the pianist YOU want to be.  To be honest I am not either, but I am happy with the pianist I have become. 

Sorry this sounds harsh...but let it go. Stop begging for money it's unbecoming.

[louispodesta]

Clive Brown, PhD and Neal Peres Da Costa, PhD, regularly travel the entire world giving performance lectures on this subject.  And, that includes recent lectures at Indiana University and the University of Beijing.  In January of 2015, Dr. Brown gave an interview to WQXR, the top classical radio station in America, wherein he stated that all classical music was being played "wrong."

In addition to Dr. Kenneth Hamilton, these men have authored three entire books on the validity and applied musicological importance of original performance.  The recently deceased Christopher Hogwood spent his entire adult life lecturing and performing on the subject.

No, Maam, it is not about me.   It is so, like every Fine Arts matriculate in the world who is mandated to study the original mechanics of their particular art form, musicians (and the general public) can enjoy the beauty of how this great music was originally composed, taught and performed.

Let it go?  What you and all the other brainwashed devotees of the fraudulent Urtext propaganda of the music conservatories don't understand is that my colleagues and I will never stop until the truth and the beauty of this music is recognized.

And, in a personal message to me, Dr. Brown assures me that with every new lecture, our message is being received and welcomed loud and clear!

[dcstudio]

Clive Brown, PhD and Neal Peres Da Costa, PhD, regularly travel the entire world giving performance lectures on this subject.  And, that includes recent lectures at Indiana University and the University of Beijing.  In January of 2015, Dr. Brown gave an interview to WQXR, the top classical radio station in America, wherein he stated that all classical music was being played "wrong."

In addition to Dr. Kenneth Hamilton, these men have authored three entire books on the validity and applied musicological importance of original performance.  The recently deceased Christopher Hogwood spent his entire adult life lecturing and performing on the subject.

No, Maam, it is not about me.   It is so, like every Fine Arts matriculate in the world who is mandated to study the original mechanics of their particular art form, musicians (and the general public) can enjoy the beauty of how this great music was originally composed, taught and performed.

Let it go?  What you and all the other brainwashed devotees of the fraudulent Urtext propaganda of the music conservatories don't understand is that my colleagues and I will never stop until the truth and the beauty of this music is recognized.

And, in a personal message to me, Dr. Brown assures me that with every new lecture, our message is being received and welcomed loud and clear!

Well if these people are already out there lecturing on this subject...again I ask you...what is newsworthy about your take on original performance practice?
What exactly are you saying that hasn't been said already?

[hardy_practice]

I don't get it anyway.  Original performance practice up to Hummel means curled fingers and still hand.  Pre-Bach - not much thumb.

[perfect_pitch]

Let it go?  What you and all the other brainwashed devotees of the fraudulent Urtext propaganda of the music conservatories don't understand is...

What I understand from that, is that you're a condescending twat. Bugger off!

[dogperson]

What I understand from that, is that you're a condescending twat. Bugger off!

What Louis doesn't understand:   you can't insult people on a forum and then expect they would contribute to your Fund Me account.....

[louispodesta]

Well if these people are already out there lecturing on this subject...again I ask you...what is newsworthy about your take on original performance practice?
What exactly are you saying that hasn't been said already?

First, "brainwashed" was overly harsh, and I apologize.

Next, when I state that most musicians and the general public have no knowledge of this subject:  what don't you understand?  Every student of the Fine Arts has to study Da Vinci, Michelangelo, Shakespeare, Rodin, Najiiksy, et al.

Not in the music schools of this world!

They would disqualify you as a piano major in a heartbeat and throw you out on your arse if you even dared to play in an original performance fashion.

When people like the late Earl Wild and Jorge Bolet state unequivocally state that this meticulous attention to the score "note perfect" (Urtext) playing was all effectuated after World War II, those are not my words.

And, when a world renowned musicologists says to me that no serious music history scholar in the world avows Urtext as factual, what am I supposed to say?  Further, I cite the following article written for Pianostreet:

https://www.pianostreet.com/blog/articles/italian-excellence-bringing-old-steinways-back-to-life-6715/

Dcstudio and the rest of the folks on Pianostreet all have it right, and the rest of the music history academic world has it wrong.

[keypeg]

Dcstudio and the rest of the folks on Pianostreet all have it right, and the rest of the music history academic world has it wrong.

This statement is confusing on several fronts.  What statement or vision in particular are you referring to, that you believe Dcstudio has right?  You then state that the rest of the folks on PS also have this view right - but the membership is a diverse group so I cannot imagine every single person here holding a single view.

[outin]

Louis, what you don't seem to get is this:
Your poor communication skills are not doing any favors to your cause. I see the need for the discussions and research on this matter and do even agree that something about older music has been lost in the culture of playing in the last few decades. But if I did not, reading your post would not urge me to look further into it. You make it sound like an obsession, use negative generalized statements or just don't really respond to people who challenge your claims. You are not open to real discussion and only answer criticism by repeating the same claims, dropping names or attacking the person. You claim to be a scientist, but you don't defend your arguments in a scientific matter here.

[dcstudio]

The thing is, Louis, I don't necessarily disagree with the overall concept I am just asking what is newsworthy? I have asked this question repeatedly since you first sent me the link....months and months ago. You have yet to answer me or even acknowledge that this is a valid inquiry. I have no idea why you refuse to answer so I must conclude that there is nothing "NEW" in your claim.

[louispodesta]

The thing is, Louis, I don't necessarily disagree with the overall concept I am just asking what is newsworthy? I have asked this question repeatedly since you first sent me the link....months and months ago. You have yet to answer me or even acknowledge that this is a valid inquiry. I have no idea why you refuse to answer so I must conclude that there is nothing "NEW" in your claim.

On point, on the other famous piano website, when I originally posted this three years ago, no one had the faintest idea what I was talking about.

Further, a fellow classmate of mine at North Texas ((1971) with a Masters Degree under your precious Jack Roberts (former roommate of same to boot) had no inkling as to original performance practice.  And, this is a 70 year old man who tried to get his Doctorate under the late Richard Cass.

Additionally, the very recently passed Charles Aschbrenner of Hope College (student of Nadia Boulanger and also Adele Marcus at Juilliard), had never even heard of original performance practice.  I actually gave him an email piano lesson on this in regards the Schubert A Flat major Impromptu.

So, you constantly saying it is not newsworthy has been relayed to me countless times, with absolutely no proof furnished with any journal article reference or book citation, none whatsoever.

Therefore, attacking the messenger is a waste of your and my time.  You have no proof other than your fruitless attempts to deny my and Dr.'s Brown and Peres Da Costa's predicate.

Why would we be doing this is everyone already knew about it?  And, once again, it is not a big or little deal.  It, historically, is THE DEAL!

[lostinidlewonder]

I'll keep my $5 and spend it on something that is more useful, maybe a feathery dream catcher lo0ol.

louispodesta's delusions of grandeur is getting bothersome, someone call his doctor!

[dcstudio]

No Louis, I did not deny nor attack... I asked you to explain what was newsworthy about YOUR video...not Dr. Brown.
So you are just the messenger... and there is nothing new you are simply repeating what others have said and you are doing it because you want to further their idea. Nobody you know had any clue about this so you have taken it upon yourself to educate all pianists...because they must not know either...Gotcha. Best of luck with that.  Did you take this same defensive stand with the BBC...is that why they declined to run your story?


With all due respect I am not the one asking for money here...the burden of proof is on you.

[hardy_practice]

Pardon my ignorance but is this about late Romantic arpeggiating chords and crazy rubatos?  That's pretty common knowledge and obviously just an original performance practice (and about as important as how flairs come into vogue from time to time) 

[dcstudio]

Pardon my ignorance but is this about late Romantic arpeggiating chords and crazy rubatos?  That's pretty common knowledge and obviously just an original performance practice (and about as important as how flairs come into vogue from time to time) 

Wow, I thought they only taught that at my university. Lol. Maybe if Louis would have spent a little more time there instead of dropping out after a couple of semesters this wouldn't be news to him either.  I remember being told it was "all the rage" before 20th Century style came on the scene.  It was just a phase....and one audiences don't appreciate too much now. 

[hardy_practice]

Someone needs to take him aside and say Louis, it's just an affectation.

[louispodesta]

Someone needs to take him aside and say Louis, it's just an affectation.

"Someone needs to take him aside and say Louis, it's just an affectation."

1) I graduated from UT Austin music school.

2) Yesterday, I spent an hour with my new Piano Concerto performance coach, and it went swimmingly well.  She is a successful matriculate student of Nelita True at the Eastman School of Music, along with additional time at Juilliard and UT Austin.

3)  She seemed most interested in my original performance predicate, which I explained at length.

4)  Accordingly, I will now suggest that you consider that this narrative has now been changed significantly.

5)  Quote your sources, and your opinions.  However, if you insist to having it both ways, I will most certainly challenge your reasoning as not legitimate.  Hey, you can say whatever you want to say!

All the best.

[themeandvariation]

Mr. Podesta,
This oil field seems dry. Perhaps it would be better to drill in another field - as nothing appears to be forthcoming.  And all that effort.  My.

perhaps an adjustment in approach may be in order.


all the best to you.

[louispodesta]

Mr. Podesta,
This oil field seems dry. Perhaps it would be better to drill in another field - as nothing appears to be forthcoming.  And all that effort.  My.

perhaps an adjustment in approach may be in order.


all the best to you.

Hey, I just got my first additional 5 dollars.  He is not a musician, and I don't even know his name.

Plus, I am now going to generate the crowd funding mechanism, which is local news coverage.

Every single Gofundme project you know of came to you through a news media feature.  Can you think of one that did not?

In that no Internet News Story has ever dove-tailed from U.S. Interstate Highway billboards into a viral news story video, mine will be the first.  And, if it works for me, then anyone with a project has a most probable same likelihood.

Thanks for your interest.

[hardy_practice]

Hey, don't spend it all in one place.

[louispodesta]

Hey, don't spend it all in one place.

Believe or not, unlike another very famous Crowdfunding Website, which I could never figure out how to use (no telephone, no fax, no email, and no chat) Gofundme electronically deposits a grand total of $4.32 the same day a contribution is made.

The other website is notorious for taking sometimes two weeks for you to get your money (F.Y.I.).

Now, I proceed tomorrow with my quest to get local news coverage regarding a news story about a historic news story.  As said before:  regardless of the crowd funding website, unless there is a news story driving the contributions, it just does not happen.  And, these websites do not tell anyone that.

Thanks for your comment.

[keypeg]

What is the purpose of the "Performance" board?

[louispodesta]

What is the purpose of the "Performance" board?

Performance:   I assume that with your consummate knowledge of the subject that the largest project ever imagined to promote "original performance practice," would qualify.

And, for the record, if no one further weighs in on my crowd funding project, tomorrow is another day and another subject;  that is absent any major development (and that does not mean another 5 dollars), I will of course let it pass.

[keypeg]

.

[dcstudio]

Performance:   I assume that with your consummate knowledge of the subject that the largest project ever imagined to promote "original performance practice," would qualify.

And, for the record, if no one further weighs in on my crowd funding project, tomorrow is another day and another subject;  that is absent any major development (and that does not mean another 5 dollars), I will of course let it pass.

Wow, that's letting it pass? You are so funny, Louis. I love your posts I really do.  Some days, when I am sad or depressed, I come here and  see one of your charming retorts...and it' lifts my spirits.  How will Louis respond today and who will he insult with his passive-aggressive responses to any and all inquiries about his project. 

This one to keypeg was one of your finest yet, my friend.

Did you see keypeg's post in the audition room? You should check it out she's quite a player.

Have a great day

[keypeg]

Answer to my question "What is the purpose of the Performance forum?" asked of the members.

Performance:   I assume that with your consummate knowledge of the subject that the largest project ever imagined to promote "original performance practice," would qualify....

My question was about this forum.  I looked for a description and could not find one.  I don't know if this is what you mean by the "subject".  If it is - If I had knowledge about it, I would not have asked.  Lack of knowledge is anything but consummate.
If by "subject" you mean "performance" - no, my knowledge is anything but consummate.  I am a student who began studies late in life.  I am interested in learning more, which is why I come to the forum called "performance".  But at this point it seemed prudent to check what the forum is actually about.

The rest of your sentence is incomprehensible to me.

[chrisbutch]

The therapy I'd recommend would be daily meditation on the meaning of solipsism.

[louispodesta]

Answer to my question "What is the purpose of the Performance forum?" asked of the members.My question was about this forum.  I looked for a description and could not find one.  I don't know if this is what you mean by the "subject".  If it is - If I had knowledge about it, I would not have asked.  Lack of knowledge is anything but consummate.
If by "subject" you mean "performance" - no, my knowledge is anything but consummate.  I am a student who began studies late in life.  I am interested in learning more, which is why I come to the forum called "performance".  But at this point it seemed prudent to check what the forum is actually about.

The rest of your sentence is incomprehensible to me.

Great answer.

Supposedly, all of a sudden Pollini declares that he has discovered "original performance practice." Would any one contest his predicate?  Hey, you are no Pollini (thank God, I do not play through the melody of my repertoire).

So, if the world (unbeknownst to those who have posted here) has no knowledge of this subject directly related to the original playing/peforming at that piano of the world's great piano compositions, then "any" dissemintation of that information is performance related.

Of course, that is my opinion (and also that of Drs. Clive Brown and Neal Peres Da Costa) to name just a few "applied" musicologists.

[dogperson]

Great answer.

Supposedly, all of a sudden Pollini declares that he has discovered "original performance practice." Would any one contest his predicate?  Hey, you are no Pollini (thank God, I do not play through the melody of my repertoire).

So, if the world (unbeknownst to those who have posted here) has no knowledge of this subject directly related to the original playing/peforming at that piano of the world's great piano compositions, then "any" dissemintation of that information is performance related.

Of course, that is my opinion (and also that of Drs. Clive Brown and Neal Peres Da Costa) to name just a few "applied" musicologists.

Louis, you agreed to stop spamming this forum with your 'breakthrough', but have not.  As part of this thread, other members of the forum have told you this is not new information.  You pontificated that it was new to the 'other piano forum members' when in fact, going back and reading your original post on the other forum, it was not news there either.   

To refresh your memory that this is not an original find by you; but only discovered by you after other musicians had been previously aware of the romantic period practice, I have copied the link. 

https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2042380/1.html 

It really is time for you to find other outlets for this other than this forum. 

[keypeg]

Great answer....

This was in response to my repeated question.   A question is not an answer, so it can't be a great answer or even a bad answer.  You are responding to my question - which was not necessarily addressed to you - by seemingly carrying on an argument or debate which is not happening.

I asked what the purpose of this Performance forum is.

You are discussing something totally different.

[perfect_pitch]

In that no Internet News Story has ever dove-tailed from U.S. Interstate Highway billboards into a viral news story video, mine will be the first.  And, if it works for me, then anyone with a project has a most probable same likelihood.

It's been almost 4 years since you started this nonsense... try preaching it somewhere else.

[louispodesta]

Louis, you agreed to stop spamming this forum with your 'breakthrough', but have not.  As part of this thread, other members of the forum have told you this is not new information.  You pontificated that it was new to the 'other piano forum members' when in fact, going back and reading your original post on the other forum, it was not news there either.   

To refresh your memory that this is not an original find by you; but only discovered by you after other musicians had been previously aware of the romantic period practice, I have copied the link. 

https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2042380/1.html 

It really is time for you to find other outlets for this other than this forum. 

Then, why are Dr. Clive Brown and then Dr. Neal Peres Da Costa travelling the world to disseminate this information.  And, then why are they at the same time personally encouraging me every step of the way by email.

So, in the interim, I will not stop until (on this side of the Pond) that America knows the true beauty of original performance practice, specific to the Piano, and from there on the entire Classical Music genre.

[wwalrus]

How can people get to be this delusional? He's so far gone. It's fascinating.

[keypeg]

.

[keypeg]

.

[hardy_practice]

-

[louispodesta]

My reason for not posting (as stated: unless I had some new development) I have been waiting for a response regarding my Gofundme page, and today, albeit short, it came.

Parenthetically just yesterday, I reached out to my long established reporter contact at NPR, and of course nothing came.  My message to him was simple:  no news story, no successful Gofundme page.

So, here is my unsolicited email from Gofundme:

["Hi Louis,

"It's been a little while since your last update on "Historic Piano News Story," and I think your supporters would love to hear from you.

 Updates are a great way to let your supporters know how their donations have been used to make a difference and thank them for their support.

If you are still raising money, consider asking your supporters to share your GoFundMe or make an additional donation."]

Like I said:  if you don't pony up your own money, or that of your family and friends OR you don't get major news coverage, it just does not happen.

There is your update.

[tenk]

And, then why are they at the same time personally encouraging me every step of the way by email.

In a word: pity.

[dogperson]

In a word: pity.

   

In a word, it is not a 'personal encouragement' but a standard communication sent out to all who have not been  collecting $$$ to add to the Go Fund Me 5% retainage.

[keypeg]

I asked a while back what the purpose of the "performance" section was, and I got a strange response that did not answer my question, but talked about something entirely different.  The reason I asked is because I wanted to check my perception; that it is to discuss some aspect of performance.  But here the discussion went toward the fact that the OP had had a lesson, and about someone having paid $5.00.  When an aspect of performance itself was discussed, it seemed brushed off.  So I wasn't sure anymore.

Secondly, the title "Original Performance Practice" makes me think that the discussion will be about original performance practice, information on it, ideas, and so on.  Since I'm a learner, I was looking forward to that.  So it was disappointing to just read about billboards and money mostly.  I don't think that this thread is about performance, or about original performance practice.

[louispodesta]

Okay, in that you (friend) are the genuine article, please post all of your performance additional posts totally absent and/or miniscule in nature.

Over that last few weeks, those posts are either absent, and or miniscule in nature.  I keep track of your "performance" posts.

[cuberdrift]

What is all this "Loispodesta" controversy?  

Yet another notorious eccentric along the likes of Richard Kastle or Cory Hall (and also as I observe, "faulty_damper" and "thierry")?